EPT"##" Mafia - Page 61
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:16 Promethelax wrote: I wrote that before SnB did it. But yes. I did. you should no longer Yolo me. I also see that WoS is the hot lynch now without my help. So woo! Well I'm glad I was paying attention.  | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
my method was to look at his long posts. he always makes big long posts combined with a bunch of short useless one liners. however, his big post this game + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2013 05:10 Pandain wrote: Marv is striking me as very town, which is very exciting for me. Usually I would think it would be hard to read Marv since he's such a good player, but even if he's scum he's still making really good points which, as long as we continue to judge them, will work in town favor. + Show Spoiler + He has also already posted 6 pages worth of shit, and they're all good. Indicative of town He really thought hard about Prom and I love what he said about Prom being way too cocky, I actually had a null read on him but now I think I have a moderate town read on him, probably not as "sure" in it as Marv. + Show Spoiler + he also wasn't a dick to me Originally I disagreed with Seuss being scummy but now I agree, with some addendums. Here is Marv's post: However I disagree with this slight suspicion of Seuss. Now if Seuss had written out his post during the course of 5 hours and thought very clearly and wanted to be 100% consistant, it would be suspicious (though still not scummy). His bolded statement mirrored my thoughts and is a defendable statement even if it isn't 100% justifiable since yes some people need others for their powers. The underlined is clearly just poor reading and doesn't indicate scum. The red statement is interesting however and important to think about. There are better reasons to be suspicious of Seuss Very poor post, list format instead of comprehensive. Also what is the middle paragraph which is a basic "I don't know." Also his other posts are really wishy-washy and constantly changing. I do think he's worth looking out for though shouldn't be a lynch target today. I do agree Clarity is suspicious, made a poor post which only focused on one person. It is so incredibly assumption based and wouldn't be what I expect Clarity to be suspicious of. He says Oats is suspicious because he didn't add to what someone else said. I don't know why but this post bothers me Then Marv calls him out and he immediately back tracks I also think Koshi is suspicious. Where is carefree Koshi? He's so defensive. He also isn't attempting to buddy Rayn which I have seen in all my past games which I'm pretty sure they've both been in them all. feels different for me to his big posts in his scum games + Show Spoiler + On September 23 2013 02:33 Pandain wrote: Of all the players so far mentioned, I think [UoN to be the most suspicious] and heavily heavily urge others to re-read him. He is self-contradictory(not like FT who while I think is somewhat suspicious is more inherently consistant). + Show Spoiler + On September 22 2013 05:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Back from work as promised. Things I know: People who have not contributed - some might be lurking, others may have forgotten they signed up for this game: gumshoe Chairman Ray Cephiro Xzavier Onegu Zenatsu Risen iamp said he wanted to be replacement, what happened to that? Meapak_Ziphh - should really consider linking the filters in the list of signups. It's hard to bring up a bunch of filters when you have to manually type in the URL. Stutters695 - Stutters, like myself, doesn't like kush in this game. I'm actually curious as to why kush suddenly engages actively in the thread, and I agree with the fact that he's being thread police instead of being productive in the townfinding effort. What I don't like is how hard Stutters is tunneling kush. Every post in his filter at the time of this post is directed at lynching kush, or begging others to join the bandwagon, and nothing else. I would like to see what you think of other players Stutters. Coagulation - still completely fucking useless. Other than his "summary of today", which doesn't contribute anything to scumhunting and doesn't even summarize much, he has nothing. Here are his accusations: I would like to see some good evidence for lynching either pandain or geript. The marv thing isn't really an accusation since he's kinda warming up to him and accusing him with some of the least imposing language possible. So three accusations with zero bite, plus a summary, means he might as well have been lurking. Actually it's worse because when you lurk you may have an excuse, whether legit or not. Coag's been reading and posting and still has nothing to say. ##Vote Coagulation This is a very typical "list" analysis type which scum posts to seem like they're reading thread and on top of things, and then in reality they are not contributing. Doesn't say much and contradicts himself earlier; he says Kush is not productive while earlier he said he was. Weak Don't know how to feel except like he knew he had a bad argument Weak, changes again, seems like he doesn't actually know what's going on. I'm also sorry I can't contribute more as of right now, I have too much work to do to go to in depth in analysis with contextual meta and relational play. For right now, as stand alone posts, Sentinel is the most suspicious to me. For others sake, let them know I am currently suspicious of DP for playing more poorly than I would expect and contrary to what he says actually shitting up thread and poor reasoning; I heavily believe Yamato is town; I would rather wait on Koshi as I like him and he has a valid excuse for being away scum or not; I am suspicious of CC still and believe OO is town now. I think Vayne is playing too trolly to be actually scum and I'm wondering where VE is at the moment. + Show Spoiler + As an aside, I disagree with Marv and believe we should not vig at random + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2013 05:27 Pandain wrote: I have read several of Yamato's DAY ONES as town and have noted several town trends: Town Day One Play:Comprehensive in outlook, can tunnel but comments on all things Aperture + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2013 21:51 kitaman27 wrote: This was a very poor way to enter the thread. FOS Onegu On August 30 2013 22:02 yamato77 wrote: WoS you are kinda playing weird. On August 30 2013 22:38 yamato77 wrote: oh, this was kita's first post actually, he is a good lynch. On August 31 2013 07:04 yamato77 wrote: Caught up, things to reply to: Calls me scum for my interactions with WoS that look like scum interacting with scum, but doesn't think WoS is scum in the same post. Bullshit. Would lynch. Better list: kita/Ceph/geript/Risen Not lurkers, but actual possible mafia. Still might be scum, is definitely obsessed with the idea that VA is 3P. Claim makes no sense from VA but this dude is definite suspect. Added Felkyr to list. I agree that his post looks like mafia. Good work CC. Risen's opening posts are also horrible. CC best town. Agree with BH here to an extent. Weary of wily scum BH. Kita still maybe scum, more interested in speculating setup that scum WOULDN'T know 100% about than actually finding mafia. Geript scum with that unlynchable claim for sure. Desert Mini Mafia - I know less appliable because of mini but still note: + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. On August 30 2013 08:18 yamato77 wrote: Giant post inc RE: Marvellosity/Hapahauli This post is Hapa's read on Marv. It's also entirely truthful in Hapa's assessment of scum Marv's play. We've talked about this before on skype many times, and he's said that this is how he "catches" scum Marv. What I disagree with is his conclusion, that this game is somehow NOT indicative of this scum-Marv attitude. Not holier-than-thou, eh? I beg to differ. Like I said, Hapa is either not reading closely enough (never seen town Hapa do this) or has already decided Marv's alignment (town Hapa wouldn't do this either). My post wasn't "fail-logic". I know what I'm talking about. As a follow up to this read, Hapa posts this: 1 Bitchy isn't somewhat of a holier-than-thou way of acting? If all you do is complain about the play of others, doesn't that imply that you put yourself on a pedestal above them? 2 Doesn't this sort of contradict your earlier assessment of his scum play? And it doesn't seem like he's agreeing, for the most part, with the most vocal/influential players in the game (yourself, rayn to an extent)? Notably, he's largely avoided interacting with me about my reads. He didn't even respond to my post until you asked him to. Doesn't that seem a bit off? Also, on the topic of debears, you said this: It's not so much that you're going after someone (in fact I expect you to do that), it's that you picked someone already under some pressure (debears) and the post you made about him was... lackluster. For reference: This post is bad OVERALL, not just in its suspicion of debears. I've already commented on that. But specifically, why are debears' suspicions of Scib so hard to understand if you only have him as null? And did you read his scum game YANMM (that debears was in)? He started out in a similar fashion to this game with policy talk and a general "pro-town" style. It's not unsubstantiated if you know the context. But you didn't bother to ask, did you? Plus, when the fuck do you say "darrrrrrn scummy" when talking about mafia? Why is debears voting for Scib somehow scummy when deebs is plainly stating the scum motivations he sees? Post reeks of bullshit, Hapahauli. Notably, it's also your first post of the game, and I KNOW you have a hard time getting going as scum. That's why I was suspicious of you in the first place, and your Marv read is just another red flag. RE: Debears Deebs is someone who played when I started. Like I said, he also played in YANMM as SK with scib, so I don't see anything wrong with how he approached sciberbia in the early game. It's something I noticed as well, but didn't put as much stock into. Debears is notorious for tunneling early D1 and getting reads off that, so I'm totally fine with his play thus far in the game and wouldn't worry about him unless he becomes far less active. RE: Scib In YANMM he made a setup-focused post like this one as his first post and it rang some alarms but I, in my noob days, ignored it because of how bad people generally were in my NMM games. To see it again this game is somewhat disturbing, but like I said, it's not damning. These consecutive posts feel weird. I did indeed respond to him, he just either didn't get the hint (I was suspicious of Marv) or was downright ignoring my posts and threw shit at me for nothing. I even explained my read on Marv at some point, as he noted in this post, yet he never attempted to disagree with me, he just shat on my read and said I wasn't "engaging in the discussion" (read: contributing to the spam-fest). No really that important either, just plain odd. Other than that, most of his filter is arguing with Rayn/Debears which is not what I'd expect from a scum scib that I remember to have been rather quiet. He's also obviously affected emotionally by the posts of others at times and seems interested in actually finding mafia. He posts some weird things, but I generally don't like to get caught up in semantics with people who play this game that I don't know that well. If there's anyone else worth talking about, ask. I'll broaden my horizons because Hapa/Marv (even if I am right) can't be the only scum. Note I don't think him having long posts is an indicator, merely that he's more comprehensive in his outlook, something you don't need to do as scum and can just pick specific people in order to appear active. On August 30 2013 08:44 yamato77 wrote: Is he really, though? It seems like he wants to use these back-and-forth exchanges more as an avenue to shit on my play and my reads than to actually get anything useful out of it. If I am right about him, there is plenty of motivation for scum-Marv to want to discredit me when town-Marv is usually more cooperative even when I am tunneling him, in the recent past. Why the change this game in his response, and his overall attitude as compared to his recent play? On August 30 2013 22:04 yamato77 wrote: I'm not thrilled with a Syl lynch. I've never seen him post his much, ever. Something tells me he wouldn't pick his scum game to start tryharding. Hopeless I still have yet to read, but honestly FT is not a terrible lynch. Scum Day One Play: Not really interested in helping town lynch someone. Persona + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2013 09:02 yamato77 wrote: Honestly I'm just tired of people calling each other scum and arguing about it for days. I don't know how many times I have to tell people that this is fucking pointless. This is the main thing which you should get from this. In addition, you should read the thread itself. I actually think Yamato plays a very good game here, but the problem is that he appeared comprehensive, but he wasn't actually trying to get someone lynched. That doesn't seem to be his goal, merely a coincidence that agreed with the posts he was making. Wasn't actively trying to make people respond, get them thinking about Vayne for instance when he pushed him. GoT Mafia + Show Spoiler + Basically didn't post much, didn't actively push for his lynches. Evidently didn't care. Read it here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047&user=yamato77&view=all Policy Lynches He pushed two in Desert Mini Mafia as town. He pushed for others to join him and seemed sincere . Namely, Rayn and Marv. As mafia, there is not much to go on. But he did make a mention of "possibly voting kush as policy lynch" but then never followed up on it in Persona mafia. + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2013 10:09 yamato77 wrote: Usually I don't even bother reading the thread when it gets as stupid as it has now, but I did. Because I'm a masochist. All of you fighting among yourselves and arguing with people you think are scum are making my head hurt. Thankfully, there are a few things worth responding to: Vayne's first post is suspect. His most definitive read is a 3P read (wtf?) on a player already under suspicion. Why is he so strongly considering the possibility of a 3P? As with Rayn before, the preoccupation with reads that aren't in the town<--->scum continuum is something worth noting. The rest of his post is notably garbage and he has yet to substantiate anything he's said so far. Definitely flying under the radar due to the massive blip of a shitstorm Rayn/DP/WoS created. As for the Rayn/WoS situation, I'm not sold on the WoS=scum theory. Rayn's entire case is based on the idea that a person should always play as they do as town given a similar situation. Funny enough, it is the SAME rationale DP used to accuse Rayn, yet was ultimately dropped. Do I need to explain why these meta reads are fucking terrible or can we all agree to stop being bad and scumhunt with more conventional means? And yet no one wanted to policy lynch him. Offer is still on the table btw. Other general notes Read this:right here from boardwalk and contrast to his current game of town. Overall a clear example of involved Yamato vs. Apathetic Yamato who tries to be an involved Yamato. Persona is a slight disagreement with my theory, but supports it in that Yamato isn't actually trying to get anyone lynched. I don't get the impression. He makes posts but isn't involved. So what does it mean I have to get going soon but evidently look at Yamato, he didn't really push for Vayne to get policy lynched merely voted him and gave a single comment. Not same as he does in town. Here is his filter: Here. More response then commentary, targets specific people rather than overall try to figure out who's town and who's scum. Tunneled Grack for a bit and that's it. Yamato is playing like scum in that he isn't actively caring, as demonstrated by his previous day one play, recent from all his recent games excluding TL Noir. Vote Yamato it's like, in scum games he is more focused - when he's scum, he's trying to look townie, and he makes more of the surface motions of townie analysis than he does when he actually is town + Show Spoiler + On September 15 2013 12:04 Pandain wrote: Hey guys, remember that we haven't won yet, even though it's starting to look really good. Let's keep up the good town atmosphere. Your posts should make points, this allows us to help analyze you later and also you share your thought process! I'm going through what, first, is the obvious choice. Lynch OP . His original posts following the thread: show or indicate a mindset where he is willing to give up. As in, he doesn't believe he can prove he's town. Furthermore, I actually do agree there is a chance that there are two survivors. I never rule out the impossible. However, it is indicative he is scum because of the retroactive effect, the less likely there are two be two survivors, the more that he's scum. Alright, makes sense. To me he's going to end up scum because I can't see there being two KP. If both scum and SK hit townies, without blue intervention, town could only have two mislynches, which is pretty harsh. So for further analysis during this day we should assume he's scum, although again it's not certain and if wrong we need to re-evaluate things. Kush is certain scum to me. His post here reveals he knew scum had fake claims. He later explains here: There's no way he asks this when he gets his role. Why would anyone ever do that on this planet. This alone is enough for me, but I will also add that he doesn't give a shit, is actively trolling, but then says he will try and play serious. He is doing a persona of a troll rather than an actual troll. But again, the above was enough for me anyway. Koshi is town His posts are too genuine. Here is his filter. Here you go! Like Rayn, he posts a shit-ton, but however unlike Rayn you see a logical progression of ideas and they always have an immediate point and an intent to promote discussion. If you have questions about this please ask me and I'll go more in detail with specific posts. Umasi is town Doesn't post much, but is attempting to promote discussion, albeit late because he was a replacement. Also Goodkarma struck town to me as he correctly identified the pointless koshi/grack/va/snb situation. This post to me seems like he's attempting to generate discussion: He pressures blub, but rather than go afk eventually or even stick with "he's suspicious," he actually changes to the scum that we now know in OP Rayn I'm a lot less suspicious of Rayn, honestly. To be frank most of my analysis was that he was disrupting the thread, and trying to nail everyone who I thought was town. But him on OP is one of the main tells that he's town, he actively didn't vote for blub(or zealos, if we assume zealos is town), despite an active presence in the thread. This vote, disregarding on what he says, indicates to me he is probably town. where he feels more genuine, but that means he's less focused and less driven to make specific cases. this makes me rethink my previous read on him. like, even though it would be more rational for a scum to act like he did around his rayn read than for a town, the tone of his filter makes me doubt that scum read. so i dont want to lynch him today anymore. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol SnB just claimed scum. Can we lynch SnB guys? ##unvote ##vote SnB i assume youre referring to the clarity thing. how is it scummy to want him to replace out. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
So SnB, what do you think about my WoS case? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
In nine minutes WoS looked through all my games. Nine minutes for him to realize he was full of shit. Or he knew it from the beginning. WoS was full of shit from the beginning. WoS is scum ##logic Where did WoS say he looked into your games? I don't understand this argument given the quotes. And this: I find this really weird, this is not the first time he was brought up 3p so far this game. I'd say he either is 3p or is aware of its existence. Along with that his OOh 'placeholder' vote was the fourth vote on OOOh and he hadn't commented before at all. I don't like that particular vote. In fact, I rather like WoS as scum. Or 3p. Anti town any ways. Aren't you basically doing the same thing you accuse WoS of here? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:16 Promethelax wrote: You being less sure of me than Oats is funny as fuck. Explain it. Part of it is I spent a lot more time looking at Oats because of my initial read, so I'm more familiar/comfortable with him at this point. I'll admit that he gets brownie points for dissecting a post Pandain made which involved an attack on me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Prome you say some stufdf that i can't understand. this: Where did WoS say he looked into your games? I don't understand this argument given the quotes. And this: Aren't you basically doing the same thing you accuse WoS of here? as to the bold: look in his spoiler in that quote to the italics: yes I voted OOH as a pressure vote with a reason. WoS voted OOOH fourth as a placeholder. You don't see the difference? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:24 marvellosity wrote: Seuss, I want to know who you want to lynch sooner rather than later. You're flapping around. I'd like to lynch Wave, but I was holding on to my vote because I didn't want to hop on the train when he hasn't had the chance to defend himself. The case against him is pretty strong. Given that we collectively believe Clarity and OOHCHILD to be bad-town, my next choice would be [UoN]Sentinel. The shenanigans with his power don't sit well with me, and Pandain looks more like he's playing poorly than playing scum. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:31 Seuss wrote: I'd like to lynch Wave, but I was holding on to my vote because I didn't want to hop on the train when he hasn't had the chance to defend himself. The case against him is pretty strong. Given that we collectively believe Clarity and OOHCHILD to be bad-town, my next choice would be [UoN]Sentinel. The shenanigans with his power don't sit well with me, and Pandain looks more like he's playing poorly than playing scum. Didn't stop you from "pressuring" OOHCHILD did it? Why the difference? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
OOHCHILD (dude you said you didn't think was scum) Clarity (guy having a bitchfit) --- Not... stellar. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:33 marvellosity wrote: Your voting history is this, Seuss: OOHCHILD (dude you said you didn't think was scum) Clarity (guy having a bitchfit) --- Not... stellar. The thing is the awful buddying that has been WoS ---> Suess I don't see that as a two scum interaction. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Strong and Big is scum. Discuss. So SnB comes in, calls people town and then argues a bit about Pandain being scum with marv. not a strong start here. Disappears and then posts this. Which really rustled my jimmies. On October 30 2013 00:40 strongandbig wrote: weird question. i think i was scum with oats in a game where he kept asking people to read him. am i remembering correctly? does he do this as town as well? idk, but suspicious. still leaning town on him though also ##Twerk you should've said something. ##Yolo Promethelax you should've said something but w/e catching up with the thread atm, on page 50, rather lynch clarity than oohchild atm, still kind of think pandain is scum but i'll filter him once i catch up, could oohchild be OO? doesn't matter but would be punny. He throws suspicion on me for something that he misread. Why would he throw suspicion on me but not follow it up with any questions or try and figure out if there was anything else scummy about my play? Also, I kinda dont like the 'rather lynch who than who', because it still leaves the option of changing your mind and not looking bad. Also here is the switch on his read on Pandain. Hes scared that pandain(scum) might actually be lynched so he wants to flip his read around and decides to randomly filter Pandain and not any other people. Odd? Yes. Very odd. On October 30 2013 00:56 strongandbig wrote: also something I didn't see from clarity - is he going to start playing more later in the game or is this all we're getting out of him? cause if he's not going to commit to ever playing differently then he really needs to replace out or get lynched tomorrow, we just can't allow someone who's playing like that to live to LYLO. but i'm okay with not lynching him today. Also here, he doesnt give a read on Clarity, this is a policy lynch on a townie. Nothing here says that clarity is scum and we should lynch scum. He doesnt think clarity is scum. This is important. He seems to know that Clarity is TOWN. So Marv/prome, why is WoS a better lynch than SnB? And how do you guys not wanna lynch SnB??? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
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OOHCHILD
United States570 Posts
I'm letting Pandain go. Im letting Marv go (don't see what is so town about him though) I would lynch Seuss, HotCottonCandy, or Sentinel. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On October 30 2013 01:36 OOHCHILD wrote: Popping in to say I hate the WoS lynch. It feels like the only reason why are lynching him is because he isn't here. I'm letting Pandain go. Im letting Marv go (don't see what is so town about him though) I would lynch Seuss, HotCottonCandy, or Sentinel. Why? You seemed kinda sure on him. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
##Uplift marvellosity ##Unvote It appears as though I'm getting lynched today and I don't really have the time to fight it, so I'll just claim and be done with it. I'm here for an hour and then I won't be back until post-deadline, so I can't exactly count on the whims of town to blow elsewhere in that time, and I'd rather us lynch into scum than town. My earlier power use on Seuss was fake. Originally I had him as my strongest townread based on what I know of him from my interaction with him in my newbie game, and he was the only one I felt confident enough of throwing his vote in a good spot to make my power at least semi-useful, but I did want to gauge town reaction to power use first. It seems nobody cared so i didn't really bother putting the power to use for real just in case of later-day shenanigans. I am Oprah Winfrey and I have the power to create a double voter every day by uplifting them. You get a car, Marv! And YOU get a car!! Townread on marv is pretty strong now (usage of dick move analysis) so I'll leave it up to him if he so chooses to pursue the lynch on me---this will make it even stronger! As far as OOHCHILD goes, his play is infuriating and needs to be punished, but of course this is TL and we lynch townies D1 because we think they're scum. I don't know where my vote should go atm because I'm trying to cram as much info as I can into this <hour that I have. Scum wins the day for sure. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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. I'm unsure what really happens next as I've mainly just played these in person, but around now we would go around the circle with each person claiming they were vanilla characters in order. I'll start. I'm Crazometer and I'm a Citizen of Inaba.
