EPT[NA LCS] Spring 2014 Playoffs - Page 121
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 23 2014 20:39 AlterKot wrote: I'd argue that Sneaky looks good because he has less room for mistake compared to both Double and Turtle, but maybe he's second I dunno. Anyway, here's my dream roster swaps: Mancloud goes to Curse, Voy back top, Quas to CLG, Nien new CST ADC, Xmithie and Sheep to CST as well. Once Nien goes back to ADC I'm starting my campaign for Tabzz back to mid. The reason why Sneaky didn't ever get any praise last split was because he was shoved onto utility AD carries, allowing Meteos to farm a bit more and carry the game with Balls and Hai. This season, he's been more than able to win lanes and carry games on champs like Caitlyn and Lucian with slightly higher farm priority. He's always even or up in CS and usually has some insanely sick KDAs. When was the last time you saw Sneaky straight up feed in a game? Without a doubt he's either the best AD carry in NA or the second best AD carry in NA right behind Doublelift. Good positioning in fights, rarely loses lane, and is capable of impacting the game even without high farm priority on his team. What should happen is Dignitas should pick up Coast's solo laners. Imagine the things Zion and Shiphtur would be able to do if they weren't getting camped 24/7 because their bot and jungle are useless. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 23 2014 21:06 AlterKot wrote: I don't remember any of top4 ADCs straight up feeding and again, I don't think there's much room for error when you play mostly Caitlyn and Lucian (notice these are most played champs of Celevar and Forgiven). But that's all I got, I'm not gonna lie that I'm capable of judging who has better teamfight positioning. Double has a tendency to feed a lot when he's splitting and losing his will to live. Turtle and Qtpie also are prone to dying a lot because of overly aggressive positioning in teamfights and tunneling kills. With positioning, you essentially look at how aggressive they play looking to get damage down in teamfights. There are some who don't die in teamfights, but also don't output enough DPS onto high priority targets. Cop is the definition of this. That guy gets top farm priority funneled onto him and he doesn't make anything of it because he plays like a pussy in teamfights. Turtle on the other hand is basically the opposite. He'll valk flash past the tank line to DPS the enemy carry for the flashy play, putting him in danger of getting turned on and dying instantly. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
This is going to be a crazy Wednesday. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On April 23 2014 21:01 Roffles wrote: What should happen is Dignitas should pick up Coast's solo laners. Imagine the things Zion and Shiphtur would be able to do if they weren't getting camped 24/7 because their bot and jungle are useless. This is my dream scenario as a Dig fan. I don't even know if they'd be good as a team in terms of rotations or strategy, but man, all of those players are fun to watch. I think a scenario similar to what AlterKot outlined is more likely though. If XDG and EG get relegated you'll have Xmithie, Sheep, Mancloud, and Pobelter on the open market and those players will fill in weak spots on current teams. I don't see Curse giving up Quas though. I could see CLG potentially picking up Benny and Nien moving back to adc on another team though. Even that might be a stretch though, since I don't think Benny is really special enough to rock the boat. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22610 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
There aren't really any good top laners that are free and would fit CLG's style. Quas is like perfect for them but as someone said Curse is not giving him up. Cruzertheshitter is bad, Innox is bad, ZionSpartan doesn't fit what CLG needs, and who else is there? I'm not the most up to date person on challengers/up and comings, but from what I've seen in NACL and stuff none of the challenger tops are better than Nien, so unless there is some secret solo queue warrior, CLG doesn't really have much in terms of options. I think Monte/CLG defending Nien isn't necessarily because they believe Nien is good (seriously you'd have to be delusional to still think Nien can hang with the big boys), but because they know he's the best they can get right now. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On April 24 2014 01:40 NeoIllusions wrote: After seeing how Monte stood up for Nien during the last podcast with Thorin, I think CLG fans will have to accept that CLG won't replace Nien imo. He has to stand up for his players, even if Nien was Zuna-levels of bad I'd hope Monte would stand up for him. Nien isn't awful. He's certainly below average right now, but he knows CLG's strategy and plays well with his teammates. Unless they can get something really special in top lane, I agree that they won't replace him. If he can fix his mental errors (back timings, not tilting over bad matchups) he'll be perfectly decent. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Swords
6038 Posts
It's hard to get a read on Pobelter because he often had Snoopeh feeding the enemy mid laner, and a toplaner who couldn't actually play toplane champions. Aphromoo played incredibly well for CLG though. | ||
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TitusVI
Germany8319 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22610 Posts
On April 24 2014 02:18 TitusVI wrote: Actually no one knows how far montes power goes in clg. Sure hes coach and they do strategies and stuff but if he can make decisions about kicking out players isnt quite clear. I would expect HSGG to be the one with that power but Monte is probably someone who's advise is highly valued. If he thought someone had to be replaced and 2/3 teammates agreed with him I would expect it to happen. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 24 2014 02:10 Swords wrote: Also, I'm curious, how do people think Curse would've done had they kept their original roster of Quas, IWD, Pobelter, Cop, Aphromoo? I guess it might've been Aphro/Zekent with Aphro on adc though? It's hard to get a read on Pobelter because he often had Snoopeh feeding the enemy mid laner, and a toplaner who couldn't actually play toplane champions. Aphromoo played incredibly well for CLG though. Pobelter has been very disappointing. He's been losing a lot of 1v1s for no reason at all. I don't think that team would get higher than their current position because Aphro was highly underwhelming at AD and Zekent was just bad, and unfortunately I don't think Pobelter's that much of an upgrade from Voyboy. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On April 24 2014 02:20 Roffles wrote: The problem with the lower tier top players is that they're unable to play meta champs well. For example, Innox is a garbage tank player and looks much better playing stuff such as AP Nidalee and Jayce top. Same with Cruzer, he's very competent on LeeSin, but you put him on Renekton and he has 0 impact on the game. To a certain extent, this is also ZionSpartan's issue as well. You put him on a Renekton and he'll do things, but he's so much better on Jax and so much more comfortable playing carry top laners. But unfortunately, those types of champions aren't what the team needs and teams don't draft around that non-tank top laner effectively to make the pick work. One of the few silver linings I found about Cruzer was he at least tried to play the meta champions. Watching Innox completely gimp EG's team comp every week was beyond frustrating, and I don't even like EG. Dig should definitely look for an upgrade over Cruzer, but he seems to listen to calls, and plays what the team needs, which is nice. Even so, he's just so worthless sometimes - you'd think if he could learn the ins-and-outs of more complicated champs (Jayce/Lee) he'd be able to spam Renekton and Shyvana and become competent on them. | ||
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orzeu
Poland5205 Posts
On April 24 2014 02:21 Gorsameth wrote: I would expect HSGG to be the one with that power but Monte is probably someone who's advise is highly valued. If he thought someone had to be replaced and 2/3 teammates agreed with him I would expect it to happen. Didn't in past Doublelift decided a lot of roster changes? I remember Chauster talking about this a lot on stream. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Xmithie doesn't look comfortable jungling, and Zuna's still the same Zuna. Benny doesn't look like he ever has any impact on the game, but honestly it doesn't seem like much pressure is being put onto him because teams honestly just camp Zuna for free kills, so I'm really wondering why all of a sudden Mancloud can go from best mid NA to very mediocre mid NA. | ||
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ExceliosBeyond
208 Posts
On April 24 2014 01:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Nien for Benny is like a sidegrade at best, if even that. Benny isn't better than Nien in any way except maybe that he randomly dies and feeds less often than Nien, but he also draws even less pressure than Nien at times. There aren't really any good top laners that are free and would fit CLG's style. Quas is like perfect for them but as someone said Curse is not giving him up. Cruzertheshitter is bad, Innox is bad, ZionSpartan doesn't fit what CLG needs, and who else is there? I'm not the most up to date person on challengers/up and comings, but from what I've seen in NACL and stuff none of the challenger tops are better than Nien, so unless there is some secret solo queue warrior, CLG doesn't really have much in terms of options. I think Monte/CLG defending Nien isn't necessarily because they believe Nien is good (seriously you'd have to be delusional to still think Nien can hang with the big boys), but because they know he's the best they can get right now. I agree with this 100 percent (although I don't think Zion is even as good as many people say he is, he does so much dumb stuff outside of lane like deep freezing lanes while his team loses tower after tower). Yazuki or Quas are the only potential upgrades I see over Nien, both are skilled mechanically and very smart players, but even at that, I'm not sure if they would be upgrades for sure (and if Liquid is smart at all, he wouldn't give up Quas without a huge payoff). I haven't watched too many XDG games this season, but can anyone give me a quick rundown as to why they're no longer dominating NA like they did last season? Various factors. From what we've heard, Vulcun didn't even practice that much last split and were riding natural talent + a really good understanding of the current meta. A lot of teams made huge improvements in terms of both of those areas - they hired coaches/analysts, the replaced weak links, they ironed out their practice schedule, etc. XDG just didn't put in the necessary hours during the off-season to adjust to the new meta, plus they tried the whole roster swap which just further set them behind. Monte also noted the team had a lot of morale issues, which he thought was the biggest factor really holding them back. He talked about how the team just didn't have any confidence anymore. | ||
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