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ESPORTS! Progaming and Mental Health
I think this is a big problem and was always surprised that it was never really brought up.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/LeaderboardAdblock.png)
"Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss"
As a member of this forum, I was just like you guys, an avid ESports enthusiast.
ESports is great, its different, its a battle of great wits and reflex. Before ESports the only thing that came close was chess. The best part about to it is that almost anyone can relate to a programer, he does not look like your local jock out of a frat house with freakish physical traits, tonnes of money, good looks and all the babes. They are nerds, just like us.
I used to go to meets and watch a spectacular series of mindgames unfold between the gang of four, the TaekBangLeeSsang. Then SC2 came out and I attended some barcrafts, and now I spend most of my ESports viewing on Dota.
When I watched ESports grow, I had the highest hopes, but now I'm not so sure. There are several big red flags I see within the whole scene.
The biggest issue I have with ESports is this, Gaming is not really conducive to any kinds of activity that curb mental health problems, they instead, exacerbate them. We are stuck at our desks for hours on end, getting frustrated at our opponents, we diet on hotpockets, and rarely do we socialise outside from this.
I am a person with pretty poor mental health, of who's condition doesn't really fit in any kind of box. I have scored highly in anxiety, mania, schizophrenia, and dissociation, with telltale cases of bipolar and anhedonia. Unlike most tests you want to score low, not high in these  . I could go on and on about this, but for now this is all that is required to say that I know what its like to be in the shoes of someone who has mental illness and no I did not self-diagnose.
The reason I am bringing this to light is that there was a relationship between my episodes of great depression and lack of these activities. On the surface I seemed incredibly fit, I was going out, going to the gym 3 times a week, had a job, relationship, etc. I would fill the gaps with gaming, probably less than most of the TL'ers here. If you knew me as a casual acquaintance you would probably have no idea that I had any issues at all.
However for someone of my mental capacity this wasn't enough and I would think that almost nobody here cares for their body enough. I was always pretty flat in mood, but one day I had an episode and everything came crashing down at once, I lost my job, my relationship was destroyed, I became addicted to drugs, I had to decline invitations to parties, etc because I would just burst into tears at the drop of a hat, I just wanted to walk in front of a train and let it all end. This had happened a couple of times before.
The atmosphere on gaming forums I find are far more toxic than casual forums, people are venting out their frustration on other users (depression), their point of view is vitally important to them (low self-esteem), the desperation in girl blogs (anxiety), etc.
The reason I call this the Elephant in the Room, is that many gamers ignore mental health issues because they think its normal. When people surround themselves with the same issues, they will inevitably think there is nothing wrong with them. Once I recovered from depression, people who have it stick out like a sore thumb. I could estimate that there is a much higher percentage of mentally ill people gaming forums than there are non-gamers.
In the end our stone age brains weren't designed for this. Neurons vital to creating emotional stimuli in our brain shutdown, because we simply don't use them anymore. We spend so much time having shit flashing in front of our faces every second that we can't live without it. We have higher blood pressure in 50% of our games that we can't even help the result of.
Without the excercise, the stress caused by loss is not offset by the release of stress reducing hormones caused by the activity. Without navigation, neurons in the hippocampus shutdown causing us to have issues with memory and emotional stimulation. The deltafosb in our brain makes it impossible for us to be productive outside of gaming. It is no wonder half of us are a bunch of sour pricks.
Sure there are some people out there that can sit in front of a screen 12 hours a day without problem, but I'd say that this is a small minority. Flash had terrible depression, Nony has depression, Fluff's posts are indicative of manic episodes possibly bipolar, IdrA and many others had anger management issues. I can't imagine what it would be like to be someone of Flash's affliction but then not making it as far as he did. Just look at the difference between the IdrA as a progamer and the IdrA now, he is almost a changed man.
While these people have tendencies towards that kind of behaviour, solid gaming for hours on end will inevitably push these problems to bigger extremes.
I do not have articles right now but I know for a fact that the following behaviours can cause illness even in the most normal people.
* Lack of Vitamin D, due to lack of exposure to sunlight
* Lack of Social Interaction (think of solitary confinement)
* Lack of Exercise
* Poor Diet
Now for all of these things, it does not mean if you spend 10 minutes a day out in the sun, talk to your friends a few times a week, go jogging and eat some vegetables you will be instantly cured
For me it wasn't until I took it to the extreme that I started feeling better. I moved out of a single bed apartment and moved in with my friends. I took up boxing and I train at least an hour every day, 3 times a week I will train for a guaranteed 2 hours at high intensity. I spend more time going out and talking to people. I take Vitamin D tablets if I haven't been outside much that day, and supplement a lot if I'm going full IIFYM. I also do autogenic training 3 times a day for relaxation.
This was what it took to just feel better but maybe I am also an extreme example.
I am not saying everyone should stop gaming altogether. I still spend copious amounts of time in front of the computer, still more than I should. However life is about balance, get some sun, do some exercise, relaxation, and spend more time talking to people.
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Counter Arguments
Correlation does not equal Causation
Perhaps people with mental illness are drawn to gaming. I don't doubt that at all either, its probably true. However what I am trying to say is that for these people, gaming is probably not doing them any good.
But X Article said Gaming has positive benefits
Maybe such as this one. http://www.progamingleague.com/blog/pages/7-health-benefits-of-gaming
As a person who himself is mentally ill, I found that too much gaming had a negative impact on my life. What changed my life was going outside a lot, meeting friends a lot, and doing a shitload of excercise. What did not help at all was more gaming...
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If you are looking on ways to improve your mental health try these things
If you find yourself having difficulty maintaining energy levels, unmotivated to do anything, you may have depression, possibly anhedonia. Anhedonia is often caused when neurons in the Hippocampus shut down, in order to get this back in order you should do a lot of exercise that involves exploration or navigation. Try to avoid using a GPS. Going running or cycling a lot is good enough, not on the treadmill, but outside on the trails, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia
If you find your happiness lacking, often irritable, you may have depression. High intensity exercise every day would be very beneficial. Weightlifting doesn't really cut it, it has to hit you aerobically very hard and get your heart rate up. Yes it sucks if your an ecto with a small stomach, I am too, just eat more.
If you find yourself being a bit obsessive over small issues, especially involving other people, such as unresponded to texts, trouble sleeping, etc, you might have anxiety. OCD for example is an anxiety disorder. Relaxation is a very good idea.
For me Autogenics has had the greatest effect, probably because of its scientific background its much easier to understand. However being good at yoga and meditation should have similar effects. Do this a few times a day, you can even use it to get to sleep.
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/autogen.htm
The later phase of autogenics involves self-hypnosis, and is great for boosting self-esteem and concentration.
Most important of all, set boundaries in your environment and be self-aware. Stay away from activities that you know may inevitably cause you pain, even if they are desirable at first. IdrA did this with progaming, and look at him now, he is almost a changed man. Once you have some self control you can always revisit it later.
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Hopefully I am able to start a meaningful discussion about this.
I am not saying the goals of becoming a progamer is wrong, however I think there exists issues that do not exist in physical sports that need to be addressed. We are all young and naive, and may not figure this out until its too late.
It would be nice to have some sort of framework that young aspiring progamers can use to keep unnecessary problems at bay. Such as a routine of physical exercise and supplements.
Depression is a very real issue, and can even cause progamers to make it impossible to train or even quit, this should be enough reason that it becomes something of importance.
Feel free to discuss.
 
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
* Lack of Vitamin D, due to lack of exposure to sunlight
* Lack of Social Interaction (think of solitary confinement)
* Lack of Exercise
* Poor Diet
hey look its me
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I'm not sure what you are talking about. Professional or casual gaming?
As for casual gaming it's pretty simple, it's the amount that matters.
Professional is more complicated, because players literally dedicate their life to the game. Playing the game is all they know, when they fail it hits much harder. This is actually a concern I share with you. As much as I enjoy watching eSports, all these players making huge sacrifices is kinda insane. Especially for the ones that don't make it to the top.
I'm not sure how it's connected to depression though. It's hard to pinpoint the primary cause, especially since a lot of progaming teams do actually exercise regularly, which is a point you brought up. But players would definitely benefit if the scene was more stable, with better "infrastructure" where they would be more supplied with what they need, like psychological assistance.
Not quite sure what else to say since I'm not sure where you wanna go with this post.
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On June 15 2014 21:51 Split. wrote:
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Professional or casual gaming?
As for casual gaming it's pretty simple, it's the amount that matters.
Professional is more complicated, because players literally dedicate their life to the game. Playing the game is all they know, when they fail it hits much harder. This is actually a concern I share with you. As much as I enjoy watching eSports, all these players making huge sacrifices is kinda insane. Especially for the ones that don't make it to the top.
I'm not sure how it's connected to depression though. It's hard to pinpoint the primary cause, especially since a lot of progaming teams do actually exercise regularly, which is a point you brought up. But players would definitely benefit if the scene was more stable, with better "infrastructure" where they would be more supplied with what they need, like psychological assistance.
Not quite sure what else to say since I'm not sure where you wanna go with this post.
Yeah its kind of all over the place but whatevs you got the main idea.
The main point is that gaming in general is not conducive to activities that help with mental illness, so for a progamer this can mean that otherwise controllable mental illnesses become severe in anything but the strictest progaming environments.
I'd say anything below SKT/EG houses I'd say are suboptimal in their practice regime in this particular department unless the progamers are self-disciplined. I even think Teamliquid would fall very short in this regard, players are given a lot of freedom, but they also offer no advice in this regard.
A player like Fluff I feel had to leave because his psychological issues did not fit, rather than trying to help him resolve them. His posts were indicative of mania, it really didn't seem like there was any self-control when he posted, especially his last one, during a manic episode a person is out of control. Making the person feel responsible for his actions makes this problem even worse. A good understanding of this would have resulted in a different outcome. Of course, understanding does not fix the problem, you do need to actually address it.
Its also about the aspiring progamer, the one who plays for the B-teams and doesn't have a fully functional team house and a coach to assist with these ordeals. This might be useful to think about.
The secondary points are for the community who are semi-competitive and don't take care of their body, I see a lot of posts that say that they lack enthusiasm, passion, or have anxiety issues. I address those with some solutions that may help.
I wanted it to be more concrete than just say "every player should consider having a shrink". Its obvious that the 4 points given above will have a toll, gaming, especially progaming makes it easy to fall into that kind of lifestyle. You'd be surprised at how much better you feel after correctly addressing very simple issues.
There are a significant number of depressed people that don't know they are depressed, I just wanted to get the word out.
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I think you raise a lot of important points here, but the one thing that stood out to me is...
...since when did Flash have depression? I've never read anything about it...
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On June 16 2014 00:05 FuRong wrote:
I think you raise a lot of important points here, but the one thing that stood out to me is...
...since when did Flash have depression? I've never read anything about it...
There was an interview about Flash, his doctor said he had depression on a level he had never seen before of kids his age. I can't find it right now though.
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Hmm, intertesting! There is a lot of debate now is gaming addiction is actually a sickness like alcoholism, gambling or drugs. The last I have read though is that it is NOT an illness because it is fairly easy to break out of extreme gaming compared to other addictions.
However, I love that this addresses gaming because of, not causing- mental problems. I think that if you take less time watching sports or reading books, replacing those with gaming cause no harm. A game like SC2 is even very mentally challenging, and could make you smarter.
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On June 15 2014 21:18 sluggaslamoo wrote:
However for someone of my mental capacity this wasn't enough and I would think that almost nobody here cares for their body enough.
This sounds kinda pretentious and I'm inclined to resist the notion that gamers are more depressed or that gaming forums exacerbate the problem.
Tbh I didn't really think gaming had a correlation with depression. There are a lot of depressed individuals and I just assumed there were depressed gamers just like there were homosexual gamers or Christian gamers. Take a large enough population of people and you'll find depressed people in any group.
You say a lot of people are depressed without knowing it, but there's also a huge debate on what depression even is. Much of the time people claim to be depressed when they really aren't. In my opinion if there is no chemical issues and you have fun then you're not depressed, but life changing events like losing a job and girlfriend all at once might affect how much happiness your body produces.
That said, if depression is a problem with gaming then it should be addressed in some way. Maybe a gamers depression support group or something.
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I think you need a bit more data than a general feeling and Flash and Nony to conclude that gaming has serious issues with mental health. Online communities always seem wierder and more fucked up than they actually are in reality because people much more readily admit depression and other issue online than in real life.
If you go walk through the mall a stranger isn't going to come up to you and give you a speech about their social anxiety, but if you go on TL or a messageboard several might. This is further compounded by the fact that people are far more likely to post when they have an issue, and less likely to give you an update when everything is going fine.
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I used to have depression (I still have a bit), and I "fixed it" by doing heavy exercise, with a lot of cycling, mindfulness training, better diet, socializing. Spending time on TL never helped, and it's why I ask for a self-ban from TL every time I feel down. >.> However, I felt like forms of spending time on the internet could help, since they were a substitute for socializing. I used to live for the moments I could chat with a close friend online and I was very sensitive to even one or two days without contact with that person. Real-life people are better though. And I think that doing new things can help, even if it's gaming. Maybe just mindlessly playing LoL doesn't do anything, but trying a new RPG with a great story that forces you to think and to explore does. And again, going outside is still probably better. Pets help too, but are unfortunately not a replacement for real intimacy with a loved one (family or romantic). Worst I felt in my entire life was when I didn't see my parents for a few months, even if all I do is complain about them otherwise.
Also, I hope you are doing okay, I always enjoy reading your posts.
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This is very good reading for every person who spends too much time on a computer (or in front of a TV, or even worse, on their phone) because it is inherently unnatural. Same goes for computer programers, and any type of work-o-holic. I learned this the hard way at my job + starcraft. The human is not meant to deal with 100% mental stress while doing no physical activity at all. We evolved dealing with any "Stress" by working physically. Building shelter or getting food or fighting enemies. In the modern world - 100% mental stress coupled with TOTAL inactivity, is literally a death sentence.
Thanks for writing a blog that is along the same lines as I have been thinking for about the last 6 months ... affirms what I have been discovering myself.
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Just one observation... I am not sure if the gaming community is really toxic, as you would have to compare with other anonomous forums on the internet. I think there is just as much bad manners, hate and praise of own opinions in online sports-, religion -or 911-truther discussions, among others.
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As a typical gamer that doesn't really care much for running on trails or biking, I found studying other languages via Babbel's Apps/site to stimulate the lack of mental developement, I experienced when gaming. When I say "study" I don't mean as an education, just 10-15 minutes a day.
I think what you're mentioning in your post is really relevant, yet it's alot to grasp, if someone decided to alter their lifestyle to a more healthy one it could easily be done step-by-step over a longer period of time, if you have the mental strenght for that. If not, finding a source or a reason to do this, can be rather hard.
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I'm only half way to your post and... It's just awesome, i did have really bad period in my life while all i did was play, and more play... I just cannot descrive how incredibly RIGHT you are, this is a real problem with our generation, and needs to be addressed ASAP
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omg... just thank you, you just draw a picture of my life 8 months ago! I feel the need to share this with my family and friends
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It is an unhappy world that we live in where pseudo-science internet articles prey on paranoid personalities just for views and $$, and where the socially acceptable way for men to behave is to put their faces in danger and take supplements so they can hit another man's face as hard as possible.
I think you becoming addicted to drugs is the most telling part of your story. Do you think that just maybe drugs had a little more to do with your problems than games? They can both be forms of addiction, but one has a far more destructive and fast-paced effect on our bodies and 'stone age brains' than the other. I guess you could say I think the elephant in the room of your OP here is how dismissively you pass over something that has been ruining lives since it was discovered.
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In my opinion gaming can be an escape from real life that brings you happiness, when you could not find happiness in real life.
Some people don't like participating real life sports like football, or doing strenuous exercise like running because their bodies aren't as physically active as others. Physical exercise tires them out and doesn't give much emotional reward. These people prefer to use their brains than their body, and gaming gives them something they can use their brains towards.
The only problem is addiction to games causing your real life to fail so dramatically that you can't support yourself (i.e. by having a job), or that you are harming your social life so much that it causes you to be depressed. In that case you should ask yourself why you have chosen a life of gaming over any other kind of life and what aspects of other life are you missing out on that are so great? If you really felt that strongly about it, then you can always turn it around and try to find the things that you are missing.
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On June 20 2014 22:05 Chef wrote:
It is an unhappy world that we live in where pseudo-science internet articles prey on paranoid personalities just for views and $$, and where the socially acceptable way for men to behave is to put their faces in danger and take supplements so they can hit another man's face as hard as possible.
I think you becoming addicted to drugs is the most telling part of your story. Do you think that just maybe drugs had a little more to do with your problems than games? They can both be forms of addiction, but one has a far more destructive and fast-paced effect on our bodies and 'stone age brains' than the other. I guess you could say I think the elephant in the room of your OP here is how dismissively you pass over something that has been ruining lives since it was discovered.
Drug addiction was a symptom of the problem. Drug taking wouldn't have anything to do with the problem, if the problem came first. I got depressed, then I quit my job, then I got addicted to drugs to self-medicate much like a gamer would try to mask problems in his life by gaming.
For example I was taking acid every day for a whole month, even though scientifically acid has no addictive qualities, and no destructive qualities either. It masked bigger problems in my life, it was an escape, much like how gamers use gaming as an escape.
If anything bipolar/mania was the reason for it, but you know as much as I do that not taking drugs won't make my disorder magically go away. These episodes also happened many times before, before I took drugs I still developed psychotic symptoms, I just didn't make a post about it. Exercise however made a huge difference, gaming did not.
There are many out there that would defend drug taking in the exact way that you defend gaming, for the exact same reason. Many gamers will apply a halo effect on the nature of gaming, that gaming can do no wrong, that gaming helps people and is an adequate replacement for other healthy activities, its not.
Sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen in a high stress environment in its very nature is not a healthy activity.
- You have elevated cortisol levels for extended periods of time
- You do not get the hormone response from exercise to balance the stress from your activities
- You understimulate the hippocampus resulting in diminished memory function and responses to emotional stimuli
You can see the health effects of high cortisol levels here.
http://www.womentowomen.com/hormonal-health/the-destructive-effect-of-high-cortisol-levels/
A person with a combination of all of these things is likely to develop Anhedonia, a depression disorder that causes just general numbness or zombiness, you do not feel sad, but you do not feel happy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia
The biggest problem with Anhedonia is that you cannot notice it directly, you have to notice it through other things, hard to get out of bed, irritability, lack of emotions, food starts to taste bland, many forms of music/art is completely uninteresting, you get bored easily, you don't enjoy talking to people, you need excessive stimulation to feel anything such as porn, gaming. These are symptoms I see in a lot of nerdy types.
Some people can have it their whole lives without knowing thinking its normal, but once you are out of it, you can definitely feel the difference and enjoyment of life is much better.
You cannot replace the benefits of exercise and socialisation with gaming, if you have a mental illness it will get worse with more gaming. So for someone who wants to spend a lot of time gaming, it should be balanced with healthy activities.
When I game and don't socialise and exercise I am more inclined to use drugs, and my mental health problems get much worse.
My mental health problems became much better when I balanced my gaming with copious amounts of exercise, like running 3kms day, plus gym, plus boxing, that's what it took. Exercise has had a direct impact on my recovery, the difference between me two months ago or even up to 5 years ago and now is enormous.
On June 20 2014 22:30 Mongoose wrote:
In my opinion gaming can be an escape from real life that brings you happiness, when you could not find happiness in real life.
Some people don't like participating real life sports like football, or doing strenuous exercise like running because their bodies aren't as physically active as others. Physical exercise tires them out and doesn't give much emotional reward. These people prefer to use their brains than their body, and gaming gives them something they can use their brains towards.
The only problem is addiction to games causing your real life to fail so dramatically that you can't support yourself (i.e. by having a job), or that you are harming your social life so much that it causes you to be depressed. In that case you should ask yourself why you have chosen a life of gaming over any other kind of life and what aspects of other life are you missing out on that are so great? If you really felt that strongly about it, then you can always turn it around and try to find the things that you are missing.
Just because you don't like doing something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Do you like washing the dishes? Probably not, but you should still do it instead of eating off plates that haven't been cleaned for over a year.
These people prefer to use their brains than their body, and gaming gives them something they can use their brains towards.
There are many social or outdoor activities that are cerebral and there are many games that aren't cerebral at all, there is little correlation between gaming and cerebral activity. Counter-strike is no more cerebral than your local game of touch football, there is a ton of strategy and thinking in a lot of sporting activities. In boxing I'm always thinking up techniques on how I can get past my opponents defense or counter his style.
Not doing exercise because you are not as physically active as others I believe is a complete cop out. I am one of the nerdiest guys out there, hell, I am autistic, I am the one who should be sitting at home reading books and not talking to anyone.
Finding happiness in gaming is not a point I disagree with by the way, but doing exercise is not mutually exclusive. However if you sit in front of a computer all day every day, and work an office job, you are not doing yourself any favors if you have mental health problems.
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Although I was completely expecting these kinds of responses I guess I have to reiterate.
I am merely getting the word out that if you wanna spend a life in front of the computer, you should balance it with a life away from the computer. If you have mental illness, don't expect to self-medicate the problem by more gaming, it will more than likely make it worse.
Seeing posts from progamers that are telltale signs of mental health problems and not even daring to bother at looking at the actual lifestyle itself is evident that we are completely blind to this issue. Whats worse is that some people consider this as an attack on the whole "gamer lifestyle" when in fact I feel like I am doing people a huge favor by bringing this to light.
If you want to become a progamer, or even semi-competitive, you should not neglect the activities that keep us healthy. There is scientific evidence to say that exercise will help a progamer get better at gaming. Nobody can say that having a brain that has shutdown many of its neurons due to a lack of outdoor activity (that will inevitably happen, nobody is immune to this) is good for a progamer.
There is even scientific evidence that spending all your time indoors and not doing certain activities like exercise and socialising will even bring out mental illness in people that otherwise wouldn't have it.
Just think of solitary confinement. Spending too much time away from people couped up in a room will cause madness for practically everyone. Logically how is this much different from spending most days couped up in your room in front of a computer? The effect will be less extreme, however to say you aren't getting affected at all would be an understatement.
I am not trying to attack the "gaming lifestyle" in anyway, yes there are possibly benefits, however gaming is not an adequate replacement for healthy activities and they are very easy to ignore when you are surrounded by people who put a halo effect on it.
Exercise is a scientifically proven method of rehabilitating people with depression and other mental illnesses, gaming is not. Maybe gaming will make you "happy" it will not however treat your depression.
If you think you have mental health problems I have given some advice on how to deal with them, none of which tell you to quit gaming.
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Sorry for the necro :3
But im curious about Flash interview, anyone has links?
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EPT
