EPTBreadth of Gameplay in SC2 - Page 85
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R3mnant
United Kingdom51 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On March 28 2012 08:23 R3mnant wrote: I think that Buttercup has the right idea, this whole idea is pretty stupid. You can saturate minerals in a base with a GRAND total of 12 workers, 13/14 if there is 1/2 far patches. This means I can 14 pool and I'll have a saturated base- I may as well send the rest of my workers to my natural once this happens, as I will get more minerals this way. This is really retarded, if I start with 6 drones, If it was a lower amount of drones that you started with it would actually make some sense however 3 base ling roach is still pretty strong even if there were a lower amount of workers, zerg just feels as if it has great momentum to take 3 bases against protoss, if I have 42 drones then I can mass produce roaches off of 3 base with injects and just win versus Protoss. Floating minerals? No problem. Take a 4th and tech. I don't understand how you could have thought this was a good idea. THEORYCRAFTING DETECTED. Go play a game first. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2140 Posts
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R3mnant
United Kingdom51 Posts
On March 28 2012 08:29 MNdakota wrote: THEORYCRAFTING DETECTED. Go play a game first. I like how if you check my match history I actually play on a 6m1g map(shakuras) and beat a protoss 2 games in a row. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On March 28 2012 08:56 R3mnant wrote: I like how if you check my match history I actually play on a 6m1g map(shakuras) and beat a protoss 2 games in a row. Please upload the replays. I'm serious, it would be tremendously helpful if you (or anyone not liking the idea) would do that. | ||
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ultimfier
Canada29 Posts
This game type is not supposed to be balanced. jesus christ people, we are changing the rate of resource collection, so obviously the game isn't going to be perfectly balanced. That is even stated in the OP. If you don't like the idea because you find the game play worse than 8m2g, then go play 8m2g. If you don't like the idea because it isn't perfectly balanced, then your comprehension skills are clearly lacking. | ||
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R3mnant
United Kingdom51 Posts
http://drop.sc/144731 http://drop.sc/144732 | ||
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VictorJones
United States235 Posts
This concept has produced a more enjoyable sc2 experience for me and apparently most of the people that have played it than anything else. Certainly, I enjoy it more than standard play. If it's balanced, great! If it's not, I don't actually care very much. These are custom games in the custom lobbies that are not associated in any way with your ladder ranking or your e-penis. If imbalances become obvious in the game and people still enjoy playing it more than standard sc2, then it's saying something extremely positive about 6m maps. There are unit design (and in fact race design) flaws that need to be addressed in the expansions to come which ought to fix racial imbalances. Whether or not they are corrected to fix racial imbalance on 6m or 8m maps has yet to be determined. But really: the idea of 6m wouldn't even be worth shooting down if it were super imbalanced in WOL. The objective isn't balance. The objective is finding a way to make sc2 more fun . Seeing as how a significant number of people who have tried this game variant do indeed find it more fun to play (especially in mirror match ups), I assert that the 6m experiment has already proved successful. Now. If we are talking about replacing the ladder maps with 6m maps, and tournament maps with 6m maps, I can see where balance has a place in the discussion. It is a terrible idea to shock WOL into 6m stuff without knowing the consequences and balance is extremely important for that. Duh. But we aren't talking about that (well most of us aren't  ) We are talking about testing and enjoying a game variant that has been a lot of fun for us and trying to get it popularized so that it might have a place in the standard play of the future. Standard play that, if it comes with HOTS, will also have different units and completely different game play than anything we can test here. That's why this can only really be a proof of concept and frankly, it's proven the concept quite adequately.I'd also like to assert that the best way to see the difference in game play strictly in the scope of breadth without affecting balance is to look just at mirror match ups. Are they more fun? I think that just about everyone you ask will agree that they are. Buttercup and friends are concerned about balance. They feel that because zerg is imba in a 6m setting, the idea is not worth testing in any capacity. It's a big leap and I disagree wholeheartedly. Many other players have hearts in their eyes and seem to have this unshakable faith that things will turn out just fine with 6m maps in terms of balance and that race mechanics and other things will scale with resource collection. To this I also disagree. sc2 is ridiculously complex and racial imbalances will more than likely spring up during this 6m testing phase. My point is that it doesn't matter either way. It can be imbalanced for now. Blizzard will take care of that if this becomes popular enough  | ||
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stebo
United States45 Posts
On March 28 2012 09:08 VictorJones wrote: I knew that a devoted group of people would spend a lot of energy to derail this thread eventually. I've read every single comment, every single counter-comment, and every single counter-counter comment and here's what I have to say: I am little bit confused at this sentence. Where at what point did we being to derail this thread? All I said was that I think this idea sucks. After that, the entire thread went apeshit and started calling me a troll as if I'm attacking something sacred to them. Can you please explain to me what is wrong with giving my honest feedback? As for the rest you wrote, I'm not even going to bother responding to such an incoherent mess of statements, such as this statement you made: On March 28 2012 09:08 VictorJones wrote: The objective isn't balance. The objective is finding a way to make sc2 more fun. Are you suggesting that not only is balance NOT important in a competitve RTS game, but that Starcraft 2 in general is boring? Give me a break. | ||
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ultimfier
Canada29 Posts
Are you suggesting that not only is balance NOT important in a competitve RTS game, but that Starcraft 2 in general is boring? Give me a break. [/QUOTE] Oh man. Please read the OP edit: fail quoting | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On March 28 2012 09:49 stebo wrote: Are you suggesting that not only is balance NOT important in a competitve RTS game, but that Starcraft 2 in general is boring? Give me a break. No, he's saying that he (and others who have posted in this thread) find these custom maps more fun than regular SC2, and that itself makes them worth looking into, even if they'll never be balanced for competitive play in WoL. You're welcome to disagree with his opinion, of course. | ||
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stebo
United States45 Posts
On March 28 2012 10:03 archon256 wrote: No, he's saying that he (and others who have posted in this thread) find these custom maps more fun than regular SC2, and that itself makes them worth looking into, even if they'll never be balanced for competitive play in WoL. You're welcome to disagree with his opinion, of course. You summon a good point and I agree that playing SC2 ladder just doesn't meet the expectations of some people and I think there's nothing wrong with making this a custom map. But those who are suggesting to make this a new and innovating feature in HotS is just a horrible idea. | ||
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GPThunder
Canada53 Posts
On March 28 2012 10:06 stebo wrote: You summon a good point and I agree that playing SC2 ladder just doesn't meet the expectations of some people and I think there's nothing wrong with making this a custom map. But those who are suggesting to make this a new and innovating feature in HotS is just a horrible idea. But why is it a horrible idea to introduce into HOTS? If the game was balanced around 6m, would you still think its a horrible idea? | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
Is it because you think low-econ games that involve more expanding than turtling will be less fun than the current style? Or is it too drastically different from WoL and would need Blizzard to waste too much time trying to balance it? | ||
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VictorJones
United States235 Posts
stebo United States. March 28 2012 09:49 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2012 09:08 VictorJones wrote: I knew that a devoted group of people would spend a lot of energy to derail this thread eventually. I've read every single comment, every single counter-comment, and every single counter-counter comment and here's what I have to say: I am little bit confused at this sentence. Where at what point did we being to derail this thread? All I said was that I think this idea sucks. After that, the entire thread went apeshit and started calling me a troll as if I'm attacking something sacred to them I think it started with this: On March 27 2012 15:31 ppgButtercup wrote: ... Stop wasting the talent of good map makers on this drivel... Use of unreasonably offensive and disrespectful language tends to derail threads. Language, if you want some accountability, such as As for the rest you wrote, I'm not even going to bother responding to such an incoherent mess of statements, such as this statement you made As for this: But those who are suggesting to make this a new and innovating feature in HotS is just a horrible idea The argument is whether or not to implement it in HOTS. If it's a horrible idea, the only reason your posse has put forth is possible balance issues which, as stated in my previous apparently incomprehensible post, will be fixed by blizzard since 6m would be the standard. So..... | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Meh, haters gonna hate. I like this experiment, and I really wish that Blizzard take notice for the expansions. Maybe I'm just being optimistic. | ||
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stebo
United States45 Posts
On March 28 2012 10:18 GPThunder wrote: It's a horrible idea because it's changing Starcraft 2 when 95% of it is already balanced and suitable for competitive eSports. The fact is, this idea is completely and utterly unnecessary to implement into an expansion. But why is it a horrible idea to introduce into HOTS? If the game was balanced around 6m, would you still think its a horrible idea? I would be perfectly OK at keeping this a custom game but don't sit here and try to convince me that this is positive and innovating discovering for Starcraft 2, especially when this idea clearly has balance issues. On March 28 2012 10:39 RavenLoud wrote: Sometimes you just can't make contrary blanket statements with little to back them up and then throw a sissy fit by hiding under the "my honest opinion" card while belittling other people's "honest opinion".. No wonder why people call you a troll, you should try to read your posts from different angles. If you had read the posts a few pages ago you can blatantly see that I made a simple post at how I think this idea sucks and then everyone started going apeshit and making false assumptions. If I would have known people would have started throwing tantrums I would have never posted in this thread in the first place. I guess that's my fault though for not knowings it's a sin to post critical and honest feedback about Barrin's idea. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
I can tell you that even though some parts are a little imbalanced. I have having a lot more FUN with the game than I ever did before. | ||
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