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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On October 07 2024 03:27 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 02:34 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 00:22 PremoBeats wrote:
Any thoughts in regards to my last reply where I refuted the idea that Israel tried to starve Gazans?
My thought are that you refuted nothing. Until you can provide alternative explanation for the creation of Gaza floating pier the simples explanation applies. The simplest explanation being that Israel was deliberately starving Gaza out of bloody-minded vengefulness and US had to step in to save their reputation. So you deny that only less than 2% of the trucks were denied entry? Do you also deny the 650 truck standing at Kerem Shalom post-inspection? Do you also deny that 50% more food than the calculated nutrional needs entered Gaza? Do you also deny that Palestinians said that Hamas is stealing goods and re-selling them at inflated prices on the black market? Do you also deny that Hamas' ware houses are bursting from humanitarian aid and that they beat up and torture civilins who try to get to this aid? I say irrelevant to the point, true or otherwise. Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:
You deny all this to create a narrative about a Pier that due to logistical issues and adverse weather conditions rarely made any dents into the overall aid delivery and only operated for 20 days? Are you for real here? Is this your point of contention?
Ask yourself why US made that pier despite all these complication. Biden was willing to risk failure (which it turned out to be) exactly because Israel's alternative at the time was way worse.
Irrelevant?
To the question wether or not Israel as the providing side tried to starve Gaza it - according to you - is irrelevant that enough food entered Gaza? Or that Hamas has bursting ware houses because the issue was obviously not the providing but the distributing side?
Are you mad?
And you go on to say that the USA tried to prevent a supposed attempted large scale starvation by Israel with that Pier. And the Pier failed.Then why did the large scale starvation not happen? Your notions are utterly illogical and completely defy all common sense.
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On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 03:27 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 02:34 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 00:22 PremoBeats wrote:
Any thoughts in regards to my last reply where I refuted the idea that Israel tried to starve Gazans?
My thought are that you refuted nothing. Until you can provide alternative explanation for the creation of Gaza floating pier the simples explanation applies. The simplest explanation being that Israel was deliberately starving Gaza out of bloody-minded vengefulness and US had to step in to save their reputation. So you deny that only less than 2% of the trucks were denied entry? Do you also deny the 650 truck standing at Kerem Shalom post-inspection? Do you also deny that 50% more food than the calculated nutrional needs entered Gaza? Do you also deny that Palestinians said that Hamas is stealing goods and re-selling them at inflated prices on the black market? Do you also deny that Hamas' ware houses are bursting from humanitarian aid and that they beat up and torture civilins who try to get to this aid? I say irrelevant to the point, true or otherwise. On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:
You deny all this to create a narrative about a Pier that due to logistical issues and adverse weather conditions rarely made any dents into the overall aid delivery and only operated for 20 days? Are you for real here? Is this your point of contention?
Ask yourself why US made that pier despite all these complication. Biden was willing to risk failure (which it turned out to be) exactly because Israel's alternative at the time was way worse. Irrelevant? To the question wether or not Israel as the providing side tried to starve Gaza it - according to you - is irrelevant that enough food entered Gaza? Or that Hamas has bursting ware houses because the issue was obviously not the providing but the distributing side? Are you mad?
These titbits you provide absolutely are irrelevant.
If you have a complete dataset of all cargo moved into Gaza (ideally with separate count of foodstuffs) for the last few years (including the war of course) please feel to share.
We can do armchair analysis and napkin math.
Missing that, I will put much more stock in the actions of the most powerful man in world.
One that was better informed then us, loved to talk-up 'rules based order' and was facing a tough reelection campaign.
On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:
And you go on to say that the USA tried to prevent a supposed attempted large scale starvation by Israel with that Pier. And the Pier failed.Then why did the large scale starvation not happen? Your notions are utterly illogical and completely defy all common sense.
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza.
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On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza.
There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you.
Wiki has a timeline on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine
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On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine
Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time.
The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before.
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On October 07 2024 00:22 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2024 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On October 06 2024 21:03 PremoBeats wrote:On October 06 2024 20:27 Magic Powers wrote:" “I think today, the priority is that we return to a political solution, that we stop delivering arms for fighting in Gaza,” Macron said. He said France is not delivering any." "Following successive Israeli attacks in Lebanon, he said the Lebanese people should not be “sacrificed” and Lebanon should not become “a new Gaza.” " Iran also offers a cease-fire under the condition that Israel stops fighting in Gaza. Friendly reminder that Hezbollah has said the same thing. https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-israel-gaza-halt-weapons-delivery Easy to say for Macron, as his country wasn't the target of an unprecedented attack. And wouldn't it be nice to be in Hezbollah's shoes? Attack a sovereign nation with their Hamas buddies and once it fights back, call for a cease-fire. Also a friendly reminder: Israel offers a cease-fire too once their demands are met. Hooray. So has Russia. And? By the way: Have you in the meantime come to accept that Hamas launched rockets at Israel from safety zones, as the link you yourself posted, has mentioned?
Just because demands are made doesn't mean they're reasonable demands.
Not sure which link you're referring to, but terror organizations gonna terror organization. What are your thoughts on Israel once again using white phosphorous, a banned weapon, in residential areas? Or settlement companies advertising for new settlements in Lebanon?
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I thought about it, but everyone either knows Israel/the US was doing this or they are intentionally denying reality to rationalize what is clearly bipartisan US support of Israeli war crimes in violation of international and domestic US laws.
I'd argue that's largely because a little over a year ago most people "knew" they would radically oppose genocide only to now discover they've convinced themselves that enabling genocide is the right and necessary thing to do.
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United States41383 Posts
On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before.
Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom.
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On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom.
Population growth is not evidence of food security.
Still waiting for those quotes, btw.
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United States41383 Posts
On October 07 2024 12:19 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom. Population growth is not evidence of food security. Still waiting for those quotes, btw.
It’s like how the population of Ireland soared once the potatoes were gone.
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On October 07 2024 12:19 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom. Population growth is not evidence of food security. Still waiting for those quotes, btw.
Food insecurity is a pretty big goal post shift from intentional mass starvation
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On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 03:27 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 02:34 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 00:22 PremoBeats wrote:
Any thoughts in regards to my last reply where I refuted the idea that Israel tried to starve Gazans?
My thought are that you refuted nothing. Until you can provide alternative explanation for the creation of Gaza floating pier the simples explanation applies. The simplest explanation being that Israel was deliberately starving Gaza out of bloody-minded vengefulness and US had to step in to save their reputation. So you deny that only less than 2% of the trucks were denied entry? Do you also deny the 650 truck standing at Kerem Shalom post-inspection? Do you also deny that 50% more food than the calculated nutrional needs entered Gaza? Do you also deny that Palestinians said that Hamas is stealing goods and re-selling them at inflated prices on the black market? Do you also deny that Hamas' ware houses are bursting from humanitarian aid and that they beat up and torture civilins who try to get to this aid? I say irrelevant to the point, true or otherwise. On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:
You deny all this to create a narrative about a Pier that due to logistical issues and adverse weather conditions rarely made any dents into the overall aid delivery and only operated for 20 days? Are you for real here? Is this your point of contention?
Ask yourself why US made that pier despite all these complication. Biden was willing to risk failure (which it turned out to be) exactly because Israel's alternative at the time was way worse. Irrelevant? To the question wether or not Israel as the providing side tried to starve Gaza it - according to you - is irrelevant that enough food entered Gaza? Or that Hamas has bursting ware houses because the issue was obviously not the providing but the distributing side? Are you mad? These titbits you provide absolutely are irrelevant. If you have a complete dataset of all cargo moved into Gaza (ideally with separate count of foodstuffs) for the last few years (including the war of course) please feel to share. We can do armchair analysis and napkin math. Missing that, I will put much more stock in the actions of the most powerful man in world. One that was better informed then us, loved to talk-up 'rules based order' and was facing a tough reelection campaign. Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:
And you go on to say that the USA tried to prevent a supposed attempted large scale starvation by Israel with that Pier. And the Pier failed.Then why did the large scale starvation not happen? Your notions are utterly illogical and completely defy all common sense. It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented. It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza.
And you probably also need a photograph of each can of food to be absolutely sure, yeah?
So Israel relented? How? At what time did humanitarian aid go down and back up again, exactly? What is the basis for this analysis except a guess that is based on a pier that hardly worked?
@all the other reality-deniers and posters who only address notions where they think they have a chance of arguing back (Nebuchad, Magic Powers):
https://www.aipac.org/resources/israel-humanitarian-aid-gaza
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030
https://assets-eu.researchsquare.com/files/rs-4454344/v1/3c6b0d3f-a733-4cad-9fca-16ee358b8a54.pdf?c=1719412619
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/23/hamas-terrorists-attack-kerem-shalom-aid-crossing-for-fourth-time-in-may/
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza-via-israel-during-the-swords-of-iron-war-3-jun-2024
The complete blockade lasted 16 days (which I previously mentioned multiple times and none of you replied to).
These links give credit to all the statements I made.
Feel free to address them and see you next weekend.
Perhaps you also have whistleblower statements to support your notions because as a government enforced famine of the whole Gaza Strip would need to be approved top to bottom in several governmental bodies and the military over several years. So a single whistleblower should be easy to find (at least if it really happened)!
But thanks for a wikipedia article that points out that Hamas didn't steal any goods! Which of course is a completely absurd thing to think... why would terrorists ever commit such horrible things like stealing humanitarian aid and enriching themselves in the process, while trying to enforce a crisis to save their asses, like even Palestinians and Fatah report. Stupid me.
https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinian-activist-ramzi-awda-hamas-stealing-aid-gaza-reselling-high-prices-rejects-solution
https://allisrael.com/fatah-linked-palestinian-news-channel-accuses-hamas-of-stealing-food-to-create-a-humanitarian-crisis
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There were two IPC reports on this. The latest conclusions were quite clear:
In this context, at the moment, the available evidence does not indicate that Famine is occurring.
A new analysis was conducted by the multi-agency analysis team between 27 May and 4 June 2024 and the FRC was requested to assess the plausibility of the risk of Famine for the projected period (16 June to 30 September 2024).
The FRC finds the analysis team’s classifications in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency) for the “current” period (1 May – 15 June) for all areas plausible.
The FRC also considers the analysis team’s classification of IPC Phase 4 (Emergency) for the projection period (16 June – 30 September 2024) for all the areas plausible, based on the scenario and assumptions set by the analysis team.
The FRC finds the risk of Famine plausible for all areas, based on the assumptions set by the analysis team. A high risk of Famine persists as long as conflict continues, and humanitarian access is restricted.
There's no famine occurring, a very high level of food insecurity, and a high risk famine.
www.un.org
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On October 07 2024 13:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 12:19 Salazarz wrote:On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom. Population growth is not evidence of food security. Still waiting for those quotes, btw. It’s like how the population of Ireland soared once the potatoes were gone.
To quote a certain poster from the US politics thread, you have brain rot and should drink bleach. There's been at least half a dozen major famines in 21st century that did not lead to a significant reduction in population in the affected countries. Or are you going to argue that the famines in Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Niger or whatever are also all made up? In that case, you should really double up on bleach.
Still waiting for the quotes of me professing love for terrorism, by the way.
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United States41383 Posts
On October 07 2024 15:39 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 13:04 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 12:19 Salazarz wrote:On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom. Population growth is not evidence of food security. Still waiting for those quotes, btw. It’s like how the population of Ireland soared once the potatoes were gone. To quote a certain poster from the US politics thread, you have brain rot and should drink bleach. There's been at least half a dozen major famines in 21st century that did not lead to a significant reduction in population in the affected countries. Or are you going to argue that the famines in Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Niger or whatever are also all made up? In that case, you should really double up on bleach. Still waiting for the quotes of me professing love for terrorism, by the way.
Don’t know why you’re waiting for it. You were there when you wrote it.
A famine is when people are dying from not having enough food to feed the population. When the population is growing rapidly there is no food constraint.
But let’s say that we accept your premise, that famines somehow lead to population growth due to ????. That’d make Israel causing a famine in Gaza the very furthest thing from genocide due to all the expected additional Palestinians who would be born in the famine boom. That’s not the argument I’m making, that’s the implication of the argument you’re making.
Additionally there are a number of famines around the world right now and you seem to be laser focused on this one where the people have enough food. It’s almost as if your interest in famines is not so much about whether people are starving but rather whether you can blame Jews for it.
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Population growth and the existence of famine are not mutually exclusive. Take this graph of population in Somalia:
https://datacommons.org/place/country/SOM?utm_medium=explore&mprop=count&popt=Person&hl=en
There were two major famines (and a whole bunch of smaller ones). One in 1992, and one in 2011, and in both an estimated 250k people died of starvation.
In 1992, we see a significant dip in population. In 2011 the population keeps growing (albeit at a slower rate). It isn't that the famine didn't happen, it's that death rate isn't the only factor that goes into population growth...
Now whether Gaza is experiencing a famine or just extreme food insecurity, I'll leave up to y'all to quibble about, but using population growth as an argument against famine is just dumb. Also, citation needed on population growth in Gaza during 2024. I highly doubt there's an accurate census from a war zone with repeated mass displacement...
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As usual,
On December 22 2023 12:00 KwarK wrote:
Bunch of places are facing famines. Turns out that having the Gazan population double every 10 years in a country that has no economy isn’t sustainable. Feeding them without fixing anything is literally how we got to this point. If you’re a 15 year old in Gaza of course you’re going to fuck, nothing else to do and no future worth worrying about.
On October 17 2023 04:25 KwarK wrote:
That’s a really bad argument. Kicking everyone off their land, erasing a state, putting them in a camp, and making the UN aid programs feed them does result in population growth but it is still ethnic cleansing. The follow up to creating a failed state also seems to include a lot of “they’re vermin” and “drive them into the sea” rhetoric which is not great.
You might as well argue that Hitler was helping the Jews because his actions helped create Israel. You can’t point to something like population in isolation and extrapolate back that Israel is really trying to help Palestine.
This one is particularly egregious because the famine is during this conflict, so I don't really know how population growth relates.
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On October 07 2024 15:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 15:39 Salazarz wrote:On October 07 2024 13:04 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 12:19 Salazarz wrote:On October 07 2024 09:56 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2024 07:52 Magic Powers wrote:On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine Correct. There's been lots of strong evidence that many people have been starving in Gaza throughout most of the war and it has gotten worse over time. The denialism of Israel withholding essentials is now also apparently more rampant in this thread than it's ever been. There's now more pro-Israel propaganda being shared here than ever before. Gaza is experiencing that classic famine population boom. Population growth is not evidence of food security. Still waiting for those quotes, btw. It’s like how the population of Ireland soared once the potatoes were gone. To quote a certain poster from the US politics thread, you have brain rot and should drink bleach. There's been at least half a dozen major famines in 21st century that did not lead to a significant reduction in population in the affected countries. Or are you going to argue that the famines in Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Niger or whatever are also all made up? In that case, you should really double up on bleach. Still waiting for the quotes of me professing love for terrorism, by the way. A famine is when people are dying from not having enough food to feed the population. When the population is growing rapidly there is no food constraint.
So you are arguing that the famines in 'Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Niger or whatever' are all made up?
Additionally there are a number of famines around the world right now and you seem to be laser focused on this one where the people have enough food. It’s almost as if your interest in famines is not so much about whether people are starving but rather whether you can blame Jews for it.
This is a very silly argument and you should know that.
There is always an equivalent thing happening elsewhere in the world, and it isn't racism to focus on one part of the world, it tends to be how 100% of people view issues 100% of the time in fact.
I could go through every single one of your posts, point out things that are happening elsewhere in the world in a similar way and then morally judge you for which ones you decide to put your energy into talking about. I won't though, because that would be completely ridiculous.
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On October 07 2024 14:52 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 03:27 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:On October 07 2024 02:34 pmp10 wrote:On October 07 2024 00:22 PremoBeats wrote:
Any thoughts in regards to my last reply where I refuted the idea that Israel tried to starve Gazans?
My thought are that you refuted nothing. Until you can provide alternative explanation for the creation of Gaza floating pier the simples explanation applies. The simplest explanation being that Israel was deliberately starving Gaza out of bloody-minded vengefulness and US had to step in to save their reputation. So you deny that only less than 2% of the trucks were denied entry? Do you also deny the 650 truck standing at Kerem Shalom post-inspection? Do you also deny that 50% more food than the calculated nutrional needs entered Gaza? Do you also deny that Palestinians said that Hamas is stealing goods and re-selling them at inflated prices on the black market? Do you also deny that Hamas' ware houses are bursting from humanitarian aid and that they beat up and torture civilins who try to get to this aid? I say irrelevant to the point, true or otherwise. On October 07 2024 02:46 PremoBeats wrote:
You deny all this to create a narrative about a Pier that due to logistical issues and adverse weather conditions rarely made any dents into the overall aid delivery and only operated for 20 days? Are you for real here? Is this your point of contention?
Ask yourself why US made that pier despite all these complication. Biden was willing to risk failure (which it turned out to be) exactly because Israel's alternative at the time was way worse. Irrelevant? To the question wether or not Israel as the providing side tried to starve Gaza it - according to you - is irrelevant that enough food entered Gaza? Or that Hamas has bursting ware houses because the issue was obviously not the providing but the distributing side? Are you mad? These titbits you provide absolutely are irrelevant. If you have a complete dataset of all cargo moved into Gaza (ideally with separate count of foodstuffs) for the last few years (including the war of course) please feel to share. We can do armchair analysis and napkin math. Missing that, I will put much more stock in the actions of the most powerful man in world. One that was better informed then us, loved to talk-up 'rules based order' and was facing a tough reelection campaign. On October 07 2024 03:45 PremoBeats wrote:
And you go on to say that the USA tried to prevent a supposed attempted large scale starvation by Israel with that Pier. And the Pier failed.Then why did the large scale starvation not happen? Your notions are utterly illogical and completely defy all common sense. It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented. It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. And you probably also need a photograph of each can of food to be absolutely sure, yeah?
You are no fun.
This was the point where you were supposed to show Israeli humanitarian data where there is absolutely no change to aid reaching Gaza whatsoever.
And then I would counter with UN dataset showing that most Palestinians have starved to death already.
That's the problem with high level politics, we will never be provided with data that contradicts the narrative.
Your factoids are just more cherry-picked and context-less than most.
On October 07 2024 07:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 06:46 pmp10 wrote:
It didn't happen because Israel eventually relented.
It either bucked under the political pressure or a deal was reached with US which allowed for delivering of humanitarian aid, likely in exchange for a freer hand in Gaza. There is famine in Gaza, the sealion is just lying to you. Wiki has a timeline on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine
I'm sorry but I will not be taking seriously any article that links to 'Gaza freedom flotilla'.
There is a place in the world for activism but it's not on Wikipedia.
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On October 07 2024 16:30 pmp10 wrote:
I'm sorry but I will not be taking seriously any article that links to 'Gaza freedom flotilla'.
There is a place in the world for activism but it's not on Wikipedia.
The link is another wiki article that explains what it is?
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EPT
