EPTVivax and thrawn, hope you guys don't want to lose.
Doctor Who Mafia 2 - Page 41
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
Vivax and thrawn, hope you guys don't want to lose. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 31 2014 03:02 Tehpoofter wrote: @ massclaiming Amiko summed up some of the different ways it could go and the reasonings seem good for not doing it helped me think through it. I like Amiko as town for that. I don't think rayn is town he is playing completely different to the game I play with him before. He was aggressive but I feel like his push on Slam is an easy low hanging fruit type push. Survivor might not be town but its not mafia finding mafia > lynching the survivor. Rayn also should know that we need to look outside of just Slam either way we have to deduce how people are acting today because in an alignment swapping type setup the way you act day to day flip flopping on reads and stuff can give town good information. I think that rayn is trying to deprive town of information by pushing a slam lynch, he also as I recalled as the super town hero he was last game I played posted a list of his reads as early as he did here. Rayn is there a reason you chose to do so early? (positing a reads list) My vote is here because of his push on Slam mainly and he just seems like he has a different town this game. ## unvote ## Vote: Rayn (1) Rayn is mafia. On March 31 2014 03:23 Tehpoofter wrote: Okay I misread this the first time and thought it was you saying you want to always lynch the survivor... not the survivor claim. So Rayn would you say that in a game with possible alignment changes lynching a mafia is crucial in case they can add to their team in some fashion or possibly hit a 3rd party role that can recruit for their own alignment as well? I feel like even if Slam was still confirmed Survivor in this setup I wouldn't want to lynch him day 1 I'd much rather want to lynch someone I found scummy that could be mafia or an anti-town third party converting type role that seems likely given the setup. (2) At no point have you become town, you're still scummy to tehpoofter. He adds that he doesn't want to lynch survivors or 3P claims, he wants to lynch scummy people. On March 31 2014 06:19 Tehpoofter wrote: (3) Slam shouldn't be the lynch. He's "safe" ---> except he's being pushed as safe by rayn, imo (he's either 3P or scum or just anti-town in general and "you have to lynch slam").I'll put it this way I don't think hes mafia here more than maybe 5% of the time. I think that he claimed way too passively and without care to be mafia. Mafia I feel like would use this claim in a situation where they're taking lots of pressure and he really wasn't under much I was one of the people voting him at the time and we were far from end of day. So to me its like 85% survivor/ 5% mafia 5% mafia 5% other. I am of the attitude that to me a successful day for town in this type of game is to hit a mafia. Like if we go to lynch a mafia I'll be 100% happy if we kill Slam and hes survivor I would be like 40% happy if we hit a town I would be 0% happy. So for me I feel like Slam is a safe lynch if we don't have a clear mafia at the end of the day but I don't want to default lynch him from right now when we might catch a scum slipping up and start this game off right. I want an ez game for town not one where we play struggling. Survivor is a super uninformative lynch imo. I mean there is also the chance hes like Fool or something and claims survivor knowing people like rayn would push on him as any alignment (no clue if fool is possible or w.e. but still) On March 31 2014 06:27 Tehpoofter wrote: (4) rayn might be scum.See thats a bad attitude Imo Rayn is only one person and he might be scum this game. Hes not the town hero he was in titanic this is a new game boys and you shouldn't just sheep rayn. The only way rayn gets what he wants is if you act like its a forgone conclusion. On March 31 2014 18:24 Tehpoofter wrote: (5) i want to hear your case. You're playing different from townrayn, etc.I would love to hear your bigger case rayn. This is what I mean that is different from last game... your heart is either not as into this game or you're a different alignment than last time. The rayn from the game I played was more than happy to bring up a whole case on someone even if it was a massive wall of texts and then scream at the town for not realizing they're scum. This isn't what you're doing this game... its different and its the only meta I know for you. The Way I play mafia is assessing how people play different alignments and roles and compare them between games along with the information in the thread to attempt to make a read. Thus far you are different than last game where you were basically the whole town. IF I have a read you do X as town and then you do Y instead should I draw a different conclusion? It's not a nice, straight line. But for someone who finds rayn scummy and wants rayn lynched, tehpoofter is doing very little else. When asked about other players, they are generally townie. When interacting with rayn, his scumread, rayn might be town. He's making very little effort to PUSH anyone off slam and onto rayn. He's making very little effort to PUSH anyone to vote rayn. He's making very little effort to even SEEM LIKE HE THINKS RAYN IS REALLY SCUM. rayn is his biggest scumread, but maybe is town? He doesn't seem to be looking at anyone else as possible scum. He got rolling a little bit and then has just sat, and the way he's sitting doesn't feel right if he thinks rayn is scum (PUSH rayn, especially when other people are doing so) nor does it feel right if he's worried rayn might be town (BE PROACTIVE, who else is scum?) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'd be interested in more full thoughts on vivax, on kitaman (if rayn is mafia, is kita pushing him for the right reasons, whatever), and maybe......amiko, because that name is kind of fun to write and think. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) Toad's townie-feeling post is enough for you to still be town on him? Or...basically, how do you currently feel about toad? (2) Do you want to be gumshoe's companion? Why/why not? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
raynpelikoneet (5) - Alakaslam (3) - Hopeless1der (1) - kitaman27 (1) - JarJarDrinks (0) - thrawn2112 (0) - Toadesstern (0) - Not Voting (4) - austinmcc, thrawn2112, Vivax, gumshoe Currently raynpelikoneet is set to be lynched! Day ends in at 21:00 GMT (+00:00). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: He's not "changing his mind," at least not to me. On the spectrum of town <----> scum, he changed from "scum" to "probably scum maybe town" or something like that. There's a chance you're town, but he doesn't seem to think you ARE, just you might be.It's far likely townies take that kinda logical missteps. Scum are far more concerned to keep their story straight. Dude, you played with him in the last game, he was way more laid back and looked way worse than he does now. Just because he is trying to be pro-active and changes his mind does not mean he is scum, in fact it's most likely the opposite at least for a relatively new player like poofer. If you want to look at newbies look at Amiko instead, he is far more conservative and not sticking his neck out there. That's fine, updated a read/changing a read is sexy, ain't no thang. But if his biggest scumread MIGHT be town, what's his response? He doesn't go...look for more scum. He doesn't seem to have any other scumreads. This is DESPITE wanting to find a good scumread to lynch over slam. Like, he's not on the slam lynch, because we shouldn't lynch slam when we have good scumreads. But his one good scumread appears to NOT be much of a scumread anymore, and there's no push to find any other scumreads. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
All the posts before back up that line of thought. Also it's me, it's completely reasonable he doesn't know what makes me mafia and what makes me town as he has played one game with me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he doesn't know what makes you mafia, and he doesn't know what to do with you, then what should he be doing upon realizing that?Like he basically says in his last post, "i don't know what i should think of you, how am i supposed to read you". All the posts before back up that line of thought. Also it's me, it's completely reasonable he doesn't know what makes me mafia and what makes me town as he has played one game with me. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
The biggest thing about rayn right now is how sure he is. I know that even with the case I have made, I'm not completely confident. He is sharing his reads with certainty with no evidence that he has looked at my past mafia games or questioned me at any point prior to me presenting the case. The biggest thing to address for him regarding my alignment is the shadow connection that I tried to make. Yet rather than suggesting that I tried to duplicate the town meta so that he would develop a town read on me, he ignores it completely. Onto hopeless: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 21:50 Hopeless1der wrote: nothing personal slam  ##Vote: Alakaslam On March 30 2014 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote: because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. On March 30 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: whered you go kita? do i need to go through the motions of "totes serious voting" to get a response? I didn't really think too much of the post that Toad/Foolishness pointed out. Hopeless shows signs of guilt with his slam vote. As a town player, I'd expect annoyance from slam's play, yet this comes off as slightly apologetic. His defense of rayn at the start I found scummy and these posts sound as if he is writing them as mafia to sound town, but I admit that is a weak line of reasoning here. On March 31 2014 23:47 Hopeless1der wrote: kita, rayn wants to 1v1 you. do you accept? On April 01 2014 00:02 Hopeless1der wrote: p.s. rayn revoted kita On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. These posts seem like the ideal mafia scenario if rayn is indeed town, which would be opportunistic from his perspective. He makes the assumption that if rayn flips town, I must be mafia. This is scummy because up until this point, he hasn't hinted at having a mafia read on me or having a problem with my case. In fact, he defends me explaining how I could coast along with the slam lynch. So there is a gap in logic here if he would be so open to my death. At first, I really thought that rayn and hope could be scum buddies. rayn exploded with anger about Toad's post. He then showed a defeated attitude, as if he had no choice but to vote hope for an incredibly, incredibly weak reason. As buddies, he would have to anticipate a huge wagon on hope at that point and I wasn't feel the sentiment at that time. Since then it seems less likely that they are both mafia, with a shifting read on hope to town from rayn and an attack on rayn from hope after my case. I would say that hope is scummy to me, but the discussion about the town vs town is all speculative, pre-flip analysis, which I'd want to avoid. The biggest point is how open he would be to see me die to enforce the 1v1 trade, without making any argument as to why we must be of opposite alignments. There wasn't enough here to make me move off of rayn here. I'd like to do vivax/djo next and see if austin's points have any merits. austin himself I've ignored for the most part and I'll likely continue to do so until a red flag pops up. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:51 austinmcc wrote: Come on come on, let's keep going. EIther you change my mind or I change yours or someone else chimes in and we learn stuff.If he doesn't know what makes you mafia, and he doesn't know what to do with you, then what should he be doing upon realizing that? If a guy has a scumread, then he's unsure of it, how does he follow up if he's town, real read, real worry that it's wrong, and how does he follow it up if he's scum, read was fake, either he finds it efficient to possibly change it or ... whatever. As he gets less sure of you, as town, I believe he should be looking for other scum. At the very least, he's VOTING a dude he isn't sure on, so he should want to make sure he's not mislynching. Where else does he look? How does he look? I see a couple little questions, to thrawn on djo, to me and JarJar, but not in ANY way that makes me think he finds JarJar or myself scummy, and the question to thrawn is about a townread of his. There's no...followup. A change of read is fine, but it should cause something to happen that I'm not seeing. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:51 austinmcc wrote: If he doesn't know what makes you mafia, and he doesn't know what to do with you, then what should he be doing upon realizing that? He thinks he knows but he doesn't. bah it's hard to explain. He thinks the stuff i do is scummy because he does not understnad it. I don't give a fuck so i don't explain it. He thinks it's more scummy. So what i do is scummy. But he is even willing to consider the possibility i am town and that he just does not know why he should read me as town. But that does not make me town, he still thinks i am scummy because of the stuff i have done. If he was scum he would just "keep his story straight" and say i am scum because of the stuff i do as noone can even hold him responsible for that - just because there is no way he can't know better unless he spends like 20 hours reading all my relevant games (and not only my filters). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:56 austinmcc wrote: If a guy has a scumread, then he's unsure of it, how does he follow up if he's town, real read, real worry that it's wrong, and how does he follow it up if he's scum, read was fake, either he finds it efficient to possibly change it or ... whatever. There's no...followup. A change of read is fine, but it should cause something to happen that I'm not seeing. Can't you make the same case against rayn? He finds my web suspicious, isn't sure about my alignment and then calls me stupid a bunch of times, rather than committing to a read. You saw marv do the same thing in shadow. At no point does he follow up with his read on my or attempt to ask me any direct questions until he goes from a 1-liner that I'm scummy to being 100% confident. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'm cool with that last paragraph and can see that as a reason for finding him town --> as scum he'd do this thing and he's not doing that thing, so he's more likely town.He thinks he knows but he doesn't. bah it's hard to explain. He thinks the stuff i do is scummy because he does not understnad it. I don't give a fuck so i don't explain it. He thinks it's more scummy. So what i do is scummy. But he is even willing to consider the possibility i am town and that he just does not know why he should read me as town. But that does not make me town, he still thinks i am scummy because of the stuff i have done. If he was scum he would just "keep his story straight" and say i am scum because of the stuff i do as noone can even hold him responsible for that - just because there is no way he can't know better unless he spends like 20 hours reading all my relevant games (and not only my filters). But I think it goes both ways. As town, I don't think this is the right action. Do you? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 01 2014 02:00 kitaman27 wrote: Not quite. Because rayn's doing a bunch of other stuff, whatever his read on you he's doing other things and trying to find scum elsewhere and blah blah blah. That other stuff is what's missing from poofter for me.Can't you make the same case against rayn? He finds my web suspicious, isn't sure about my alignment and then calls me stupid a bunch of times, rather than committing to a read. You saw marv do the same thing in shadow. At no point does he follow up with his read on my or attempt to ask me any direct questions until he goes from a 1-liner that I'm scummy to being 100% confident. rayn is not...lacking for scumreads. Poofter is, if he isn't sure on rayn. | ||
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