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ProTech
United States433 Posts
This is the most obvious use of map hack I've ran into. The sad truth is, I'm running into this blatant garbage so often now. Do we even have a team working on the game at all? One thing that could clean up the ladder again is micro-patching the game, making the cheats not work for a few hours.. Who knows but my prediction is by this time next year every single game you play will be like this one. | ||
zatic
Zurich15307 Posts
I am playing SC2 regularly and after 15 years I have yet to find my first obvious map hacker. Maybe it's different on higher levels but I feel like it's a non issue at least where I am playing (~4k). | ||
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ProTech
United States433 Posts
On August 13 2024 18:20 zatic wrote: Is it really that bad? I am playing SC2 regularly and after 15 years I have yet to find my first obvious map hacker. Maybe it's different on higher levels but I feel like it's a non issue at least where I am playing (~4k). Yeah it's pretty bad. The volume of it is obviously much higher when I'm streaming due to sniping, but I've played a lot off stream recently and this is what I'm running into 1 in 3 games. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
There are definitely a handful of hackers out there, but it's nowhere near 1 in 3 games. | ||
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ProTech
United States433 Posts
On August 13 2024 18:47 MJG wrote: I only cheese when I play ladder so if maphacking was as rampant as you say it is then I would've noticed by now. There are definitely a handful of hackers out there, but it's nowhere near 1 in 3 games. This is my experience, maybe yours is different. But it's destroying the enjoyability of the game for me. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On August 13 2024 18:47 MJG wrote: I only cheese when I play ladder so if maphacking was as rampant as you say it is then I would've noticed by now. There are definitely a handful of hackers out there, but it's nowhere near 1 in 3 games. Could be a difference in game modes I guess? Map hack is potent, it isn’t aimbot though (also legitimately one of the saddest of all human activities), I mean you gotta close games out. To really get anywhere on ladder in 1v1 you gotta have at least competent mechanics, the only way around that is to map hack and cheese so brazenly that you’ll likely get found out quickly. Map hack can give you obvious advantages, but the only way to seize upon them to bridge a big, big skill gap is to play extremely suspiciously. I imagine it’s easier to hide in 2v2 too, you have 2x the players and units to do ‘lucky’ scouts to camouflage what you’re doing. It’s not a mode taken nearly as seriously so you don’t have to be quite as good at the game to climb the ranks either. Plus I mean, there’s a cultural element. It won’t eliminate hacking, but after 14+ years, people who play 1v1 ladder (at any level) are mostly playing it to test themselves mano o mano. There’s a different mentality to other titles, it can be almost masochistic but I think it does limit hacking prevalence. As I joke, if you prefer to blame others for your failings, play team games, if you prefer to beat yourself up, play StarCraft. If you prefer to blame the game, play Protoss :p It’s also not a big enough game anymore that you can really be a streamer and make much moolah unless you’ve been doing it forever, or are a top pro player. Unlike other games where you can grab plenty of viewers through a high rank and ‘high skilled’ gameplay until you fuck up and accidentally stream with your hacks visible (you love to see it when that happens) Alternatively Protech is off in his assessment of hacking prevalence, which would be totally atypical! | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1782 Posts
AKA: Honestly, if you were nicer, these people would troll you less on ladder. | ||
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Philippe
347 Posts
On August 13 2024 20:37 Mizenhauer wrote: Protech conspiracy theories........ AKA: Honestly, if you were nicer, these people would troll you less on ladder. Pretty much what I wanted to say on the initial topic, but decided not to. If I wanted to go the inflammatory route, I would say players deploy hackings more especially against you (and that the more you complain, the more it happens), but that's a step I won't take. Clearly, having a big baggage doesn't help, either forum or ladder. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1026 Posts
On August 13 2024 20:37 Mizenhauer wrote: Protech conspiracy theories........ AKA: Honestly, if you were nicer, these people would troll you less on ladder. I know not watching the video first in full is bad faith, but I was honestly wondering myself...is this a real hack or just this guy falling through again? | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On August 13 2024 18:20 zatic wrote: Is it really that bad? I am playing SC2 regularly and after 15 years I have yet to find my first obvious map hacker. Maybe it's different on higher levels but I feel like it's a non issue at least where I am playing (~4k). Same I've never felt like I've played against a map hacker. Maybe (probably?) I did and not realize it, but it certainly doesn't impact my experience. If they don't abuse the matchmaking I wouldn't even care much, I still get to play my game and have a shot at winning. But log into a CSGO lobby and half the time you'll get no-scope headshot through 4 walls by someone doing 360, to me that's the kind of hack that ruins a game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On August 14 2024 03:13 Nakajin wrote: Same I've never felt like I've played against a map hacker. Maybe (probably?) I did and not realize it, but it certainly doesn't impact my experience. If they don't abuse the matchmaking I wouldn't even care much, I still get to play my game and have a shot at winning. But log into a CSGO lobby and half the time you'll get no-scope headshot through 4 walls by someone doing 360, to me that's the kind of hack that ruins a game. Oh sorry about that, I’ll have you know those skills are legit though, although personally I prefer the flourish of a 720 | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1592 Posts
On August 14 2024 03:13 Nakajin wrote: Same I've never felt like I've played against a map hacker. Maybe (probably?) I did and not realize it, but it certainly doesn't impact my experience. If they don't abuse the matchmaking I wouldn't even care much, I still get to play my game and have a shot at winning. But log into a CSGO lobby and half the time you'll get no-scope headshot through 4 walls by someone doing 360, to me that's the kind of hack that ruins a game. There is the massive difference though. You get to actually SEE the hacks visibly and KNOW that is what is happening. Meanwhile you could do soft hacking in both games that would be hard to detect. You can use walls and not pre-aim in CS and go relatively undetected other than people making beyond pro level CS game sense moves. You could even have an aim assist that allows you to fire, then corrects for a headshot. Both would seem somewhat natural, without all the crazy bhop, spin bot, through wall, full auto scout type stuff. In SC2 and/or broodwar it isn't directly as obvious they could even make simple adaptations to adjust for things. Such as they can tell you're sending a dropship around the map, so they keep their units near their base. Then send a probe to a 3rd too early, but not so suspicious to "spot" the dropship. Now it looks like you were just spotted and nothing suspicious happened, but they didn't move their army out like someone normally would, and they sent a probe to the third early, but maybe they're just crazy aggro in their eco. And this is just one instance. Meanwhile it isn't like the old SC2 hacks with warp in immortals from a gateway, unlimited money, or an SCV one shotting an ultra. I think some people call it a "soft" version of cheating, but I'm not sure that is the term or not. But there are plenty of ways to hide it so at the end of the match you might not even question it. The worst part is you'll never really know, there are people who only go for the flusha play 24/7, maybe because they're on a smurf or maybe they're bored in regular matches. So you'll call them cheaters when they're actually just really good and alert and messing around. Meanwhile someone can post up a relatively tame score, make the slightest difference for the team, and win the match but you think it was legit even though they were walling with an aim assist. | ||
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esReveR
United States566 Posts
I personally haven't encountered a map hacker on ladder in almost 2 years. But, that's because you don't really see hackers below M1/GM, and I'm not that level. Having full knowledge of what's happening in a game of imperfect information is just that powerful. I'm pretty sure there is still a ban review process for obvious hacker reports. There was a email Blizzard had where you were supposed to include the replay and/or a youtube video. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12127 Posts
On August 13 2024 20:37 Mizenhauer wrote: Protech conspiracy theories........ AKA: Honestly, if you were nicer, these people would troll you less on ladder. Sure, he is being trolled by an obvious cheater, lets blame the victim! | ||
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IsraelWilliams
15 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On August 14 2024 18:46 deacon.frost wrote: Sure, he is being trolled by an obvious cheater, lets blame the victim! Isn’t this basically the whole moral of the story of the boy who cried wolf? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16298 Posts
On August 13 2024 18:16 ProTech wrote: Do we even have a team working on the game at all? Blizzard has almost 0 resources assigned to SC2. Nothing is going to improve on their end. There are people who hack in PvE games. Hacking is part of every game and every community to greater or lesser extents. Lag is also an issue. Bugs are now omnipresent in the massive complex games of 2024.The only way to maintain a pure competitive experience is to compete in person at the same place. IRL competition in video games is also 1000X more fun. On September 14 2024 22:02 WombaT wrote: Isn’t this basically the whole moral of the story of the boy who cried wolf? I recall you made a comment about video gamers being angry a lot. In relation to that, As long as you go into SC2 or whatever online game with low expectations fully realizing lag, cheat hacks, and bugs will mar your experience you will be a lot less angry. Generally speaking, online gaming is pretty meh. This can not change. Its impossible that it will substantially improve because bugs, hacking, and lagging have been happening since 1995. You're sitting alone in your room hunched over a glowing box staring into a flat 2D screen inches away from your face. This is not exactly healthy for your nervous system or your circulatory systems or mental health. We end up with a lot of angry people partially because they have unrealistic expectations. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On September 14 2024 22:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Blizzard has almost 0 resources assigned to SC2. Nothing is going to improve on their end. There are people who hack in PvE games. Hacking is part of every game and every community to greater or lesser extents. Lag is also an issue. Bugs are now omnipresent in the massive complex games of 2024.The only way to maintain a pure competitive experience is to compete in person at the same place. IRL competition in video games is also 1000X more fun. I recall you made a comment about video gamers being angry a lot. In relation to that, As long as you go into SC2 or whatever online game with low expectations fully realizing lag, cheat hacks, and bugs will mar your experience you will be a lot less angry. Generally speaking, online gaming is pretty meh. This can not change. Its impossible that it will substantially improve because bugs, hacking, and lagging have been happening since 1995. You're sitting alone in your room hunched over a glowing box staring into a flat 2D screen inches away from your face. This is not exactly healthy for your nervous system or your circulatory systems or mental health. We end up with a lot of angry people partially because they have unrealistic expectations. They’ve unrealistic expectations which is precisely the issue Protech’s estimation on hacking prevalence in 2v2 far, far exceeds what most estimate in 1v1. And 1v1 is the prestige, flex mode that people care about. Ideally you have zero hacks, absolutely but ProTech has a proven track record of pulling the ‘anyone who beats me is hacking’. Occasionally he is correct, but often he is not. Yeah doing stuff in person is fun, we’ve done a de facto Irish championship for like 13 years now, there’s plenty of fun to be had at LANs but it’s not remotely a substitute for online play these days. Least in my locale we don’t even have regular LAN cafes so we have to tack ourselves to a convention and do all the tech setup ourselves to do it even annually. The facilities don’t exist for us to do it as a regular concern | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16298 Posts
 I consider hackers part of the challenge of playing online games. If my rank is somewhat lower due to hackers ... I do not care. No one else cares where I am ranked. + Show Spoiler + Barcades/Arcades, Pinball Machines, PC Bangs, LAN Cafes are making a big comeback in North Eastern USA and South East Canada. Major Malls in the Toronto area are all getting Arcades or they have them now. They were all closing down when I was a teenager. Now, they're back. This is the place to be! I'd say shooting some hoops is probably higher on my fun ladder than solitary online PC Games. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
Great, that space now exists. We still don’t really have a single proper arcade machine venue in my city, which isn’t a small city indeed it’s the capital of Northern Ireland. It’s slim pickings, my local university have a gaming/nerd society that stick on the biggest amateur nerd convention in all of Europe, and they’ll stick up some sim cabs for their weekly events but aside from that, very little indeed. Tis a shame, but I can’t imagine this state of affairs is especially atypical either. | ||
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