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On July 19 2012 00:08 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 00:04 JingleHell wrote: I've actually been told in postgame that GGing someone who gets themselves mislynched looks like post-lynch guilt, and potentially scummy, as getting mislynched is frequently a sign of anything BUT a GG.
So yes, if a Townie gets themselves killed, I do think it's their own fault. This is not scummy, this is a fact. i dont understand the first line? GGing talking about saying good game to someone after they get killed?
Yes. It's apparently something you should avoid overdoing. Which kinda makes sense.
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Yours wasn't exactly excessive, though, and since you weren't on the mislynch, it sounds reasonable.
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@jingle Why do you propose sealing my fate to the vigilante kill? That doesn’t make sense because it would be poor play for both town and mafia. Why are you trying to bait me? It seems like only a mafia would try to set me up to look bad after the vigilante hit. I would only make that as town if I had delusions of grandeur and being the town hero. If I were right then I’d have made a big call. If wrong, then I would basically be giving the game away since 8 towns would go to 7 with the vig kill, then lynch on me to 6, then a night kill to 5. Game over, essentially, at the very least handed mafia a massive lead that requires perfect play to overcome. If I’m mafia then I doubt I would tie myself down to the verdict because I know I’d be lynched after.
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How is it scummy to ask you to be confident in your read, when you want someone to be killed on such a tiny amount of evidence? If you're so confident that the risk of him flipping town doesn't exist, you should certainly feel safe being directly associated with his potential death that way.
It's the same risk every single person takes when they cast their vote. If it's a mislynch, you're tied to it.
If you try to tell the vigi to kill someone, and it's wrong, you should be associated with the suggestion you made. If you're not all that confident that he's scum that you're willing to take credit for it, then it's not wasted time to put pressure on him before killing him.
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On July 19 2012 02:51 JingleHell wrote: How is it scummy to ask you to be confident in your read, when you want someone to be killed on such a tiny amount of evidence? If you're so confident that the risk of him flipping town doesn't exist, you should certainly feel safe being directly associated with his potential death that way.
It's the same risk every single person takes when they cast their vote. If it's a mislynch, you're tied to it.
If you try to tell the vigi to kill someone, and it's wrong, you should be associated with the suggestion you made. If you're not all that confident that he's scum that you're willing to take credit for it, then it's not wasted time to put pressure on him before killing him.
I stand behind my pressure, but I'm not going to be stupid about it and die for no reason on the off chance that I'm wrong and he was just a bad townie. Anyone who would do so is either anti-town or astoundingly dumb.
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@ Calgar - Are you still standing behind the (assuming vigi exists) vigi hit? We have to make a decision about this in less than 5 hours.
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Oh forgot to clarify, I'm very suspicious of iamperfection's recent posts, and the only sentiment in his favor seems to be Jingle's "this is too easy" argument.
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I agree, Hapa. The "Too easy" argument only stands up if he puts a lie to it. It's kind of like tube. He was too easy, and the whole town told him fix his posting, and he tried to. He may still be scum, but he earned some BOTD that I was willing to give for effort made.
Perfection is NOT helping his situation at all, hence why I'm perfectly comfortable with frontloading votes on him until and unless he proves some town value.
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One good thing about vigilante using his power early is that we will have a confirmed townie starting Day 2, which is always good. It also prevents vigilante from having to claim if he/she gets pressured close to a lynch. It also helps detective to narrow down the list to investigate from. Of course, it can be argued that this could also help scums to narrow down who they need to roleblock, technically, but in reality this doesn't really matter as much because scums never get information on whether their roleblock is successful. Thus, while it is true that they have one fewer person in the list of people to roleblock from (reduced from like 7 to 6), they don't know if they connected/missed the power role. On the other hand, detective investigating a vigilante who later claims would be a waste of one night action.
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Of course, the downside of this is that vigilante has less information compared to later in the game. But considering the advantages of using his power early and the fact that vigilante may be NK'ed later in the game, I would support vigilante using vig power to take out whoever he thinks is most scummy.
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On July 19 2012 03:27 Hapahauli wrote: Oh forgot to clarify, I'm very suspicious of iamperfection's recent posts, and the only sentiment in his favor seems to be Jingle's "this is too easy" argument. If you could elaborate on what was wrong with my recent posts. Explain to me how my position on obvious and my posting style served to help me in anyway.
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On July 19 2012 04:03 YourHarry wrote: One good thing about vigilante using his power early is that we will have a confirmed townie starting Day 2, which is always good. It also prevents vigilante from having to claim if he/she gets pressured close to a lynch. It also helps detective to narrow down the list to investigate from. Of course, it can be argued that this could also help scums to narrow down who they need to roleblock, technically, but in reality this doesn't really matter as much because scums never get information on whether their roleblock is successful. Thus, while it is true that they have one fewer person in the list of people to roleblock from (reduced from like 7 to 6), they don't know if they connected/missed the power role. On the other hand, detective investigating a vigilante who later claims would be a waste of one night action.
I might be missing something, but how does this confirm a townie d2 if a vig shoots? Wouldn't it just confirm that we have a vig who has no shots (unless he claims). If he claims though and we don't have a medic it stands to reason he'd die next night to remove the confirmed townie since they're much more dangerous to scum than the other townies that aren't trustworthy.
If the mafia targets him n2 and he lives we gain save a person and break even compared to if he hadn't shot at all at the expense of confirming a medic among the 7/6 remaining town.
To me this feels like a very high-risk play for a very low reward unless the Vig is so confident in his read that he's almost positive he can hit scum.
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So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill.
Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?
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Vig can role-claim after he shoots. Since the vig is useless at that point (used his/her 1 time blue ability), a claim confirms a town identity at no risk.
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EBWOP: If the mafia targets him n2 and he lives we gain save a person and come out ahead/break even compared to if he hadn't shot at all at the expense of confirming a medic among the 7/6 remaining town.
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On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote:So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill. Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?
I'm assuming the "throw out FOS" bit is in regards to my linked reply. I'm saying to take a strong stance against someone. You're wishy-washy and simply throw around suspicion without committing anywhere. This is a mafia-trait.
TBH, I don't even understand your question. Its not like you voted for Obvious - you voted for him when his fate was still in question. How does your vote for Obvious vindicate you?
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On July 19 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote:So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill. Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia? I'm assuming the "throw out FOS" bit is in regards to my linked reply. I'm saying to take a strong stance against someone. You're wishy-washy and simply throw around suspicion without committing anywhere. This is a mafia-trait. TBH, I don't even understand your question. Its not like you voted for Obvious - you voted for him when his fate was still in question. How does your vote for Obvious vindicate you? Because your thinking it in too simple of terms. If im mafia i know that obvious is town i wasent wishy washy at when i voted for obvious so according to your own logic my action at that time was more likely town. Take it further. When obvious is killed its natural to look at who caused the votes to happen how did it benfit me going later into the game how is it going to help the mafia win. Sure i could get the mis lynch on day one but im not set up in benfitual way at all on day 2. Ive been saying all along the goal is to win not looking good with logic or survivng lynches the goal is to make the town win. If im mafia my position makes no sense.
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EBWOP:
Its not like you voted for Obvious when he was set to be lynched -
Instead of:
Its not like you voted for Obvious -
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