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On April 02 2014 12:16 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 05:15 LSB wrote:On April 02 2014 05:12 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 05:07 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 05:03 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 04:58 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 04:56 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote:
so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much
so how we rank these groups. i think we should have annoying unreadable players on d1 since more time with them isn't going to give us more information. there's a small consideration in that we kind of might get people's flip when their group is up so it might be a good idea to put a group with good players in d3 so later towns have something to go on for sure.
dunno though, all of these groups seems okay. if anything, i think cell4 is a good group for first lynch. Rayn you liked this post and I absolutely hate it. Why in the world do you like this post? This is an awful post and you should know why? You roll scum? I just figured it out. I was approaching the game stupidly and from the wrong perspective. ~rayn So explain why I'm right and help push for me as mayor or die. I just made a post about it. Or asked other people about it. You lynch the groups where you know mafia is and make the order based on reads after ~40 hours or so. If there are similar groups / a lot of unsureness you first pick the groups where there are players who are most likely not paying attention later on in the game (for example kush is never going to reread the thread, ever). But who gets to be the mayor does not matter. If you can explain to me why does it matter go ahead. ~rayn No I don't like your reasoning. I'm not saying you're wrong on what you've said (skimmed), but the stance: On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote:
so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much Is a super odd stance for a towny to make. It's neither stating, "I don't fucking care who mayor is and I don't fucking care about the order" OR "I super care about who the mayor is and what the order is." I've seen and played in a number of odd games and I've taken a number of unique stances about things myself, but I don't think I've ever seen a stance that's so bland about it. Like that's a really, really weird way to approach this game and I'm not liking you right now for not picking up on this specifically. No. The point is this. The order is decided by the town. The mayor is nothing but a figurehead who submits the order decided by the town to Artanis. If the order differs we policy lynch the mayor.In this case it doesn't even matter who the mayor is. Heck it might even be the top scumread + Show Spoiler +Actually that's a risky idea, but can work in specific situations. For example if the top scumread is in a group with someone we'd liked to get confirmd I like the bolded section because its how I feel about mayor. They should be someone who is knowledgeable about the players and basically just gives the info to the mod at the end of the day and I don't feel getting voted mayor is alignment indicative unless you go against town's wishes then that would be alignment indicative. I like LSB for this post and I said earlier his post showing the activity levels although that might just be because I don't know a lot of players here so it gives me a decent idea of what to expect. My only problem is that I do think those two posts I linked of slam seem town but rayn seems certain I'd really like to here input on this from some other people like geript/gum/prplz as to what they read off slam. For me though I'm reading Balla's cell as Balla most town then LSB then Slam in descending towniness.
I disagree.
A third of the players in this game are scum. No matter how hard you try to look at the town's input, at the end of the day, a third of the people will be lying and you might/might not have any idea who they are. The best option is to have someone that everyone can trust a decent amount and giving them the power of mayor, and then having them make the decision on their own.
This does not mean that the town has no input. The town is free to say and vote for whoever they want, but eventually someone has to make the call. It would be best if everyone gave their own preferred orders because that information can and should be used against the mafia.
We have an awesome tool here that we may actually be able to use if we can put the pieces together, but only if you give someone that power that actually gives a shit about what they do with it. I think that that person(s) is the Cavborg.
Vote for getmoript.
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Cav, nobody really cares that much about mayor except your hydra apparently. Any thoughts on who is scum?
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On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean.
You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that.
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? .
Compare that to this.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
rofl
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
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On April 02 2014 12:27 Balla24 wrote:
Cav, nobody really cares that much about mayor except your hydra apparently. Any thoughts on who is scum?
I care about mayor as well. It's a position of power that can be put to use if we care about connecting the dots later down the line. It's a tool and it should be utilized as such.
Our own cell has an inactive but prp has said stuff and I frankly don't like any of it. I think he's scummy because he keeps trying to pounce on people that are rousing poor thread sentiment rather than trying to find mafia.
Rayn likes him and I think that that's derp, but Steveling has done nothing so far so I'm concerned about making accurate reads into that cell until he says stuff.
Your cell is between LSB and Slam, but I'm going to trust geript's read on it and say that it's probably Slam. (Though LSB saying stuff about policy lynching the mayor is derp because the mayor is most likely going to be town and that's a free win for scum in that cell. It took me a while to realize but there you go.)
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
I'm clueless about Cell 3.
~Cav
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On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
First two cases are scum, third case is town
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On April 02 2014 12:16 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:43 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 11:37 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:30 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I am also going to say this last time poofer and i try to be as clear as possible.
What you are doing is this:
You are refusing to comment on the part of the game where it is statistically easiest for you to find mafia if you are town (and therefore prove your townieness) and where it's the hardest for you to hide if you are mafia.
Can you see why it's scummy?
~rayn Well I disagree I see if I refused to give them ever that it would be scummy but thats fine I'm moving on and reading the slam/LSB/Balla cell now. If you have many people telling you what you are doing is wrong, shouldn't that tell you that you are probably wrong? You need to comment on your cell as soon as you get the chance to, and since you have been "taking notes on your cell" it should be easy for you to do so. Furthermore, why do you disagree with what rayn just said? I disagree that temporarily holding back your ideas is scummy but I do agree never telling is scummy. (Mainly I had this idea that if i got scum I'd just tunnel my own group and do nothing else and I wanted to avoid letting people do that as mafia and this sounded like a good way to do it so I'm probably just arguing cause I want my idea to be right) Two things: #1: Is holding back your ideas hindering scum's abilities to play properly or is there any reason that you are actually holding back your ideas? If not, then you are only hindering town's ability to read you, so post what you think of your cell. #2 Like rayn said, it is EASIEST to read your cell, since you have a 50% chance of being correct therefore it is also hardest to hide within as mafia, since the people within your cell have a higher shot to read you. So you need to post about these people. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:But after reading your filter you do seem more town like when we played that Newbie game forever ago with posts like this one: On April 02 2014 04:50 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 04:47 mderg wrote:On April 02 2014 04:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why.
Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town.I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette). I hate things like the bolded part, just doesn´t add anything. Everybody claims to be town. The analysis on yourself is interesting, I think it is very difficult to read peope who know their "town/scum features" Neither does your post. What exactly is the point of it? Are you calling sentinel scum because he is "claiming town"? I had highlighted that post by mderg in my normal read through and your comment I agree that his non conclusion on Sentinal is really weird like he wants to paint him as scum without actually using those words. Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town. I like that you seemed to on the same thought chain as me here. So atm in my cell I'm leaning HF=town and Mderg=scum. As far as your filter what do you read on slam Balla? Do you read him like rayn based off tone? You thought I was scum before reading my filter? Why? This makes no sense if you thought Slam was scum. Maybe i'm misreading the "but after reading your filter". I don't read Slam off of tone, I read him off of content. I'm 2/3 with him. When he posts mostly gibberish he is town when he posts somewhat related to the game he is mafia. That didn't work for me last game so I will be more careful, right now he is town but he's had a string of posts that are making me doubt that. Plus it's not that unreasonable for him to have been changing that meta on purpose. Which leads into LSB: he has talked a lot about setup and pushed a prplhz mafia angle for a little while. From what I've seen so far it is not totally unreasonable for him to be mafia. We will see what he does. Last thing to you poofter: you just directly contradicted what you have been preaching for the past couple of hours and asked me about someone in my cell even though from your PoV I shouldn't be commenting on people in my cell. What gives?
I don't know you and rayn's alignment so I have to consider that you're attacking my plan because you're scum and know its a good idea or that you're town and my idea is shit. So The "after reading your filter" bit was me saying "well shit I read rayn as town and Balla now looks town maybe my idea was shit" so before you were neutral and I wanted you to comment on my idea after the read you both look town and so maybe my idea was bad. I have formally abandoned my plan because apparently it was bad so might as well use my town reads to figure out what they think and find out their views. You and rayn could be mafia and I'm misreading you both but since I've only played with a couple people in this game you and rayn being 2 of them and you were both town in the games I've played getting a read on you both as town and trusting your judgement seems like the best course of action. Basically I reassessed after reading your filter and am willing to try it you guys way.
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On April 02 2014 12:37 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:27 Balla24 wrote:
Cav, nobody really cares that much about mayor except your hydra apparently. Any thoughts on who is scum? I care about mayor as well. It's a position of power that can be put to use if we care about connecting the dots later down the line. It's a tool and it should be utilized as such. Our own cell has an inactive but prp has said stuff and I frankly don't like any of it. I think he's scummy because he keeps trying to pounce on people that are rousing poor thread sentiment rather than trying to find mafia. Rayn likes him and I think that that's derp, but Steveling has done nothing so far so I'm concerned about making accurate reads into that cell until he says stuff. Your cell is between LSB and Slam, but I'm going to trust geript's read on it and say that it's probably Slam. (Though LSB saying stuff about policy lynching the mayor is derp because the mayor is most likely going to be town and that's a free win for scum in that cell. It took me a while to realize but there you go.) I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). I'm clueless about Cell 3. ~Cav
WHY
WHY AM I SCUM.
Tonight I sleep. I am getting up at 3 now which is pushing it.
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On April 02 2014 12:45 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:37 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 12:27 Balla24 wrote:
Cav, nobody really cares that much about mayor except your hydra apparently. Any thoughts on who is scum? I care about mayor as well. It's a position of power that can be put to use if we care about connecting the dots later down the line. It's a tool and it should be utilized as such. Our own cell has an inactive but prp has said stuff and I frankly don't like any of it. I think he's scummy because he keeps trying to pounce on people that are rousing poor thread sentiment rather than trying to find mafia. Rayn likes him and I think that that's derp, but Steveling has done nothing so far so I'm concerned about making accurate reads into that cell until he says stuff. Your cell is between LSB and Slam, but I'm going to trust geript's read on it and say that it's probably Slam. (Though LSB saying stuff about policy lynching the mayor is derp because the mayor is most likely going to be town and that's a free win for scum in that cell. It took me a while to realize but there you go.) I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). I'm clueless about Cell 3. ~Cav WHY WHY AM I SCUM. Tonight I sleep. I am getting up at 3 now which is pushing it.
I have absolutely no idea. G scumreads people for weird shit but he nailed Toad on Day 1 back in Cultured so easily that it makes me want to sheep him on it. If you want an explanation, you talk to him.
~Cav
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On April 02 2014 07:50 Alakaslam wrote:
OH LSB you are the other dude?!?!
Crap
Well so much for my reads. I townread you both.
Crap.
On April 02 2014 09:33 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:42 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 06:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:33 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 06:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
How about you tell me why do you want to lynch townies to prove their reads good instead of lynching scum which results to the same, geript?
~rayn Me wanting to lynch HF is 100% not alignment indicative and you know that. We both know he can bus hard as scum and we both know his town game is decent. Me wanting to lynch him is more me wanting to lynch him. Like, obviously if I have a scumread on one of the other two, then I'm going to lynch my scumread. That's not going to make me want to policy lynch HF anyless. More than policy lynching him though, I 100% don't like him living past day 1; he's fully capable of pied pipering the town into stupidity as scum and one that I don't trust allowing him to live. As for policy lynching palmar, it's something that I think is useful but that really depends on where the game is at when he comes up for lynch. Like if we're up 2-0 and I don't have a good read on any of those 3, then I want to lynch Palmer because we get to know that his opinions are trustworthy for the last 2 lynches. If it's 1-1, then it's a good bit tougher. Obviously if it's 0-2 then you go to lynch scum. It's something I've been thinking of since he joined but knew would depend on who's in his group and what the situation would be and (of course my alignment). It's by no means a flat out, LYNCH PALMER WITH FIRE TO GET INFORMATION UNDER EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE POLICY LYNCH. It's a strategy to maximize information but clearly situation dependent on where/when his group comes up and where we're sitting int he game. ~g No you just said you want to policy lynch them. You can't policy lynch them and lynch someone else. So you agree your first post was literally full of shit? This one: + Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 05:02 getmoript wrote:
So I've skimmed so far.
Cell 1
Raynpelikonoshi--Very tempted to lynch because I can't read Koshi and I don't think Rayn has called me super town yet
Gumshoe--solid player with alright reads generally but pretty obvious as scum
Steveling--???
Cell 2
Holyflare-scum
Tehpoofter--very good player, still adjusting to forum, low volume poster
mderg--?????
Cell 3
Palmar--strong player
Sentinel--I don't really remember him much
Coagulation--Policy lynch option, both lurkers
Cell 4
Balla24--meh
LSB--meh
Alakaslam--likely scum
Cell 5
Getmoript--clearly town, great at endgame, super stronk townie
prplhz--decent player, generally low volume, scummy first post
Cephiro--solid playler
Rayn I'm having a hard time reading Koshi... Why wouldn't he push himself for mayor on D1/0 whatever it is today?
Like Cell 2 is obviously the best first lynch. HF busses as scum and has ok reads as town. I'd love to policy lynch him and under no circumstances should he ever be allowed to mid-late game. Cell 3 should be the third lynch 100%. Palmar is someone who, for lack of a better lynch, we can lynch and then sheep his reads; I'm tempted to move this up to slot 2 because Palmer tends to get worse as time goes on. Cell 4 should probably be the second lynch though because they're mostly unreadable and I want to lynch Alakaslam so that makes that pretty easy. Cell 1 is clearly next because me and rayn usually click on things and in case town hasn't won by then me and Rayn should easily be able to finish it off or I'll hammer Rayn to win the game for town.
2->4->3->1->5 is clearly the best pattern and me/Cav should 100% be the mayor. Like it's obvious, I refuse to let anyone else be the mayor and will policy lynch anyone who goes against me as mayor. ~rayn No it wasn't. Me and Cav are clearly town here. You should obviously be reading me for town here. Like you say it's full of shit and completely ignore the fact that I want to lynch Alakaslam with fire; I'm nailed him every time and he's 100% the lynch from that group. Like you don't even get why I want to lynch prplhz. I don't even get why you're trying to bury me here. I cannot see you not supporting me here as town. Hmm. Raynpelikoshi, I am willing to be day1 lynch to prove dis wrong but I would rather not. Between Balla and LSB, who is more likely to be scum and why? You two (Balla, LSB) incriminate each other yeah? I can incriminate both of you if you want but I will probably fail I am aware this is scummy
The read on Slam changed after having time to reread his filter. The read on Slam used to be: Is he having fun, if yes then town. But that's really an incomplete explanation. Slam subjectively has more fun playing mafia than he does as town. The difference is that as mafia he doesn't want to be lynched. As town, I don't think he cares. As town, he allows himself to be carefree so that he can enjoy playing. As scum, he doesn't because that's what gets him lynched. The two posts I've quoted, show off that carefree attitude. In these posts he's allowing himself to post whatever the fuck he's thinking; it's just him posting. That's town for him.
Ps slam I think Balla is the scum in your group
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute.
It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
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@gumshoe So you baited rayn into reading you for lying? Is that what you're saying in one point in your case?
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On April 02 2014 12:49 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 07:50 Alakaslam wrote:
OH LSB you are the other dude?!?!
Crap
Well so much for my reads. I townread you both.
Crap. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 09:33 Alakaslam wrote:On April 02 2014 06:42 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 06:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:33 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 06:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
How about you tell me why do you want to lynch townies to prove their reads good instead of lynching scum which results to the same, geript?
~rayn Me wanting to lynch HF is 100% not alignment indicative and you know that. We both know he can bus hard as scum and we both know his town game is decent. Me wanting to lynch him is more me wanting to lynch him. Like, obviously if I have a scumread on one of the other two, then I'm going to lynch my scumread. That's not going to make me want to policy lynch HF anyless. More than policy lynching him though, I 100% don't like him living past day 1; he's fully capable of pied pipering the town into stupidity as scum and one that I don't trust allowing him to live. As for policy lynching palmar, it's something that I think is useful but that really depends on where the game is at when he comes up for lynch. Like if we're up 2-0 and I don't have a good read on any of those 3, then I want to lynch Palmer because we get to know that his opinions are trustworthy for the last 2 lynches. If it's 1-1, then it's a good bit tougher. Obviously if it's 0-2 then you go to lynch scum. It's something I've been thinking of since he joined but knew would depend on who's in his group and what the situation would be and (of course my alignment). It's by no means a flat out, LYNCH PALMER WITH FIRE TO GET INFORMATION UNDER EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE POLICY LYNCH. It's a strategy to maximize information but clearly situation dependent on where/when his group comes up and where we're sitting int he game. ~g No you just said you want to policy lynch them. You can't policy lynch them and lynch someone else. So you agree your first post was literally full of shit? This one: + Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 05:02 getmoript wrote:
So I've skimmed so far.
Cell 1
Raynpelikonoshi--Very tempted to lynch because I can't read Koshi and I don't think Rayn has called me super town yet
Gumshoe--solid player with alright reads generally but pretty obvious as scum
Steveling--???
Cell 2
Holyflare-scum
Tehpoofter--very good player, still adjusting to forum, low volume poster
mderg--?????
Cell 3
Palmar--strong player
Sentinel--I don't really remember him much
Coagulation--Policy lynch option, both lurkers
Cell 4
Balla24--meh
LSB--meh
Alakaslam--likely scum
Cell 5
Getmoript--clearly town, great at endgame, super stronk townie
prplhz--decent player, generally low volume, scummy first post
Cephiro--solid playler
Rayn I'm having a hard time reading Koshi... Why wouldn't he push himself for mayor on D1/0 whatever it is today?
Like Cell 2 is obviously the best first lynch. HF busses as scum and has ok reads as town. I'd love to policy lynch him and under no circumstances should he ever be allowed to mid-late game. Cell 3 should be the third lynch 100%. Palmar is someone who, for lack of a better lynch, we can lynch and then sheep his reads; I'm tempted to move this up to slot 2 because Palmer tends to get worse as time goes on. Cell 4 should probably be the second lynch though because they're mostly unreadable and I want to lynch Alakaslam so that makes that pretty easy. Cell 1 is clearly next because me and rayn usually click on things and in case town hasn't won by then me and Rayn should easily be able to finish it off or I'll hammer Rayn to win the game for town.
2->4->3->1->5 is clearly the best pattern and me/Cav should 100% be the mayor. Like it's obvious, I refuse to let anyone else be the mayor and will policy lynch anyone who goes against me as mayor. ~rayn No it wasn't. Me and Cav are clearly town here. You should obviously be reading me for town here. Like you say it's full of shit and completely ignore the fact that I want to lynch Alakaslam with fire; I'm nailed him every time and he's 100% the lynch from that group. Like you don't even get why I want to lynch prplhz. I don't even get why you're trying to bury me here. I cannot see you not supporting me here as town. Hmm. Raynpelikoshi, I am willing to be day1 lynch to prove dis wrong but I would rather not. Between Balla and LSB, who is more likely to be scum and why? You two (Balla, LSB) incriminate each other yeah? I can incriminate both of you if you want but I will probably fail I am aware this is scummy The read on Slam changed after having time to reread his filter. The read on Slam used to be: Is he having fun, if yes then town. But that's really an incomplete explanation. Slam subjectively has more fun playing mafia than he does as town. The difference is that as mafia he doesn't want to be lynched. As town, I don't think he cares. As town, he allows himself to be carefree so that he can enjoy playing. As scum, he doesn't because that's what gets him lynched. The two posts I've quoted, show off that carefree attitude. In these posts he's allowing himself to post whatever the fuck he's thinking; it's just him posting. That's town for him. Ps slam I think Balla is the scum in your group
I could swear its LSB but will let geript say goodnight I sleep see tomorrow
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On April 02 2014 12:45 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:16 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:43 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 11:37 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:30 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I am also going to say this last time poofer and i try to be as clear as possible.
What you are doing is this:
You are refusing to comment on the part of the game where it is statistically easiest for you to find mafia if you are town (and therefore prove your townieness) and where it's the hardest for you to hide if you are mafia.
Can you see why it's scummy?
~rayn Well I disagree I see if I refused to give them ever that it would be scummy but thats fine I'm moving on and reading the slam/LSB/Balla cell now. If you have many people telling you what you are doing is wrong, shouldn't that tell you that you are probably wrong? You need to comment on your cell as soon as you get the chance to, and since you have been "taking notes on your cell" it should be easy for you to do so. Furthermore, why do you disagree with what rayn just said? I disagree that temporarily holding back your ideas is scummy but I do agree never telling is scummy. (Mainly I had this idea that if i got scum I'd just tunnel my own group and do nothing else and I wanted to avoid letting people do that as mafia and this sounded like a good way to do it so I'm probably just arguing cause I want my idea to be right) Two things: #1: Is holding back your ideas hindering scum's abilities to play properly or is there any reason that you are actually holding back your ideas? If not, then you are only hindering town's ability to read you, so post what you think of your cell. #2 Like rayn said, it is EASIEST to read your cell, since you have a 50% chance of being correct therefore it is also hardest to hide within as mafia, since the people within your cell have a higher shot to read you. So you need to post about these people. On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:But after reading your filter you do seem more town like when we played that Newbie game forever ago with posts like this one: On April 02 2014 04:50 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 04:47 mderg wrote:On April 02 2014 04:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why.
Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town.I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette). I hate things like the bolded part, just doesn´t add anything. Everybody claims to be town. The analysis on yourself is interesting, I think it is very difficult to read peope who know their "town/scum features" Neither does your post. What exactly is the point of it? Are you calling sentinel scum because he is "claiming town"? I had highlighted that post by mderg in my normal read through and your comment I agree that his non conclusion on Sentinal is really weird like he wants to paint him as scum without actually using those words. Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town. I like that you seemed to on the same thought chain as me here. So atm in my cell I'm leaning HF=town and Mderg=scum. As far as your filter what do you read on slam Balla? Do you read him like rayn based off tone? You thought I was scum before reading my filter? Why? This makes no sense if you thought Slam was scum. Maybe i'm misreading the "but after reading your filter". I don't read Slam off of tone, I read him off of content. I'm 2/3 with him. When he posts mostly gibberish he is town when he posts somewhat related to the game he is mafia. That didn't work for me last game so I will be more careful, right now he is town but he's had a string of posts that are making me doubt that. Plus it's not that unreasonable for him to have been changing that meta on purpose. Which leads into LSB: he has talked a lot about setup and pushed a prplhz mafia angle for a little while. From what I've seen so far it is not totally unreasonable for him to be mafia. We will see what he does. Last thing to you poofter: you just directly contradicted what you have been preaching for the past couple of hours and asked me about someone in my cell even though from your PoV I shouldn't be commenting on people in my cell. What gives? I don't know you and rayn's alignment so I have to consider that you're attacking my plan because you're scum and know its a good idea or that you're town and my idea is shit. So The "after reading your filter" bit was me saying "well shit I read rayn as town and Balla now looks town maybe my idea was shit" so before you were neutral and I wanted you to comment on my idea after the read you both look town and so maybe my idea was bad. I have formally abandoned my plan because apparently it was bad so might as well use my town reads to figure out what they think and find out their views. You and rayn could be mafia and I'm misreading you both but since I've only played with a couple people in this game you and rayn being 2 of them and you were both town in the games I've played getting a read on you both as town and trusting your judgement seems like the best course of action. Basically I reassessed after reading your filter and am willing to try it you guys way.
Ok then, so moving on: what are your thoughts on Holyflare and mderg?
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On April 02 2014 12:51 Tehpoofter wrote:
@gumshoe So you baited rayn into reading you for lying? Is that what you're saying in one point in your case?
Im saying In a past game I played, I made a fake case to bait scum, not rayn specifically, rayn hammered me in that game for it, this game I did something similar, made up a case on steveling that I didnt really believe to see if hed want to gang up on the third person in his group. He didnt say anything damming, so I backed off, but hes coming after me now for that play, the same play that he knows I do as town he got me lynched for last time.
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On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
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Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included )  have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
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On April 02 2014 13:00 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing. I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
Come on now, I'm not talking shit, I'm talking about what I'm seeing.
The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing.
You display that confidence here:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
Like, I'm not arguing that rayn does not twist stuff like crazy to be in his favor as mafia and make stuff up out of thin air, he does that, it's true. I'm arguing that you guys going after each other hard and with confidence is not a scumtell like you are trying to make it out to be for rayn (and brushing it off when you do the same thing).
I understand the rest of your case, and while it's hard to follow it might be somewhat ok but that point isn't valid.
Let's move on: what do you think of some other cells, specifically Cell 2 and Cell 5 are the ones i'm most interested in.
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Holyflaire.
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
this game
i really don't think it matters, we just lynch through the people not on suki and win x_x
The last quote is from Holy's scum game in cultured mafia. Scum want town atmosphere to be one of two things, lax, or utterly chaotic. Lax especially if they feel they're in a good position, which Holy definitely is considering his cell mates are relative unknowns. Scum holy likes to present easy options, lets him minimize his contribution to the game, I'm not impressed with him so far, so hes my pick for scum over mdern.
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@gumshoe well, independent of the # of people attacking him do you townread him or scumread him? Your quote there doesn't really indicate either way whereas the rest do.
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EPT
