[BW][Afreeca] Terrans vs Top 4 Zergs on Afreeca - Page 7
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Freakling
Germany1525 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On October 24 2016 01:47 Freakling wrote: So you missed the new ASL maps then? That is, "miss" for lack of a better term, as your points are unfortunately very applicable to them again... If the points are still applicable, then they stole the wrong part of your creations - the naming of one of the maps. | ||
LML
Germany1727 Posts
On October 24 2016 03:09 LRM)TechnicS wrote: If the points are still applicable, then they stole the wrong part of your creations - the naming of one of the maps. Overwatch is a highly popular game, so it's definitely not stolen from his map lol | ||
ortseam
996 Posts
TvZ: 198-180 (52.4%) ZvP: 168-108 (60.9%) PvT: 197-210 (48.4%) Top places per race (1st-2nd): T: 9-10 Z:11-7 P:3-6 | ||
Jealous
10068 Posts
On October 24 2016 04:31 ortseam wrote: Wow can't believe this is still going on, I actually gathered stats from the most important tournaments in 2015-2016 (i started from SSL 10, including all TLPD leagues): TvZ: 198-180 (52.4%) ZvP: 168-108 (60.9%) PvT: 197-210 (48.4%) Top places per race (1st-2nd): T: 9-10 Z:11-7 P:3-6 Yea, TvZ is much worse than ZvP, guys. | ||
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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D_lux
Hungary60 Posts
On October 23 2016 22:24 LRM)TechnicS wrote: I mostly agree with all of this. I really can't comprehend why hydralisks are so good vs P and at the same time so bad vs T. It might be because of hydra damage type, which is explosive. It deals only 50% damage against marines (small) and deals full damage against dragoons (large). Dmg/sec is also higher for marine with stim. Also if the women are around the marines the hydra clearly fails. Dmg/sec is about the same for the dragoon but because the dragoon's dmg type is also explosive it only deals75% damage against the hydra. The hydra does good against goons. I know there are more units in terran and protoss for the hydra to fight and im really bad at bw, so i dont really know any deep strategic arguments for why the hydra is bad against terran and good against p. If you want to you can check out the other units' dmg type and size and maybe it will reveal more about this. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Damage_Type | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On October 24 2016 03:22 LML wrote: Overwatch is a highly popular game, so it's definitely not stolen from his map lol lol, of course they did not stole anything from Freaklingzerg. | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On October 24 2016 04:31 ortseam wrote: Wow can't believe this is still going on, I actually gathered stats from the most important tournaments in 2015-2016 (i started from SSL 10, including all TLPD leagues): TvZ: 198-180 (52.4%) ZvP: 168-108 (60.9%) PvT: 197-210 (48.4%) Top places per race (1st-2nd): T: 9-10 Z:11-7 P:3-6 Throughout the years, in my eyes, most tournaments were consisted of mostly terrans and zergs with very few protoss players. Also, to my knowledge, historically protosses are the least successful in obtaining major tournament top 1 titles. They don't even have a bonjwa. But it is somewhat comforting to have 2 protosses next to only 1 z and 1 t in the TaekBangLeeSsang. But I can't defend protosses for their weaknesess as heartedly as zergs for the supposed ZvT imbalance. Most probably that is because I haven't been playing so much PvZ throughout the years. I've had plenty of ZvT (and it's never enough) though. And I really like to offrace PvZ. I used to offrace PvZ vs the bulgarian terran LameR a lot before and he was genuinely advicing me to switch to P. Perhaps i should have listened. | ||
Freakling
Germany1525 Posts
The reason Hydras rather suffer against Terran are: 1. against bio they are just not cost-efficient most of the time, as they deal less DPS than Zerglings or Marines, but for a much higher resource tag. Against mech, on the other hand, their medium unit size means they take significant damage from both tanks (die to one full plus one splash hit if tanks have +1 weapons or higher) and Vultures (not to mention mines...). They eat Goliaths for breakfast though, but you'll rarely see a pure Goliath army. Protoss simply do not have that instakill-potential in their base army composition. That's why they need storm and/or Reavers to fight Hydras. | ||
aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3689 Posts
You have to watch that FlaSh vs Effort game! Watch them in new windows, synced, on top of each-other, and Alt+Tab between them: Effort: FlaSh: + Show Spoiler [result] + WAT So THAT is what it takes to beat FlaSh in ZvT? 450apm madness. Multiple engagements allday erryday! Look at how Effort is panting after it's over. My favorite bits are when Effort prepares and instantly splits his mutas, and when he diffuses the mine at his 3rd USING A NYDUS | ||
ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On October 24 2016 09:02 bITt.mAN wrote: Holy Moly! You have to watch that FlaSh vs Effort game! Watch them in new windows, synced, on top of each-other, and Alt+Tab between them: Effort: https://youtu.be/GUrvEFjXrp4?t=2130 FlaSh: https://youtu.be/sIXE7sESpOY?t=2137 + Show Spoiler [result] + WAT So THAT is what it takes to beat FlaSh in ZvT? 450apm madness. Multiple engagements allday erryday! Look at how Effort is panting after it's over. My favorite bits are when Effort prepares and instantly splits his mutas, and when he diffuses the mine at his 3rd USING A NYDUS timestamp? | ||
neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On October 24 2016 09:02 bITt.mAN wrote: Holy Moly! You have to watch that FlaSh vs Effort game! Watch them in new windows, synced, on top of each-other, and Alt+Tab between them: Effort: https://youtu.be/GUrvEFjXrp4?t=2130 FlaSh: https://youtu.be/sIXE7sESpOY?t=2137 + Show Spoiler [result] + WAT So THAT is what it takes to beat FlaSh in ZvT? 450apm madness. Multiple engagements allday erryday! Look at how Effort is panting after it's over. My favorite bits are when Effort prepares and instantly splits his mutas, and when he diffuses the mine at his 3rd USING A NYDUS Wow, that was incredible. + Show Spoiler [result] + Watching the early bunker fight on both ends was taxing, haha. I thought the split engagement by Flash into the nat and the 3rd gas at the same time would finish the game but some super great timing by Effort, bringing the mutas in right as the zerglings spawn and the cleanup on the other end with the mutas. Effort seemed really insistent on the guardians. He made some more even after the first batch died to harass the bottom left. It didn't seem to be that effective though. The slow push-out of the vultures from Effort's fourth was really impressive. I would've lost my mind trying to do that. Looks like the thing that did Flash in was the end was the big two-way push by Effort, getting the timing where Flash was bringing reinforcements to the bottom left through the 6 o clock. Splitting the forces and engaging in seperate areas before the bottom left production could kick in was really cool. What a game. | ||
zaMNal
Mongolia384 Posts
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Jealous
10068 Posts
35:40ish on Effort 35:50ish on Flash's (assuming the first game is the one in question) | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Piste
6162 Posts
On October 24 2016 05:26 B-royal wrote: Really? Bisu gets a 70% win rate, the other guys (protosses) aren't up to par at all. On the other hand, Effort, Hero and Zero are literally the BEST zergs in the world. So you're saying Protoss also is imba vs zergs? | ||
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Problem is I don't have any of the details (how many games are versus larva, is it all on fighting spirit,...). I'm also not trying to make any generalizing statements here. I just believe that if one protoss player can get a 70% win rate in PvZ versus the best zergs in the world, there's not much of an issue in the match up. But then when you see the win rates of the best zergs in the world vs average pro terrans (sub 50% for hero one month, and almost all of the months they can't even break the 60% mark), I believe this to be more alarming. Aside from zero who figured out some ultralisk drop timing one month (I believe that was the cause, don't quote me on it), I don't think a zerg has gotten a 70% win rate versus terrans in a long time. edit: I also don't want to continue talking about balance issues since it's ultimately pointless anyway and only detrimental to your own psyche and improving. | ||
Dante08
Singapore4108 Posts
Also discussing balance in the perspective of your own playing experience is totally irrelevant. I play Terran and struggle against Zergs who know how to defend their 3rd properly. Obviously that does not mean Zerg is imbalanced as I know I have a lot of areas to improve in. If everyone started talking about balance outside the Korean scene Protoss would be the most imbalanced race. 1 thing I do agree Terran has a lot more build options vs Zerg. But then again any good Zerg knows how to scout and deflect it relatively easily. If you want to talk about balance why not focus on maps? Like how FS is Terran favoured, easy access to a 3rd, short rush distances between bases, map can be easily split in half without covering a lot of distance. It's 2016, I think you've played this game long enough to know skill beats racial imbalance all day. | ||
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