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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 24 2014 03:06 ExceliosBeyond wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 01:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Nien for Benny is like a sidegrade at best, if even that. Benny isn't better than Nien in any way except maybe that he randomly dies and feeds less often than Nien, but he also draws even less pressure than Nien at times.
There aren't really any good top laners that are free and would fit CLG's style. Quas is like perfect for them but as someone said Curse is not giving him up. Cruzertheshitter is bad, Innox is bad, ZionSpartan doesn't fit what CLG needs, and who else is there? I'm not the most up to date person on challengers/up and comings, but from what I've seen in NACL and stuff none of the challenger tops are better than Nien, so unless there is some secret solo queue warrior, CLG doesn't really have much in terms of options.
I think Monte/CLG defending Nien isn't necessarily because they believe Nien is good (seriously you'd have to be delusional to still think Nien can hang with the big boys), but because they know he's the best they can get right now. I agree with this 100 percent (although I don't think Zion is even as good as many people say he is, he does so much dumb stuff outside of lane like deep freezing lanes while his team loses tower after tower). Yazuki or Quas are the only potential upgrades I see over Nien, both are skilled mechanically and very smart players, but even at that, I'm not sure if they would be upgrades for sure (and if Liquid is smart at all, he wouldn't give up Quas without a huge payoff). Show nested quote +I haven't watched too many XDG games this season, but can anyone give me a quick rundown as to why they're no longer dominating NA like they did last season? Various factors. From what we've heard, Vulcun didn't even practice that much last split and were riding natural talent + a really good understanding of the current meta. A lot of teams made huge improvements in terms of both of those areas - they hired coaches/analysts, the replaced weak links, they ironed out their practice schedule, etc. XDG just didn't put in the necessary hours during the off-season to adjust to the new meta, plus they tried the whole roster swap which just further set them behind. Monte also noted the team had a lot of morale issues, which he thought was the biggest factor really holding them back. He talked about how the team just didn't have any confidence anymore.
Yazuki is really bad. Quas on the other hand is very solid because he can play anything at a high level, including non-meta picks. His TPs in the series against Dignitas were very spot-on and very impactful in turning teamfights into Curse's favor.
As for Zion's deep freezing, that's not his fault, that's the fault of Coast for not playing around what Zion is doing. Nien needs to further his champion pool and learn to use teleport, because his TP play has been horrendous. If he can do that, he'll be a serviceable top laner who isn't a complete liability.
So basically from what you're saying, once XDG started losing, they continued to lose because they have morale and confidence issues. It's not surprising that it happened that way for XDG. It seems as though they're the worst team in terms of understanding the new meta. That basically tells me if LMQ wins Game 1, they'll win super easily because XDG'll just crumble under the pressure.
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On April 24 2014 03:13 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 03:06 ExceliosBeyond wrote:On April 24 2014 01:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Nien for Benny is like a sidegrade at best, if even that. Benny isn't better than Nien in any way except maybe that he randomly dies and feeds less often than Nien, but he also draws even less pressure than Nien at times.
There aren't really any good top laners that are free and would fit CLG's style. Quas is like perfect for them but as someone said Curse is not giving him up. Cruzertheshitter is bad, Innox is bad, ZionSpartan doesn't fit what CLG needs, and who else is there? I'm not the most up to date person on challengers/up and comings, but from what I've seen in NACL and stuff none of the challenger tops are better than Nien, so unless there is some secret solo queue warrior, CLG doesn't really have much in terms of options.
I think Monte/CLG defending Nien isn't necessarily because they believe Nien is good (seriously you'd have to be delusional to still think Nien can hang with the big boys), but because they know he's the best they can get right now. I agree with this 100 percent (although I don't think Zion is even as good as many people say he is, he does so much dumb stuff outside of lane like deep freezing lanes while his team loses tower after tower). Yazuki or Quas are the only potential upgrades I see over Nien, both are skilled mechanically and very smart players, but even at that, I'm not sure if they would be upgrades for sure (and if Liquid is smart at all, he wouldn't give up Quas without a huge payoff). I haven't watched too many XDG games this season, but can anyone give me a quick rundown as to why they're no longer dominating NA like they did last season? Various factors. From what we've heard, Vulcun didn't even practice that much last split and were riding natural talent + a really good understanding of the current meta. A lot of teams made huge improvements in terms of both of those areas - they hired coaches/analysts, the replaced weak links, they ironed out their practice schedule, etc. XDG just didn't put in the necessary hours during the off-season to adjust to the new meta, plus they tried the whole roster swap which just further set them behind. Monte also noted the team had a lot of morale issues, which he thought was the biggest factor really holding them back. He talked about how the team just didn't have any confidence anymore. Yazuki is really bad. Quas on the other hand is very solid because he can play anything at a high level, including non-meta picks. His TPs in the series against Dignitas were very spot-on and very impactful in turning teamfights into Curse's favor. As for Zion's deep freezing, that's not his fault, that's the fault of Coast for not playing around what Zion is doing. Nien needs to further his champion pool and learn to use teleport, because his TP play has been horrendous. If he can do that, he'll be a serviceable top laner who isn't a complete liability. So basically from what you're saying, once XDG started losing, they continued to lose because they have morale and confidence issues. It's not surprising that it happened that way for XDG. It seems as though they're the worst team in terms of understanding the new meta. That basically tells me if LMQ wins Game 1, they'll win super easily because XDG'll just crumble under the pressure.
A number of people also said XDG didn't practice between worlds and the spring split. Bloodwater confessed to this in his AMA, and Scarra said something about XDG players never playing any soloqueue.
It isn't surprising they didn't understand the new meta because they didn't play it at all before the spring season. The question is if they've been practicing a lot since they got relegated (I'd sure hope so), and if they haven't put themselves so far behind after the break between worlds and spring split that they can't ever regain their form.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Wow, did not see that coming.
Not sure this will even be that great for CLG unless they have something lined up since they'll have to teach their new toplaner all the cohesion and rotational strategy they built up all of last season.
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The team is looking for a career top laner to replace Nien, but has also discussed the possibility of moving Link to top lane and replacing him with a proven, exceptional mid lane talent.
This is interesting.
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Baa?21242 Posts
Lol CLG must be pissed cause now they have to play with someone who's probably even worse than Nien.
My completely uninformed, outsider speculation is that CLG had no intentions of benching Nien but Nien himself decided that it wasn't worth the effort to stay anymore, and now CLG is really annoyed. Link to top lane lol true CLG style.
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On April 24 2014 04:10 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +The team is looking for a career top laner to replace Nien, but has also discussed the possibility of moving Link to top lane and replacing him with a proven, exceptional mid lane talent. This is interesting.
So CLG Shiphtur?
That'd be terrifying, except they'd still have the problem of a mechanically talented player who doesn't play toplane playing top.
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Baa?21242 Posts
Link is much better than Nien, he'll do much better top than Nien did if it comes to that.
And to think you all called me a hater when I said Nien is a shit top and won't ever be able to hang when he first joined.
"Just give him time;" "he needs time to adjust;" "he can learn the lane." Lomo.
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Ok if they are willing to move Link top I really want clg shiphtur now.
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On April 24 2014 03:13 Roffles wrote:
Yazuki is really bad. Quas on the other hand is very solid because he can play anything at a high level, including non-meta picks. His TPs in the series against Dignitas were very spot-on and very impactful in turning teamfights into Curse's favor.
Eh, I dunno if I agree with your assessment about Yazuki. He's pretty much the only reason TWZ won two games against Coast in the last relegation series, he managed a 2.0 KDA across the entire series on the losing team against ZionSpartan. He's generally the secondary carry on C9T and he's even carried the few rare games where Altec feeds.
He didn't have a great showing at the NACS playoffs, but he's been a consistent performer in EPS and NACL. I think he's far from terrible and better than Innox, Cruzer and Benny.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On April 24 2014 04:17 ExceliosBeyond wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 03:13 Roffles wrote:
Yazuki is really bad. Quas on the other hand is very solid because he can play anything at a high level, including non-meta picks. His TPs in the series against Dignitas were very spot-on and very impactful in turning teamfights into Curse's favor. Eh, I dunno if I agree with your assessment about Yazuki. He's pretty much the only reason TWZ won two games against Coast in the last relegation series, he managed a 2.0 KDA across the entire series on the losing team against ZionSpartan. He's generally the secondary carry on C9T and he's even carried the few rare games where Altec feeds. He didn't have a great showing at the NACS playoffs, but he's been a consistent performer in EPS and NACL. I think he's far from terrible and better than Innox, Cruzer and Benny.
I strongly disagree with that assessment. I stand by my philosophy of looking at how someone does when the team is losing as a good way to assess their skill, and Yazuki has traditionally looked like one of the worst players whenever they lose.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Link top was pretty bad when he had to play it at that MLG where chauster was MIA so they went link top, george of the jungle and jiji mid but it was some pretty last second stuff with chauster back then.
Then again he had george of the jungle so idk
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Baa?21242 Posts
The problem with Link top is that he has a natural disadvantage. Namely, you have to be fat to be a top laner, and Link is like anorexic Asian boy ;;
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CLG Zorozero incoming! I do feel sorry for Nien. He seems like a nice guy but was just put in an almost impossible situation. He's not a top laner and most likely never will be one, maybe he gets picked up as AD for a decent team.
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I just don't want CLG Shiphtur because I'm a Dig fan and then the dream of Shiphtur in mid is gone.
Link is pretty versatile though as a player, so he might do well in toplane. He was one of the best midlaners in NA last season, so I'm not entirely convinced replacing him with Shiphtur is enough of an upgrade. Then again the NA toplane scene is so bad Link being moderately better than Nien and Shiphtur being moderately better than Link might be good enough.
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On April 24 2014 04:22 Numy wrote:
CLG Zorozero incoming! I do feel sorry for Nien. He seems like a nice guy but was just put in an almost impossible situation. He's not a top laner and most likely never will be one, maybe he gets picked up as AD for a decent team.
Nien + Sheep + Xmithie to Coast.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On April 24 2014 04:23 AsnSensation wrote:
Balls disagrees....
Balls lifts. Does Link look like a lifter?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 24 2014 04:24 Swords wrote:
I just don't want CLG Shiphtur because I'm a Dig fan and then the dream of Shiphtur in mid is gone.
Link is pretty versatile though as a player, so he might do well in toplane. He was one of the best midlaners in NA last season, so I'm not entirely convinced replacing him with Shiphtur is enough of an upgrade. Then again the NA toplane scene is so bad Link being moderately better than Nien and Shiphtur being moderately better than Link might be good enough.
I just hope that CLG will find real toplaner and let Link play midlane, i'm almost sure that he won't fail there but still.
But on the other side, who can they get l0l? Any soloqueue toplane Gods in NA right now? Zorozero if NiP fails again tomorrow? Kev1n, if {M} fails? If they get kev1n, i'm not against it tho, but he will have to rotate way more than he does in Millenium.
Inb4 Coast gets eliminated, ZionSpartan moves to CLG, CLG fails hard, hype ends.
And if they move Link, oh boy.
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EPT
