On February 15 2024 11:52 Nasigil wrote: If you say something like this in 2018, then yeah I kinda agree. Serral was incredible but he hasn't got tested enough by KR players. He won some series against the best of them but there's no guarantee he could keep doing it once KR players really started to specifically prepare against him.
But whoever still believe the same thing in 2024 are just in pure denial. Serral has been the best player in the world for 5 years. He's won 25 premiere tournaments, even if you discount the region-lock ones he still won more than anyone else. You are kidding yourself if you don't think all the Korean players haven't been trying to prepare against him for the past 5 years. Everyone, especially the top players like Maru, Dark and Rogue, knows the biggest obstacle to their international success will be Serral, if there's one player they have to put in the most effort to prepare against, it's Serral.
And he still went 20-1 to take Katowice 2024. And he has hold a winning record against every single KR players in the last 5 years, many of them are pretty one-sided, including Maru. That's the result of years of supposedly fearsome KR preparation, not mere days or weeks. At this point, it's GSL that has lost its prestigious status because the best player in the world doesn't play in it, not the other way around.
On February 15 2024 11:52 Nasigil wrote: If you say something like this in 2018, then yeah I kinda agree. Serral was incredible but he hasn't got tested enough by KR players. He won some series against the best of them but there's no guarantee he could keep doing it once KR players really started to specifically prepare against him.
But whoever still believe the same thing in 2024 are just in pure denial. Serral has been the best player in the world for 5 years. He's won 25 premiere tournaments, even if you discount the region-lock ones he still won more than anyone else. You are kidding yourself if you don't think all the Korean players haven't been trying to prepare against him for the past 5 years. Everyone, especially the top players like Maru, Dark and Rogue, knows the biggest obstacle to their international success will be Serral, if there's one player they have to put in the most effort to prepare against, it's Serral.
And he still went 20-1 to take Katowice 2024. And he has hold a winning record against every single KR players in the last 5 years, many of them are pretty one-sided, including Maru. That's the result of years of supposedly fearsome KR preparation, not mere days or weeks. At this point, it's GSL that has lost its prestigious status because the best player in the world doesn't play in it, not the other way around.
He doesn't hold a winning record against DRG
Fellas, I went into prison in 2012 and just got out, is DRG still the best Zerg in the world?
On February 15 2024 11:52 Nasigil wrote: If you say something like this in 2018, then yeah I kinda agree. Serral was incredible but he hasn't got tested enough by KR players. He won some series against the best of them but there's no guarantee he could keep doing it once KR players really started to specifically prepare against him.
But whoever still believe the same thing in 2024 are just in pure denial. Serral has been the best player in the world for 5 years. He's won 25 premiere tournaments, even if you discount the region-lock ones he still won more than anyone else. You are kidding yourself if you don't think all the Korean players haven't been trying to prepare against him for the past 5 years. Everyone, especially the top players like Maru, Dark and Rogue, knows the biggest obstacle to their international success will be Serral, if there's one player they have to put in the most effort to prepare against, it's Serral.
And he still went 20-1 to take Katowice 2024. And he has hold a winning record against every single KR players in the last 5 years, many of them are pretty one-sided, including Maru. That's the result of years of supposedly fearsome KR preparation, not mere days or weeks. At this point, it's GSL that has lost its prestigious status because the best player in the world doesn't play in it, not the other way around.
He doesn't hold a winning record against DRG
Which so funny honestly. I'm pretty sure the only other players who have winning records over Serral are guys that were strong before 2017 when he wasn't great yet. Even players who have had notably beat him often like Clem, Reynor, Solar have pretty bad (30-35%) records against him in matches. And yet, DRG comes out on top with a negative map win rate. They're all from the last few years too, not some irrelevant dreamhack group stages back when Serral was a kid and DRG a top player
Winning a GSL around 2018-2020ish would have solidified Serral's GOAT claim years earlier, yeah. As for right now? Who cares. GSL's prestige is in the mud. The Korean player pool is so laughably thin. And the prize pools are approaching 2011 Code A level lmfao. I am not someone who focuses on prize pools to determine the prestige of a tournament at *all* but comparing it to previous seasons it's a good indication of where the scene is at.
its BS because even if Koreans have so much time to prepare..imagine if serral had all that time to prepare? he destroys them everywhere else under the same conditions when playing weekenders. there's no Korean special power they have when they have weeks to prepare. if serral can destroy them with no preparation imagine what he can do when he does prepare, but its all a dumb argument. if you play any tournament there are no excuses. get it done or you don't.
No, this is stupid. Maru would trade his Code S titles for World Championsship titles. Maru is the only other player in the GOAT debate and he didn't win a Blizzcon/Katowice and that is a bigger smear on his resumé than not having a GSL is on Serral's. This tournament alone should also not settle the debate, just because he beats Maru in the finals in a convincing fashion. But he was also clearly the GOAT before and I don't think it's that close, but of course I can see why people think Maru. The way you can justify Maru being the GOAT, is if you bring balance into it. But first you would have to convince me that Z>T, though historically at least Z has been shitting on P a lot more than T.
On February 15 2024 08:23 FFXthebest wrote: GSL is overrated these days
Preparation is just a good excuse to use when Serral’s stomps the Koreans.
if you watch the GSL’s hardly any of the games are unique or has a specific prepared build. The only Koreans that really showed us “prepared” builds were Classic and Rogue
Every pro in the world will choose IEM Katowice over GSL. GSL you can fail and try again next season, whereas you only have one chance at Katowice during the year
Just look at the current GSL qualifier and you know how prestigous that tournament still is. In round 2: Gumiho qualified with a single win over TY, the warst player of the WTL Nightmare qualified by beating Rex twice Stats qualified with one win over sOs In the first round players also only needed like 2 wins to qualify
On February 16 2024 21:49 dbRic1203 wrote: Just look at the current GSL qualifier and you know how prestigous that tournament still is. In round 2: Gumiho qualified with a single win over TY, the warst player of the WTL Nightmare qualified by beating Rex twice Stats qualified with one win over sOs In the first round players also only needed like 2 wins to qualify
It's so sad that sOs once again barely didn't qualify cus he lost 1-2 to Stats (last time was Katowice)
Fun fact: Without the regionals Serral would have 4350 EPT points. Top Korean player (as of now Dark) has 3755. In other words Serral would have been #1 in Korea rankings without participating in single GSL and weekly. Just saying.
On February 16 2024 21:49 dbRic1203 wrote: Just look at the current GSL qualifier and you know how prestigous that tournament still is. In round 2: Gumiho qualified with a single win over TY, the warst player of the WTL Nightmare qualified by beating Rex twice Stats qualified with one win over sOs In the first round players also only needed like 2 wins to qualify
But we were told it was the hardest tournament to qualify!
On February 16 2024 21:49 dbRic1203 wrote: Just look at the current GSL qualifier and you know how prestigous that tournament still is. In round 2: Gumiho qualified with a single win over TY, the warst player of the WTL Nightmare qualified by beating Rex twice Stats qualified with one win over sOs In the first round players also only needed like 2 wins to qualify
But we were told it was the hardest tournament to qualify!
Why are there so many dogshit bad faith posts from new accounts lately?
It was the hardest tournament to qualify for. Keyword being was. The old Code A qualifiers was one of the most insanely difficult things in the world, so much so that world-class players were stuck in the qualifiers for over a year like Life, Seed and PartinG. Guys who went straight to Code S or GSL Champion.
Of course, that was over a decade ago. They have to keep lowering the GSL player count nowadays because there's not enough people even attempting to qualify anymore. If it was still 32 there'd be more people qualifying than not qualifying. The Korean scene has been in an absolutely dreadful state for years. It's been in a slow death ever since the matchfixing scandal.
The last time qualifying for GSL was this genuinely brutal, horrific thing was back when it was single elimination. Then they had a third place match, which gave it a bit more leeway, and turned it from downright unreasonable to very tough but still doable, and then at some point in LotV (2018?) made it double elimination. After they made it double elimination brackets, a bunch of foreigners started qualifying, even ones that weren't particularly good in the broader scene. Not a coincidence, shit became way easier.
EDIT: Oh yeah at some point they started giving people two chances too. You can play in both the qualifier days, which is insane. You used to get one shot and that was it.
People acting like giving a week to prepare for Serral suddenly means there's a much higher chance of beating him or something. The odds are still the same as if you're running into him at a weekend tournament. Do you think Maru, Dark, Cure, or whichever top Koreans go into these weekend tournament blind? There's a ton of Serral vods, replays, and highlights out there. They are going into these tournaments prepping for who they will run into at the later stage of the tourneys and it's always the same people: Reynor, Clem, Maru, Dark, Serral, and usually one of those Protoss players that havent retired yet.
What is prepping a week in advance for only Serral is going to do that they can't do when they're at home preparing for a weekend tournament? If they are going to cheese him in GSL, they would bust it out at the weekend tournament. If they are going to macro into a specific build against him in GSL, they would do so as well in a weekend tournament. People forget that giving Maru a week to prep for Serral means Serral has a week to prep against Maru as well. It's not like Serral isn't farming the GSL koreans lol.
On February 17 2024 11:43 phodacbiet wrote: People acting like giving a week to prepare for Serral suddenly means there's a much higher chance of beating him or something. The odds are still the same as if you're running into him at a weekend tournament. Do you think Maru, Dark, Cure, or whichever top Koreans go into these weekend tournament blind? There's a ton of Serral vods, replays, and highlights out there. They are going into these tournaments prepping for who they will run into at the later stage of the tourneys and it's always the same people: Reynor, Clem, Maru, Dark, Serral, and usually one of those Protoss players that havent retired yet.
What is prepping a week in advance for only Serral is going to do that they can't do when they're at home preparing for a weekend tournament? If they are going to cheese him in GSL, they would bust it out at the weekend tournament. If they are going to macro into a specific build against him in GSL, they would do so as well in a weekend tournament. People forget that giving Maru a week to prep for Serral means Serral has a week to prep against Maru as well. It's not like Serral isn't farming the GSL koreans lol.
It’s the only coping method the KR elitist and Serral’s haters are grabbing onto.
GSL preparation is overrated for years. It was exaggerated cause preparation was done during the early years when the game were still not figure out yet.
On February 17 2024 11:43 phodacbiet wrote: People acting like giving a week to prepare for Serral suddenly means there's a much higher chance of beating him or something. The odds are still the same as if you're running into him at a weekend tournament. Do you think Maru, Dark, Cure, or whichever top Koreans go into these weekend tournament blind? There's a ton of Serral vods, replays, and highlights out there. They are going into these tournaments prepping for who they will run into at the later stage of the tourneys and it's always the same people: Reynor, Clem, Maru, Dark, Serral, and usually one of those Protoss players that havent retired yet.
What is prepping a week in advance for only Serral is going to do that they can't do when they're at home preparing for a weekend tournament? If they are going to cheese him in GSL, they would bust it out at the weekend tournament. If they are going to macro into a specific build against him in GSL, they would do so as well in a weekend tournament. People forget that giving Maru a week to prep for Serral means Serral has a week to prep against Maru as well. It's not like Serral isn't farming the GSL koreans lol.
It’s the only coping method the KR elitist and Serral’s haters are grabbing onto.
GSL preparation is overrated for years. It was exaggerated cause preparation was done during the early years when the game were still not figure out yet.
If you want to ignore the long time historic precedent of weaker players sniping better players with specifically prepared builds across literal years of competition and different games then sure
On February 17 2024 11:43 phodacbiet wrote: People acting like giving a week to prepare for Serral suddenly means there's a much higher chance of beating him or something. The odds are still the same as if you're running into him at a weekend tournament. Do you think Maru, Dark, Cure, or whichever top Koreans go into these weekend tournament blind? There's a ton of Serral vods, replays, and highlights out there. They are going into these tournaments prepping for who they will run into at the later stage of the tourneys and it's always the same people: Reynor, Clem, Maru, Dark, Serral, and usually one of those Protoss players that havent retired yet.
What is prepping a week in advance for only Serral is going to do that they can't do when they're at home preparing for a weekend tournament? If they are going to cheese him in GSL, they would bust it out at the weekend tournament. If they are going to macro into a specific build against him in GSL, they would do so as well in a weekend tournament. People forget that giving Maru a week to prep for Serral means Serral has a week to prep against Maru as well. It's not like Serral isn't farming the GSL koreans lol.
It’s the only coping method the KR elitist and Serral’s haters are grabbing onto.
GSL preparation is overrated for years. It was exaggerated cause preparation was done during the early years when the game were still not figure out yet.
On February 15 2024 08:23 FFXthebest wrote: GSL is overrated these days
Preparation is just a good excuse to use when Serral’s stomps the Koreans.
if you watch the GSL’s hardly any of the games are unique or has a specific prepared build. The only Koreans that really showed us “prepared” builds were Classic and Rogue
Every pro in the world will choose IEM Katowice over GSL. GSL you can fail and try again next season, whereas you only have one chance at Katowice during the year
Not just that, but it sure looked like Serral had some builds specifically prepared for Maru. He didn't bust out roach rushes against Clem. So what makes it so that Serral can prepare specific builds for Maru in a weekender, but Maru could only do so in the GSL?
On February 15 2024 08:23 FFXthebest wrote: GSL is overrated these days
Preparation is just a good excuse to use when Serral’s stomps the Koreans.
if you watch the GSL’s hardly any of the games are unique or has a specific prepared build. The only Koreans that really showed us “prepared” builds were Classic and Rogue
Every pro in the world will choose IEM Katowice over GSL. GSL you can fail and try again next season, whereas you only have one chance at Katowice during the year
EPT
