Gamergate and video game journalism - Page 3

On October 15 2014 16:01 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
It isn't just about harassment and sexist threats, but also about advocating for honest journalism. Its unfortunate that the noble goal of honesty is maligned into death threats and sexist remarks.

On October 15 2014 18:45 Tyrran wrote:
Stuff

On October 15 2014 18:45 Tyrran wrote:
I'm going to give OP the benefit of doubt, and assumes he really doesnt know anything about GamerGate, and is not just trying to make it sound positive, because -spoiler alert- it's really not.



Nope. Gamergate has never been about advocating for honest journalism. It has only and ever been about harassing women in the game industry. "Honest Journalism" is only an excuse they gave, but they really dont care about it.

Corruption in game journalism exist. Youtubers are paid by the game industry to give good review. Reviewing magazines only have pre-access to certain game if they agree to give it a good review ( Doesnt mean the game is really bad. Batman: Arkham Asyleum was only available for review if you agreed to rate it 90%+ ). Do gamerGate condem/insult these companies : Nope.

But they do care about Zoe Quinn and women in general, because they have the option of dating/ having sex with other people in the industry ( spoiler alert 2 : Women are free to have sex with whoever they want, there is NO PROOF she 'bougth' a good review with sex). The only guy at fault here is the journalist that decided to review a game made by a women he slept with, because obvious conflict of interest. But once again GG doesnt care about that. Its all ZoeQuinn's and women fault for corrupting our pure industry ( this is sarcasm).

Not to mention that Zoe Quinn's "Corruption" ( I honestly doubt there was even one) would be one of the most INSIGNIFICANT corruption of the gaming industry journalism to date. The mere fact that GamerGate keeps targeting women and not EA/Activision/Ubisoft/Game review website proves that they dont care about coruption at all.

TL:DR : GamerGate is a pure mysoginist movement with no other aim than harrassing women out of the video game industry. "Journalism integrity" is a mere excuse, they dont really care about it at all.

On October 15 2014 18:45 Tyrran wrote:
stuff

On October 15 2014 18:45 Tyrran wrote:
I'm going to give OP the benefit of doubt, and assumes he really doesnt know anything about GamerGate, and is not just trying to make it sound positive, because -spoiler alert- it's really not.



Nope. Gamergate has never been about advocating for honest journalism. It has only and ever been about harassing women in the game industry. "Honest Journalism" is only an excuse they gave, but they really dont care about it.

Corruption in game journalism exist. Youtubers are paid by the game industry to give good review. Reviewing magazines only have pre-access to certain game if they agree to give it a good review ( Doesnt mean the game is really bad. Batman: Arkham Asyleum was only available for review if you agreed to rate it 90%+ ). Do gamerGate condem/insult these companies : Nope.

But they do care about Zoe Quinn and women in general, because they have the option of dating/ having sex with other people in the industry ( spoiler alert 2 : Women are free to have sex with whoever they want, there is NO PROOF she 'bougth' a good review with sex). The only guy at fault here is the journalist that decided to review a game made by a women he slept with, because obvious conflict of interest. But once again GG doesnt care about that. Its all ZoeQuinn's and women fault for corrupting our pure industry ( this is sarcasm).

Not to mention that Zoe Quinn's "Corruption" ( I honestly doubt there was even one) would be one of the most INSIGNIFICANT corruption of the gaming industry journalism to date. The mere fact that GamerGate keeps targeting women and not EA/Activision/Ubisoft/Game review website proves that they dont care about coruption at all.

TL:DR : GamerGate is a pure mysoginist movement with no other aim than harrassing women out of the video game industry. "Journalism integrity" is a mere excuse, they dont really care about it at all.

On October 15 2014 18:51 Gowerly wrote:


This is entirely the issue in my previous post. This person here has seen (most likely on the media that are pushing it down their throat) the message that they want them to see.

GamerGate is nothing about this in the slightest. Some people have taken it upon themselves as a crusade, but they are not what the movement is or should be about.

This is exactly what I was mentioning. The media and, as such, this person here has branded an ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE based on the actions of a loud, dangerous minority from within it. Most likely any further research (I even linked a video! - The idea that it's against women is ridiculous, we raised $70k for women to make game content and NO NEWS SITE MENTIONED THAT!) was just not done, because it's drowned out by the multitude of "HAY THIS GROUP IS DANGER AND EVIL AND IF YOU DON'T THINK SO YOU HATE WOMEN YOU SCUM" posts and articles on the matter.

Yes, some people have done shitty things under the banner. For the same reason we laugh what 4chan is labeled a hate group, I laugh at the idea that GG is sexism. 100% of what the group was about was the idea that we want the better journalists to do well. That's it. Anything else is someone else's agenda and I'll thank you to not tar the group with the brush you bought from the media store.

On October 15 2014 17:20 Frogstomp wrote:
You've outlined the genesis of the controversy; however, I'd say it has since metastasized into a monster of its own. I would suggest reading through the following articles to get a better grip on the scandal, the people involved, and what has been happening more recently.

Gamergate Explained


That being said, if gamergate was really about ethics, the main female targets wouldn't be going through what they are going through. Plenty of communities experience ethical debates or even scandals without those at the center of the debates being forced from their homes

Misogyny and Gamergate


Which isn't to say that there are legitimate ethical concerns in the gaming journalism industry. It's just that most of them don't involve gender or sexual favors. If you're interested in learning about some of those concerns, check out this:

List of Ethical Concerns in Videogaming

On October 15 2014 19:12 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:

I am not sure if you are referring to me when you say "This person here has seen", but I am not trying to see any messages, or spout any message of my own. I truly want to understand this problem.

I read your previous post, and would like to reply.

I agree that only a part of the movement is in the "misogynist" group, and maybe a larger part is actually advocating for journalistic integrity. I don't know either way though, because I only learned of this gamergate today.

The video you posted offered a lot of insight, but I want to comment on the last part.

You can't ignore the fact that gamergate was used as a tool to spread violence and hate. Whether this was done by a radical group, or majority vote is entirely debatable. The videos last comment to laugh at the face of others who think gamergate is about misogynist is quite rude and abrasive. Essentially that video wants you to totally disregard the horrible actions done to Zoe Quinn.

Is gamergate about journalism integrity or misogyny? I don't know yet, but that video didn't particularly sway me either way.

On October 15 2014 19:17 Galika wrote:


You are linking to articles written by the parent website of polygon.com, a gaming site that released one of those horribly generalizing articles about gamers/gamer culture. Also linking to Leigh Alexanders own website. This person wrote the most controversial article about gamers on Gamasutra.com and said pretty nasty stuff on Twitter about people just calling for better ethics in journalism. Gamasutra is also the website Intel pulled it's adds from after consumers rightfully complained about that piece.
So yeah not really unbiased sources you have there.

Stuff to watch about #GG:

GamerGate in 60 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +

Talk with Total Biscuit, Greg Tito (Editor in Chief of the Escapist, the website that allows for #GG discussion in their forum, though people opposing GamerGate often flame him for allowing discussion on that subject, even other journalists), Janelle Bonnano (Editor in Chief of GameFront)
+ Show Spoiler +

I also recommend watching the beginning of The Late Game Episode 4.

Keep in mind that those videos are not up to date anymore because many more things happened in the past weeks. But it will give you a general idea.

And please, please keep in mind: Don't condemn a whole movement because of the actions of a few. Mainstream media and pro 3rd wave feminism gaming websites like Polygon and Kotaku do this because it fits their narrative/agenda. The people of #GG actually emphasize to stay civil and call out harassment when they see it.

After participating a bit in #GG and #notyourshield, a hashtag about minority gamers siding with #GG - look it up, I try to stay out of this mess because I have to concrentrate on more important stuff IRL.
But there is something worth fighting for and true about #GG. Yes I support women in the games industry and yes I want to see more female protagonists.
But I don't support people pointing out the obvious and get a fuck ton of money and praise for that (Anita Sarkeesian) and I don't want to be silenced critizising that. I don't want to have a shaming culture in gaming that wants to prevent games like Bayonetta or Dragons Crown to be made. I don't want journalists to donate to developers and then write articles about their games without a disclosure concerning that. I don't want to be told how oppressed I am as a female gamer every two weeks and I don't want all my fellow male gamers to be painted as misogynists - this generalizations need to fucking stop. I mean yes I too have encountered some nasty messages while playing that insult me because of my gender. But you know what: It is the fucking Internet. They would probably insult me for another reason when I'd be a man. Just learn to not care about trolls and BM people.
What I value more is visiting gaming/eSports conventions. Because there I see the people who enjoy the same interest as me in real fucking life. And what did I encounter? Kind, welcoming and passionate people. That is how I see gamer culture.

Ok fuck it, I could go on and on and on... I just wanted to say: Be carefull whose stuff you read/watch about this subject. There are really smart and honest people in #GG who have good arguments/intentions. Sadly, I don't have the energy to help them, so I walked away. This is probably the last post I will write about GamerGate.

One lesson I learned the last couple of months: I don't want to call myself a feminist anymore.

That is all.

On October 15 2014 19:25 Gowerly wrote:

I meant the person I quoted.
I can't ignore the fact that gamergate was used as a tool to spread violence, true.
I can't ignore that in the past other seemingly peaceful and progressive ideas have been used in the same way. You DO NOT tar the message with those that take it to the extreme.
It's made it really convenient for the gaming sites that the movement was trying to hold accountable to just squash it with the notion that "You wouldn't want to side with these sexist morons, would you?"

On October 15 2014 19:23 SatedSC2 wrote:
Misogyny is bad. This is obvious.

Lying in reviews is bad. This is also obvious.

Violent threats are bad. Also obvious.

Perpetuating the stereotype that gamers are somehow linked by anything other than a common hobby is bad. Obvious.

Nothing about this debate is productive because both sides are ignoring the obvious points made by the other.

This whole debate is bad. This is super fucking obvious.

#JustPlayGames

It's obvious now that almost no one, other than the self-righteous Gamergate crusaders, are delusional enough to believe that Gamergate is about "journalistic ethics". That's just a cover, a scapegoat, to hide what is actually clearly an anti-feminism agenda. Even the mainstream media has caught on. It's a common, but completely unconvincing argument, that the anti-feminism agenda, the harassment and death threats against women is merely some fringe group, or that it's unrelated to Gamergate. What defines Gamergate? If I now tweet that: "tea is better than coffee #gamergate", does this mean that Gamergate is about the superiority of tea over coffee? Of course not, what defines Gamergate is the overarching themes and main topics of discussion by its supporters. And the overwhelming volume of tweets and posts about Gamergate, on Twitter and even on this forum is an anti-feminism agenda masquerading as a movement about "journalistic ethics". The discussion is almost entirely about attacking women and "SJWs".

It's also obvious why such a smokescreen is needed. If Gamergate portrayed itself as the anti-feminism agenda that it really is, it would be savaged. Instead they need to create a diversion, that being a movement for "journalistic ethics". But to keep up this phony pretense has stretched the bounds of credulity so far that it can only believed by the misinformed or the most naive Gamergate supporters who want more ethical games journalism while engaging in the most intense form of wishful thinking that Gamergate is a pure movement for exactly that. In reality, this is bullshit.

The evidence is overwhelming. Gamergate originated with a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn who was alleged to have traded sex for a favorable review of her game. Leaving aside the fact that this review doesn't exist, it was Quinn who was harassed and received death threats, not any corrupt games journalists. This was followed by harassment and death threats against Anita Sarkeesian for her videos exposing sexist depictions of female characters in video games. Recently, Brianna Wu was also harassed and received death threats for mocking Gamergate. Rather than condemning these attacks, much of Gamergate is more concerned with concocting conspiracy theories that these attacks are faked and attempts at victim blaming by insisting that these women deserved it. Furthermore, Gamergate only discusses "journalistic ethics" insofar as it relates to feminism and attacking "SJWs". For example, there is no concern from Gamergate about journalistic ethics relating to trashy hype articles or giving positive reviews to advertisers. Is this a coincidence? No. It's perfectly transparent: such concerns about "journalistic ethics" doesn't advance their anti-feminism agenda, while selectively attacking journalists and women who they label as "SJWs" does. If Gamergate is about "journalistic ethics", then why aren't corrupt games journalists receiving serious death threats?

But not only is Gamergate hiding behind a phony lie about "journalistic ethics", it also consists of people who have absolutely no idea what they want. Consider the Gamergate campaign that targeted Intel to pull their advertising off Gamasutra for publishing an article from Leigh Alexander that attacked gaming culture. For a bunch of people who are so concerned with journalistic ethics, one would expect them to understand that the article reflects the opinion of the author, not the publisher. The New York Times, the most Pulitzer Prize winning newspaper, the paragon of journalistic excellence, published an article by Vladmir Putin on the Syrian War. By the nonsense logic of the Gamergate mob, this implies that the NYT supports Putin, despite the fact that Putin up to that point had actively assisted the Assad regime who used chemical weapons against its own people, bombed Georgia in 2008 and seized it's territory, and would later go on to annex Crimea and gift Ukrainian rebels with a missile that shot down MH17. So all advertisers should boycott the NYT for publishing this article from an imperialist who shares responsibility for the atrocities committed by the Assad regime? The absurdity of this argument shows that Gamergate, while pretending to care about journalistic ethics, doesn't understand the first thing about journalism. Therefore, Gamergate is also filled with literally clueless morons.

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1577712-GamerGate-Corruption-in-Video-Game-Journalism-(Thread-Guidelines-in-OP)?p=30010721&viewfull=1#post30010721

On October 15 2014 19:45 paralleluniverse wrote:
The OP is misinformed about Gamergate.

I posted this on the MMO-Champion forum yesterday:

On October 15 2014 19:47 SatedSC2 wrote:
We just need to go back to playing games and let it die.

On October 15 2014 19:47 SatedSC2 wrote:

It is that simple.

None of the points either side have made are interesting or new. All this debate is doing is making the people heavily involved in either #GamerGate or #StopGamerGate look like petty cunts and this is a shame because the majority of these people are only interested in one of the self-evident points I mentioned. Gowerly would be a good example; only interested in the journalism side of this and yet seemingly lumped in with a load of misogynistic twats. People on both sides eventually just end up lumped in with misogyny or other such stereotyping by members of the other side, none of which is productive and none of which is conductive to an actual debate. Nothing will get solved by this debacle.

The whole thing is stupid in the extreme.

We need to go back to playing games and let it die.