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On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players  . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz.
How about this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/9299_Bisu_vs_ZerO/vod Or do you count that as sick play from the zerg? I'm sure there are like 10 other games just like that one.
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On November 17 2008 20:49 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz. How about this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/9299_Bisu_vs_ZerO/vod Or do you count that as sick play from the zerg? I'm sure there are like 10 other games just like that one.
don't start posting games where Bisu played bad. He was and is the best PvZ ever, he dethroned a bonjwa zerg. No protoss can say this about himself.
dropping few games, dropping few stupid games, well, it happens
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On November 17 2008 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2008 20:49 Fwmeh wrote:On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz. How about this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/9299_Bisu_vs_ZerO/vod Or do you count that as sick play from the zerg? I'm sure there are like 10 other games just like that one. don't start posting games where Bisu played bad. He was and is the best PvZ ever, he dethroned a bonjwa zerg. No protoss can say these about himself. dropping few games, dropping few stupid games, well, it happens
The argument was that " In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad." That is what I disagreed with, not that Bizu has the best PvZ in the world. And since there has only been one bonjwa zerg, well...
I really think that a persons strength is a matchup should be judged more from his best plays than from his consistency. That is why I hold GGPlay's ZvT in very high regard, even though he is barely over 50% in the MU. And I think that Stork's PvZ has some structural weakness in it, mainly his ingame adaption, which is preventing him from elevating it to S-class, even though he has good stats, and has taken games from all the best zergs.
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On November 17 2008 22:57 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2008 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote:On November 17 2008 20:49 Fwmeh wrote:On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz. How about this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/9299_Bisu_vs_ZerO/vod Or do you count that as sick play from the zerg? I'm sure there are like 10 other games just like that one. don't start posting games where Bisu played bad. He was and is the best PvZ ever, he dethroned a bonjwa zerg. No protoss can say these about himself. dropping few games, dropping few stupid games, well, it happens The argument was that " In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad." That is what I disagreed with, not that Bizu has the best PvZ in the world. And since there has only been one bonjwa zerg, well... I really think that a persons strength is a matchup should be judged more from his best plays than from his consistency. That is why I hold GGPlay's ZvT in very high regard, even though he is barely over 50% in the MU. And I think that Stork's PvZ has some structural weakness in it, mainly his ingame adaption, which is preventing him from elevating it to S-class, even though he has good stats, and has taken games from all the best zergs. July was a Bonjwa so..wtf..
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Most people say otherwise.
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United States10774 Posts
July is not a bonjwa. Bonjwas are Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov, and sAviOr
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great powerrank
first time i agreed with everything
and its true
july was not a bonjwa
he was very good, he stopped iloveoov but he never really reached the point of dominance in which everyone was scared to face him like oov or savior or even flash/jaedong
although he did come back to win the golden mouse which was awesome to watch
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On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot .
nice post  , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! 
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United States10774 Posts
On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats!
What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be...
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Stork's PvZ is about to be tested tonight (results will not be conclusive).
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On November 18 2008 16:30 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Stork's PvZ is about to be tested tonight (results will not be conclusive).
eh, even if he wins antifans and other fans will argue calm is "Inconsistent" (despite the fact he isn't)
edit: Calm, Not Clam
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Valhalla18444 Posts
calm goes 3hatch ling every other game
stork still does not have the game sense necessary to stuff dumb shit like that down the zerg's throat
there are still holes in his PvZ despite how consistantly he wins in the matchup
however, he hasn't had to play a zerg in a bo5 in a long time, and its not like a zerg can go 3hatch ling every game in a bo5 and expect to beat him. he's not stupid, after all
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 18 2008 18:21 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2008 16:30 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Stork's PvZ is about to be tested tonight (results will not be conclusive). eh, even if he wins antifans and other fans will argue calm is "Inconsistent" (despite the fact he isn't) edit: Calm, Not Clam
maybe i'll change the TLPD entry and see how long it takes someone to notice
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Hi, Fakesteve, ahvent see you for a week at least or more
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On November 18 2008 15:01 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be...
it was a joke...remember what happened to Jared ?
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THE REVOLUTION!!!
friggin bisu build man.... bisu build...
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United States10774 Posts
On November 19 2008 06:20 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2008 15:01 OneOther wrote:On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be... it was a joke...remember what happened to Jared ?
You do know I raped my opponent in the showmatch, right?
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On November 19 2008 08:44 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2008 06:20 Jaeden wrote:On November 18 2008 15:01 OneOther wrote:On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be... it was a joke...remember what happened to Jared ? You do know I raped my opponent in the showmatch, right?
`course, that`s why i congratulate you for it! I was just jokin` about the fact that IF u had lost, u wouldn`t be on the staff anymore ... ohh nevermind
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On November 19 2008 08:44 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2008 06:20 Jaeden wrote:On November 18 2008 15:01 OneOther wrote:On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be... it was a joke...remember what happened to Jared ? You do know I raped my opponent in the showmatch, right?
I just played deus_073, that game was maybe my toughest victory untill now, i'm really proud i could beat him, so i can appreciate even more that Oneother beat him quite convincingly
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United States10774 Posts
On November 19 2008 21:44 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2008 08:44 OneOther wrote:On November 19 2008 06:20 Jaeden wrote:On November 18 2008 15:01 OneOther wrote:On November 18 2008 14:23 Jaeden wrote:On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . nice post , oh and yeah, U are still on the staff, OneOther, congrats! What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be... it was a joke...remember what happened to Jared ? You do know I raped my opponent in the showmatch, right? I just played deus_073, that game was my toughest victory untill now, i'm really proud i could beat him, so i can appreciate even more that Oneother beat him quite convincingly
You mean raped him for 30 minutes except the 4 minutes I needed to recover after the terrible attack? Thanks Geo.Rion hahaha
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EPT
