EPTPower Rank 11/10/2008 - Page 16
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1739 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On November 22 2008 20:07 disciple wrote: stork did no major mistake this month to drop out the top spot in the PR, imo he should keep it till the end of the year.. at least agree | ||
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
On November 22 2008 20:07 disciple wrote: stork did no major mistake this month to drop out the top spot in the PR, imo he should keep it till the end of the year.. at least Stork winning a gold deserves a full year of #1 power rank tbh  | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
/agree | ||
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On November 22 2008 20:00 Polar_Bear wrote: I think there's no doubt that Bisu should be #1 in dec. + Show Spoiler + PvP was considered to be his "weak" mu... look what he did to Jangbi this morning. Bisu was kind of unlucky in the first game, I still think it could have been 3-0 And Bisu is a bonjwa imo. + Show Spoiler + 3 MSL titles, another MSL final, two special league titles, 3rd spot in OSL, sky proleague title in 2007, most successful protoss of all time, best PvZ of all time, former Kespa #1 several times; probably 2nd most innovative player of all time...(well not everyone will agree with that) Last time I checked Bisu lost to Stork in the OSL. + Bisu/Jangbi finals isnt the finals for deciding no1 PvP, heck not even no2. This is the battle for no3 best PvPer currently. Stork has done nothing to drop in PR, and Bisu has yet to prove that he is better than Stork right now. | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
look at bisus last 20 games i mean cmon he's on fire. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
Stork beat Sunny. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On November 23 2008 02:18 Dazed_Spy wrote: Stork playing well two months ago and winning osl doesn't make him deserved of holding the spot for months on end. Its disgusting that the PR writer probably thinks it should though. Bisu has shown extremely good play this month. Stork beat Sunny. I think he should keep it for 1 more month. We haven't seen how Bisu will do after his win, now/\. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On November 23 2008 02:24 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yeah and we have seen what Stork did after his osl win; he beat sunny.I think he should keep it for 1 more month. We haven't seen how Bisu will do after his win, now/\. Hold the fuckin champagne. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On November 22 2008 20:03 OneOther wrote: are you kidding me? jangbi was definitely the unlucky one in this series. i give credit to bisu for playing amazingly, but come on...give me a break. game 1 was purely a dumb mistake that bisu made, whereas game 3 is a whole another story. everything possible went wrong for jangbi in that game. game 4, bisu gambled again and it paid off. bisu also took a build order risk in game 2 and it paid off as well. essentially, whatever risk bisu decided to take in every game worked out perfectly for him. which is pretty rare. Kwark made a really great points about Bisu's gambles in the MSL thread. "There are always gambles. A player who plays completely safely and counters all the cheesey things his opponent could be doing will lose to a straight up player every time because they've wasted so much money being safe. It's not practical to play safely because that is exploited simply by them not cheesing. Whatever you do is a risk because there will be a something they can do back to gain advantage. Players make a series of small gambles which are educated guesses based upon the metagame. Bisu took a risk by going straight to core on Destination but the metagame made him believe the gains outweighed the risks and he got a solid build order advantage." Honestly, its a shame that you won't even consider Bisu for number 1 because of your obvious Stork bias. Bisu beat the number 3 power rank and the number 5 power rank in back to back weekends. These were convincing 3-1 victories over tough opponents where Bisu was in control the whole time. Free and Jangbi had been on fire before the ran into Bisu. Jangbi had only lost 1 game the entire MSL before this and Free had defeated the supposedly invincible Jaedong and made Nada look like a complete noob. Now consider how Bisu defeated them both rather easily. Meanwhile, Stork has the arguement he has the OSL title and was number 1 last month so I can't move him down. Stork really hasn't been playing that great for the past month. Since he defeated ForGG and Best in 1 weekend on the 26th of October lets look at his results. He defeats Orion 2-1 in GOM thats good, at least he advanced He loses 2-3 to Kal in MSL, ok he was probably practicing for OSL so this isnt too bad. He beats Fantasy 3-2 to win his OSL. He was up 2-0 and lost the next 2, but won the fifth set as we all know and did not choke it away, this is a great result for him, even though he was heavily favored. He goes 1-2 in proleague since beating Sunny (wow) and losing in unimpressive fashion to Calm and Kal. So since 10-26 this gives Stork a record of 8 wins and 8 losses or a 50 percent win percentage. I'm sure you will throw out a good rebuttle to this, but this is simply not number 1 power rank material when you have a player of Bisu's caliber doing everything right this month. Bisu is 58 points ahead of Stork in ELO, not that this matters for much, but the large difference should show everyone how much hotter Bisu is right now. Stork may be slightly better mechanically and have slightly better build orders, but I will take Bisu any day. This is because of Bisu's game sense and because he is a CHAMPION. Even after losing game one to Jangbi, a lot of people still knew, some how, some way Bisu will pull through. Bisu's game sense, scouting, and metagame in a series are all so good. On the teamliquid podcast a month Hot_Bid talked how the best of 5 series over one day shows who the best players are. Take a guess at what Bisu's record in the bo5 is? Bisu is now 11-3. (Yes I know all this doesn't have much to do with this months power rank, but you get the point.) We already saw what happened when they fought for the championship, Bisu made the moves he needed to win and Stork was left just making excuses after the game. I don't think it would be much different now in the big game pressure situation. Oh yeah, and to compare Bisu's recent record to Stork's 8-8 in his last 16, Bisu is 19-4 in his last 23. (Losing only to Free twice, Jangbi once, and Calm once) Your main arguement is there is no reason to move Stork down right now, but I think a lot of other people agree with me when I say there are a lot of damn good reasons to move Bisu up the way he has been performing the past two months. | ||
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theonemephisto
United States409 Posts
But on the next PR, I'd say that you at least have to give serious consideration to putting Bisu over Stork. Stork hasn't done anything since the OSL, while Bisu has been owning. I wouldn't say that Bisu should definitely be over Stork, but I do think it's a fairly close call. It's basically back to the old debate about how to take into account last month's accomplishments. But Bisu really is on fire. Just keep in mind that the PR isn't about someone "deserving" a certain rank or anything, it's about ranking players in the context of the players around them. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On November 23 2008 04:11 theonemephisto wrote: I'd have to argue that Bisu "gambling" was pure skill and brilliance. Bisu has a better understanding of what goes through the other person's head than almost anyone. Even if he isn't the best mechanical player, he probably is one of the best Bo5 players currently because he doesn't play each game, he plays the other player over the series. Jangbi had no chance in a Bo5, especially in a match-up that heavily rewards playing the metagame. But on the next PR, I'd say that you at least have to give serious consideration to putting Bisu over Stork. Stork hasn't done anything since the OSL, while Bisu has been owning. I wouldn't say that Bisu should definitely be over Stork, but I do think it's a fairly close call. It's basically back to the old debate about how to take into account last month's accomplishments. But Bisu really is on fire. Just keep in mind that the PR isn't about someone "deserving" a certain rank or anything, it's about ranking players in the context of the players around them. Better understanding my ass he has . Even if he has Stork still beats him and Bisu still loses to terran players that are above the term "average" - yes Hwasin and FBH suck . I don't know what you saw brilliant in that series he had terrible control got lucky with the cheese and Bo win . Stork has faced top level competition all around and has been dominating fairly long . Bisu did was beat TvP disasters FBH and Hwasin a good series vs Free and not that bad vs JangBI . Maybe this month at performance he did better because he was still in the MSL because Stork was focusing an OSL finals WCG PL example , he didn't make MSL Ro8 . But overall Stork is more dominant then Bisu .Since WCG korea Stork has shown good play and domination Bisu should prove more then just winning MSL because Stork too won OSL and beat him while at it . At least the next month Stork should be #1 . Lets see how they do in Gom classic to see who is better althought i don't know if both will take it seriously . | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 23 2008 04:11 theonemephisto wrote: I'd have to argue that Bisu "gambling" was pure skill and brilliance. Bisu has a better understanding of what goes through the other person's head than almost anyone. Even if he isn't the best mechanical player, he probably is one of the best Bo5 players currently because he doesn't play each game, he plays the other player over the series. Jangbi had no chance in a Bo5, especially in a match-up that heavily rewards playing the metagame. But on the next PR, I'd say that you at least have to give serious consideration to putting Bisu over Stork. Stork hasn't done anything since the OSL, while Bisu has been owning. I wouldn't say that Bisu should definitely be over Stork, but I do think it's a fairly close call. It's basically back to the old debate about how to take into account last month's accomplishments. But Bisu really is on fire. Just keep in mind that the PR isn't about someone "deserving" a certain rank or anything, it's about ranking players in the context of the players around them. no, it's gambling and it's as simple as that. of course they are calculated risks, but they all worked out perfectly for them. that's pretty rare in PvP. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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disciple
9071 Posts
On November 23 2008 04:57 raga4ka wrote: Better understanding my ass he has .Even if he has Stork still beats him and Bisu still loses to terran players that are above the term "average" - yes Hwasin and FBH suck . Terran players most likely to run over Bisu - Flash , Mind Leta Fantasy (thought he is a newb ) , ForGG . I don't know what you saw brilliant in that series he had terrible control got lucky with the cheese and Bo win . Stork has faced top level competition all around and has been dominating fairly long all that Bisu did was beat TvP disasters FBH and Hwasin a good series vs Free and not that bad vs JangBI . Just spare all the lines and say you dont like Bisu. Jee... whatever KTY is doing its always not enough for ppl right you. None of Bisu's msl titles was easy to get, he was tested in all MU, beating most of the hot guys out there. His last triumph made no difference, just take a look at jangbi's record this season, free's recent accomplishments even FBH TvP stats from the last couple of months. Winning tournaments doesnt mean beating S class players all the way, and thats the hole point, to endure and to survive the competition. JangBi and free were worthy opponents for the Revolutionist, if flash forGG Leta and fantasy didnt made it to the finals maybe they are not that good actually | ||
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
Stork's final was his best MU, PvT. Bisu's final was not his best MU, which is PvZ. Stork already received 1 month of PR as #1. People say he lost to Kal in the MSL because he was busy preparing for the OSL Finals. Ok, thats a legitimate reason. But what about his loss verse Kal AFTER the finals? There's no valid reason for that | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On November 23 2008 05:26 disciple wrote: Just spare all the lines and say you dont like Bisu. Jee... whatever KTY is doing its always not enough for ppl right you. None of Bisu's msl titles was easy to get, he was tested in all MU, beating most of the hot guys out there. His last triumph made no difference, just take a look at jangbi's record this season, free's recent accomplishments even FBH TvP stats from the last couple of months. Winning tournaments doesnt mean beating S class players all the way, and thats the hole point, to endure and to survive the competition. JangBi and free were worthy opponents for the Revolutionist, if flash forGG Leta and fantasy didnt made it to the finals maybe they are not that good actually I'm not saying he is a bad player i'm saying that Stork is better then him right now. Because i don't think that Bisu deserves to be over Stork . Daniel Lee pointed it out in one of their commentarys with Artosis that Bisu is selfish because he focuses an a league and doesn't care much about PL while at it . When Bisu was in MSL together with Stork . Stork was the backbone of the Samsung team in PL with one of the best records in PL.He was in the OSL final , represented Korea in WCG and lost to Kal in an impresive series 3-2 . At that time Bisu was barely used in PL when he was more needed to SKT , Stork could have sit out in PL and his team would still do decent , but he played he put samsung in the second spot he represented korea in WCG and he showed a decent series vs Kal . Where was Bisu at that time preparing for the very difficult series vs PvT disaster FBH .... At that time i would have had Free too above Bisu , because i give more credit to hard working people then someone who is over hyped . All i'm saying is that Bisu can't keep up with Stork's consistence .... Where the fuck was Bisu when Stork was everywhere and dominating ?? ? Don't talk about endurance in a single league , but look at all of the Pro scene . Even if Stork droped a few games he can do better then Bisu in multiple occasions and thus why deserves to be higher . Lets see how they do in GOM and PL before saying something as stupid as Bisu deserves to be higher then Stork based on nothing that Stork hasn't done already in the past few days . They aren't even equall in strength , everyone who is not a Bisu sucker or Stork hater can see that Stork is stronger all together . I don't really like neither Stork or BIsu . They both are boring , but at least Stork impresses me with consistance and the control he shows over the games he dominates . Free has been the best to watch , because he was winning PL almost by himself and his games are more exciting to watch . If someone can point out what did Bisu did more or better then Stork recently to deserve to be # 1 , because i have no idea . | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On November 23 2008 05:15 OneOther wrote: How many times does it have to be said that the argement is not why Stork should move down but why Bisu should move up? Bisu has looked really really good, Stork has not looked like anything. He's played nothing. A case to be made that hes declined? Obviously not. A case to be made however that Bisu played extremely impressively, equally if not surpieror to what Stork did in incruit- and stork at the moment, when hes giving results is giving us the "fabulous" results of 2-1 orion. He hasn't declined, but it just cant be compared favorably to Bisu. i see a legitimate case for putting bisu over stork, but as of right now, i think most of us can agree stork should stay at #1. losing two pl games isn't enough to negate what he was able to do in OSL and other pl games. | ||
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