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On March 10 2015 05:20 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:15 OtherWorld wrote:On March 10 2015 05:12 Fran_ wrote: DH removed from my watch list. Because they removed SC2 from one single event? Yay, SC2 community so mature and respectful amirite Yes, I'm only interested in SC2, so please explain me why it's immature and not respectful to remove from my watch list an event that does not show it. I did not call any name. Ah sorry, I thought you meant DH as in "every DH" and not "DH:Bucharest"
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It's fine, no sc2 no viewership from me. Enough people follow suit and they will take notice.
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On March 10 2015 05:08 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 04:37 Footler wrote: Perhaps someone can enlighten me but is SC2 viewership really that bad? The numbers seem fairly consistent for the premier tournaments and even at this moment I can look to the sidebar and see about ~10k viewers for the group stage of a major tournament on a Monday. We just don't have that foreign hope that everyone either loves/hates. SC2 used to be top 3 or 4 on twitch but in my opinion over time, Koreans constantly winning WCS "NA" or "EU", along with other big foreign tournaments, really spelled the end of the profitability for these companies as it relates to SC2. It's not that we don't like Koreans (this season GSL might be my favorite, minus Life's royal road in 2012), it's just that foreigners can't win anything, and it's really hard to build a fanbase off the the notion "well i'm the best foreigner, come to the tournament and watch me get ro16!". In my mind, this is why Blizzard changed WCS this year. Still, even with the changes, Koreans will still probably win NA and EU. But hey, more foreigners are at least making the live show, so that's a start.
Ya but I believe viewership has stayed the same for SC2. It's just other games boomed in viewership. Correct?
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On March 10 2015 05:22 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:20 Fran_ wrote:On March 10 2015 05:15 OtherWorld wrote:On March 10 2015 05:12 Fran_ wrote: DH removed from my watch list. Because they removed SC2 from one single event? Yay, SC2 community so mature and respectful amirite Yes, I'm only interested in SC2, so please explain me why it's immature and not respectful to remove from my watch list an event that does not show it. I did not call any name. Ah sorry, I thought you meant DH as in "every DH" and not "DH:Bucharest"
Understood. I will also remove any other DH that does not show it of course.
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On March 10 2015 05:25 Footler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:08 Ctone23 wrote:On March 10 2015 04:37 Footler wrote: Perhaps someone can enlighten me but is SC2 viewership really that bad? The numbers seem fairly consistent for the premier tournaments and even at this moment I can look to the sidebar and see about ~10k viewers for the group stage of a major tournament on a Monday. We just don't have that foreign hope that everyone either loves/hates. SC2 used to be top 3 or 4 on twitch but in my opinion over time, Koreans constantly winning WCS "NA" or "EU", along with other big foreign tournaments, really spelled the end of the profitability for these companies as it relates to SC2. It's not that we don't like Koreans (this season GSL might be my favorite, minus Life's royal road in 2012), it's just that foreigners can't win anything, and it's really hard to build a fanbase off the the notion "well i'm the best foreigner, come to the tournament and watch me get ro16!". In my mind, this is why Blizzard changed WCS this year. Still, even with the changes, Koreans will still probably win NA and EU. But hey, more foreigners are at least making the live show, so that's a start. Ya but I believe viewership has stayed the same for SC2. It's just other games boomed in viewership. Correct?
Sc2 viewership is lower than it has been in the past. I remember when in the middle of BL-infestor era , wcs europe finals made 100k viewers.
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well sucks for sc2 players but i personally don't care too much about dh since they let go of ohlen.
also they can't even write the name of the most successful multiplayer game atm. "League of Leagends" ok.
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On March 10 2015 05:25 Footler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:08 Ctone23 wrote:On March 10 2015 04:37 Footler wrote: Perhaps someone can enlighten me but is SC2 viewership really that bad? The numbers seem fairly consistent for the premier tournaments and even at this moment I can look to the sidebar and see about ~10k viewers for the group stage of a major tournament on a Monday. We just don't have that foreign hope that everyone either loves/hates. SC2 used to be top 3 or 4 on twitch but in my opinion over time, Koreans constantly winning WCS "NA" or "EU", along with other big foreign tournaments, really spelled the end of the profitability for these companies as it relates to SC2. It's not that we don't like Koreans (this season GSL might be my favorite, minus Life's royal road in 2012), it's just that foreigners can't win anything, and it's really hard to build a fanbase off the the notion "well i'm the best foreigner, come to the tournament and watch me get ro16!". In my mind, this is why Blizzard changed WCS this year. Still, even with the changes, Koreans will still probably win NA and EU. But hey, more foreigners are at least making the live show, so that's a start. Ya but I believe viewership has stayed the same for SC2. It's just other games boomed in viewership. Correct?
Someone else who knows the viewer counts could answer that better. In my speculation, it has dropped overall. The tournaments seem to do alright, but not necessarily great either. Big name foreigners are non-existent so you no longer see the 10-12k streams that Idra and Stephano used to have back in their hay day. That being said the twitch platform has improved a lot the past few years and i'm sure the overall viewership of twitch has exploded.
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Man, I really liked DH SC2 events. Losing Bucharest sucks!
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On March 10 2015 03:31 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 03:21 TurboMaN wrote:On March 10 2015 02:30 GodZo wrote:On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past. Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game. The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass. Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self. Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
When StarCraft came out the bigger events were the FPS games. Quake tournaments had more interest and way bigger prizes (like $100k for first, Ferrari for first compared to SC which had $10k for first in its first two PGL tournaments) and the i2e2 circuit that replaced PGL had Quake and Broodwar, but Quake seemed to be favored there too. It wasn't until Korea happened after the KBK tournament that there was a full professional esports scene.
Now there are more options and more diversity, but there is also way more money involved across the board. StarCraft 2 has had a good run and is still going and surely will at least get some bump when LotV comes out...probably nothing like the original excitement, but still it will bring some freshness to the scene.
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On March 10 2015 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:25 Footler wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Ctone23 wrote:On March 10 2015 04:37 Footler wrote: Perhaps someone can enlighten me but is SC2 viewership really that bad? The numbers seem fairly consistent for the premier tournaments and even at this moment I can look to the sidebar and see about ~10k viewers for the group stage of a major tournament on a Monday. We just don't have that foreign hope that everyone either loves/hates. SC2 used to be top 3 or 4 on twitch but in my opinion over time, Koreans constantly winning WCS "NA" or "EU", along with other big foreign tournaments, really spelled the end of the profitability for these companies as it relates to SC2. It's not that we don't like Koreans (this season GSL might be my favorite, minus Life's royal road in 2012), it's just that foreigners can't win anything, and it's really hard to build a fanbase off the the notion "well i'm the best foreigner, come to the tournament and watch me get ro16!". In my mind, this is why Blizzard changed WCS this year. Still, even with the changes, Koreans will still probably win NA and EU. But hey, more foreigners are at least making the live show, so that's a start. Ya but I believe viewership has stayed the same for SC2. It's just other games boomed in viewership. Correct? Sc2 viewership is lower than it has been in the past. I remember when in the middle of BL-infestor era , wcs europe finals made 100k viewers. Okay, so after some research. Viewership is down from that era but it seems to have mostly leveled off now with global finals doing quite well.
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Why are people so angry? It's natural for a game with lesser viewership to be replaced. People are so angry, saying things like that the newer generation are too lazy, when the simple truth is that simply put, SC2 just isn't interesting or fun enough to hold the interest of the general gaming population. That SC2 is more mechanically demanding and defeat is harsher is irrelevant.
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That's what happens when you remove the 1 guy with passion for the game. Sucks. I won't be watching.
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On March 10 2015 04:06 TaShadan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 03:31 Sub40APM wrote:On March 10 2015 03:21 TurboMaN wrote:On March 10 2015 02:30 GodZo wrote:On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past. Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game. The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass. Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self. Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games. I doubt that. The player scene and their affinity to certain genres was different. I actually know a lot of oldschool players really disliking moba games. I am not saying people who were pros in BW would be pros in LoL in 98, I am saying that the fan base for LoL would dwarf BW so badly that there would be no BW culture as people know it.
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Well DH is dead to me then....
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Lorning
Belgica34430 Posts
On March 10 2015 06:03 Weavel wrote: Well DH is dead to me then.... But it's still going to be at DH France
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On March 10 2015 05:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Why are people so angry? It's natural for a game with lesser viewership to be replaced. People are so angry, saying things like that the newer generation are too lazy, when the simple truth is that simply put, SC2 just isn't interesting or fun enough to hold the interest of the general gaming population. That SC2 is more mechanically demanding and defeat is harsher is irrelevant.
Speak for yourself, bucko. It's simple. Like, 80% of the population is retarded. Like, at least 80%. It only makes sense that a game as beautiful and challenging as SC2 won't be very popular. Just like jazz.
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Well this kinda sucks but at least it proves that we are of higher class and have better taste in competitive games than others. We're the proverbial "cool kids".
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Letting Robert Ohlen go was that biggest fucking mistake Dreamhack could've possibly made...
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On March 10 2015 06:22 SC2Towelie wrote: Letting Robert Ohlen go was that biggest fucking mistake Dreamhack could've possibly made...
if Dreamhack somehow gets more viewers, more advertisements, more $$$, from choosing minecraft over SC2, then did they make a mistake?
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