EPTNBA Playoffs 2017 - Page 21
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
On May 21 2017 08:58 Jerubaal wrote: Yes, it's up to you to show that he was so head and shoulders above everyone else. So far you've trotted out one stat that nobody considers particularly expansive. In all the rest he is either comparable to the other candidates or behind. the initial thesis statement was "lebron coasted during the regular season". my reply is: "due to lack of evidence this assertion is false". if someone has real video of LBJ fucking around.. lets see it. and lets then compare how much he fucks around to the standard NBA player in the regular season. Then we can assess his "coasting". regarding the stats i present... nobody? troll out? engelmann knows what he is doing. xRAPM is a nice enhancement of the work of by Rosenbaum on adjusted plus/minus from 2006. Rosenbaum has now worked for the Cavs for 10 years since his initial work on adjusted plus minus. its some good work. and again, if u don't like the fancy math of APM and xRAPM you can just grind through the #s on 82games.com LBJ was the best player in the NBA regular season and he also the best player in the world. There are several players pretty close to LBJ in talent. I would not say LBJ is far and away way better than the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best NBA players. I'd say LBJ is somewhat better. So I don't expect him to totally blow away what every other player can do in the NBA. how many games did Cleveland win this year when LBJ didn't play? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
You seem really hung up on this word coasting. I'm starting to feel sorry for JimmiC (whose comment I was originally responding to, as it turns out). If you were feeling contemplative, you might actually consider it a compliment, considering he did produce very near the top. You might also consider that, considering he has two other elite scorers to consider, he really shouldn't try to shoot like Harden or WB, all things considered. Maybe it's not even such a reflection on James himself, but just a testament to the amazing (and peculiar) seasons that Harden and Westbrook had. But all of that does not bear on a MVP race, which is its own sort of artificial thing. But back to the point about whether or not he was the best player, that is not immediately obvious to me. So I'm humbly asking you to give me some concrete examples of what he's doing that's superior to the other candidates. The usual argument for Lebron is that he does it all. Well, Harden and WB seem to have him beat on the offensive side. As for defense, WB and Leonard are ranked highly and even Harden comes in down the list. Defensive stats are suspect, but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence suggesting that he had superior defensive stats. I mentioned earlier that James might look lackluster because he's getting beat by Harden and WB on the offensive side and Leonard on the defensive side. Still, I'd like to see some more concrete evidence from you that he is clearly the best player. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
On May 21 2017 08:53 JimmiC wrote: Yes we all know that, sadly they finished 9th.... they finished the season stronger than anyone in the east. unlike Boston and Toronto they competed successfully against teh elite teams in the league in the 2nd half of the season. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9954 Posts
On May 20 2017 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Cleveland came to Toronto this year on a 3 or 4 game losing streak and the Raptors 1 game out of 1st place in the conference. LBJ was the first guy in the building that day. He willed his team of half-committed bored players to a big win over Toronto that night. During that game LBJ put forth more effort than any other Cavalier. I've seen James play live more than 5 times and every time he is giving 100%. There may be players on Cleveland who were coasting this year.. LBJ was not one of them. RJ's podcast makes it seem like Cavaliers life was a non-stop party during the regular season; LBJ made vague comments to his team mates about dropping "fun projects" and focusing on Basketball. When you go to an LBJ game you'll hear a bit of chatter about "LBJ coasting" amongst casual fans who clearly don't go to many games. This chatter occurs before the game starts. After the game is over there is no coasting chat. i invite the people with their coasting theories to watch LBJ play live. Statistically, Real Plus Minue has LBJ creating over 19 wins with an RPM of 7.76. In the reguar season LBJ was the best player in the NBA. Boxscore stats have limited value. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5 People who think LBJ was coasting didn't watch him play live very much and are misinterpreting limited boxscore stats to evaluate NBA starters. For Starters the various adjusted plus/minus stats are the most complete metrics. Have you seen his defense in the regular season compared to his defense in the playoffs? Night and day. Just look at his stats in the playoffs in general. 35ppg on 56% shooting or whatever he's at. Look at his SPG and BPG. Look at how he challenges people at the rim in a way he rarely ever did in the regular season (why risk getting posterized for a game that doesn't matter). He's clearly flipped a switch and gone super saiyan level for the playoffs and if he was capable of doing that for the playoffs it means he wasn't playing to his potential for the regular season. And I've been to 3 cavs games this season and watched every cavs games on LP. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
On May 21 2017 13:28 BlackJack wrote: Have you seen his defense in the regular season compared to his defense in the playoffs? Night and day. Just look at his stats in the playoffs in general. 35ppg on 56% shooting or whatever he's at. Look at his SPG and BPG. Look at how he challenges people at the rim in a way he rarely ever did in the regular season (why risk getting posterized for a game that doesn't matter). He's clearly flipped a switch and gone super saiyan level for the playoffs and if he was capable of doing that for the playoffs it means he wasn't playing to his potential for the regular season. And I've been to 3 cavs games this season and watched every cavs games on LP. this is the kind of insight i'm looking for to carry the convo forward. a lot of players ramp up their defensive intensity in the playoffs in many sports though. i think LBJ's increase in defensive intensity is about equal to other NBA players for the playoffs. Because LBJ is more talented you notice it more. For example, Terrence Ross and Demar Derozan substantially increased their defensive intensity during the playoffs the last couple of years relative to the regular season. Because their talents as defenders is very low most people won't notice much difference. if you're driving a ferrari there is a big difference in speed between 4th gear and overdrive. if you're driving a toyota prius the difference in speed between 4th gear and overdrive is hard to notice. all that said, it could be that because Toronto has been close to Cleveland in the standings lately i get to see the "extra hard working" LBJ and he fucks the dog against Minnesota, Philly and Brooklyn. When LBJ comes to Toronto he comes to play ball. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12794 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
I have not seen any specific defensive metric that has him ranked highly this year. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
did you watch LBJ in every minute of every game? the only Raptor whose intensity did not go up in the playoffs was Fred Van Vleet. He played like his life was on the line in every Raptor regular season game. Using this standard every Raptor coasted this year. regarding your "selective" comment, any statistic cited is only a slice of reality. on top of that, the statistics that are the most complete require a large quantity of data to be valid. the stats you provided also moved the convo forward..imo. i prefer to combine statistics with personal observations and then add in some logic to come up with my Raptor projections. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19570 Posts
On May 21 2017 12:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i think Simmons showed up for a paid try out for the Spurs D-league team. as in ,,. he had to pay the d-league team. i wouldn't really say he is a d-leaguer though. he belongs in the NBA. Simmons was drafted, he just was on the d league team so he was at the tryouts so they could work him out | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16170 Posts
On May 22 2017 04:10 JimmiC wrote: Your constant "you can't have a opinion unless you watched every minute" gets tiresome. It is one of the many douchey things you say. Not quite as bad as you "pay attention outcomes" catch phrase you tried but still brutal. Also, apply your same logic to yourself please. Only comment on teams and players you watched every minute of, since that was no one (which we proved early in the thread) STFU. Thanks. when did i say one can't have an opinion if one has not watched every minute? here u go making up stuff again. the ironic thing is you end your post with STFU. lol. the more you watch the more observations you have to draw upon. for example, i have a better idea of how good minnesota is because i watched them more than say phoenix. i can give you an opinion about phoenix but it doesn't carry as much weight as it does for minnesota or toronto because i watched those teams more. | ||
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