EPT##Vote Dr. Helvetica
Only person who could have recruited Kurumi to the scum team.
TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia - Page 80
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
##Vote Dr. Helvetica Only person who could have recruited Kurumi to the scum team. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Mafia have a one time guess to figure him out and if correct, can communicate with him. The traitor also has a one time guess to join the mafia as well. If at any point he can pm the host with one less than the total mafia count mafia correct out of the total count (i,e 3 mafia correct out of 4 guesses with 4 mafia alive), he will join with the mafia Mafia have a rolecheck power. It'd be retarded not to just rolecheck whoever you think traitor is each night then guess when you find him. I'd never fish for the traitor, I'm too paranoid as scum. Bullshit reasoning. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On March 23 2012 12:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Did Caller claim both of his picks, or only Sentinel? Also, I think scum might have been PMing people fishing for the traitor, just look at Caller and Sentinel. Lynching on this kind of speculation is a bad idea. If deconduo has no reason to suspect me other than he thinks Kurumi is the traitor then it's a really bad bandwagon. Even if Kurumi were the traitor, the fact that I PM'd him is utterly inconclusive. I was inquiring about his reads, not his codes, and when he continued to babble our conversations hit a halt. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Katina
United States454 Posts
This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted. It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with. Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not. Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic. Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran. We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed. Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque. Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively. Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Kurumi is indefenseable at this point. jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful. With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke. Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi. I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit. kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him. Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game. I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen. You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious. Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ... So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched. I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him. Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for. I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself. This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is. Summary DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia ##Vote DoctorHelvetica | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
What happened to this, Katina? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
A mafia had 1.5KP which was rounded up to 2. Mafia have recruited the traitor. This person is likely Dr.H, but it could possibly be sentinel, and there is an outside chance of it being some other random fool that managed to be recruited without contacting the obvious scum. + Show Spoiler [unlikely stuff] + Or There was a town vig that shot mattchew or sandroba (which is unlikely). Or Mafia have a role such as a poisoner which has given them an extra KP (which is silly) Or Mattchew or sandroba was some kind of weak doctor/hider | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Why do we think he is town again? | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Awfully strange that deconduo/Katina, who haven't really done much all game, suddenly come in with these DrH cases. Godamn I was really hoping I'd be shot. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5203 Posts
Deconduo's alignment isn't set in stone (nobody's is) but him revealing all of the PM info along with the general tone of his posts puts him lower down on the totem (lynch) pole. Mattchew and I discussed this, among other things. On that topic, we shouldn't just forget the people who died + their reads. I want Katina or Wiggles lynched; Wiggles for aforementioned reasons, Katina, because prplhz died at a seemingly random time, and she knew his role. pms betwn Matt and Katina: + Show Spoiler + [12:01:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: hi [12:07:20 PM] Summer Barnes: i! [12:07:24 PM] Summer Barnes: Hi! [12:07:35 PM] Matt Kaplan: still think im scum? [12:08:05 PM] Summer Barnes: Questionable [12:08:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: lol [12:10:09 PM] Summer Barnes: That's why I messaged you :D [12:10:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: im not [12:10:27 PM] Matt Kaplan: i knew prp was medic when you did [12:10:42 PM] Matt Kaplan: and the fact that scum def tried to shoot palmar [12:10:47 PM] Matt Kaplan: should clear me [12:11:01 PM] Matt Kaplan: cause i would never have let them shoot him with prp medic and them in PM's [12:11:10 PM] Matt Kaplan: thats why i knew you were town [12:11:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: and have stuck up for you the entire game [12:13:08 PM] Summer Barnes: did palmar take a hit the night gumshoe died? [12:13:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: well [12:13:24 PM] Matt Kaplan: thats what me and prp assume [12:13:33 PM] Matt Kaplan: cause prp was busy paramedic [12:13:44 PM] Matt Kaplan: meaning him and his targets don't know if they are healed [12:14:08 PM] Matt Kaplan: but its the only reasonable logic for only 1 kill [12:14:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: prp even said it in thread [12:14:25 PM] Matt Kaplan: that caller just finished the job [12:16:36 PM] Matt Kaplan: im going to lunch [12:16:43 PM] Matt Kaplan: ill be back on in like 45 min [12:16:48 PM] Summer Barnes: okay [12:16:56 PM] Matt Kaplan: mull all that over [12:17:03 PM] Summer Barnes: i will [12:55:35 PM] Matt Kaplan: back [12:56:16 PM] Summer Barnes: k [12:56:49 PM] Summer Barnes: you seem genuine [12:56:56 PM] Summer Barnes: so i believe you [12:57:27 PM] Matt Kaplan: so who's your scum team [12:58:51 PM] Summer Barnes: I'm not mafia [12:58:59 PM] Matt Kaplan: no [12:59:06 PM] Matt Kaplan: like what is your guess at the scum team [1:00:14 PM] Summer Barnes: DrH, deconduo, possibly Abenson [1:00:29 PM] Summer Barnes: maybe echelon [3:29:08 PM] Matt Kaplan: would you vote for wiggles [3:29:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: if there was 6 votes on him [3:29:18 PM] Matt Kaplan: and the other option was a no-lynch [3:30:54 PM] Summer Barnes: I will need to take a better look at him first [3:31:25 PM] Summer Barnes: I won't vote for him at the moment [3:31:45 PM] Summer Barnes: do you think Wiggles has a good chance of being mafia?\ [3:32:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: there are 3 scum [3:32:22 PM] Summer Barnes: most likely [3:32:33 PM] Matt Kaplan: LOL you are so one of them [3:33:05 PM] Summer Barnes: I'm just accounting for all the possibilities\ [3:33:42 PM] Matt Kaplan: what? [3:34:06 PM] Summer Barnes: it's reasonable to assume that the traitor is on the mafia side, given that there was 2 deaths last night [3:34:17 PM] Summer Barnes: though it's possible that mafia have other KP roles [3:34:35 PM] Summer Barnes: or the offchance some idiot townie shot [3:34:58 PM] Matt Kaplan: none of these are reasonable thoughts at all [3:35:03 PM] Matt Kaplan: there are 3 scum [3:35:10 PM] Matt Kaplan: they killed 2 people last night [3:35:16 PM] Summer Barnes: the game started with 4 mafia, 2 are dead [3:35:27 PM] Summer Barnes: that's the most likely scenario yes [3:35:44 PM] Summer Barnes: but for that to happen the traitor would have to have been converted [3:36:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: yes because when the entire game votes on 1 person because they basically scum claimed in the thread [3:36:31 PM] Matt Kaplan: this is pointless [3:36:34 PM] Matt Kaplan: you are scum [3:38:00 PM] Summer Barnes: Again, I'm not mafia. Simply telling you what I'm thinking. [3:38:52 PM] Matt Kaplan: why do you think drh is scum [3:46:35 PM] Summer Barnes: Sorry my wireless gets a bit retarded every now and then [3:46:45 PM] Summer Barnes: because he hasn't put in an honest effort [3:46:53 PM] Summer Barnes: he hasn't really made a strong case on anyone [3:46:58 PM] Summer Barnes: sheeps along with other people [3:47:10 PM] Summer Barnes: he does not seem to 100% care about the lynches [3:47:15 PM] Summer Barnes: and all he does is call people stupid [3:59:00 PM] Summer Barnes: to better answer your earlier question now that I've had time [3:59:11 PM] Summer Barnes: Yes I'll kill Wiggles over a no lynch [3:59:43 PM] Summer Barnes: DrH is still a better target though | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 24 2012 00:11 layabout wrote: This seems to be very reliant on Deconduo. Why do we think he is town again? Regardless of whether you think I'm town or not, my role has been pretty much confirmed. On top of that, no one has said anything in the spreadsheet is wrong, so you can check it yourself. As for Kurumi, I find it very difficult to believe that he wasn't the traitor. -He thought Jackal was scum, so he made up the dreamer role to defend him from getting lynched. This would absolutely never have happened if he was scum, as he would know Jackal was town. -His made up dream was riddled with grammatical errors. Why not get Caller or any other teammate to spellcheck it first if he was scum. Why would his team even LET him post it. -The rattata post which was blatantly claiming traitor. Also given how Caller tried to recruit sentinel, its fairly obvious that scum were going to pm the traitor to make sure before recruiting them. | ||
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