And you guys aren't gonna win STX for the second time.
Winning only in the playoffs against you is totally fine by me. You are a strong team and we lost two times due to having just Flash and Stats performing well. I'm ok if we lost all our games in each round and take you out in the playoffs.
I would like to see Stats vs Bogus once more, their last game was very entertaining.
small victories that amount to nothing if you aren't winning others.
oh shit, WHAT HAVE I BECOME?
Small victories that gets us to the finals. You just happen to win the last game, there's nothing I can really say to that though as you are the reigning champion. But it's not like we don't win games.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
KT might be the double proleague champions, defending their thrown and beating the best team to zero while doing so, but they feel like a bunch of guys who just get lucky every time they win. Also, i didnt read the thread about suny, perfective and anyppi yet. hope they secretly train for the kt sc2 team;-)
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases(Ruby, HiyA, Midas, Anytime), and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger . Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
Luxury is the only one who we purchased from a low sponsored team from sparkyz , I thought forgg was from Lecaf Oz which is one of those rich companies .
Good grief guys. KT is the Champion and we, the fans, should act like it.
So yea, its gonna be the repeat Proleague champion against a team who's only claim to fame is being on the final of ... STX Masters cup before getting demolished by Hyuk.
Flash will absolutely rape Last and show him the difference between winning six Starleagues and winning six regular Proleague games. Although I kinda want Flash to face Calm just to see him dismatle Calm, yet again.
Stats will destroy Bogus, thoroughly this time.
And ... um well, someone will just gonna have to step up or getting lucky. But hey, if Hyuk could do it why cant CH or Action, right ?
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
Luxury is the only one who we purchased from a low sponsored team from sparkyz , I thought forgg was from Lecaf Oz which is one of those rich companies .
Rich sponsors do not mean rich teams. Lecaf OZ was definitely one of the poorer teams.
I like how Mustaju is arguing fervently that his team is worse.
KT won back to back titles, guys, they're the evil dynasty. Though I think people are taking it too far with "forced their own players to retire" and "They do nothing but buy players!!!" stuff.
we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
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