EPTIf you’re coming up with new definitions of famines that don’t involve starvation then I can reasonably assume that you’re manufacturing complaints as part of some agenda that doesn’t much care whether anyone is starving.
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 346
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KwarK
United States41383 Posts
If you’re coming up with new definitions of famines that don’t involve starvation then I can reasonably assume that you’re manufacturing complaints as part of some agenda that doesn’t much care whether anyone is starving. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2550 Posts
On October 07 2024 15:45 KwarK wrote: Don’t know why you’re waiting for it. You were there when you wrote it. Except I didn't. You're welcome to prove otherwise by quoting the relevant words; I've been waiting for you to do so for a few weeks now. On October 07 2024 15:45 KwarK wrote:A famine is when people are dying from not having enough food to feed the population. When the population is growing rapidly there is no food constraint. The population of Yemen is growing. Does that mean there's no famine in Yemen? On October 07 2024 15:45 KwarK wrote:But let’s say that we accept your premise, that famines somehow lead to population growth due to ????. That’d make Israel causing a famine in Gaza the very furthest thing from genocide due to all the expected additional Palestinians who would be born in the famine boom. That’s not the argument I’m making, that’s the implication of the argument you’re making. Are you not tired of making the same asinine strawmen arguments? Famines don't lead to population growth, that was never my premise and you know this. If you want to have a honest conversation, try harder, or just stick to your shitty idiotic one liners if you don't want to have a real conversation. On October 07 2024 15:45 KwarK wrote:Additionally there are a number of famines around the world right now and you seem to be laser focused on this one where the people have enough food. It’s almost as if your interest in famines is not so much about whether people are starving but rather whether you can blame Jews for it. I'm not sure what would discussion of the famine in Madagascar or Yemen bring to a thread about conflict in Palestine. If you actually read my posts, you'll notice that never did I blame Jews for anything, either. The state of Israel is not 'Jews,' so again, fuck off with the strawmen and 'do better.' | ||
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KT_Elwood
474 Posts
Oct 7th 2023 opened a can of worms that was closed in 2006. It's now the time of "eye for an eye" again. And people like who ever lead the iranian proxies today, and will be vaporized by a small GBU tomorrow and the Netanyahu Administration seek the "once and for all" ending. Too bad: Historicly those ideas never worked. People who think that some other government or organisation can stop what was set in motion one year ago.. suffers from megalomania and self-importance. No Biden, No Guterres, Von Der Leyhen (corrupt head of the EU) wield closely enough influence to stop the war. And it's a war. Iran tries a slow cook approach to genocide by proxy.. and western tankies all over the world agree that it's necessary to kill all jews again.. because..they otherwise.. would.. defend their right to live.. wait what? Okay the smart screechy interlectual tankies in universities will make up some elaborate reason. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2550 Posts
On October 07 2024 17:51 KT_Elwood wrote: NZZ (Zurich Newspaper, conservative, right wing liberal .. for switzerland .. which is wildly different from the US) had a good editorial about the current situation. Oct 7th 2023 opened a can of worms that was closed in 2006. It's now the time of "eye for an eye" again. And people like who ever lead the iranian proxies today, and will be vaporized by a small GBU tomorrow and the Netanyahu Administration seek the "once and for all" ending. Too bad: Historicly those ideas never worked. People who think that some other government or organisation can stop what was set in motion one year ago.. suffers from megalomania and self-importance. No Biden, No Guterres, Von Der Leyhen (corrupt head of the EU) wield closely enough influence to stop the war. And it's a war. Iran tries a slow cook approach to genocide by proxy.. and western tankies all over the world agree that it's necessary to kill all jews again.. because..they otherwise.. would.. defend their right to live.. wait what? Okay the smart screechy interlectual tankies in universities will make up some elaborate reason. What does occupation and colonization of West Bank have to do with the Jews' right to live? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11670 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria3158 Posts
On October 07 2024 15:36 RvB wrote: There were two IPC reports on this. The latest conclusions were quite clear: There's no famine occurring, a very high level of food insecurity, and a high risk famine. www.un.org It's been discussed plenty before. There are many starving people in Gaza due to the war. There is no famine. These are not contradictory statements. | ||
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KT_Elwood
474 Posts
On October 07 2024 18:04 Salazarz wrote: What does occupation and colonization of West Bank have to do with the Jews' right to live? Netanyahu was given the kickoff to a total war, and one year ago hamas has fumbled all non israeli passport's holders chances on keeping land anywhere in israel. A two state solution is totally off the table. If removing palestinians from israel is increasing security for israel, than it's now also just another part of the war (to israeli government). Again.. conflict is simplified to the max. and as long as israel is winning.. netanyahu will continue. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3158 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/9007beaf81b5a7288948059f4adb4a5b.png) https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-one-year-of-israels-genocide-in-gaza-by-the-numbers There's also the issue of rampant disease. 26 percent are affected. It affects hundreds of thousands of people in Gaza. Roughly a million have acute respiratory infections. And in the long run all of these factors will cost even more people their lives. Then there's the fact that 60 prisoners have died in Israeli captivity since October 7. Many more have been raped and tortured, starved and denied medication, and otherwise mistreated. And that's just a glimpse into the very very long list of crimes committed by Israel and the damage this war has done to Palestinians. These people are living through a nightmare while ya'll sit here with your donut and coffee in hand denying obvious and proven reality. Absolutely disgusting and shameful. Go ahead ya'll, deny reality. Do it. I swear this thread is infested with deniers and pro-Israel propagandists. It's never been this bad before. I guess that's what we get when proven habitual liars are allowed to stick around instead of getting banned for spreading propaganda and misinformation, even when they're fresh users with only a handful of posts. This thread is going to absolute shit very rapidly. It's incredible that there are still the same people left who have the will to fight back against this attack. I applaud every person here who's not given up the fight for good information. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11670 Posts
On October 07 2024 19:01 KT_Elwood wrote: Netanyahu was given the kickoff to a total war, and one year ago hamas has fumbled all non israeli passport's holders chances on keeping land anywhere in israel. A two state solution is totally off the table. If removing palestinians from israel is increasing security for israel, than it's now also just another part of the war (to israeli government). Again.. conflict is simplified to the max. and as long as israel is winning.. netanyahu will continue. So in other words, the left was correct about what the Netanyahu administration aims to do: remove Palestinians, and claim it's about security concerns. Thanks. There are still problems in this editorial if it's been paraphrased correctly here, the vision that a can of worms opened in 2023 and it was closed in 2006 requires that nothing noteworthy happened between 2006 and 2023, which means that Israel killing Palestinians (roughly 7000 of them between 2008 and 2023, I'm finding) is not noteworthy. But this is expected; if liberal newspapers start admitting that Israel wants to remove Palestinians it's a step in the direction of clarity, I'll take it. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2550 Posts
On October 07 2024 19:01 KT_Elwood wrote: Netanyahu was given the kickoff to a total war, and one year ago hamas has fumbled all non israeli passport's holders chances on keeping land anywhere in israel. A two state solution is totally off the table. If removing palestinians from israel is increasing security for israel, than it's now also just another part of the war (to israeli government). Again.. conflict is simplified to the max. and as long as israel is winning.. netanyahu will continue. How does this post address my question? Are you saying that West Bank is part of Israel? | ||
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Billyboy
175 Posts
On October 07 2024 03:43 Acrofales wrote: The relationship between Hezbollah and Iran might be similar to Russia and Wagner, but that was obviously not what maybenexttime was talking about, as that's the reverse relationship and exactly what I described in my earlier post. But regardless (and also regardless of the differences between Hezbollah and Wagner that you've been discussing with Nebu), Hamas' relationship with Iran is definitely different. Iran was caught by surprise on October 7 and probably wouldn't have sanctioned that, because it has brought on a world of problems they probably didn't want to deal with. I did read that they did not know a lot early but later analysis showed that Hezbollah troop movements right before the attack were extremely unusual and defensive indicating they knew. I do think they were all genuinely shocked about how successful (creepy to call mass murder and rape of civilians successful). Regardless if they knew or didn't know the biggest difference is that Hamas is mostly Sunni whereas the other Proxies and Iran are Shia. Basically everywhere else in the middle east Shia and Sunni extremists are killing each other where when it comes to Israel I guess they are able to work together to try to kill the Jews. If the "axis of Resistance" was able to kill everyone in Israel and take over, it is very likely that it just transitions into another war where now the Shia and Sunni in the area are trying to kill each other and the Hamas ask would be instead of martyring yourselves against the Jews do it against our other enemy. But guaranteed it would be no freedom for the Palestinians as neither group of extremists believes in that. That is if there are any left. | ||
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Billyboy
175 Posts
In Gaza neither side cares about the civilians. One side is OK if any die while taking out their enemy and the other side is happy if a bunch of them die to make their enemy look worse. It is gross. | ||
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KT_Elwood
474 Posts
On October 07 2024 19:13 Nebuchad wrote: So in other words, the left was correct about what the Netanyahu administration aims to do: remove Palestinians, and claim it's about security concerns. Thanks. There are still problems in this editorial if it's been paraphrased correctly here, the vision that a can of worms opened in 2023 and it was closed in 2006 requires that nothing noteworthy happened between 2006 and 2023, which means that Israel killing Palestinians (roughly 7000 of them between 2008 and 2023, I'm finding) is not noteworthy. But this is expected; if liberal newspapers start admitting that Israel wants to remove Palestinians it's a step in the direction of clarity, I'll take it. Yes, and Hamas gave a good enough pretext to do so from a moral high ground. Editorial states that you had 15 years of calculated exchanges and escalation. Hamas sends 10 rockets, site gets demolished hitting civilians.. and so on. This is now over and middle east will find a new modus operandi in this total war. To me it's clear that gaza can't be a palestine territory anymore. The miserable population is breeding ground for iranian proxies and instead of forming anything close to a modern civilization it's basicly 50% kids waiting for the next UNWRA food delivery. It's a mullahs armpit. Relocate the people or give anyone wanting peace an israeli passport.... and be done with it. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11670 Posts
On October 08 2024 19:05 KT_Elwood wrote: Yes, and Hamas gave a good enough pretext to do so from a moral high ground. Editorial states that you had 15 years of calculated exchanges and escalation. Hamas sends 10 rockets, site gets demolished hitting civilians.. and so on. This is now over and middle east will find a new modus operandi in this total war. To me it's clear that gaza can't be a palestine territory anymore. The miserable population is breeding ground for iranian proxies and instead of forming anything close to a modern civilization it's basicly 50% kids waiting for the next UNWRA food delivery. It's a mullahs armpit. Relocate the people or give anyone wanting peace an israeli passport.... and be done with it. Yeah, it's a view of the conflict that a lot of people hold but fewer people are willing to admit to. I think the main issue with it is that while you fix one of the main issues (people living under occupation), you're still left with two large problems: a fascist israeli government that will want to continue to expand and has seen that nobody is willing to stop it, so you're probably looking at further "wars of self-defense with settlements" against Lebanon and others, a continuation of that spiral, and a large number of new refugees that you now have to accomodate, a proportion of which will probably be motivated to join groups fighting against Israel. I also have an issue with it morally because ethnic cleansing is wrong, I'm just mentioning it because it feels weird to not mention it, I understand that no one cares about my morals. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3158 Posts
"To me it's clear that Israel can't be a Jewish territory anymore. The miserable population is breeding ground for US proxies and instead of forming anything close to a peaceful civilization it's basically all radicalized adults waiting for the next arms delivery. It's a mullahs armpit. Relocate the people or give anyone wanting peace a Palestinian passport.... and be done with it." Isn't this quite revealing. So, if we flip it back to the original quote, may I suggest that Israel should end this war and let Gaza build a few generations with a stable adult population in relative peace and prosperity? Oh, wait. This doesn't work, because if it did, Israel would follow the same logic. They've had relative peace and prosperity and yet they keep destroying their neighbors whenever a terrorist attack occurs while stealing their land for no reason whatsoever. And so, instead of proposing that the bully that is Israel should stop receiving Western aid, we recommend that Gaza gets ethnically cleansed. As if that option was more doable and more humane than cutting all aid. | ||
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pmp10
3213 Posts
Nothing quick or limited about it anymore. Possibly a result of another deal with US for no serious retaliation on Iran. Interestingly this may impact EU as more migrant waves are almost a given and they usually win right-wing parties more votes. Maybe that's why Macron was speaking up about limiting arms deliveries to Israel. | ||
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KT_Elwood
474 Posts
On October 08 2024 20:22 Magic Powers wrote: Let me rewrite this just a bit: .... That's a rather useless exercise. To me the existence of israel can't be questioned. Hamas tried one year ago.. again.. and their shit kingdom has since collapsed. Hamas&Fatah are indoctrinating boys to become martyrs..girls to become obedient housewifes and mothers to martyrs.. how the fuck do you defend that kind of bullcrap? What kind of society does that? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11670 Posts
On October 08 2024 23:17 KT_Elwood wrote: That's a rather useless exercise. To me the existence of israel can't be questioned. Hamas tried one year ago.. again.. and their shit kingdom has since collapsed. Hamas&Fatah are indoctrinating boys to become martyrs..girls to become obedient housewifes and mothers to martyrs.. how the fuck do you defend that kind of bullcrap? What kind of society does that? A far right one. It seems bad, possibly one of the reasons why I chose to become a leftist. I don't subscribe to everything MP writes but posts like these are just projection. All of these threads revolve around whether Israel, a far right society, can be defended, and people on your side are saying yes. So, "how the fuck do you defend that kind of bullcrap", well pretty easily it sounds like, doesn't seem like it's much trouble at all. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10524 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11670 Posts
On October 08 2024 23:57 Velr wrote: Yeah, because the country is constantly under attack by people who think the magna carta is too progressive/radical. Interesting theory, but unfortunately that doesn't play out, as Palestine and Lebanon are constantly under attack from Israel as well and you still manage to blame their far right factions. | ||
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