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United States8476 Posts
On February 19 2012 09:02 weikor wrote:I personally go for a completely different approach on this map, personally i dont think the 3rd is very difficult to defend at all vs ground zerg, and you get a free 4th base in the process. The key is controlling the watchtower http://drop.sc/114698A replay vs a good zerg, showing the walloff with the greediest of openings 17 nexus 17 forge 17 gateway pylon - cannon, preventing ling runbys off a 14 pool Feel free to give me feedback on this base management. I know the zerg didnt see the wall, but im sure i could have warped in sentries and attacked him from the back with my main army. It's not really practical to defend so much space. You're literally trying to cover almost half the map.
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I'm having a lot of trouble stopping muta on this map. 3rd is tough to defend (for both p and z) unless you have a massive flying fleet! Yeesh! Gotta get some more games on it to get a feel though, my army splitting isn't the best yet. I do like the map quite a bit, and the watchtower was clearly well placed. I feel like in some blizzard maps they just throw them in in random places. But I guess that's b/c watchtowers don't make all that much sense in 4 player maps b/c the different spawning positions make it so you need the tower in different places.
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On February 19 2012 09:02 weikor wrote:I personally go for a completely different approach on this map, personally i dont think the 3rd is very difficult to defend at all vs ground zerg, and you get a free 4th base in the process. The key is controlling the watchtower
You got it right. Anyone who watched Apollo's video on this map would know, you can easily wall off the 4th like that and double expand.
So probably opening something able to bounce between your 2 walls off 2 bases is the way to go, blink or stargate stuff probably -- Stand your army between the two walls in the middle, laugh your way to the bank.. And, keep in mind most zergs are gonna open fast 3 hatch so you have some time to set up the wall.
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On February 15 2012 23:48 KraVe wrote: Hi guys,
Didn't see any topics started on this yet.
I have played Korhal 4 times now against Z and each time I have opened up with a simple 1 gate expand. I won 3/4 of these games with all of them being long macro games, however I am wondering what others are opening with. I always feel like I am slightly behind with a 1 gate expand if the zerg takes a quick third.
Is there a decently safe way to FFE or are we best to open with the 1 gate FE?
What are you using as your opening for this map vs Z?
Follow the pack, if you can....
Forge-Expand or Die Trying!
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I usually open 1/3 gate FE (ye, i'm playing oldfag style), then I do something like this
red - wall, yellow - cannons, blue - army. This way there's only one entrance to your bases and its nearly impossible to flank as zerg.
With that its pretty easy to defend 3 bases, as for 4th - I usually drop like 8 cannons to defend it, same with 5th.
Low masters EU. (didnt read all the topic so dunno if anyone use this kind of wallin)
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Canada13372 Posts
On February 20 2012 07:29 DrGreen wrote:I usually open 1/3 gate FE (ye, i'm playing oldfag style), then I do something like this red - wall, yellow - cannons, blue - army. This way there's only one entrance to your bases and its nearly impossible to flank as zerg. With that its pretty easy to defend 3 bases, as for 4th - I usually drop like 8 cannons to defend it, same with 5th. Low masters EU. (didnt read all the topic so dunno if anyone use this kind of wallin)
The problem I have with that wall in is that walling so far up front means you don't have very far to fall back defensively. Further, that wall is very far from the wall at the 3rd. Further, low ground wall there makes taking a 4th later and defending it gets very very difficult. You are better of walling at the 4th instead of the 3rd.
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I don't care to much about taking a third vs. zerg because I like 2 base timing so I don't have to deal with Z late game T3. That being said you FFE but it is just routed odd, like when you FFE on the upper left base on metalapolis, just something you need to get used to, good luck!
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On February 20 2012 09:34 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 07:29 DrGreen wrote:I usually open 1/3 gate FE (ye, i'm playing oldfag style), then I do something like this red - wall, yellow - cannons, blue - army. This way there's only one entrance to your bases and its nearly impossible to flank as zerg. With that its pretty easy to defend 3 bases, as for 4th - I usually drop like 8 cannons to defend it, same with 5th. Low masters EU. (didnt read all the topic so dunno if anyone use this kind of wallin) The problem I have with that wall in is that walling so far up front means you don't have very far to fall back defensively. Further, that wall is very far from the wall at the 3rd. Further, low ground wall there makes taking a 4th later and defending it gets very very difficult. You are better of walling at the 4th instead of the 3rd.
So u say that my wall @ 3rd is too far and then you suggest to wall at 4th? I find it way harder to def wall @ 4th+nat at the same time. forward wall is just to prevent flanking and buy time if needed. You can always fall back to nat if zerg comes with some allin.
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Honestly that map is terrible PvZ, I just veto it. Sorry if I sound destructive but the nat and third are so far apart and there are so many entrances I just hate playing PvZ on it.
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Canada13372 Posts
On February 20 2012 10:06 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 09:34 ZeromuS wrote:On February 20 2012 07:29 DrGreen wrote:I usually open 1/3 gate FE (ye, i'm playing oldfag style), then I do something like this red - wall, yellow - cannons, blue - army. This way there's only one entrance to your bases and its nearly impossible to flank as zerg. With that its pretty easy to defend 3 bases, as for 4th - I usually drop like 8 cannons to defend it, same with 5th. Low masters EU. (didnt read all the topic so dunno if anyone use this kind of wallin) The problem I have with that wall in is that walling so far up front means you don't have very far to fall back defensively. Further, that wall is very far from the wall at the 3rd. Further, low ground wall there makes taking a 4th later and defending it gets very very difficult. You are better of walling at the 4th instead of the 3rd. So u say that my wall @ 3rd is too far and then you suggest to wall at 4th? I find it way harder to def wall @ 4th+nat at the same time. forward wall is just to prevent flanking and buy time if needed. You can always fall back to nat if zerg comes with some allin.
But then you are throwing your buildings at the left side wall away if you fall back. Building at the 4th will help you defend the 4th and from where you say you want your army positioned isn't THAT much further. I just wouldn't wall anywhere but at the 4th because if you wall the 3rd and you make a 4th base how do you get from the 3rd to the 4th without blink and even then only the stalkers will be able to help at the 4th with blink on cooldown.
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On February 20 2012 10:40 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 10:06 DrGreen wrote:On February 20 2012 09:34 ZeromuS wrote:On February 20 2012 07:29 DrGreen wrote:I usually open 1/3 gate FE (ye, i'm playing oldfag style), then I do something like this red - wall, yellow - cannons, blue - army. This way there's only one entrance to your bases and its nearly impossible to flank as zerg. With that its pretty easy to defend 3 bases, as for 4th - I usually drop like 8 cannons to defend it, same with 5th. Low masters EU. (didnt read all the topic so dunno if anyone use this kind of wallin) The problem I have with that wall in is that walling so far up front means you don't have very far to fall back defensively. Further, that wall is very far from the wall at the 3rd. Further, low ground wall there makes taking a 4th later and defending it gets very very difficult. You are better of walling at the 4th instead of the 3rd. So u say that my wall @ 3rd is too far and then you suggest to wall at 4th? I find it way harder to def wall @ 4th+nat at the same time. forward wall is just to prevent flanking and buy time if needed. You can always fall back to nat if zerg comes with some allin. But then you are throwing your buildings at the left side wall away if you fall back. Building at the 4th will help you defend the 4th and from where you say you want your army positioned isn't THAT much further. I just wouldn't wall anywhere but at the 4th because if you wall the 3rd and you make a 4th base how do you get from the 3rd to the 4th without blink and even then only the stalkers will be able to help at the 4th with blink on cooldown.
I doubt that you would easier defend buildings at ur 4th, than near nat(without leaving your main/nat vulnerable). As i said, i'm defending 4th with cannons, also I position my army on the high ground, not low(which is dumb).
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On February 20 2012 10:20 xlava wrote: Honestly that map is terrible PvZ, I just veto it. Sorry if I sound destructive but the nat and third are so far apart and there are so many entrances I just hate playing PvZ on it.
There are soo many freaking chokes and you say this map is horrible against zerg? i disagree wholeheartedly
I've been either doing 2 base all in ( when i scout he's being too greedy) or go for a colossi midgame and take a third and wall off at the fourth, keep a zealot on the watchtower and position your army between the two small high ground area's to the third side of the watchtower. You can see armies coming from both sides and if he tries to kill your third you can FF him into oblivion in those chokes, and colossus really shines on this map. The naniwa 2 base colossus all in is freaking hard to deal with for a zerg player due to the chokes that you can abuse.
Only problem on this map is muta play, because the bases are soo freaking far spread out, so if zerg doesn't do fast 3 hatch i do blink stalker all in that hits just before the muta's come out.
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Hmm, why not try to take a more offensive third at the 9 o'clock? It's actually really close to the main as well as the Zerg 4th.
Keep the army by the watchtower. Put an obs above the patch of trees at 11 and one at third/fourth to keep tabs on if his army's gonna attack-- if he tries to go from the third, you can get there fast enough and have high ground advantage. 9 seems fairly easy to defend because there's just one ramp there that you can attack from-- the back one is half blocked by rocks, and you can warp in pretty close on the low ground from main.
I haven't played KC yet though, so maybe I'm being silly.
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On February 20 2012 04:56 -_- wrote: I'm having a lot of trouble stopping muta on this map. 3rd is tough to defend (for both p and z) unless you have a massive flying fleet! Yeesh! Gotta get some more games on it to get a feel though, my army splitting isn't the best yet. I do like the map quite a bit, and the watchtower was clearly well placed. I feel like in some blizzard maps they just throw them in in random places. But I guess that's b/c watchtowers don't make all that much sense in 4 player maps b/c the different spawning positions make it so you need the tower in different places.
Try getting high templar / archon in your mineral line be sure you get storm researched get 3 cannons powered by 2 pylons archon in middle of the mineral line and archon outside. Do this for all the bases you get. And 4 blink stalkers in each base should be able to hold of any expansions you get.
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