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On February 27 2014 05:52 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta? I think he's town but that's only based on his post about having to go to his computer to post or something. WaveofShadowHolyflare gumshoe Ange777 ToadessternCavalinho JarJarDrinks TheChyz soft tho suki raynpelikoneetMocsta soft tho Vivax GeriptSo what do yout hink about suki and gumshoe? I haven't really looked at them.
I really don't like Mocsta's posting at all. His reasoning for calling people scum or discrediting them is what he does as scum. Yes gumshoe could be mafia. suki is a wildcard at the moment, i need her to post more and actually comment on what she wants to comment on and not what other people want her to comment on.
What is it that you don't like about Holyflare?
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On February 27 2014 05:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
JJD why is originality of one's case important? IDK, I guess it isn't after thinking about it. Scratch that part then. My only defense about following thread sentiment is that it's coincidental. I dont know what else I can say.
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On February 27 2014 05:53 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:49 Toadesstern wrote:On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta? bottom three in my list together with HF and geript. Not really able to write more than 2 or 3 liners while playing PC though. also adding to this, you seem to agree with a lot of what mocsta is saying but he's also in your bottom three over people like chyz that everyone and their mother has been discussing? don't get it
ctrl-f mocsta my filter and tell me where.
The only time I "agree" with him is this:
On February 26 2014 22:09 Toadesstern wrote:
oh Mocsta already came to the rescue. Good boy.
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On February 27 2014 05:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:52 geript wrote:On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta? I think he's town but that's only based on his post about having to go to his computer to post or something. WaveofShadowHolyflare gumshoe Ange777 ToadessternCavalinho JarJarDrinks TheChyz soft tho suki raynpelikoneetMocsta soft tho Vivax GeriptSo what do yout hink about suki and gumshoe? I haven't really looked at them. I really don't like Mocsta's posting at all. His reasoning for calling people scum or discrediting them is what he does as scum. Yes gumshoe could be mafia. suki is a wildcard at the moment, i need her to post more and actually comment on what she wants to comment on and not what other people want her to comment on. What is it that you don't like about Holyflare?
I think it's because he only liked one point against Toad and pooped on the rest. Probably tunnel vision.
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I'm pretty decently ok with JJD atm.
JJD what do you make of me v Vivax?
You were the one who brought up the point against him originally, do you think his defense is adequate? Do you think his attack on me is justified?
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since the list-posting mood seems to go around, here's mine:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5MykQlm.png)
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honestly WoS is probably between "probably town" and "townie as shit" but didn't want to get a 4th green color.
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Toad explain the Vivax read.
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he's trying to make me calm down
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On February 27 2014 05:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:53 Holyflare wrote:On February 27 2014 05:49 Toadesstern wrote:On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta? bottom three in my list together with HF and geript. Not really able to write more than 2 or 3 liners while playing PC though. also adding to this, you seem to agree with a lot of what mocsta is saying but he's also in your bottom three over people like chyz that everyone and their mother has been discussing? don't get it ctrl-f mocsta my filter and tell me where. The only time I "agree" with him is this: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 22:09 Toadesstern wrote:
oh Mocsta already came to the rescue. Good boy.
I also want an answer to this.
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Here's a chronology of posts that displays something being foul about gum and WoS.
On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn. Something JJD said reminded me of something: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.)
Town should always be considering all options.
In fact, gumshoe IS offering the alternate scenario where suki isn't scum, and offering her the explanations for her behaviour in that case, hence WoS is actually stating the contrary to what I stated. He says town should be considering all options, I say if you find somebody scummy you don't call it out and then put an explanation out there that the accused can use against your own argument.
I'm reading this as if WoS wants to say that what gumshoe is doing is scummy, when in fact he's doing the contrary of what WoS states. He is actually considering all options, if you put it in WoS' way.
On February 26 2014 11:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wormhole.
Gumshoe, let's get a read from you on someone that doesn't depend mostly/solely on meta.
He asks gumshoe to not use meta. Gumshoe won't deliver.
On February 26 2014 11:41 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:40 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 11:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:36 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game? If u r town I don't like at all what our doing.
Which is.
Crating an atmosphere of intimidation
If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightestGumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons. Did u read a thing he wrote? On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn. Something JJD said reminded me of something: On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.) Town should always be considering all options. I agree w/ this assesment. Also I find it odd that he seems to give moc a townread for some pretty terrible reasoning. Especially since IMO, moc has been acting pretty scummy. So... in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy. in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie. in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town. Congratz JJD. Scum slip? Are you now copying your early case on DP from vengeful? You criticise Wave for saying some silly nonsense and saying if you're town why do that because it doesn't solve gumshoe's alignment or anything. Yet, same page of filter here you are saying nonsense to JJD who is bringing up points on other players. By your own reasoning townies shouldn't do that so why the change of heart so soon? Or are you sticking to what you said? "TOWN" don't do that! Hypocrisy doesn't necessarily come from scum, you know that. I do want to hear Mocsta's response though. ##Vote: gumshoe
Votes before gumshoe even answers.
On February 26 2014 11:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I find Wave's vote on gumshoe to be absolute crap.
Rayn raises the FOS.
On February 26 2014 11:49 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wormhole.
Gumshoe, let's get a read from you on someone that doesn't depend mostly/solely on meta. , if I see something scummy I will let you know. I have pointed out a few things that have intrigued me because I felt they would generate discussion, and kept back a few others because it is early in the game and I rather see them unfold on there own. If your worried about contribution from me, don't be, I love posting try hard cases when I have them( and I will have them, I assure you that) even as scum. I will contribute when I have something to contribute. I am not going to call you out as scum just because your pressuring me ( not a bad thing on in of itself) but understand that rushing me to produce something that doesn't exist is likely to result in either me getting picked apart for a sloppy play( Something you've been witness to often enough) or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
Upon metaless case request, gumshoe refuses, gives reasons.
On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? That's a pretty martyr-y post. I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now. HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green?
And after rayn raises the FOS and gumshoe replied something that doesn't fulfill WoS wishes, he not only doesn't keep inquiring, he even goes as far as giving him a townread.
Now look at how WoS treats me when I don't give him what he wants about the current lynch candidate. It's a day and night difference in how he treats a gumshoe scumspect and a vivax scumspect.
Rayn, I'm surprised you dropped WoS so quickly after all of this happened.
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Using oldish meta, but Vivax is probably both town and 100% wrong on his points.
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What's the difference in how Wave handles scumspects Vivax/gumshoe?
You are not really pointing out what it is.
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On February 26 2014 17:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:Here is where Mocsta makes a big fucking post on suki: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:57 Mocsta wrote:hmmm started off by wanting to write a case on Suki but now ended up as nullish.Anyways for reference: + Show Spoiler +(1) On February 26 2014 09:08 suki wrote:
Hey guys, so I moved my thing that I had tonight to Wednesday day/night so I'm here now.
I had to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird but anyways I'm Harry Potter. My power is I can shoot ##spells at people and make them do things. If we lynch correctly I learn new spells.
Right now my spell list is:
##Expeliarmus - Makes target sheeping player provide reasoning on their vote otherwise they have to unvote. For me, if you want to fake claim, you just do it. "I am HP, I have #spells" blah blah . The addition of "having to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird" is verbose and the type of fluff I find people write to make themselves feel safe with a lie <--- indicative of a mafia mindset.
(2) On February 26 2014 09:38 Mocsta wrote:
Sukmi
U seem most out of place for me so far
Everyone else is relatively carefree whereas u seem more try hard - in particular your claim is overly worded
I get the history with toad, but your approach is not conducive towards gleaning alignment either
On February 26 2014 09:42 suki wrote:
So are you saying I'm scummy? On February 26 2014 09:43 Mocsta wrote:
Scummiest so far, yes On February 26 2014 09:47 suki wrote:
So then why isn't your vote on me? On February 26 2014 09:55 Mocsta wrote:
This is an unusually passive aggressive approach for early game.-
And something I throw out as scum all the time.
Instead of trying to understand if my read on u is genuine or feigned, u play the psychological game and twist my lack of vote as something scummy. That diversion is it self very scummy.
Now suki, were u aware harry potter is not in the game?? On February 26 2014 10:01 suki wrote:
lol what.
##vote Mocsta
I never said anything you were doing so far was scummy, so who is twisting whose words? You, on the other hand, seem really intent on twisting the things I say to be scummy.
Also I'm Harry Potter, of course I'm in the game. (and for the record I'm a different Harry Potter than the game rayn linked). I've read this exchange a couple times and come to the same conclusion... null. I completely agree with what I wrote: "so then why isn't your vote on me?" is very passive aggressive for early Day1 and is a precursor to calling somebody scum. HOWEVER, I can't shake the feeling that Suki is retorting emotionally/personally -- which ties in with being called not Suki prior -- and thus makes me consider this is a townie going passive aggressive based on anger.
(3) The rest of the filter makes me lean town somewhat. Im leaning towards I haven't communicated my position well, and Suki has interpreted me the wrong way. Now it's quite clear he has put a lot of thought into this case (regardless of the conclusion) if he is town. Okay, that means he has read suki's posts with thought and this is not a "okay let's just throw something from the top of my head" type of a post. The only thing suki posts after this is "I still think Mocsta is my #1 scumread. cya tomorrow". This is something that is at best a null post for town!Mocsta because it doesn't really say anything new. This is what Mocsta posts next: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 16:34 Mocsta wrote:
Caught up and re-read
Current reads:
Wave
Suki
Gumshoe
Calvalinho
toadesstern
ange777
jarjardrinks
vivax
geript
Holyflare
thechyz
rayn
Will expound in a bit. swamped @ work. Now, suddenly, suki is his top 2 town read, which makes no sense based on what suki has done between these two posts from Mocsta. Possible explanations for contradiction are: - The first post is in fact not so thought out Mocsta implies -> Mocsta is mafia because there is no town motivation to make that kind of a post if he in fact has just skimmed through the posts and not paid real attention.
- The second post where he says suki is suddenly town is a leap of logic -> Mocsta is mafia because townies do not change their mind for no reason.
Now, there is no fucking reason why Mocsta would go from reasoning(post1) to reasoning(post2) unless one of the above is true.
geript comment on this, the bullet points are the important part which Mocsta most likely deliberately ignored.
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On February 27 2014 06:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's the difference in how Wave handles scumspects Vivax/gumshoe?
You are not really pointing out what it is.
WoS votes gumshoe, asks for metaless case. Gumshoe says he has some stuff at hand but waits for it to unfold. WoS becomes entirely disinterested into his request and gives him a townread.
JJD asks me about Chyz, I say I have a not-scumread, but I won't expand on it cause it would be counterproductive in my eyes for the aforementioned reasons. According to WoS I am withholding information from town and scummy.
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On February 26 2014 11:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Well this is a bad post. Are you going to tell me now that all our IRC conversations about Toad were lies? In my opinion, if you are town, and you dont respect a players ability as town you tend to avoid reading their alignment (e.g. Slam) Early game you are chasing ppl you feel confident about reading that can help you. Frankly, the reason I asked your opinion on wave was because I thought we could be useful together if you are town since we just played scum together. Given that decision I took, it is indeed odd to me you did the same but with Toad.
In case anyone wonders because I've been mostly spending my time on geript and didn't get to explain more in detail. The above is one of the main reasons I don't like mocsta atm.
This post makes very little sense from a town PoV imo. Okay I get that Rayn doesn't respect my townplay and I would have guessed so. Now I don't know what those irc talks are about but telling him to ignore me is just bullshit. Rayn doesn't respect my townplay, no shit sherlock, if he did he'd be voting geript right now...
But not respecting my townplay doesn't mean he should just toss me in a corner and not try to read me. That's one of the most anti-town idea's I've ever read.
I can actually say the feeling's quite mutual and I think rayn is aware of that. I am sure he knows I'm taking digs at him for being wrong A LOT in... I always forget the name... the parity cop game I already referenced. Still I do end up with a read on him and Mocsta isn't holding that against me.
The reason that's a yellow and not an orange in my sheet is because I have no idea what thse irc talks were like but anyways, don't like that sentiment.
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On February 27 2014 06:21 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 06:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's the difference in how Wave handles scumspects Vivax/gumshoe?
You are not really pointing out what it is. WoS votes gumshoe, asks for metaless case. Gumshoe says he has some stuff at hand but waits for it to unfold. WoS becomes entirely disinterested into his request and gives him a townread. JJD asks me about Chyz, I say I have a not-scumread, but I won't expand on it cause it would be counterproductive in my eyes for the aforementioned reasons. According to WoS I am withholding information from town and scummy.
Hmm okay that makes more sense.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 27 2014 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:59 Toadesstern wrote:On February 27 2014 05:53 Holyflare wrote:On February 27 2014 05:49 Toadesstern wrote:On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta? bottom three in my list together with HF and geript. Not really able to write more than 2 or 3 liners while playing PC though. also adding to this, you seem to agree with a lot of what mocsta is saying but he's also in your bottom three over people like chyz that everyone and their mother has been discussing? don't get it ctrl-f mocsta my filter and tell me where. The only time I "agree" with him is this: On February 26 2014 22:09 Toadesstern wrote:
oh Mocsta already came to the rescue. Good boy. I also want an answer to this.
It's not so much agreeing per se but more the fact that the only reason you start to jump on mocsta is because of something i wrote (scum slip thing) and then when he explains it you completely drop your initial suspicion and talk over points with him and instead of getting to the bottom of motives you instead just disagree or point out why you think what he is saying is wrong/not possible. It doesn't look like an interaction with someone in your "bottom 3" scum suspects at all.
Then there's your read on me... which is.... just lol
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No I get that read coming from Moc. Again I'm not super town on him, but I know how he could transition between those reads after thinking about it. I actually think the scummiest thing (a few times at that) that Moc has said was about Suki's question, "if I'm scum to you why aren't you voting for me?" Moc has off and on used that as a heuristic for catching scum. Even if it isn't a good one him insta reading her scum for that question felt really weird from town Moc.
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And now that you've looked at those posts and the townread WoS gave gumshoe after ONE post, gumshoe writes this:
I fail to see your issue, what's more in past games we've played, you were aware of my lurker meta yet never treated me as hostilely as this. Have I pissed you off somehow? Because you came out of the gates swinging at me ( a target so easy that if I'm not being attacked I'm probably scum) and you haven't stopped, using every bit I post to reinforce your baseless confirmation bias.
How does this make any sense??? WoS has been treating gumshoe as if he'd die from a slap on the wrist, and gumshoe goes all victim-mode.
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EPT
