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If anybody actually reads this, I'm assuming it will degenerate quickly. Still, I was hoping to hear from people who are going to vote for Romney, and the reasons they are doing it.
I'm biased. I'm a huge fan of Obama. From my liberal perspective, I get the impression that people who are voting Romney are doing so not because they like his policies, but because they don't like Obama. If they don't fall into the anti-Obama category, I feel like his supporters agree with his social agenda of being pro-life, anti gay marriage, and generally religious and Christian.
The economy seems to be the #1 issue in every voters mind, on both sides. In a nutshell, I see this: Obama wants to raise money by increasing taxes for the very wealthy. Romney wants to raise money by cutting the budgets of pretty much every federal program outside of defense, medicare, and social security.
Am I taking crazy pills? Does half of the country really want to cut 40% out of the budgets of education, transportation, postal service, Pell grants, climate and energy research, and every other positive program the government runs just to avoid raising taxes, slightly, on people who own multiple houses?
I'm also blown away with the arguments against Obamacare. Romney fucking implemented it in his state while governor. How the hell can people be against Obamacare and for Romney? He created the working model!
I guess I just feel that Obama's policies are logical, practical approaches to improving life for the greatest number of people. I feel that Romney's entire campaign relies not on offering any solutions, but pointing out that Obama is a failure, simply because he hasn't solved every problem that exists in the country. Somehow I doubt Romney will fare any better, especially seeing as how little he as offered in terms of any kind of plan on virtually every issue he will face.
To end with, here is a small list of things off the top of my head that Obama has done in the last four years that has made me proud to have voted for him.
-Obamacare
-Bin Laden
-Publicly supporting same sex marriage and repealed 'don't ask don't tell'
-Publicly supported womens equality and signed Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act
-Supports clean energy and raises fuel efficiency standards
-Effectively ended the war in Iraq
Anyway, rant over. Can some Romney fans give me some of their reasons for why they will vote for him? I will try to be open minded, and I am genuinely curious.
  
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I'll vote for Romney because I make $400,000 per year.
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On September 17 2012 10:44 Entirety wrote:
I'll vote for Romney because I make $400,000 per year.
Tell me what you do and how you do it.
I think it was David Stockman who said that both both sides' plans are "fantasies". While I wouldn't be inclined to go that far, it's true that he has a point. Stockman basically says that we need to let the Bush tax cuts expire and also cut back on spending. This will likely put us into a deeper recession, but according to him, it's actually quite necessary because by now our options are very, very limited.
But overall I would prefer Obama as a candidate as well.
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This is why I haven't signed up to be able to vote, I'm just not skilled enough to pick out the 1% that politicians say that isn't bullshit.
(trying to word this paragraph is hard)
There are always valid rebuttals. A very simple one is women want equality yet I see none doing hard labor. [usually] Men build houses and women sell them (construction/reality). That is a valid argument against full equality.
But I know nothing so don't take it to heart (oh and I'm neutral on everything so get no ideas).
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On September 17 2012 10:35 rogzardo wrote:
If anybody actually reads this, I'm assuming it will degenerate quickly.
I'm biased. I'm a huge fan of Obama. From my liberal perspective, I get the impression that people who are voting Romney are doing so not because they like his policies, but because they don't like Obama.
Why would anyone want to respond to this post?
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On September 17 2012 10:35 rogzardo wrote:
I'm also blown away with the arguments against Obamacare. Romney fucking implemented it in his state while governor. How the hell can people be against Obamacare and for Romney? He created the working model!
And on top of that, it worked really really well. Massachusetts loved having Romney as a governor because of it...
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If you still think voting changes anything, and that at this point both parties haven't turned 100% corporate and the president is just a PR man of the country, well then, I've got some dehydrated water in a can to sell you.
However, that being said, Romney has made no appealing arguments as to why anyone would vote for him. I'm sure that if we separated his speeches from his persona, we would have a case for labeling him clinically insane, because nothing he says is consistent, and many things that he says contradict reality, mathematics and common sense. His stances change every state, every speech, and perhaps more than once a day!
At least Obama has kept some of the promises he made in 2008, and that's still preferable to living in a mormon/christian wild west with oil fountains and ayn rand statues fantasy world of Romney.
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On September 17 2012 10:35 rogzardo wrote:
To end with, here is a small list of things off the top of my head that Obama has done in the last four years that has made me proud to have voted for him.
-Obamacare
-Bin Laden
-Publicly supporting same sex marriage and repealed 'don't ask don't tell'
-Publicly supported womens equality and signed Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act
-Supports clean energy and raises fuel efficiency standards
-Effectively ended the war in Iraq
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I'm not necessarily voting, but,
- Bin Laden was going to happen had it been anyone else, he had nothing to do with that, that would be like giving Kennedy full responsibility for the bay of pigs, which was created in the Eisenhower presidency. Bin Laden had been a 12 year long affair.
- Womens equality is happening no matter who is president, I can't think of any self-serving president who would not do that, besides, laws don't help something like that. Glass ceilings are not based on laws, but rather on the capitalist system.
- Supports clean energy? Really? His policies on offshore drilling have not changed the game, and with fracking and other cheaper methods coming I can't see this as much of a pro for Obama.
- Ending the War in Iraq is definitely a pro for him, but he did not do anything special to get us out of there, he just said wtf are we doing here, lets gtfo. This is definitely a pro though.
Also a lot of people do not agree with his Obama-care and the fact that the fiasco that was Obama care dropped his approval rating to less than 30%, after Osama his approval rating shot up. The fact is that Obama only cleaned up after a terrible second term in Bush after a not so bad 1st term (though people will dispute that). I can't really say too much is that awesome for him when he spent most of his time cleaning things up.
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On September 17 2012 10:44 Entirety wrote:
I'll vote for Romney because I make $400,000 per year.
second i vote for Romney so we can keep the poor poor.
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Actually Bush ended the war in Iraq when he signed the U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. He really didn't have anything to do with killing Bin Laden either, all he did was sign the papers to allow our Seals to go in.
I don't like Romney nor Obama, this election is a wash in my eyes.
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On September 17 2012 11:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 10:35 rogzardo wrote:
To end with, here is a small list of things off the top of my head that Obama has done in the last four years that has made me proud to have voted for him.
-Obamacare
-Bin Laden
-Publicly supporting same sex marriage and repealed 'don't ask don't tell'
-Publicly supported womens equality and signed Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act
-Supports clean energy and raises fuel efficiency standards
-Effectively ended the war in Iraq
. I'm not necessarily voting, but, - Bin Laden was going to happen had it been anyone else, he had nothing to do with that, that would be like giving Kennedy full responsibility for the bay of pigs, which was created in the Eisenhower presidency. Bin Laden had been a 12 year long affair.
- Womens equality is happening no matter who is president, I can't think of any self-serving president who would not do that, besides, laws don't help something like that. Glass ceilings are not based on laws, but rather on the capitalist system.
- Supports clean energy? Really? His policies on offshore drilling have not changed the game, and with fracking and other cheaper methods coming I can't see this as much of a pro for Obama.
- Ending the War in Iraq is definitely a pro for him, but he did not do anything special to get us out of there, he just said wtf are we doing here, lets gtfo. This is definitely a pro though.
Also a lot of people do not agree with his Obama-care and the fact that the fiasco that was Obama care dropped his approval rating to less than 30%, after Osama his approval rating shot up. The fact is that Obama only cleaned up after a terrible second term in Bush after a not so bad 1st term (though people will dispute that). I can't really say too much is that awesome for him when he spent most of his time cleaning things up.
Obama has been a stronger supporter of women's rights than most. I agree that Bin Laden was inevitable, but I do not think that many, especially Romney, would support women's equality as much as he did.
Clean energy: Boosted fuel efficiency standards, by a large amount. Implemented 'cash for clunkers' program. Wind and solar power generation increased 71 and 40% from 2008 to 2010. Issued a loan guarantee for the first nuclear power plant in the US in decades. Funded weatherization of low-income houses to save on heating and cooling costs.
Obamacare allows about 33 million people to receive health insurance who don't currently have any. It gives small businesses tax credits if they provide health care for employees (and does NOT mandate they provide it, contrary to popular belief), and generally reduces the overall cost of health care. It is successful in Massachusetts, and most civilized countries.
This is all in the face of an extremely stubborn congress, and after the royal fuck up that was the Bush administration.
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On September 17 2012 11:24 R0YAL wrote:Actually Bush ended the war in Iraq when he signed the U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. He really didn't have anything to do with killing Bin Laden either, all he did was sign the papers to allow our Seals to go in. I don't like Romney nor Obama, this election is a wash in my eyes.
He signed it, and even had a ceremony on an aircraft carrier. Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of troops stayed in Iraq and kept dying every day until last January.
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On September 17 2012 11:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 10:35 rogzardo wrote:
To end with, here is a small list of things off the top of my head that Obama has done in the last four years that has made me proud to have voted for him.
-Obamacare
-Bin Laden
-Publicly supporting same sex marriage and repealed 'don't ask don't tell'
-Publicly supported womens equality and signed Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act
-Supports clean energy and raises fuel efficiency standards
-Effectively ended the war in Iraq
. I'm not necessarily voting, but, - Bin Laden was going to happen had it been anyone else, he had nothing to do with that, that would be like giving Kennedy full responsibility for the bay of pigs, which was created in the Eisenhower presidency. Bin Laden had been a 12 year long affair.
- Womens equality is happening no matter who is president, I can't think of any self-serving president who would not do that, besides, laws don't help something like that. Glass ceilings are not based on laws, but rather on the capitalist system.
- Supports clean energy? Really? His policies on offshore drilling have not changed the game, and with fracking and other cheaper methods coming I can't see this as much of a pro for Obama.
- Ending the War in Iraq is definitely a pro for him, but he did not do anything special to get us out of there, he just said wtf are we doing here, lets gtfo. This is definitely a pro though.
Also a lot of people do not agree with his Obama-care and the fact that the fiasco that was Obama care dropped his approval rating to less than 30%, after Osama his approval rating shot up. The fact is that Obama only cleaned up after a terrible second term in Bush after a not so bad 1st term (though people will dispute that). I can't really say too much is that awesome for him when he spent most of his time cleaning things up.
I'm sorry, but women's equality is not going to happen "no matter who is president." Romney is, after all, anti-abortion. He's basically set on taking away the rights of 50% of the population. When women are not allowed to decide what happens to their own bodies, then they can't be considered equal, simple as that.
It seems that a lot of the abortion debate gets caught up in this idea of "morality" and "personhood" (which is exactly what the "pro-life" camp aims for, since that is basically all they have going for them). People seem to forget that abortion is also about a woman's right to her own body. Well, fine then, we can play that morality game too: is it really "right" to force a woman to become a mother, effectively restricting her ability to do what she wants with her own body for nine months, against her will just because some people (incidentally, a lot of men in particular) feel like a bundle of cells in her uterus is a "person" (whatever the hell that is)?
If nothing else, that's why people should vote for Obama. They're both unappealing candidates, but where Obama is simply a weak, ineffectual president, Romney is ... well, intent on setting back equality by several decades. (Not even gonna touch the anti-gay stance or the rape comments.)
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On September 17 2012 11:11 Sadistx wrote:
If you still think voting changes anything, and that at this point both parties haven't turned 100% corporate and the president is just a PR man of the country, well then, I've got some dehydrated water in a can to sell you.
However, that being said, Romney has made no appealing arguments as to why anyone would vote for him. I'm sure that if we separated his speeches from his persona, we would have a case for labeling him clinically insane, because nothing he says is consistent, and many things that he says contradict reality, mathematics and common sense. His stances change every state, every speech, and perhaps more than once a day!
At least Obama has kept some of the promises he made in 2008, and that's still preferable to living in a mormon/christian wild west with oil fountains and ayn rand statues fantasy world of Romney.
Romney literally is a compulsive liar and his ability and insistence on doing so sickens me. He is neither an honest or transparent politician and a politician like him servers no place in a modern democracy.
Here is my favorite. One of Romneys spokespersons was on air at Fox News and she mentioned Romney's health care plan in Mass. and conservatives flip. They however, didn't get mad that Romney implemented and mandated health care plan, they were mad that she talked about it. Then they want to fire her for mentioning it, and not the guy who designed it.
Source
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lots of potential for an obama circlejerk here lol
im not voting for either because they both suck. im voting 3rd party because i don't identify with democrats or republicans.
i dunno about the reasons ppl are voting for romney but some of the criticisms i know ppl have of obama...drones killing innocents, patriot act, troop surges, ndaa, assassination of us citizen, drug war, farm bill, tarp.
there's other ideaological stuffs like big goverment, executive priveledge, "you didn't build that", regulation, money to public or private sector, spending, taxation etc
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There's a whole lot of ignorant people out there who believe that Obama has done nothing the past 4 years except take vacations, play golf or basketball, increase the national debt, cut jobs, make friends with the Taliban, and generally be a liberal punching bag who would like nothing more than to turn America into a socialist state like Canada with their affordable national healthcare and all. They think along the lines of...if Obama hasn't done anything for America the last 4 years, what makes you think he will do any differently the next 4?
It's really hard to try to reason with people who don't listen to logic or look at the facts and are irrational and arrogant and blindly follow empty rhetoric (i.e., Romney).
Anyway, my prediction is Obama is going to win again.
But, it will be a closer contest than 2008 with McCain, because 1) Romney isn't as old as McCain was, so people might think he would be more reliable or less temperamental. 2) People might actually think Ryan would make a good president, I mean even hardcore republicans never thought Palin was ever a viable presidential choice. 3) Some people are "tired" of Obama and his so-called "failed" policies.
That being said, there is a bit of dirt on squeaky clean Romney, such as his assets in foreign banks to evade taxes, his fortune, and the inconsistencies in his views. Republicans keep saying that they will bring something different and that Obama is a bad president, but they never say exactly what they would do if they went to the White House. That's because they themselves don't know what their policies would be, they just like to shout like children that the people in charge now are doing the wrong things and they would do the right things.
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I don't follow politics very much (or at least until recently), but I'm still voting against Romney, because I think he's such an inconsistent and insincere person/politican. He constantly seems to contradict himself, and the fact that he seems to be part of that class of super rich people who, even after tax cuts, make 2 or 3 (or more, idk) times what I can, and that just doesn't sit right with me. I don't think Obama is a very good President, but you can at least relate to him, and he has kept some of his promises of 2008. At the end of it I think Obama is still a helluva lot better than Romney.
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Blazinghand
United States25547 Posts
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If you think that thread has created any sort of dialogue, you haven't actually read it.
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Blazinghand
United States25547 Posts
I've had good dialogue in it. If you don't try to put something in you'll never get any thing out.
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EPT
