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Power Rank 11/10/2008 - Page 13

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-16 09:31:15
November 16 2008 09:30 GMT
#241
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.

"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
November 16 2008 09:37 GMT
#242
Look, I didn't post those stats to say anything new. And there is a point in looking at them - my point is that Stork has always been better and more consistent at PvT than Bisu. Bisu has improved his PvT, but Stork is still superior in PvP and PvT, by a pretty big margin in PvT.
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-16 10:01:24
November 16 2008 09:59 GMT
#243
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).
Meh
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
November 16 2008 10:03 GMT
#244
Enough with Bisu the PvT god already. He beats an always-weak-in-tvp FBH and a decent Hwasin, who he always beats and has a mental edge over and that's it. It's just like Best beating an always-weak-in-zvp Luxury and suddenly he's the favorite against July, LOL. Give it up.

Bisu currently doesn't qualify for #1 because the #1 has already decisively beaten him, and he's not gonna play against and defeat Stork in PvP any time soon.
Marines > everything
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
November 16 2008 10:48 GMT
#245
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).

The main reason why I think Bisu's PvZ >> Stork's PvZ, is because Stork really hasn't been tested at all in that MU recently, unless you count WCG. Its not really the same thing with Bisu's PvT, which he has been tested in recently. To be honest, I haven't watched Stork's recent PvZs, but I don't think you can say Stork's 2-1 win over Orion in GOM puts Stork's PvZ on the same level as Bisu's 3-0 of FBH and 2-0 of Hwasin.

And just for the record, I agree that Stork should stay #1 with Bisu at #2, provided they keep playing how they both have been playing. There isn't any reason for Stork to fall on the ranks if he hasn't played as much. He is the best player in the world right now. I just think people are trying to push him to another level, as if Stork is somehow so incompariable to any other player, that Stork is somehow an invincible God, while the players who have also been playing excellently recently don't measure up at all.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
November 16 2008 11:32 GMT
#246
Are you seriously counting Hwasin and FBH as "tested" series? The only guy who has been even more of a Protoss' bitch than FBH has been Hwasin. The guy just rolls over when facing protosses.
Meh
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-16 15:57:59
November 16 2008 15:57 GMT
#247
Lecaf's players aren`t doin` very well lately
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
November 16 2008 17:00 GMT
#248
On November 16 2008 20:32 baubo wrote:
Are you seriously counting Hwasin and FBH as "tested" series? The only guy who has been even more of a Protoss' bitch than FBH has been Hwasin. The guy just rolls over when facing protosses.


I don't know they are pretty close . I think FBH sucks more because he gets humiliated more :D .
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-16 17:45:22
November 16 2008 17:02 GMT
#249
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).


Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke .

On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much .

All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players .

The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot .
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
November 16 2008 20:13 GMT
#250
Oneother just won his game
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
TarsTarkas
Profile Joined April 2007
United States169 Posts
November 16 2008 22:46 GMT
#251
Chill for PR # 1

OneOther, you will have to settle for a lower spot.
Those who think they know everything, are very annoying to those of us who do. - Mark Twain
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
November 16 2008 22:54 GMT
#252
I am happy with Bisu's place I fucked up my second attack soooo badly
TarsTarkas
Profile Joined April 2007
United States169 Posts
November 16 2008 23:28 GMT
#253
yeah, you pretty much did (if I remember correctly, the Arbiter didn't have enough energy? I might be thinking of the wrong attack though)

Still, you won!! No fail icon! :D

(and would beat the crap out of my ZvP, which is terrible)
Those who think they know everything, are very annoying to those of us who do. - Mark Twain
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
November 16 2008 23:41 GMT
#254
yeah i attacked when my arbiter had 93 energy and forgot to drop my templars -_-
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
November 17 2008 04:08 GMT
#255
Jaedong's dropping to around 8th next month, I'm guessing.
Jaedong
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
November 17 2008 06:44 GMT
#256
On November 17 2008 13:08 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong's dropping to around 8th next month, I'm guessing.

Any reasoning behind this? He's 4-1 this month and if he wins his Classic games while keeping up a solid record in PL, why should he drop that far? If he does those things, I could see JangBi passing him, but no one else really. Maybe there's an argument for Flash to pass him, but that's it. The farthest I could possibly see him falling is to 6th, barring anything unfortunate happening against Tempest.
Moderator
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 07:00:07
November 17 2008 06:59 GMT
#257
On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).


Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke .

On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much .

All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players .

The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot .


I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
November 17 2008 07:19 GMT
#258
On November 17 2008 15:44 []p4NDemik[] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2008 13:08 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong's dropping to around 8th next month, I'm guessing.

Any reasoning behind this? He's 4-1 this month and if he wins his Classic games while keeping up a solid record in PL, why should he drop that far? If he does those things, I could see JangBi passing him, but no one else really. Maybe there's an argument for Flash to pass him, but that's it. The farthest I could possibly see him falling is to 6th, barring anything unfortunate happening against Tempest.


Nothing against Jaedong, it's just that a lot of people (looking at the protosses) have been performing more solidly than he has been. I'm a Jaedong fanboy, and your post gives me renewed hope. I guess there can be the argument that Flash took FOREVER to drop after he started playing crappily.
Jaedong
traced
Profile Joined October 2007
1739 Posts
November 17 2008 07:32 GMT
#259
On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).


Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke .

On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much .

All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players .

The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot .


I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz.

only time i ever saw bisu outplayed was vs jaedong on blue storm and jaedong won by the slimmest of margins. it was a sick game, bisu was pretty soundly ahead until jaedong doom dropped with his whole army right as bisu moved out, forcing bisu back so jaedong could pump drones and make up economy.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
November 17 2008 07:33 GMT
#260
On November 17 2008 16:32 traced wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote:
On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote:
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote:
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote:
There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another.

Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.



I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it.

I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has.

If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history).


Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke .

On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much .

All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players .

The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot .


I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz.

only time i ever saw bisu outplayed was vs jaedong on blue storm and jaedong won by the slimmest of margins. it was a sick game, bisu was pretty soundly ahead until jaedong doom dropped with his whole army right as bisu moved out, forcing bisu back so jaedong could pump drones and make up economy.


He also got pretty badly outplayed in the group stages of the Arena MSL in both the First Set and Final Set vs Jaedong. But that was during his "recession" and Jaedong's ZvP tear.
Jaedong
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