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GSL and MLG winner DRG is "trash". I read it on the internets it must be true.
jk
Nice troll kid.
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On November 13 2012 06:47 JJH777 wrote:So I think this group proves that the whining was ridiculous. Honestly the zergs just got super lucky in the ro32. A bunch of them were within 1 game of not advancing. Hyun only got through because of Rain forefeiting. With neither zerg getting out of this group the max zerg will have in the ro8 is only 4 players. Meaning they aren't going to beat the record Terran/Protoss numbers in ro8. Protoss has had 5(maybe more? I don't want to go through every season) and I'm pretty sure Terran has had 7. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 06:36 c0sm0naut wrote:On November 13 2012 05:04 hitpoint wrote:On November 13 2012 04:18 forsooth wrote:On November 13 2012 03:44 BlackGosu wrote:On November 13 2012 03:38 Scrandom wrote:On November 13 2012 03:36 BlackGosu wrote:
enough for whining about zerg imbalance You are right, this single group eliminates everything said over the past month we won't whine about terran and protoss, you won't whine about zerg fair No deal, Zergs cried nonstop for well over a year. My God was it justified. Zerg was grossly under-powered and getting smashed in tournaments for a long time. It wasn't uncommon to see 6 or 7 of the top 8 in a tournament as terran. This is not even remotely the same thing. The other races only started to whine when win rates became even. no, imho the other races started to "whine" when the queen and OL buff were arbitrarily made despite 50% winrates in the matchup (zerg at 48. something % win). after that, TvZ and PvZ winrates went to an historic low (lower than the zvt rates ever were, even in the pre-blue flame, pre bunker, pre 11/11 nerfs) and the midgame phase of XvZ pretty much disappeared. SG/banshee play became a lot weaker and creepspread became an aggressive thing instead of a "connect all of my bases" thing at this point i think removing these changes (especially both) would be a bad move, but if you really think the other races just started crying because zergs suddenly started winning their equal share of games you're just spreading misinformation. their winrates in april/may were 50% or within 3-4 points either way. The winrates only stayed high for like a month before Terran figured it out again. Protoss win-rates did not go to a historic low. They were at their lowest in november or so of last year. We have been around 50-50 since the patch as far as tournament representation and win-rates. This GSL is the first big tournament where zerg has been so overrepresented and as I pointed out above a lot of those advancements were based on single games.
Well I don't know if you realise it, but your fantasies don't become reality just because you're posting them into a forum. And about getting lucky wins.... you should start watching GSL games if you comment them. Why not start with RoRo vs Hack game 3? 
DRG made a terrible choice at the group selection and Curious allways seems to kinda fall apart when it matters in Ro16. It's a shame that one of Symbol/Life/Leenock is going to get eliminated. If these were not in one group we had three guaranteed Zergs in Ro8 independant of groups...
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On November 13 2012 07:10 StickyIcky wrote:
GSL and MLG winner DRG is "trash". I read it on the internets it must be true.
jk
Nice troll kid.
trolling because I said drg is trash relative to the rest of code s
prove me wrong then? or maybe he should. he's out of code s for a reason, back into code a where his skill level is more fitting
he got spanked by rain 4 game in a row with the same build, the last thing he actually won was MLG in june. he won gsl 8 months ago. basically a nestea in progress, falling apart slowly as a result of not practicing enough and having trouble keeping up with the newest top class players
User was warned for this post
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On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely
you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get.
but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors.
maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing.
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On November 13 2012 07:08 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 06:47 JJH777 wrote:This GSL is the first big tournament where zerg has been so overrepresented this isn't true unless you consider the gsl to be the only big tournament, hahaha. you can continue to argue that this whole infestor/zerg QQ thing is new and unusual, but in reality it's been what people have been saying for a while now and not acknowledging this or zerg's heavy presence in almost every recent tournament is pretty cheeky.. you claim that terrans "bounced right back" (which is true, in winrates). however, if it's only because we've given up the entire midgame of TvZ and immediately race to 3 CC and 2 ebay, it says something is ill with the metagame, not with balance
I consider MLGs, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, certain dreamhacks, certain IEMs, WCS Asia, OSL, and some other random tournaments to have been the major ones since the patch. Which dreamhacks and IEMs I consider major are based on how many koreans/the quality of koreans that went to them.
There have been 4 MLGs since the patch with the exception of the first one after the patch (like within a week of the patch) they have been the most balanced MLGs ever as far as ro16s and ro8s. WCS Korea was heavily Protoss dominated, WCG Korea was mostly Terrans and Protoss, and WCS Asia was protoss dominated. For dreamhacks I'm pretty sure the one Mana won was after the patch? Then there was the Taeja ForGG finals one. IEM the only one I remember is the one MVP won which aside from MVP beating all of them zerg did very well at I will admit. OSL zerg did badly in. Only 2 in ro16 and 1 in ro8. For other random tournaments there are like Asus Rog tournaments, ESWC, Lone Star Clash, Home Story Cups, TSL4 etc. Zerg won the HSC that was post patch and Lone Star. Mana won ESWC and Taeja won the Asus Rog. Creator won TSL4. Results have been pretty balanced post patch.
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I didn't expect that DRG falls out again.... It was a hard group, but DRG seems sometimes so weak... No Zerg advances .. huge upset! Creator is really good and Ryung played awesome!
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opterown
Australia54747 Posts
On November 13 2012 04:48 13JackaL wrote:
Wow, that GSL LR thread banner with the infestor on it sure is a mighty one...
cursed
maybe you should put a zerg one for group D and see what happens?
i did ^^ hahah
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On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing.
Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago?
About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely.
And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ?
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On November 13 2012 08:13 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing. Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago? About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely. And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ?
no?
you cant really tell if its imbalanced yet because most p's and t's are still stuck on outdated styles.
even protosses who are learning to do the mass warp prism harass as z gets a slower army dont understand that thats just to buy you time and put the zerg allin. if you do something that encourages zerg to get a 200 supply broodlord infestor army but then stay on a stalker archon army you're the one doing something wrong. when more protosses are comfortable playing for the macro game and learn air transitions, and when terrans start to understand mech better and learn to use ghosts, if zerg still seems overpowered then we can talk. the game will be boring as shit, but terran and protoss late game armies can fight bl infestor if you're just willing to be as abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be.
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On November 13 2012 08:23 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 08:13 one-one-one wrote:On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing. Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago? About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely. And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ? no? you cant really tell if its imbalanced yet because most p's and t's are still stuck on outdated styles. even protosses who are learning to do the mass warp prism harass as z gets a slower army dont understand that thats just to buy you time and put the zerg allin. if you do something that encourages zerg to get a 200 supply broodlord infestor army but then stay on a stalker archon army you're the one doing something wrong. when more protosses are comfortable playing for the macro game and learn air transitions, and when terrans start to understand mech better and learn to use ghosts, if zerg still seems overpowered then we can talk. the game will be boring as shit, but terran and protoss late game armies can fight bl infestor if you're just willing to be as abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be.
outdated styles? what do you mean?
do you really believe this metagame will be solved by T/P being as "abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be?"
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oh look, neither zerg made it through
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On November 13 2012 06:06 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 05:57 mrtomjones wrote:On November 13 2012 05:34 c0sm0naut wrote:
ive been saying DRG is trash for maybe a season or two now and i hve never thought he as good. continues to not impress me which is sad but not as sad as curious's play. did these zergs just party for the last week instead of preparing for their matches? they getting supply block constantly, making bad decision, etc it doesn't really make sense.. can we just take the bad zergs who clog up code s and see their spots to Dark, some esf player, and hyun/shine?
grats to ryung, lol. surprising me bro. GL beating the rest of the Z in here (really.. all of my luck is sent to you) uhh are you trying to troll or something? DRG is not trash. Unless you think every other Zerg not named Leenock or Life is trash too, considering they are the only ones who could be considered better right now. On topic... I am shocked that both Zergs are out but super happy :D Protoss in R08 and Ryung is always entertaining. i guess it's trolling to think that a player has been overrated and isn't up to par with other zergs.. i mentioned dark, esf zergs, hyun, shine, etc. i think they are better players. i think i counted like 5 or 6 supply blocks on the game vs ryung on whirlwind. he drone scouts on CK, sees its a proxy 2 rax and lose anyways. sorry but that's not code s play imo. spends money on 10 lings and a spine so is completely safe then pulls everything again to attack a few marines and a bunker that isn't even close to in range of his hatchery. lol. its okay to think DRG is washed up man, it's not trolling. maybe trash isn't the right word considering he's a trillion times better than the avg SC2 players, but he is playing code b quality games.. edit: forces a cancel on drgs 3rd with 6 marines because drg threw all those lings away doing nothing and then doens't OL scout to see his follow up? come on.. lol..
It is trolling if you try to call him trash. You should try to up your arguments next time. DRG is not trash and never has been. Your post calling him so was though.
Dark, hyun, Shine? Wow. Ignorant. I guess 2nd place in the OSL is something they have done recently? Hmm.. nope. Not even close.
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On November 13 2012 08:23 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 08:13 one-one-one wrote:On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing. Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago? About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely. And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ? no? you cant really tell if its imbalanced yet because most p's and t's are still stuck on outdated styles. even protosses who are learning to do the mass warp prism harass as z gets a slower army dont understand that thats just to buy you time and put the zerg allin. if you do something that encourages zerg to get a 200 supply broodlord infestor army but then stay on a stalker archon army you're the one doing something wrong. when more protosses are comfortable playing for the macro game and learn air transitions, and when terrans start to understand mech better and learn to use ghosts, if zerg still seems overpowered then we can talk. the game will be boring as shit, but terran and protoss late game armies can fight bl infestor if you're just willing to be as abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be.
Havnt most Protoss air armies simply been wrecked when they have tried to engage the Zerg? Everytime I see a Protoss go air versus Zerg they get destroyed. Only time I have seen it done somewhat successfully was a mothership, HT, Archon, Carrier army in a super turtle mode.. what combination are you suggesting?
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On November 13 2012 08:38 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 08:23 IdrA wrote:On November 13 2012 08:13 one-one-one wrote:On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing. Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago? About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely. And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ? no? you cant really tell if its imbalanced yet because most p's and t's are still stuck on outdated styles. even protosses who are learning to do the mass warp prism harass as z gets a slower army dont understand that thats just to buy you time and put the zerg allin. if you do something that encourages zerg to get a 200 supply broodlord infestor army but then stay on a stalker archon army you're the one doing something wrong. when more protosses are comfortable playing for the macro game and learn air transitions, and when terrans start to understand mech better and learn to use ghosts, if zerg still seems overpowered then we can talk. the game will be boring as shit, but terran and protoss late game armies can fight bl infestor if you're just willing to be as abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be. outdated styles? what do you mean? do you really believe this metagame will be solved by T/P being as "abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be?"
If you hit a brick wall don't run into it over and over again... get around it.
Considering Inf/BL Protoss have the opportunity to have a mothership. This works fine if don't only rely on a 3base-timing push to kill Zergis - you should safely take the fourth and gather energy and than it's an even fight about better micro and positioning and harass.
For Terris I see mech really strong with decent planetary fortresses everywhere, 3/3-Thors with auto-repair backed up by blue-flame hellions to roast broodlings, viking arch, ghost with EMPs and nukes, ravens with HSM or even some BCs and drop harass to snipe tech etc.
I hope somebody comes up with a way to make it work. Thx
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On November 13 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 08:23 IdrA wrote:On November 13 2012 08:13 one-one-one wrote:On November 13 2012 07:25 IdrA wrote:On November 12 2012 22:37 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 12 2012 22:32 transcendent one wrote:On November 12 2012 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote:
RO16 Curious.
So Ryung shows all throughout today that TvZ is still very winnable for Terran. Not overcommitting, abusing Zerg immobility of BLs. Textbook stuff. If he had made a few ghosts to EMP, it would have been even more lopsided. yeah if lopsided means like how you have 6 bases, a huge army, you rape a zerg completely killing his economy and tech and still almost losing to infestor/broodlord and only manage to win the basetrade He didn't almost lose. He did another double drop and split his armies up while letting Curious walk into his base and kill production because he knew he would win either way. He could have also brought his army back, and with good splitting and target firing, killed it off that way. Yeah, it looked even but if you were paying attention to the minimap you knew it was over. Eventually the Infestors would run out of energy. yeah explain pls how terran or protoss would fare vs a zerg in the same situation it was way closer than it should have been after ryung outplayed him hugely you realize that to get that bl infestor super army you give up so much mobility you cant even defend yourself, much less pressure them. t/p should always end up with a ton of bases, production, and full tech if zerg is playing turtle hive. the army is supposed to be that strong cuz you give up everything else to get it. if you get an advantage early on then you can afford to build enough static defense or to apply pressure to t/p fast enough. if you dont you cant and you end up with a base race situation where you have the one super army you invested absolutely everything in. its supposed to be that strong cuz its all you get. but terrans and protosses are still stuck on doing 3 base timings that were really good but are slowly getting worse and worse as people learn defensive timings. when that fails theyre SUPPOSED to lose in the late game because its a failed investment. but bl/infestor is so slow and bad to attack with that zerg has to drag it out. this makes it look, to stupid people, like the terran and protoss is still competitively in the game but fighting against this unfairly untouchable zerg army when in fact the opponent should have left as soon as they ran their collosus army into a spine crawler wall and infestors. maybe bl/infestor is stronger than it should be, but those situations are just what happens given game design and current play styles. that specifically is not an imbalance thing. Isn't that exactly the same definition of "imbalance" that you used in the show with the same name a few years ago? About 3-base play vs zerg. Bomber played some cool marine tank games vs stephano yesterday. His strategy didn't include a 4th base though as he prefered to pull all his scvs and go all-in. Hadn't it been for that single mistake he made being caught unsieged on creep he would have won the whole tournament most likely. And besides that fact, isn't it weird that terran has ridiculous problems getting to a viable lategame unit composition when Zerg is the race that is supposed to have a swarmy feel with many inexpensive units ? no? you cant really tell if its imbalanced yet because most p's and t's are still stuck on outdated styles. even protosses who are learning to do the mass warp prism harass as z gets a slower army dont understand that thats just to buy you time and put the zerg allin. if you do something that encourages zerg to get a 200 supply broodlord infestor army but then stay on a stalker archon army you're the one doing something wrong. when more protosses are comfortable playing for the macro game and learn air transitions, and when terrans start to understand mech better and learn to use ghosts, if zerg still seems overpowered then we can talk. the game will be boring as shit, but terran and protoss late game armies can fight bl infestor if you're just willing to be as abusive and boring as zergs have learned to be. Havnt most Protoss air armies simply been wrecked when they have tried to engage the Zerg? Everytime I see a Protoss go air versus Zerg they get destroyed. Only time I have seen it done somewhat successfully was a mothership, HT, Archon, Carrier army in a super turtle mode.. what combination are you suggesting?
Watch Shew's stream for proper air transitions. What I saw working the best was an early defensive mothership to start the transition. That alone aligns with what IdrA has said.
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I am disappointed by curious and DRG's execution of their 3rd base fake all-ins.
DRG did the same build that worked against Creator before, but executed it poorly. should skip the inject in the main, walk straight down and inject the natural as soon as it finishes, and time the roach warren with that inject so that you make all the roaches at the same time in the natural, and don't show them to a probe.
but I prefer a slightly later timing that includes zergling speed so that you can over-run him once the wall is down.
Curious's baneling bust looked like it was made up on the spot. congratulations, it worked as best as it could have and you just got 7 slow lings into his base. now what? you can time it to be later and still be able to break in, while having many more lings or even ling speed.
also I thought DRG's play was interesting - he was delaying lair in favour of ling speed and 10 roaches, attempting to blind counter the wonwonwon. Turns out slow lair makes you vulnerable against DTs (though he won the game, but maybe he shouldn't have) and doesn't work out against stargate.
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So what could Ryung have done differently on game 3 of his first series vs Curious? Is it possible to remax with a few battle cruisers or is that not viable? The only thing I can think of is he could've had a better simcity and tank production (His factories only had a few addons) to protect his 4th and 5th base. I see european mech players usually put a PF or two to make a choke around that area. Maybe he could've kept Curious on an ultra tech while preserving his economy. And maybe keeping a few battle cruisers and retaining his raven count in whatever tech route he's forced to.
P.S. Creator's build in that last game was so sick. He throws in those archons and the corrupters need to get in range of the archons to target down the collosus. You need to spread them pretty well to have a chance. It was nice to see how it differed versus Parting's compositions in Hyun club.
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On November 13 2012 14:20 lannisport wrote:
So what could Ryung have done differently on game 3 of his first series vs Curious? Is it possible to remax with a few battle cruisers or is that not viable? The only thing I can think of is he could've had a better simcity and tank production (His factories only had a few addons) to protect his 4th and 5th base. I see european mech players usually put a PF or two to make a choke around that area. Maybe he could've kept Curious on an ultra tech while preserving his economy. And maybe keeping a few battle cruisers and retaining his raven count in whatever tech route he's forced to.
P.S. Creator's build in that last game was so sick. He throws in those archons and the corrupters need to get in range of the archons to target down the collosus. You need to spread them pretty well to have a chance. It was nice to see how it differed versus Parting's compositions in Hyun club.
yeah i would say the bc tech getting established ahead of all the ghost upgrades would have been the better choice in hindsight...
after the brood lord engagement he could have easily started 3 BCs and made another 3 asap.
keeping the vikings alive to hunt some overlords and help against another brood lord army later would have been much better ... the landed vikings did not even snipe the hatchery at zerg's 4th base
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EPT
