On January 17 2012 08:22 Hinanawi wrote: You're all out of miracles, STX. It's time for best KT to smack some reality back into you!
Not going to happen, we are going to ride this winning streak to the end of the world.
And then lap it.
Huh, the temptation is immense as to whether or not to enlist myself into STX again. I just like Bogus' play so much and Calm was, once upon a time, my favorite player.
On January 17 2012 08:22 Hinanawi wrote: You're all out of miracles, STX. It's time for best KT to smack some reality back into you!
Not going to happen, we are going to ride this winning streak to the end of the world.
And then lap it.
Huh, the temptation is immense as to whether or not to enlist myself into STX again. I just like Bogus' play so much and Calm was, once upon a time, my favorite player.
On January 17 2012 08:49 Xiphos wrote: Bogus vs Flash, that's what I'm asking for.
ehh... I don't think Bogus's TvT is nearly good enough for that yet. I could be wrong, but his game against Piano kind of left a bad impression on me. I really enjoyed the last Bogus vs. Stats though, so here's hoping for a rematch! ^^
haha that banner is so awesome (but i think that should be Last face there) . KT as a Drago, rofl - WE CRUSH YOU BALBOA. STX coach doing nice job with MU, but i hope it wont matter , KT for another 3:1 with Flash showing Last whos da real boss.
I gotta say, STX fans are getting mighty uppity because you beat SKT twice. Granted that is a worthy feat however (and as much as it loathes me to say it), KT is simply on another level to SKT at the moment. Flash is Flash, Stats is the best protoss player and are almost considered sure-fire wins.
I'm hoping Last was just being a little rascal in his last interview and gets sent out against Flash. Either way, someone's winning streak is going to end.
On January 17 2012 11:10 Dakkas wrote: I gotta say, STX fans are getting mighty uppity because you beat SKT twice. Granted that is a worthy feat however (and as much as it loathes me to say it), KT is simply on another level to SKT at the moment. Flash is Flash, Stats is the best protoss player and are almost considered sure-fire wins.
Not so much beating SKT twice as actually winning games now!!
On January 17 2012 11:10 Dakkas wrote: I gotta say, STX fans are getting mighty uppity because you beat SKT twice. Granted that is a worthy feat however (and as much as it loathes me to say it), KT is simply on another level to SKT at the moment. Flash is Flash, Stats is the best protoss player and are almost considered sure-fire wins.
Not so much beating SKT twice as actually winning games now!!
We can take on the world!!
We've beaten every team in the league except KT correct??
^my answer cause I'm bad at predicting players based on maps. I mean I know basic things like Outlier is bad for Terran so we won't likely see a Terran there...but picking players doesn't matter to me :p
Hoping for Shuttle/Bogus/Last win, in any case. I'd love to see Shuttle vs Flash mini-rivalry continue :D
Also bogus can beat stats, last can too whomever he damn well pleases, and modesty can snipe hoejja, crazyhyrda or action, calm can always squeak out a win (maybe VS flash) and dear is an awesome player who keeps getting better and can handle himself vs any player not flash/stats.
what the hell? havent seen that much of stx icons like ever? Fun fact about STX - noone is afraid of Flash there (not even Dear) - like everyone said in interview that wants to play him. God Young Ho - show them no mercy! KT Roflstomper for another 3:0! (edit' ok ok 3;1 - let Balboa punch us once)
EDIT: was preaching to the choir. Also, I think everyone should want a Stats vs. Bogus. If it ends up being nearly as good as the last one, it is the best game of the week.
On January 17 2012 14:20 Lightwip wrote: In a "lesser of two evils" match, one of these teams is clearly the moral favorite in my eyes.
please do tell which one?.
Don't encourage the hate. I'm completely baffled as how anyone could consider STX of all teams evil.
Through its connection to certain evil teams on the grand spectrum, along with through the periodic actions of a certain meat-loving creature, this becomes simpler to comprehend.
The way I see stx winning is if bogus and last do not play flash and stats and instead get two wins against KT's second tier players combined with a win in the final set. I like both teams, though KT is my #1, so I hope to see a good series with some epic flash TvT action.
While I wouldn't call it certainty, I'd definitely say Bogus has a very good chance against Stats. Bogus TvP is top-notch, and he has a significant head-to-head lead. And while he messed up last game (stats' only victory), you have to consider he was still slightly slumping at that time, and he almost came back from a certain loss. If I were KT, I'd try to either feed Bogus a Zerg or snipe him with Flash. Stats is not a safe option.
I think we need credit where it is due: Stats is a damn good player. This season, he's hands down the best protoss. Granted that his vT isn't quite as good as his vP and vZ, i think it's fair to say that odds would be 50-50 against bogus.
On January 17 2012 16:34 WTFTerran wrote: pff i think that no one zergs of KT cant play against bogus who can beat him? hoejja? crazy hydra? dont think so
didn't C-H just beat Light? Why would he then have no chance against bogus? Are you suggesting that Light's TvZ is worse than Bogus's?
On January 17 2012 16:34 WTFTerran wrote: pff i think that no one zergs of KT cant play against bogus who can beat him? hoejja? crazy hydra? dont think so
didn't C-H just beat Light? Why would he then have no chance against bogus? Are you suggesting that Light's TvZ is worse than Bogus's?
if you lift your rax at wall when 8 lings are a few pixels away, then yes.
While I wouldn't call it certainty, I'd definitely say Bogus has a very good chance against Stats. Bogus TvP is top-notch, and he has a significant head-to-head lead. And while he messed up last game (stats' only victory), you have to consider he was still slightly slumping at that time, and he almost came back from a certain loss. If I were KT, I'd try to either feed Bogus a Zerg or snipe him with Flash. Stats is not a safe option.
Saying that either player slumped that game is an insult to stats early game and bogus' late game
On January 17 2012 16:14 Release wrote: I think we need credit where it is due: Stats is a damn good player. This season, he's hands down the best protoss. Granted that his vT isn't quite as good as his vP and vZ, i think it's fair to say that odds would be 50-50 against bogus.
I don't know about hands down. Best is up there despite that loss to Last. Stats similarly had a carrier loss to Sea, who's hardly been tearing up toss this season
While I wouldn't call it certainty, I'd definitely say Bogus has a very good chance against Stats. Bogus TvP is top-notch, and he has a significant head-to-head lead. And while he messed up last game (stats' only victory), you have to consider he was still slightly slumping at that time, and he almost came back from a certain loss. If I were KT, I'd try to either feed Bogus a Zerg or snipe him with Flash. Stats is not a safe option.
Saying that either player slumped that game is an insult to stats early game and bogus' late game
Bogus was on a bad streak, and his early game wasn't any good at all. Bogus' late game was great, but I don't think I'm insulting anyone.
On January 17 2012 16:34 WTFTerran wrote: pff i think that no one zergs of KT cant play against bogus who can beat him? hoejja? crazy hydra? dont think so
On January 17 2012 16:34 WTFTerran wrote: pff i think that no one zergs of KT cant play against bogus who can beat him? hoejja? crazy hydra? dont think so
didn't C-H just beat Light? Why would he then have no chance against bogus? Are you suggesting that Light's TvZ is worse than Bogus's?
If you're gonna comment you really should watch the games first. Flash and Stats are realistically the only two on KT that can beat Bogus atm.
And you guys aren't gonna win STX for the second time.
Winning only in the playoffs against you is totally fine by me. You are a strong team and we lost two times due to having just Flash and Stats performing well. I'm ok if we lost all our games in each round and take you out in the playoffs.
I would like to see Stats vs Bogus once more, their last game was very entertaining.
small victories that amount to nothing if you aren't winning others.
oh shit, WHAT HAVE I BECOME?
Small victories that gets us to the finals. You just happen to win the last game, there's nothing I can really say to that though as you are the reigning champion. But it's not like we don't win games.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
KT might be the double proleague champions, defending their thrown and beating the best team to zero while doing so, but they feel like a bunch of guys who just get lucky every time they win. Also, i didnt read the thread about suny, perfective and anyppi yet. hope they secretly train for the kt sc2 team;-)
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases(Ruby, HiyA, Midas, Anytime), and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger . Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
Luxury is the only one who we purchased from a low sponsored team from sparkyz , I thought forgg was from Lecaf Oz which is one of those rich companies .
Good grief guys. KT is the Champion and we, the fans, should act like it.
So yea, its gonna be the repeat Proleague champion against a team who's only claim to fame is being on the final of ... STX Masters cup before getting demolished by Hyuk.
Flash will absolutely rape Last and show him the difference between winning six Starleagues and winning six regular Proleague games. Although I kinda want Flash to face Calm just to see him dismatle Calm, yet again.
Stats will destroy Bogus, thoroughly this time.
And ... um well, someone will just gonna have to step up or getting lucky. But hey, if Hyuk could do it why cant CH or Action, right ?
On January 17 2012 18:21 Sawamura wrote: Why is kt the bad guy we were supposed to be rocky and stx is suppose to be the draco ..
Who is the underdog with a burning desire to prove oneself with almost all original players and who is the evil powerhungry consortium with lots of money and a history of buying players from their teams? Who has played their entire A-team just to survive in the harsh conditions of PL and triumph against all adversity and who just made 3 of their players retire because they had no place in the current team lineup? Who is a multiple times champion whom people want to see toppled and who is a force that is rising from riddicule to possible greatness?
While SKT still beats you in terms of being evil, you are definitely not the good guys in this comparison.
Even thought KTF Magic had on paper the best players we couldn't win a single proleague finals unlike SKT1 which are made of really talented players thanks to iloveoov and boxer rallying their team to victory . Second KT rolster made in to the play off because of winner league and if it wasn't because of flash and stats carrying our team and our zerg line playing their best we wouldn't have come this far by anyway . We were terrible in regular pro league rounds and i think we were that lucky and are the underdog at this point if you ask me .
Our opponents on paper were tremendously good compared to our Zerg (Joke ) line of players and yet we were still able to make a come back and win against the odds . It's fine that you want to defend your team and say that KT rolster is in advantageous in every possible manner . But from a kt fan perspective , our team is really fragile if you put it under the micro scope and look at it in a really detailed manner .
Fact of the matter is, a lot of your lineup is still not trained by your team, but purchased while they were doing well, instead of when they were slumping. Here's a short list of players whom I'd extend that claim to: Action (eSTRO), Crazy-Hydra (Woongjin), Mind (WeMade), Wooki (WeMade). If we stretch it further, even Flash can be said to have been in WeMade when he was first scouted, but that would be demagoguery on my behalf.
It is hard to sympathize with such a team from the perspective of someone who wants to root for the underdog and a self-made man (Rocky). You could argue that you lost Violet, a star player from your team, to leuchemia for now, but by and large, you have a lot more going for you off the field (team pools more money into your lineup) and on the field (2 time Proleague champions in recent years, current nr.1 in ranking, own the best performing player of all time) .
In addition, your 2 recent Proleague wins make it more difficult to root for you, since people want someone else to win for a change. I don't want another finals with either SKT or KT and I know I am not alone in this. Maybe I'll detail all of this in a later post, but I think I made my point rather clearly.
People don't want another Skt v KT finals , but the fan boy in me want's my team to succeed . The ranking isn't really that final until the season is actually over , My player's aren't really that effective all the time , Okay Flash could be the one that can bring one game home , However Stats at his current form there is a great chance he will slip up and by that I mean losing is possible that's one game down if it happens , What else do kt rolster in their team ? Hoejja ? Action ? , I wouldn't even though If I am a kt fan bet my life on them to be honest unless it is flash is the one I am able to choose .
How does any of this relate to the topic of being an underdog vs. STX? It doesn't. Purely by ELO, there is no comparison of the teams top 3 players. There is an immense ELO gap between Modesty and Stats, for example. (the 2-nd best player of their teams according to TLPD) Making a lineup with Flash, Stats, Mind and Wooki sound bad compared to Bogus, Last, Modesty and Calm... I don't see how you can make such an argument.
Wooki and Mind are great addition to the team , Of course most of the player's are bought from other team , same can be said to your great Protoss sniper hyvaa and Classic both of them are from estro's and even your acquisition of shy from the player's draft . However does that mean , if you buy an under performing player , your player's will become an instant champions ? . Crazy hydra , Action , wooki and Mind are reasonable players but they aren't made of the S class material .
I didn't say we don't buy players, but there's a difference in the method. KT buys players that are doing well, STX buys players that are slumping and nurses them back to health. The only possible exception to this could be Dear (not Shy, get your facts straight!), but he barely got playtime compared to possible other purchases, and he was arguably the worst performing of the OZ protoss trio in Dream league and nowhere near as promising as Wooki, whom KT bought. (Ruby, hiyA, Midas, Anytime). Former purchases - horribly slumping July and Proleague loss king Frozean with 0-12 win record. KT bought Luxury and forGG, both had won starleagues recently. I claim there is a difference in these approaches, and that the one of STX is a lot more likable.
My team is basically made of a player's that have hidden potential and some times they do bring up their best game and some day's not and it always a 50 % chance that my team can Fail in the most horrible manner if they aren't playing that well .
That is true of many teams, but your team has the least excuses to be that way. Especially against teams like STX who have a long history of underperforming in critical situations and slumping for basically half a season straight.
But most of the player's that KT bought are starleague winners usually slump or fade away and in that sense it doesn't make us any stronger Besides that why can't the 50% chance of failure can't be applied for my team ? Modesty can win KT zerg's line since his a ZvZ sniper , Last can win Mind in a TvT which is possible if mind is slumping right now , Bogus can take down Stats and he has shown in the game he could if he had better control in the late game .Upset's can happen , anything can happen in broodwar ....
I have to admit that purchasing wooki was the best thing to happen for kt but that still only edges us a bit more than of the opponent's line up . Using the elo to determine players performance isn't really that substantial , a player could be on a winning streak that's why his ELO is high at this point , however the next day he could be on a slump and will keep losing .
That's why I am saying it's just to early to say that KT Rolster is the dominant team and by no means can we walk over stx easily . Than again I do admit that my team edges out your team just basing on our recent performance on not even sending out flash to finish of woongjin but that doesn't mean , my team is going to be dominating this season .
Did you really just argue that the fact that your starleague winners suck after they get bought by KT somehow makes the act of buying players from poorer teams more excusable? If anything, that makes it worse! It can be reasonably argued that those slumps might have been avoided. "Anything is possible, everyone can fail" is not an argument for underdog status, especially if it comes from the team that's on top. The team is on top because it wins more. The ELO's of the players are higher because they have more wins, more experience and more confidence. That is what makes someone a champion and what makes someone the underdog in the first place! ELO matters and while any conclusion for this season is indeed anecdotal in nature, I think STX will be regarded as the underdog of this game by a large majority of the viewership, including both KT and STX fans.
Luxury is the only one who we purchased from a low sponsored team from sparkyz , I thought forgg was from Lecaf Oz which is one of those rich companies .
Rich sponsors do not mean rich teams. Lecaf OZ was definitely one of the poorer teams.
I like how Mustaju is arguing fervently that his team is worse.
KT won back to back titles, guys, they're the evil dynasty. Though I think people are taking it too far with "forced their own players to retire" and "They do nothing but buy players!!!" stuff.
On January 17 2012 20:41 TwoToneTerran wrote: I like how Mustaju is arguing fervently that his team is worse.
KT won back to back titles, guys, they're the evil dynasty. Though I think people are taking it too far with "forced their own players to retire" and "They do nothing but buy players!!!" stuff.
Unfortunately, that's what buying players means - your own rookies and old guard get less playtime. While I was a bit exaggerating for dramatic effect, I do feel my points are valid.
Also, despite me arguing that we are the underdog, I still think we can win.
Wait, did I misread that thread? Everything I saw was that the players quit on their own accord because the new format meant they were never going to play.
For instance, Reach didn't "suddenly" retire. He's as old as old guard gets. Stop painting them as some diabolical organization.
If you're saying you're the underdog, you're saying you're worse. That's what an underdog is. It doesn't matter if you "think" they can win. You're implicitly saying they have less chance of winning.
On January 17 2012 20:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: I cannot possibly fathom how you guys associate evil and good with teams of koreans who play videogames.
There is no moral scale of the league, stop trying to paint it that way. It's just rude to whoever you're calling evil for no reason.
Take it one step further and you can argue there is no morality at all. Good and Evil are terms used to describe positive and negative things in every kind of context, and sports is no exception. Is it oversimplified and nonsensical in a universal scale? Yes. I'd still argue that it holds as much validity to assign these judgements to teams as it does to cheer for the players in the first place. Both are emotional responses representing value systems, and I sincerely believe that 2 teams having better funding than the others created a worse environment for Proleague. According to my own judgement, my responses are within acceptable parametres regarding the emotional premise of the argument itself.
On January 17 2012 20:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: I cannot possibly fathom how you guys associate evil and good with teams of koreans who play videogames.
There is no moral scale of the league, stop trying to paint it that way. It's just rude to whoever you're calling evil for no reason.
Take it one step further and you can argue there is no morality at all. Good and Evil are terms used to describe positive and negative things in every kind of context, and sports is no exception. Is it oversimplified and nonsensical in a universal scale? Yes. I'd still argue that it holds as much validity to assign these judgements to teams as it does to cheer for the players in the first place. Both are emotional responses representing value systems, and I sincerely believe that 2 teams having better funding than the others created a worse environment for Proleague. According to my own judgement, my responses are within acceptable parametres regarding the emotional premise of the argument itself.
This is so convoluted. Do you actually believe KT is evil, honestly?
Like I usually brush off the "X team is evil! Y Team is heroes!" as just jovial taunting on the forums but this thread devolved into some intentionally brandishing chat that comes across as ridiculous to me. I mean I've called SKT evil plenty of times but they're not actually evil, that'd be dumb.
On January 17 2012 20:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: I cannot possibly fathom how you guys associate evil and good with teams of koreans who play videogames.
There is no moral scale of the league, stop trying to paint it that way. It's just rude to whoever you're calling evil for no reason.
Take it one step further and you can argue there is no morality at all. Good and Evil are terms used to describe positive and negative things in every kind of context, and sports is no exception. Is it oversimplified and nonsensical in a universal scale? Yes. I'd still argue that it holds as much validity to assign these judgements to teams as it does to cheer for the players in the first place. Both are emotional responses representing value systems, and I sincerely believe that 2 teams having better funding than the others created a worse environment for Proleague. According to my own judgement, my responses are within acceptable parametres regarding the emotional premise of the argument itself.
This is so convoluted. Do you actually believe KT is evil, honestly?
On a universal scale? Of course not. That would be stupid. Noone honestly compares Bisu to Pol Pot. In the context of Proleague? Sure I could. Doesn't seem far fetched at all for me to claim that KT has influenced Proleague in a negative way. I don't think KT is evil myself, but I see how one can make the argument. I do however believe that if you had to pick an evil side and a good side from a STX-KT match, KT has a lot more negative things associated with it.
If you make the argument then you're dumb. How many players who got dumped from folded teams did STX pick up? Oh, what's that, your team wanted to trade EVERYONE for underperforming last season? What callous monsters!
There's lots of dumb, irrelevant crap people come up with but there's no "Evil in context" thing. It's "I like this team more so I root for them and taunt the other team" not "here is a list of things I hate about this team and why they are evil without context".
Like, I'm totally cool with "I don't like KT because they've won the last two championships and I'd like to see my team/another team do it." This is how KT fans were two years ago, and it's how I feel in plenty of other sports I watch. But none of this stuff is evil. If it is then every team is evil because they all have the same goal in mind.
On January 17 2012 21:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: If you make the argument then you're dumb. How many players who got dumped from folded teams did STX pick up? Oh, what's that, your team wanted to trade EVERYONE for underperforming last season? What callous monsters!
There's lots of dumb, irrelevant crap people come up with but there's no "Evil in context" thing. It's "I like this team more so I root for them and taunt the other team" not "here is a list of things I hate about this team and why they are evil without context".
How do you really justify differentiating the two? I see no substantive difference, only different degrees of emotional investment.
As far as the trade argument goes, I never justified or endorsed that. Fortunately, it never came to that and I feel the team is better for it. Also, the team manager expressly stated they would only do player-for-player trades, which I think is a bit better than imbalancing proleague when only money affects trades.
I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
On January 17 2012 21:41 Iplaythings wrote: You be offtopic'ing
Welcome to an LR thread before the game, there's no topic because there's nothing live yet. We're discussing the two teams, albeit in a roundabout philosophical way.
On January 17 2012 21:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
In my opinion, you are overvalueing the importance of money, but seeing as you support KT, I'm not all that surprised. While money is important, there are also other considerations, and my value system system places greater emphasis on balanced leagues and long term team loyalty than "Cash makes right." Call it Idealism vs. Pragmatism. KT can be seen as evil, STX can be seen as good, morality just works that way thanks to subjectivism. Extremes are stupid, but it is that way. In this context, we bring forward artificial extremes, and seeing as we are mostly strongly emotionally invested in this niche scene, we form strong value judgements that can be simplified in more everyday words. I am emotionally invested, so I follow suit, and express my sympathies and antipathy in common archetypes such as good and evil in metaphors such as STX= Rocky, KT= Drago.
See it as sort of a mental exercise as opposed to how seriously you are apparently taking this analysis of traits. Or dismiss it altogether, I don't care. I'm just arguing for the fun of it.
On January 17 2012 21:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
In my opinion, you are overvalueing the importance of money, but seeing as you support KT, I'm not all that surprised.
On January 17 2012 21:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
In my opinion, you are overvalueing the importance of money, but seeing as you support KT, I'm not all that surprised.
Holy shit. Yeah, I'm out of here.
whats this TTT is bailing on an argument?
now i've seen everything.
no mustaju KT is not evil, they are just winning, if you want to look at it from a moral standpoint ask KT being evil and STX being good or whatever be my guest, but it accomplishes nothing other than to negatively affect KT fans which in itself bad.
negativity breeds negativity.
this also applies to SKT fans or any other team fans but, SKT fans they love being treated that way, at least most of them do( I don't want to over generalize)..
On January 17 2012 21:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
In my opinion, you are overvalueing the importance of money, but seeing as you support KT, I'm not all that surprised.
Holy shit. Yeah, I'm out of here.
whats this TTT is bailing on an argument?
now i've seen everything.
no mustaju KT is not evil, they are just winning, if you want to look at it from a moral standpoint ask KT being evil and STX being good or whatever be my guest, but it accomplishes nothing other than to negatively affect KT fans which in itself bad.
negativity breeds negativity.
this also applies to SKT fans or any other team fans but, SKT fans they love being treated that way.
On January 17 2012 21:09 mustaju wrote: (...)I don't think KT is evil myself, but I see how one can make the argument. (...)
On January 17 2012 21:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't, I think it's dumb trying to black and white every move made by every team.
For instance on your last point, "only money" no only affects every action in every sport, but it is the only important factor in all of the actions. The baseline for ALL of them is managing how much money you're allowed to spend (whether it's self enforced or league enforced).
KT isn't evil, STX isn't good. They're companies sponsoring a fun little niche league of little consequence. Until they start flagrantly supporting bad things or people who do bad things, then it's a moot point.
In my opinion, you are overvalueing the importance of money, but seeing as you support KT, I'm not all that surprised.
Holy shit. Yeah, I'm out of here.
whats this TTT is bailing on an argument?
now i've seen everything.
no mustaju KT is not evil, they are just winning, if you want to look at it from a moral standpoint ask KT being evil and STX being good or whatever be my guest, but it accomplishes nothing other than to negatively affect KT fans which in itself bad.
negativity breeds negativity.
this also applies to SKT fans or any other team fans but, SKT fans they love being treated that way.
its not like kt is ns-germany and stx is the allies, or kt is the sheriff of nottingham and stx is robin hood. its not like kt is the child-raper and stx is the cops. you cant paint this picture in black and white.
how about this analogy: kt is the driver who drives 120 km/h where only 100 km/h is allowed (evil) and stx drives 90 km/h because they are so good?
On January 17 2012 23:42 Heimatloser wrote: its not like kt is ns-germany and stx is the allies, or kt is the sheriff of nottingham and stx is robin hood. its not like kt is the child-raper and stx is the cops. you cant paint this picture in black and white.
how about this analogy: kt is the driver who drives 120 km/h where only 100 km/h is allowed (evil) and stx drives 90 km/h because they are so good?
Well, I'd say STX is the underdog, and KT is the clear favorite, but I wouldnt use villain and evil. Rocky wasn't really an allegory for good VS evil, but rather a classic story of an underdog fighter rising from obscurity.
See, STX is bad ass enough to go work double-time as not only the rebel force against the evil empire but also climb the fighting ladder and knock out world class brawling hegemonies in the ring as well.
On January 18 2012 01:06 Sawamura wrote: Now that we don't have perfective ... Can we field in perfectman please ?
not till next month no?
I'm pretty sure hes not on this month's roster.
I am still bitter over perfective retirement , He contributed to the proleague finals wins and even won Pretty[gm] in a straight up macro game . How could he lose interest .... I just don't get it , I could have understand if it's sunny and Anyppi but not perfective man ..
On January 18 2012 01:06 Sawamura wrote: Now that we don't have perfective ... Can we field in perfectman please ?
not till next month no?
I'm pretty sure hes not on this month's roster.
I am still bitter over perfective retirement , He contributed to the proleague finals wins and even won Pretty[gm] in a straight up macro game . How could he lose interest .... I just don't get it , I could have understand if it's sunny and Anyppi but not perfective man ..
What? Perfective retired? How come? When? That's really sad. He played such a huge role in KTs playoff run last season. Without him we wouldn't have won
The recently surging STX, versus the defending champs! Honestly KT looks unbeatable with Flash+Stats pretty much winning every time, and surely someone else will squeeze out a narrow win somewhere in the middle. Last versus Flash would be an interesting match, battle of the undefeated - only one will remain that way afterwards!
On January 18 2012 03:15 OpticalShot wrote: The recently surging STX, versus the defending champs! Honestly KT looks unbeatable with Flash+Stats pretty much winning every time, and surely someone else will squeeze out a narrow win somewhere in the middle. Last versus Flash would be an interesting match, battle of the undefeated - only one will remain that way afterwards!
Or stats could drag Last into the club of the people with 1 loss
On January 18 2012 03:07 Kiett wrote: KT is evil. They must be destroyed!!!!!!
You're an SKT fan you're supposed to antifanboy use
On January 17 2012 23:42 Heimatloser wrote: its not like kt is ns-germany and stx is the allies, or kt is the sheriff of nottingham and stx is robin hood. its not like kt is the child-raper and stx is the cops. you cant paint this picture in black and white.
how about this analogy: kt is the driver who drives 120 km/h where only 100 km/h is allowed (evil) and stx drives 90 km/h because they are so good?
Dont hate us!!! Love us! KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Ok ill make my comparison too!
KT is iceberg , STX is a freakin Titanic. U had a nice run but u goin down now! U GOIN DOWN!!
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/
Thats just the way i see it , not gonna lie i train martial art and being respectful to your opponents in place i train is just a normal thing , thats why its pretty shocking to me seeing some stuff people write here..
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/.
It's a cultural thing, I guess.
There's a difference between confidence and outright arrogance. Stork was arrogant (especially in his earlier days). FBH was arrogant. Oov was arrogant. Savior was arrogant (I'll destroy everyone in 2009. ok?). Dear, Bogus and Last are not. What are they suppose to say? I can't win? They didn't say I'm gonna destroy Flash ez k thanks. They want to go up against the best, not cower in fear. Those going in with a defeatist attitude shouldn't even be a professional gamer.
Every single progamer that has been interviewed has had interviews where they went like blah blah I'll work harder. Every. Single. One. Flash, like every pros, gives those generic response, but he also has had moments where he deviated from the norm. He had one ceremony where he essentially acknowledged his nickname "God" Young Ho (I don't think anyone calling himself God can be too humble. Just saying). Bisu is one of the shyest personalities, and gives plenty of "I'll work harder" responses as well as the lol-insurance-group ones. Seems like you're judging the players based on your selective memory.
Please God make the match between Flash and Last on Electric Circuit, let it be the most epic TvT one and a half hour long! And give Last the power to destroy Terminator!
Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ...
I was really dissapointed when Stork did this. I think it is necessary to show respect for army people. Eventually, Piano is the soldier.
On January 18 2012 06:28 ne4aJIb wrote: Please God make the match between Flash and Last on Electric Circuit, let it be the most epic TvT one and a half hour long! And give Last the power to destroy Terminator!
On January 18 2012 04:19 NukeTheStars wrote: I love banners like this, Shimmy. It even sparked a nebulous debate about good and evil in the thread. That's the sign of a good banner.
Haha thanks Nuke. You should totally cast this series if you're not planning on watching. It's the last one before the break anyways.
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/.
It's a cultural thing, I guess.
There's a difference between confidence and outright arrogance. Stork was arrogant (especially in his earlier days). FBH was arrogant. Oov was arrogant. Savior was arrogant (I'll destroy everyone in 2009. ok?). Dear, Bogus and Last are not. What are they suppose to say? I can't win? They didn't say I'm gonna destroy Flash ez k thanks. They want to go up against the best, not cower in fear. Those going in with a defeatist attitude shouldn't even be a professional gamer.
Every single progamer that has been interviewed has had interviews where they went like blah blah I'll work harder. Every. Single. One. Flash, like every pros, gives those generic response, but he also has had moments where he deviated from the norm. He had one ceremony where he essentially acknowledged his nickname "God" Young Ho (I don't think anyone calling himself God can be too humble. Just saying). Bisu is one of the shyest personalities, and gives plenty of "I'll work harder" responses as well as the lol-insurance-group ones. Seems like you're judging the players based on your selective memory.
I know theres a difference thats why i explained that manifesting ur confidence means being arrogant - i actually checked up dictionary for that , have really no idea about players u mentioned because i watch BW like 1.5 year so cant have opinion about it.
I think i didnt made my last post clear "Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games" I meant that i could give u a lot of examples people being to condifent but instead of that i will show u examples not being necessarily arrogant , but for whatever reasons i disliked them , therefore im not saying Last , Bogus are arrogant at all. Im not saying that Dear shouldnt be condifent , but cmon ... Hon_Sin could also say he can beat every P on earth now left and right since he beat Bisu once and its not like everyone would have to like it what he says...
Its not that i have selective memory , nothing is only black or white , not saying Flash is perfect (dunno that interview with Flash but cmon thats the worst thing u could find for him?) i was just trying to make a point that KT players are probably the most manner players in PL, because they almost never sounds arrogant, overconfident or offensive towards their opponents, thats how i see it , therefore KT team shouldnt be disliked that much .. (but ofc i might be wrong because we see their interviews soooo rarelly - cmon KT fans translate more !)
I might be wrong because i am only a human who cant be 100% objective but thats the impression i got from reading every interview i could find in english.
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/.
It's a cultural thing, I guess.
There's a difference between confidence and outright arrogance. Stork was arrogant (especially in his earlier days). FBH was arrogant. Oov was arrogant. Savior was arrogant (I'll destroy everyone in 2009. ok?). Dear, Bogus and Last are not. What are they suppose to say? I can't win? They didn't say I'm gonna destroy Flash ez k thanks. They want to go up against the best, not cower in fear. Those going in with a defeatist attitude shouldn't even be a professional gamer.
Every single progamer that has been interviewed has had interviews where they went like blah blah I'll work harder. Every. Single. One. Flash, like every pros, gives those generic response, but he also has had moments where he deviated from the norm. He had one ceremony where he essentially acknowledged his nickname "God" Young Ho (I don't think anyone calling himself God can be too humble. Just saying). Bisu is one of the shyest personalities, and gives plenty of "I'll work harder" responses as well as the lol-insurance-group ones. Seems like you're judging the players based on your selective memory.
I know theres a difference thats why i explained that manifesting ur confidence means being arrogant - i actually checked up dictionary for that , have really no idea about players u mentioned because i watch BW like 1.5 year so cant have opinion about it.
I think i didnt made my last post clear "Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games" I meant that i could give u a lot of examples people being to condifent but instead of that i will show u examples not being necessarily arrogant , but for whatever reasons i disliked them , therefore im not saying Last , Bogus are arrogant at all. Im not saying that Dear shouldnt be condifent , but cmon ... Hon_Sin could also say he can beat every P on earth now left and right since he beat Bisu once and its not like everyone would have to like it what he says...
Its not that i have selective memory , nothing is only black or white , not saying Flash is perfect (dunno that interview with Flash but cmon thats the worst thing u could find for him?) i was just trying to make a point that KT players are probably the most manner players in PL, because they almost never sounds arrogant, overconfident or offensive towards their opponents, thats how i see it , therefore KT team shouldnt be disliked that much .. (but ofc i might be wrong because we see their interviews soooo rarelly - cmon KT fans translate more !)
I might be wrong because i am only a human who cant be 100% objective but thats the impression i got from reading every interview i could find in english.
Oh my bad, I misread that part. I assumed that when you stated you know tons of examples of arrogance that you were going to state a few. Hence, I maintain that progamers are too tame and well-mannered to have a diverse character (I really doubt you can give me literally tons of examples), and wish that Flash would be a little more BM. I mean, it's clear that he's very good, and he knows it. It was quite a mold breaker when he held up that sign saying he's God Young Ho. There's a sense that he's holding back because it's the "right" thing to do. Curse you Reach and your good role-modeling.
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/.
It's a cultural thing, I guess.
There's a difference between confidence and outright arrogance. Stork was arrogant (especially in his earlier days). FBH was arrogant. Oov was arrogant. Savior was arrogant (I'll destroy everyone in 2009. ok?). Dear, Bogus and Last are not. What are they suppose to say? I can't win? They didn't say I'm gonna destroy Flash ez k thanks. They want to go up against the best, not cower in fear. Those going in with a defeatist attitude shouldn't even be a professional gamer.
Every single progamer that has been interviewed has had interviews where they went like blah blah I'll work harder. Every. Single. One. Flash, like every pros, gives those generic response, but he also has had moments where he deviated from the norm. He had one ceremony where he essentially acknowledged his nickname "God" Young Ho (I don't think anyone calling himself God can be too humble. Just saying). Bisu is one of the shyest personalities, and gives plenty of "I'll work harder" responses as well as the lol-insurance-group ones. Seems like you're judging the players based on your selective memory.
I know theres a difference thats why i explained that manifesting ur confidence means being arrogant - i actually checked up dictionary for that , have really no idea about players u mentioned because i watch BW like 1.5 year so cant have opinion about it.
I think i didnt made my last post clear "Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games" I meant that i could give u a lot of examples people being to condifent but instead of that i will show u examples not being necessarily arrogant , but for whatever reasons i disliked them , therefore im not saying Last , Bogus are arrogant at all. Im not saying that Dear shouldnt be condifent , but cmon ... Hon_Sin could also say he can beat every P on earth now left and right since he beat Bisu once and its not like everyone would have to like it what he says...
Its not that i have selective memory , nothing is only black or white , not saying Flash is perfect (dunno that interview with Flash but cmon thats the worst thing u could find for him?) i was just trying to make a point that KT players are probably the most manner players in PL, because they almost never sounds arrogant, overconfident or offensive towards their opponents, thats how i see it , therefore KT team shouldnt be disliked that much .. (but ofc i might be wrong because we see their interviews soooo rarelly - cmon KT fans translate more !)
I might be wrong because i am only a human who cant be 100% objective but thats the impression i got from reading every interview i could find in english.
Wow... I'm really surprised that Bisu said that winning against zergs doesn't feel like winning any more... Because I've just looked up "SKT interview" in the search bar, and went through like back to the first round of last year (when you started watching BW I'm guessing) and except for 2/3 times where Bisu says, "I'm going to get revenge" or "I'm going to win for sure" he's pretty much saying, "I was extremely lucky", "The opponent made a crucial mistake so my mistake of not doing something was covered" or "I was extremely lucky" (Yes I repeat on purpose) And in this interview, Bisu even says his PvZ is "terrible"... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208016
As you can see, I'm a fan of Bisu... my fricking ID is "Bisu-Fan" and I've followed him for ... wow has it already been 5ish years now? And while watching live interviews in Korean or reading translated versions, I've seen a mighty lot of "luck" being given credit for the win... I've even read comments to his interviews saying he's being ridiculous when he says he was lucky winning his 2nd all kill or something... But that's just my opinion defending Bisu... Yes, I fully understand you not liking people being arrogant... Citing basketball, I'm a Lebron James hater, and I love seeing Lebron making the worst choices in interviews... The first interview that comes to mind is his response to his loss in the finals at Dallas... He literally says to the reporters, "I'm better than you guys and I'm going to keep living the way I live... whether you like it or not" puahaha Sorry LBJ fans~ but that was just too juicy for everyone not to report about~ And yes, I fully agree with you, no one likes this kind of arrogance... But I think what bearbuddy in the beginning meant was that he would like to see some personality in some of teh gamers who speak their minds without just saying the boring, generic, answers... It's part of the sport in my opinion... Michael Jordan (the best player to have every played basketball) was one of the biggest trash talkers in the NBA... Everyone loved it~ I would occasionally love to see some confidence and character in some of these pros~ It'd be awesome... That's why we all watch the "talk-show" like MSL(RIP)/OSL group selection ceremonies right? :D
On January 18 2012 04:16 George_the_man wrote: KT players are very mannered , gentlemans! They are not arrogant or offensive in interviews. They are nice and respective to opponents, KT cant be evil, Kiett loves us already , so do u even if u dont know it yet!
Name one team that is arrogant in their interview. I wish there's one team that would take up the bad boy mantle, or at least, a couple of players. It would be hilarious for Flash to just go, lol ez, put down the mike, then cross his arms.
wow... ok... i cant name u teams i can name u players I dont think there is better example of being arrogant than Bests interview 30 minutes before PL 10-11 finals started , Flash literally opened his mouth when he heard Best trashing him.
Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games Recent Bisu interview - Winning Zergs doesnt feel like winning to me Dear - he beat like 3 guys and " I want to face Flash , i can win him" Stork building nexuses in his last game - its not arrogance but i think that was rude, its not like ACE can train as much as different teams , i would be very dissapointed if one of KT players would do that ... I could give so many examples like that , even Last and Bogus wants to face Flash cause they think they can win him , cmon what is that ?
Im not saying being confident is bad, its good thing , but being to confident is something i dont like at all .
And now lets go to KT . Most interviews i remember they were talking over and over how hard they need to work , or how hard they were working to bring results they achieved, dont remember them being to confident or rude towards opponents.
And now Flash... I remember his last interview when he totally schooled Horang, he was actually pointing out his own mistakes that he needs to work on in the future to become better player - that is a mentality of true champion to me. And out of all players he has the best reason to be arrogant like hell - i would probably be if i were him ;/.
It's a cultural thing, I guess.
There's a difference between confidence and outright arrogance. Stork was arrogant (especially in his earlier days). FBH was arrogant. Oov was arrogant. Savior was arrogant (I'll destroy everyone in 2009. ok?). Dear, Bogus and Last are not. What are they suppose to say? I can't win? They didn't say I'm gonna destroy Flash ez k thanks. They want to go up against the best, not cower in fear. Those going in with a defeatist attitude shouldn't even be a professional gamer.
Every single progamer that has been interviewed has had interviews where they went like blah blah I'll work harder. Every. Single. One. Flash, like every pros, gives those generic response, but he also has had moments where he deviated from the norm. He had one ceremony where he essentially acknowledged his nickname "God" Young Ho (I don't think anyone calling himself God can be too humble. Just saying). Bisu is one of the shyest personalities, and gives plenty of "I'll work harder" responses as well as the lol-insurance-group ones. Seems like you're judging the players based on your selective memory.
I know theres a difference thats why i explained that manifesting ur confidence means being arrogant - i actually checked up dictionary for that , have really no idea about players u mentioned because i watch BW like 1.5 year so cant have opinion about it.
I think i didnt made my last post clear "Arrogance is also manifestating overconfidence - I can give u tons of examples here , literally tons, but id rather show u few behaviors i disliked in recent games" I meant that i could give u a lot of examples people being to condifent but instead of that i will show u examples not being necessarily arrogant , but for whatever reasons i disliked them , therefore im not saying Last , Bogus are arrogant at all. Im not saying that Dear shouldnt be condifent , but cmon ... Hon_Sin could also say he can beat every P on earth now left and right since he beat Bisu once and its not like everyone would have to like it what he says...
Its not that i have selective memory , nothing is only black or white , not saying Flash is perfect (dunno that interview with Flash but cmon thats the worst thing u could find for him?) i was just trying to make a point that KT players are probably the most manner players in PL, because they almost never sounds arrogant, overconfident or offensive towards their opponents, thats how i see it , therefore KT team shouldnt be disliked that much .. (but ofc i might be wrong because we see their interviews soooo rarelly - cmon KT fans translate more !)
I might be wrong because i am only a human who cant be 100% objective but thats the impression i got from reading every interview i could find in english.
Wow... I'm really surprised that Bisu said that winning against zergs doesn't feel like winning any more... Because I've just looked up "SKT interview" in the search bar, and went through like back to the first round of last year (when you started watching BW I'm guessing) and except for 2/3 times where Bisu says, "I'm going to get revenge" or "I'm going to win for sure" he's pretty much saying, "I was extremely lucky", "The opponent made a crucial mistake so my mistake of not doing something was covered" or "I was extremely lucky" (Yes I repeat on purpose) And in this interview, Bisu even says his PvZ is "terrible"... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208016
As you can see, I'm a fan of Bisu... my fricking ID is "Bisu-Fan" and I've followed him for ... wow has it already been 5ish years now? And while watching live interviews in Korean or reading translated versions, I've seen a mighty lot of "luck" being given credit for the win... I've even read comments to his interviews saying he's being ridiculous when he says he was lucky winning his 2nd all kill or something... But that's just my opinion defending Bisu... Yes, I fully understand you not liking people being arrogant... Citing basketball, I'm a Lebron James hater, and I love seeing Lebron making the worst choices in interviews... The first interview that comes to mind is his response to his loss in the finals at Dallas... He literally says to the reporters, "I'm better than you guys and I'm going to keep living the way I live... whether you like it or not" puahaha Sorry LBJ fans~ but that was just too juicy for everyone not to report about~ And yes, I fully agree with you, no one likes this kind of arrogance... But I think what bearbuddy in the beginning meant was that he would like to see some personality in some of teh gamers who speak their minds without just saying the boring, generic, answers... It's part of the sport in my opinion... Michael Jordan (the best player to have every played basketball) was one of the biggest trash talkers in the NBA... Everyone loved it~ I would occasionally love to see some confidence and character in some of these pros~ It'd be awesome... That's why we all watch the "talk-show" like MSL(RIP)/OSL group selection ceremonies right? :D
Edit: yeah bearbuddy does clarify~
Bisu said it in a postmatch interview a couples matches ago against.......Effort?I believe.
On January 18 2012 09:22 The Final Boss wrote: Everybody's talking about how Rocky loses to the Russian, but let's not forget another story of an underdog vs. a Russian:
On January 18 2012 09:22 The Final Boss wrote: Everybody's talking about how Rocky loses to the Russian, but let's not forget another story of an underdog vs. a Russian:
On January 18 2012 09:22 The Final Boss wrote: Everybody's talking about how Rocky loses to the Russian, but let's not forget another story of an underdog vs. a Russian:
Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
On January 18 2012 09:59 red4ce wrote: Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
On January 18 2012 09:59 red4ce wrote: Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
On January 18 2012 09:22 The Final Boss wrote: Everybody's talking about how Rocky loses to the Russian, but let's not forget another story of an underdog vs. a Russian:
It's an awesome movie, but nothing can compare to the 1980s Miracle on Ice and Al Michael's legendary call at the end. Easily one of the most important and inspirational moments in sports history.
EDIT: It's just one of those things that makes absolutely no sense, that never should happen, but it did, sort of like when STX wins! ^^
On January 18 2012 09:59 red4ce wrote: Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
On January 18 2012 09:59 red4ce wrote: Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
You missing the point, it's about spirit, man, not story parallels.
On January 18 2012 09:59 red4ce wrote: Wait a second here. Flash's picture should be the one photoshopped onto Rocky's body and Calm should be the one on Drago. Remember this is Rocky IV we're talking about here. Rocky Balboa was already a multiple winning World Champion at the time of the fight just like KT is now. Just like Rocky, KT has a powerful lefty, a loose association with the mafia, an unbreakable chin and ends his fights in a flash. STX is Drago, the competitor who came into the spotlight by beating down the ex champ Apollo Creed (SKT) whom Rocky had himself beaten in order to become world champion (last 2 proleague finals).
You missing the point, it's about spirit, man, not story parallels.
I'd say the games today should only have Flash vs Last, Stats vs Bogus, Flash vs Bogus, Stats vs Last and then a 2v2 between Flash-Stats and Last-Bogus.
On January 18 2012 17:36 mnesthes wrote: I'd say the games today should only have Flash vs Last, Stats vs Bogus, Flash vs Bogus, Stats vs Last and then a 2v2 between Flash-Stats and Last-Bogus.
2v2 Flash/stats v bogus/last would be legit though I would favor the 2 terrans. Are they not doing 2v2 anymore? I havent seen those matches in awhile.
KT needs to snipe at least one of T with Flash or Stats i think to win this game so its highly possible we will see Flash/Stats vs Bogus/Last. (Stats said in interview he wants to avoid T so id say its Flash to snipe one of T - but who knows maybe Stats was just playing mindgame ) Got only like 1.5 hour so hope for fast win !!
Mutas continue to fly around the marines, 1 sunken comes out in time, lurkers are also there, they burrow. Mutas manage to kill more marines. Last backing off for now
Action getting to Hive!
science facility underway. Action making a pair of scourge for the vessel when it comes out
Last forced to lift his CC at the natural! His main is running low on minerals, another drop at the 3rd and the scvs are forced to run back into the natural, where there are lurkers lol
Last has a few more factories up. More lings attacking Last's 3rd, there's no defense there, just a few scvs left behind
Meanwhile Action attacks the natural once more. He's made some ultralisks, they're on their way
another drop inside the main, this time the lings target the armory! Vultures manage to save it though
swarm and ultralisks force terran metal to back away. Lings charge in afterwards. Last under immense amount of pressure atm
On January 18 2012 20:22 Kiyo. wrote: Just switched over from GSL(I think this is the first time I'm choosing to watch BW over SC2). Is action really going to win this?
I really liked Action's opening, and I think that Last could have played out the start of the game better. That said, I think it came down to Last making a big mistake in the early midgame by committing forces to the bottom left natural that could have had the same effect contributing to controlling the center. It felt like the zerg was free to keep map control for most of the game.
That 10 oclock base Last didnt scout cost him the game, he had that army blocking the fourth thinking he is awesome with 3v3 bases but he wasnt and Action just got to walk a defiler and lings to his third from there and swarm -.-
I just checked in and saw that the first line up was action vs last... I was immediately cursing KT for sending out action to fail as usual... And then I saw that he actually won! WP action!! I'm glad you won for a change...
Horrible game. Last had no idea what he was doing and his multitask sucks. Didn't even scout properly. Looks like he's not good with mm control. Action played good but its easy when the terran puts no pressure on you.
On January 18 2012 20:27 Mobius_1 wrote: Haha the Chinese commentators are comparing Action's final minutes in that game to Jaedong and Effort...
But it was a pretty good show, also kinda entertaining to see the STX Hypetrain crash into, well, Ultralisks.
The STX hypetrain ain't crashed yet. Last can reflect on his mistakes and get better, and we still have lots of undervalued players. We can still win, and it wouldn't be a rocky metaphor if we weren't stretched to our limits! :D
On January 18 2012 20:27 Mobius_1 wrote: Haha the Chinese commentators are comparing Action's final minutes in that game to Jaedong and Effort...
But it was a pretty good show, also kinda entertaining to see the STX Hypetrain crash into, well, Ultralisks.
The STX hypetrain ain't crashed yet. Last can reflect on his mistakes and get better, and we still have lots of undervalued players. We can still win, and it wouldn't be a rocky metaphor if we weren't stretched to our limits! :D
The thing that impressed me the most about that game was Action's muta control. It seems to be MUCH better than the failtastic escapades of yesteryear... Action didn't run his mutas over mm balls and he did a good job at getting Last to stim his marines for no gain.
On January 18 2012 20:23 mnesthes wrote: omg lolol Action proving that Last was overhyped by schooling him in ZvT
Or action just proved why people was hyping him in the first place.. This is what happens when people dont pressure action too, to much in the midgame
ergh! stupid action. i still think he's overhyped, but the problem is that he plays an amazing game about 1 in every 5 zvt's (while horribly failing in his other games) which makes me like him. i can't stay mad at him.
On January 18 2012 20:23 mnesthes wrote: omg lolol Action proving that Last was overhyped by schooling him in ZvT
Or action just proved why people was hyping him in the first place.. This is what happens when people dont pressure action too, to much in the midgame
ergh! stupid action. i still think he's overhyped, but the problem is that he plays an amazing game about 1 in every 5 zvt's (while horribly failing in his other games) which makes me like him. i can't stay mad at him.
On January 18 2012 20:23 mnesthes wrote: omg lolol Action proving that Last was overhyped by schooling him in ZvT
Or action just proved why people was hyping him in the first place.. This is what happens when people dont pressure action too, to much in the midgame
ergh! stupid action. i still think he's overhyped, but the problem is that he plays an amazing game about 1 in every 5 zvt's (while horribly failing in his other games) which makes me like him. i can't stay mad at him.
Action havent horribly failed any games this season, his game vs bisu looked like any other bisu vs zerg game, his game vs FBH was more to FBH's credit and then he's had some ZvZ's
On January 18 2012 20:23 mnesthes wrote: omg lolol Action proving that Last was overhyped by schooling him in ZvT
Or action just proved why people was hyping him in the first place.. This is what happens when people dont pressure action too, to much in the midgame
ergh! stupid action. i still think he's overhyped, but the problem is that he plays an amazing game about 1 in every 5 zvt's (while horribly failing in his other games) which makes me like him. i can't stay mad at him.
but action has awesome late game ZvT
yeah, hence the 1 in 5 zvt's he plays well he doesn't make it to the late game that often. he's still got the best zvt on KT (not that it means much)
On January 18 2012 20:23 mnesthes wrote: omg lolol Action proving that Last was overhyped by schooling him in ZvT
Or action just proved why people was hyping him in the first place.. This is what happens when people dont pressure action too, to much in the midgame
ergh! stupid action. i still think he's overhyped, but the problem is that he plays an amazing game about 1 in every 5 zvt's (while horribly failing in his other games) which makes me like him. i can't stay mad at him.
Action havent horribly failed any games this season, his game vs bisu looked like any other bisu vs zerg game, his game vs FBH was more to FBH's credit and then he's had some ZvZ's
yeah i haven't seen much of him this season tbh, just remembering from last season
Dear re-warping in his nexus at the natural. Goons are now armed with range, they start to dismantle the bunkers. Flash putting a bunker at his own natural.
Dear sending out a probe towards 3 o'clock, marine misses it
Reaver tech warping in. Marine scout is killed off by goons. Dear sending 2 goons to harass Flash's natural, bunker is under fire.
Stop saying its gg. This isn`t that bad for Dear. Flash wasted 200 on bunkers+ about 300-400 on marines+lost few scv`s + lost mining time for about 10 scv`s. The only reason Dear is behind is because he is playing against Flash.
shuttle is out. Flash has an ebay made, he's starting to erect turrets around his base
Meanwhile, Dear takes his 3rd at 3 o'clock. Reaver is out, loaded into the shuttle and sent on a mission to do as much damage as it can to the terran threat
3 more facts added, total of 5 Reaver arrives at the natural, scvs scatter and run for their lives
Tanks arrive, scarab scores some worker kills. Reaver continues to harass the mineral line, Flash brings in more tanks to force the reaver to leave
why did he try and push over that hill??? lost alllllll his dragoons right then for almost nothing, and now flash has so many tanks in his nat and 3rd at the same time.
shuttle arrives to drop the reaver! shuttle goes down, reaver dies shortly Dear loses a large number of goons. Flash continues to inch his tanks closer to Dear's natural
the pylon wall at the 3rd is also under attack by flash's tanks
more terran metal arrives at the natural. Protoss forces sit, waiting for a chance to engage
Dear's natural nex is almost dead, another reaver dropped via shuttle, probes join the fight!
wow a large number of tanks are taken out! Probes are dead, so is the reaver Zealots move ahead to seize the chance! but flash has too many units arriving! Dear using the mines to his advantage as best as he can
GG, btw 12n vs 1rax fe isnt that bad of a situation as people here make it out to be if you lose the nexus and your opponent pulls 10 scvs, you lose no probes and he has to build 2 bunkers.
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
P's have to stop going 12nex vs Flash. I have never seen him fail to take it down with a bunker rush. In fact most T's successfully bunker rush the 12nex these days.
On January 18 2012 20:50 Kipsate wrote: GG, btw 12n vs 1rax fe isnt that bad of a situation as people here make it out to be if you lose the nexus and your opponent pulls 10 scvs, you lose no probes and he has to build 2 bunkers.
STATS VS BOGUS NEXT PLX
I rather want Hoejja vs Bogus actually o.O (assuming Hoejja is in good shape)
By the way, now that esports tv look so set on everything this PL, vods and stream, will it be the official source of content soon, like no more restreamers or vod uppers?
On January 18 2012 20:51 pylonsalad wrote: P's have to stop going 12nex vs Flash. I have never seen him fail to take it down with a bunker rush. In fact most T's successfully bunker rush the 12nex these days.
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
It's a pleasure to watch God in action. ^__^
Flash also said in another interview that if he sees a chance to end the game he takes it... He doesn't mess around...
Ah, Starship Troopers...I think I watched two or three episodes when I was 6 or 7, and I still remember them! It was pretty good for the time. Plus, if we watch it, we don't have to watch the baseball girl... that ad gets reallllly annoying after watching it 10-11 times.
On January 18 2012 20:51 Abort Retry Fail wrote: By the way, now that esports tv look so set on everything this PL, vods and stream, will it be the official source of content soon, like no more restreamers or vod uppers?
I always choose to go on a restreamer channel rather than trying esports tv. I just like the atmosphere there better
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
It's a pleasure to watch God in action. ^__^
Flash also said in another interview that if he sees a chance to end the game he takes it... He doesn't mess around...
GG flash!
God 2.0 - deadlier, stronger, with 500% more kickass
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
It's a pleasure to watch God in action. ^__^
Yeah, I'm feeling the background behind his words. Whenever he played long macro games with JD, almost all of them didn't end well for him. ^_^
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
It's a pleasure to watch God in action. ^__^
Yeah, I'm feeling the background behind his words. Whenever he played long macro games with JD, almost all of them didn't end well for him. ^_^
On January 18 2012 20:51 pylonsalad wrote: P's have to stop going 12nex vs Flash. I have never seen him fail to take it down with a bunker rush. In fact most T's successfully bunker rush the 12nex these days.
On the other hand, no one goes toe to toe with level econ PvT, much less PvFlash. He will just roll you with 2-fac to 5-fac army.
Rax Fast Expanding while bunker rushing, pulling only like 6 SCVs and losing none of them (I think, didn't really pay attention)... baller. Don't fucking 12 Nex against Flash.
On January 18 2012 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Rax Fast Expanding while bunker rushing, pulling only like 6 SCVs and losing none of them (I think, didn't really pay attention)... baller. Don't fucking 12 Nex against Flash.
Im positive he lost 2-3 SCVs whilst building the 2nd Bunker..
On January 18 2012 20:57 Abort Retry Fail wrote: Is anyone translating the interivew?
my korean is terribly shoddy, but i THINK they asked him who he would like to play against Z and P, and he said soulkey for Z and jangbi and best for P.
On January 18 2012 21:01 Kavas wrote: Damn, I'm late - - Anyone can give me a quick summary of how Last lost to Action? Flash pretty much the only player with a perfect record now?
Please and thank you.
3 hatch before pool, lings and mutas delay and marine damage, Last decides to play passively. Action gets to Hive tech. Boom
On January 18 2012 20:57 Abort Retry Fail wrote: Is anyone translating the interivew?
my korean is terribly shoddy, but i THINK they asked him who he would like to play against Z and P, and he said soulkey for Z and jangbi and best for P.
On January 18 2012 20:48 sinistral wrote: Seems like Flash doesn't want to play lategame, probably due to his wrist.
I don't think Flash ''doesn't want to play lategame''. He said in the interview after the game vs JD that he actually prepared for a long macro game. He's just so good the games seem to turn out into fast rapes anyway.
It's a pleasure to watch God in action. ^__^
Yeah, I'm feeling the background behind his words. Whenever he played long macro games with JD, almost all of them didn't end well for him. ^_^
LOL?
the funniest thing is that I'm actually right, though not all of them, yes. But Flash had a much better luck with his timings and cool bo's than endurance. But maybe it depends on the particular matchup..
Stats tried to see if there are proxies and goes cross map, unfortunately, he follows up going in the wrong direction. Interesting early game here as Bogus could be lucky and take advantage
On January 18 2012 20:48 Mortality wrote: How is Flash so good...?
He plays off-race in his free time. :D
...It was a rhetorical question...
And I'm sure that was a joke as well...
Uhm, Flash actually is known to off-race. A lot of the greatest players can play any race at the professional level. NaDa was already #1 on Gamebugs ladder (really big deal at the time) when he played random, and Oov actually played Zerg before switching to Terran.
Im really curious about this. After the early game once the bases have been scouted and early strategies emplyed, why dont P or T get a quick 3rd just to changed things up. That is the least thing the opponent would expect. and it helped Jangbi win OSL!
vultures attempt to do another raid, this time they get through the gap at the natural, 2 vultures die, leaving only one left. vulture drops some mines at the ramp and moves onto the mineral line, stats takes out the vulture before much damage was inflicted.
Bogus's 3rd is up and running at 6.5. Stats taking his 4th base at 4.5.
vultures now attacking and forcing the nexus to cancel at 2 o'clock
emp on an arbiter, but a stasis is casted before the emp hits.
zealots attacking bogus' 3rd now! Vultures arrive to defend, they clean it up rather easily. Meanwhile there are still vultures attacking pylons at 2 o'clock.
Another emp on an arbiter. Pressure is mounting on Stats as Bogus advances his army once more
Stats has his 4th up again, but it's going to be under attack pretty soon
Stasis on some tanks! but stats' army isn't large enough to engage
On January 18 2012 21:22 gngfn wrote: It wasn't even so much the expansion location as the "I'm gonna go ahead and send my entire army hunting for mines on the other side of the map."
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
i think it's more for team moral, anything to give your team an edge when you are down 0-2
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
i don't htink he was controlling his scv at all, it was just doing its own thing
then bogus decided to build a CC
then he probably thought, "hey I hope ppl don't interpret this as a manner CC"
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
[13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus Interbiew [13:28] <@Kimoleon> when you look at this agme [13:28] <@Kimoleon> we see how much he saved his vults [13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus, did you practice your interbiew skills? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> the 6 o clock protoss 4th, what did you feel about that [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I didn't know it was up, but since it was close I felt like I could damage it [13:29] <@Kimoleon> did you feel its? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - because he took so long to take 1 o clock, I scanned and 6 was there [13:30] <@Kimoleon> back then, when you didn't have that good play ppl called you have simple play, anyone or anything that changed your playstyle to be more dynamic [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - usually I just go with the flow, with many pattersn, how did you feel here [13:30] <@Kimoleon> how did you feel here - q(Bogus almost broke siegeline) [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I felt like I was slightly in danger but it turned out wellz [13:30] <@Kimoleon> today, you came out from a 0-2 score, any pressure? [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - not really, I just played like I normally do [13:31] <@Kimoleon> what about manner ccs [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - the team spirit atm seemed a bit down, so I buildz [13:31] <@Kimoleon> if you picked a best game of yourself, which one would you pick [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I would pick today's game
On January 18 2012 21:32 Kipsate wrote: [13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus Interbiew [13:28] <@Kimoleon> when you look at this agme [13:28] <@Kimoleon> we see how much he saved his vults [13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus, did you practice your interbiew skills? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> the 6 o clock protoss 4th, what did you feel about that [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I didn't know it was up, but since it was close I felt like I could damage it [13:29] <@Kimoleon> did you feel its? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - because he took so long to take 1 o clock, I scanned and 6 was there [13:30] <@Kimoleon> back then, when you didn't have that good play ppl called you have simple play, anyone or anything that changed your playstyle to be more dynamic [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - usually I just go with the flow, with many pattersn, how did you feel here [13:30] <@Kimoleon> how did you feel here - q(stats almost broke siegeline with a runaround the mines) [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I felt like I was slightly in danger but it turned out wellz [13:30] <@Kimoleon> today, you came out from a 0-2 score, any pressure? [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - not really, I just played like I normally do [13:31] <@Kimoleon> what about manner ccs [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - the team spirit atm seemed a bit down, so I buildz [13:31] <@Kimoleon> if you picked a best game of yourself, which one would you pick [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I would pick today's game
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
[13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus Interbiew [13:28] <@Kimoleon> when you look at this agme [13:28] <@Kimoleon> we see how much he saved his vults [13:28] <@Kimoleon> Bogus, did you practice your interbiew skills? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> the 6 o clock protoss 4th, what did you feel about that [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I didn't know it was up, but since it was close I felt like I could damage it [13:29] <@Kimoleon> did you feel its? [13:29] <@Kimoleon> bogus - because he took so long to take 1 o clock, I scanned and 6 was there [13:30] <@Kimoleon> back then, when you didn't have that good play ppl called you have simple play, anyone or anything that changed your playstyle to be more dynamic [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - usually I just go with the flow, with many pattersn, how did you feel here [13:30] <@Kimoleon> how did you feel here - q(Bogus almost broke siegeline) [13:30] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I felt like I was slightly in danger but it turned out wellz [13:30] <@Kimoleon> today, you came out from a 0-2 score, any pressure? [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - not really, I just played like I normally do [13:31] <@Kimoleon> what about manner ccs [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - the team spirit atm seemed a bit down, so I buildz [13:31] <@Kimoleon> if you picked a best game of yourself, which one would you pick [13:31] <@Kimoleon> bogus - I would pick today's game
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently). in the 5set of the OSL finals i was also not impressed at all by his play, particularly his macro. flash would never collapse under pressure like that.
Pylons and gateways are made. both scouting after gateway. Probes cross paths and proceed to scout the enemy. Trap getting his gas a little before P7GAB
Trap getting a core, meanwhile P7GAB takes another pylon for that early zealot
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I feel like thats bogus, his Bio control may not be top notch but its not as bad as people make it out to be(especially recently).
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
imo people hated fanta for his mech play long before that.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
It's called Fighting Spirit. Screw you, haters. -_-
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
imo people hated fanta for his mech play long before that.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
It's called Fighting Spirit. Screw you, haters. -_-
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
fantasy is held back greatly by his deficiency in bio control imo (although he has shown improvement recently)
idk why everyone makes fun of him so much though
I'll give you a hint. It's two words. The first word begins with the letter "G".
imo people hated fanta for his mech play long before that.
and, people just mad that he 3-0ed Stork.
Oh right. I almost forgot about that. Those were good times. It was Stork's fault though, for not preparing anything.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
I don't understand why people talk about his bio control. Give me one recent game where he failed miserably in his bio control in a TvZ.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
well, if he wins more titles, i'll have to reassess my view
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
People makes these mistakes sometimes. Have you seen Sin vs Bisu?? Yeah ...
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
i don't see him anywhere near flash/jaedong/bisu but i do see him being at the same level as stork. stork has also only won 1 osl as well.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
i don't see him anywhere near flash/jaedong/bisu but i do see him being at the same level as stork. stork has also only won 1 osl as well.
i'm not sure bisu should be considered along with flash and jaedong either, honestly. and i love bisu and love when he performs well.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
I don't understand why people talk about his bio control. Give me one recent game where he failed miserably in his bio control in a TvZ.
Im a Fantasy fan, but I remember couple of times when he gave up like a control group of marines to 2-3 lurkers. And they weren't stop lurkers. Beside this moments, his bionic control is ok, it is just he prefer to use mech vZ.
Trap engages, storms are casted over the zealots reavers are dropped, trap gets storms over the reavers! But Trap is losing the battle! P7GAB advances towards Trap's natural now, the army battles uphill and breaks through as there aren't too many units left
storms again over the goons, but it's not enough to hold
Huge supply advantage for wookie But templars tech for Trap. Huge fight won by wookie Wookie enter the natural, 2imba reavers to defend, not enough Trap gg. :'(
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
i don't see him anywhere near flash/jaedong/bisu but i do see him being at the same level as stork. stork has also only won 1 osl as well.
i'm not sure bisu should be considered along with flash and jaedong either, honestly. and i love bisu and love when he performs well.
I hate flash with a passion but if I were to assess TBLS:
Flash is on 100% Bisu would be 75% JD would be 55-60% Stork would be around 50%
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
well, if he wins more titles, i'll have to reassess my view
From 2010 to 2011 the rankings were consistently much 1.Flash 2.Jaedong 3.Fantasy
Yes Bisu and Stork did have a crazy 2011 but Fanta made it into 2 finals and won one of them.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
People makes these mistakes sometimes. Have you seen Sin vs Bisu?? Yeah ...
And BOOM!!! REAVERSHUTTLE
It's one thing to make mistakes, it's another thing to make baffling mistakes like you've never learned. See, Bisu might look silly when he lost to a failed 2 Fact but people will soon forget about it. Lifting your Barracks so FREAKING Lurkers can come in? That is going to stay for a long time. I guess it's because a string of small mistakes is less memorable and discernible than a hugeass mistake.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
People makes these mistakes sometimes. Have you seen Sin vs Bisu?? Yeah ...
And BOOM!!! REAVERSHUTTLE
It's one thing to make mistakes, it's another thing to make baffling mistakes like you've never learned. See, Bisu might look silly when he lost to a failed 2 Fact but people will soon forget about it. Lifting your Barracks so FREAKING Lurkers can come in? That is going to stay for a long time. I guess it's because a string of small mistakes is less memorable and discernible than a hugeass mistake.
Why do people talk about mistakes instead of achievements is beyond me. Fantasy has been doing great and IMO he's better than Bisu. If all of the players are playing in their good days, aside from Flash, Fantasy would be way ahead of the rest including the Jaedong, Stork and Bisu.
On January 18 2012 21:24 revy wrote: Did I miss one of the manner CCs? Why do people say there were 2, I saw only one at the nat. I wouldn't really count the CC he built beside the nexus, to me that was just him expanding along his push path. I've seen Flash legitimately build CC's next to other player's expos when he while he waits for a tank or two to take it down.
There is a fundamental difference.
He was attacking it with an SCV
On January 18 2012 21:25 o[twist] wrote:
On January 18 2012 21:24 Motivate wrote: manner CC's were very uncalled for imo
but i'm glad to see bogus doing well after being on the losing end of so many good games in the first round. i have a feeling bogus has potential to be number 2 terran very soon because he can actually bio unlike fantasy
imho bogus is definitely more talented than fantasy. he's played some phenomenal games and his record doesn't reflect the skill he's shown.
Woah slow down there....
Bogus needs to win an SL first before you compare him to Fantasy.
Do SLs mean anything anymore????
yeah, that's fair. talent is a hard thing to evaluate and i guess i don't have much proof for my opinion, just the sense i've gotten over a whole slew of games
Also you have to realize that Fantasy is just being overshadowed by Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Fantasy would have been the leading Terran of BW.
idk. while he's a great player, in a lot of games, especially vZ, he just doesn't seem strong to me. he doesn't have the brilliance of TBLS and he also has a few glaring deficiencies, like bio control.
He will be legitimately considered on par with TBLS when he wins a couple more titles and finally stops his trademark "LOL WUT" moves (e.g. suiciding units into Last's 20 sieged tanks, lifting his rax to invite Calm's lurkers, etc etc)
btw, Wooki tries to push into Trap's natural but is unsuccessful.
People makes these mistakes sometimes. Have you seen Sin vs Bisu?? Yeah ...
And BOOM!!! REAVERSHUTTLE
It's one thing to make mistakes, it's another thing to make baffling mistakes like you've never learned. See, Bisu might look silly when he lost to a failed 2 Fact but people will soon forget about it. Lifting your Barracks so FREAKING Lurkers can come in? That is going to stay for a long time. I guess it's because a string of small mistakes is less memorable and discernible than a hugeass mistake.
` Jaedong forgot Consume
Stork forgot Dragoon range
Stork forgot Storm.
Bisu randomly lost a shuttle with 2 reavers in the finals of MSL.
Yes, Fantasy may have his faults but don't pretend that everyone else is flawless, we look past them and look to their achievements, and Fantasy has his achievements.
On January 18 2012 22:30 Keone wrote: The Flash match was just f*ing disgusting.
He did a double bunker rush WHILE fast expanding... against PROTOSS. WTFFFFFFFF?!?!?!?!
Why not ? when protoss is containt you can take your natural and plant a command center . It's like if you 5 fact push is successful against the protoss you keep expanding every time. I thought every starcraft player now that when you have the advantage in your hand you keep expanding your advantages .
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
Just watched all of the VODs. Monstrous performances from Action/Flash/P7GAB. Stats did pretty well too, it could've been a very different game if he could've fended off the first push. I think it was possible, but his execution wasn't good enough and he lost too much stuff to mines. Props to Bogus though, that was an S-class TvP showing from him. Miffed that my favourite protoss lost but happy that Bogus' so sick. Also, action's cleanest game in a long, long time. Excellent control and sick management, dominated the game. He deserves more credit IMO.
On January 18 2012 23:29 Winechu wrote: Just watched all of the VODs. Monstrous performances from Action/Flash/P7GAB. Stats did pretty well too, it could've been a very different game if he could've fended off the first push. I think it was possible, but his execution wasn't good enough and he lost too much stuff to mines. Props to Bogus though, that was an S-class TvP showing from him. Miffed that my favourite protoss lost but happy that Bogus' so sick. Also, action's cleanest game in a long, long time. Excellent control and sick management, dominated the game. He deserves more credit IMO.
That control group of zergling attacking Last MNM and Action doing the muta dance at the same time was sick(made me think of Jaedong ) ...... I am going to go watch that vod again . Damn , If Mafia is able to bring his A game every time he plays , he will seriously make people think again and full filled the hype we kt fan's have been talking a lot a long time ago .
On January 18 2012 23:29 Winechu wrote: Just watched all of the VODs. Monstrous performances from Action/Flash/P7GAB. Stats did pretty well too, it could've been a very different game if he could've fended off the first push. I think it was possible, but his execution wasn't good enough and he lost too much stuff to mines. Props to Bogus though, that was an S-class TvP showing from him. Miffed that my favourite protoss lost but happy that Bogus' so sick. Also, action's cleanest game in a long, long time. Excellent control and sick management, dominated the game. He deserves more credit IMO.
That control group of zergling attacking Last MNM and Action doing the muta dance at the same time was sick(made me think of Jaedong ) ...... I am going to go watch that vod again . Damn , If Mafia is able to bring his A game every time he plays , he will seriously make people think again and full filled the hype we kt fan's have been talking a lot a long time ago .
I know I'll be hoping for that however unlikely that may be! C'mon Action, gotta be more consistent.
EDIT: Just read through the thread and saw that someone mentioned Wooki being 3-2, 2-2 against Zero/Baby/Bisu/Jangbi. I think that's pretty impressive given how inexperienced he is.
Last has to improve his tvz, hoped he could win to maintain his win streak, but still Action played like a real MafiaZerg, so greedy and so aggressive. Bogus is goood at tvp. Flash imba as usual.
It’s Action’s first interview of the season, and he felt as though he hasn’t been able to put in a good performance in a long time. Fortunately, he played well today. He wasn’t nervous about playing Last because he’s too used to failing (T/N: lol literal translation = habitual tragedy, how sad) so it’s actually less pressuring to face Last because of his good record. He’s embarrassed at being nicknamed the “defiler demon” but he’s getting used to it. He feels that even though he’s performed well today, it is in part due to Last’s inexperience in TvZ. He laments his complacency and bad luck earlier in the season, which led to his poor performances. He’s sad that roo retired because everyone in the KT Z line were great friends, so he’s trying to do his best to fulfill roo’s wishes. He also mentions that he was sent out on an unfavourable map for Z because it is unlikely that the other team will send out a Z too. Hence, even though it was unfavourable for vT and vP, he was relatively more comfortable in those match ups than his vZ, so he was sent on the map. Against CJ, he feels confident of being able to win against anybody, but would preferably not want to face a zerg. He explains that it’s not his confidence that is lacking, but he doesn’t like matches to end too soon. He’s spending Lunar New Year with friends in his hometown, so he hopes he can win 1 more match so that he would not need to go home in shame. He wishes everyone a happy lunar new year.
I really feel for Action, he must've endured a difficult period of time. Glad he's not lost confidence but rather, seems brimming with it.
Epic picture in the link, Stats and Flash labour weapons.
It’s Action’s first interview of the season, and he felt as though he hasn’t been able to put in a good performance in a long time. Fortunately, he played well today. He wasn’t nervous about playing Last because he’s too used to failing (T/N: lol literal translation = habitual tragedy, how sad) so it’s actually less pressuring to face Last because of his good record. He’s embarrassed at being nicknamed the “defiler demon” but he’s getting used to it. He feels that even though he’s performed well today, it is in part due to Last’s inexperience in TvZ. He laments his complacency and bad luck earlier in the season, which led to his poor performances. He’s sad that roo retired because everyone in the KT Z line were great friends, so he’s trying to do his best to fulfill roo’s wishes. He also mentions that he was sent out on an unfavourable map for Z because it is unlikely that the other team will send out a Z too. Hence, even though it was unfavourable for vT and vP, he was relatively more comfortable in those match ups than his vZ, so he was sent on the map. Against CJ, he feels confident of being able to win against anybody, but would preferably not want to face a zerg. He explains that it’s not his confidence that is lacking, but he doesn’t like matches to end too soon. He’s spending Lunar New Year with friends in his hometown, so he hopes he can win 1 more match so that he would not need to go home in shame. He wishes everyone a happy lunar new year.
I really feel for Action, he must've endured a difficult period of time. Glad he's not lost confidence but rather, seems brimming with it.
Epic picture in the link, Stats and Flash labour weapons.
Poor action T_T , I am glad he played really well today and winning last boosted his confidence a bit , here's hoping he will be able to carry on RoO wish and action win's that single game he is looking forward to . Thanks again for the summary.... ^^
lol at stats and flash being the only players to carry the whole team
It’s Action’s first interview of the season, and he felt as though he hasn’t been able to put in a good performance in a long time. Fortunately, he played well today. He wasn’t nervous about playing Last because he’s too used to failing (T/N: lol literal translation = habitual tragedy, how sad) so it’s actually less pressuring to face Last because of his good record. He’s embarrassed at being nicknamed the “defiler demon” but he’s getting used to it. He feels that even though he’s performed well today, it is in part due to Last’s inexperience in TvZ. He laments his complacency and bad luck earlier in the season, which led to his poor performances. He’s sad that roo retired because everyone in the KT Z line were great friends, so he’s trying to do his best to fulfill roo’s wishes. He also mentions that he was sent out on an unfavourable map for Z because it is unlikely that the other team will send out a Z too. Hence, even though it was unfavourable for vT and vP, he was relatively more comfortable in those match ups than his vZ, so he was sent on the map. Against CJ, he feels confident of being able to win against anybody, but would preferably not want to face a zerg. He explains that it’s not his confidence that is lacking, but he doesn’t like matches to end too soon. He’s spending Lunar New Year with friends in his hometown, so he hopes he can win 1 more match so that he would not need to go home in shame. He wishes everyone a happy lunar new year.
I really feel for Action, he must've endured a difficult period of time. Glad he's not lost confidence but rather, seems brimming with it.
Epic picture in the link, Stats and Flash labour weapons.
Thanks guys ruined the game for me. I'm gonna spend the entire time looking for and at the kakaru instead of the match =="
Who said you have to read comments?
It is also in the Recommended games. Edit: grammar. Today's games were excellent for a KT fan. I am looking forward to watching Sayle's rebroadcast. STX put up a good fight. Go BW!
1. WTF was up with the pregame pseudo-philosophy discussion on good and evil??? In a BW match no less. I didn't even get the feeling that you guys were entirely joking as well.
2. Bogus is the legit no.3 Terran right now behind Flash and Fantasy. Also the 3rd best TvP behind the aforesaid. I think TvP is a good indicator of current proficiency this season (which is kinda Protoss-heavy... and the Dragons say the maps are unfavorable, lol). Too bad for Light (lol).
3. Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Last vs Action: bad game from Last (useless game! by Last) and good game by action. Also it was nice mix: lurkers, defilers, plague, mass hatcheries, guardians, drops, ultras
Flash vs Dear: n/c
Bogus vs Stats: 7 vultures cancelled exps at 1-2'o clock. Why he didn't get exp at 12 or 11'o clock. This 7-8 vultures has f**ked him at the top of map, thats why it was 3v3 bases game, like a boss game by Bogus
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Fantasy>Bisu/Stork 100% but JD is better thatn Fanta
My S-Class list: T1 - Fanta, Bisu Stars - only SoulKey T8 - Jaedong, Baby CJ - Leta, Hydra, Movie STX - Calm, Bogus Khan - Stork and Jangbi KT - Flash, Stats ACE - no S-CLass
Flash seems unstoppable this season. With time to prepare, I seriously don't see anyone taking a game out of him. Time will tell, but I am expecting him to break his 12 win streak record very soon.
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
It's not even really true either. Stats looks better after his surgery IMO. If he can clean up that acne he'll actually be fairly handsome. So basically elagrion is mad that Stats doesn't look like a male model?
There's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking.
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
My S-Class list: T1 - Fanta, Bisu Stars - only SoulKey T8 - Jaedong, Baby CJ - Leta, Hydra, Movie STX - Calm, Bogus Khan - Stork and Jangbi KT - Flash, Stats ACE - no S-CLass
ZerO and Kal are not on your S-Class list? They both have higher winrates than Calm >:
P.S: Sad that Stats lost a game before achieving 60% overall winrate...
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
It's not even really true either. Stats looks better after his surgery IMO. If he can clean up that acne he'll actually be fairly handsome. So basically elagrion is mad that Stats doesn't look like a male model?
There's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking.
He probably expected Stats to have the same look of a supermodel and at the same time talented at starcraft . Really amazing thing's he asking for .
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote: 1. WTF was up with the pregame pseudo-philosophy discussion on good and evil??? In a BW match no less. I didn't even get the feeling that you guys were entirely joking as well.
2. Bogus is the legit no.3 Terran right now behind Flash and Fantasy. Also the 3rd best TvP behind the aforesaid. I think TvP is a good indicator of current proficiency this season (which is kinda Protoss-heavy... and the Dragons say the maps are unfavorable, lol). Too bad for Light (lol).
3. Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
I honestly like Stats' chances in TvP vs Fantasy more than Bogus. Bogus is so absolutely solid at every little thing in TvP that you have to get a leg up on him or you lose. Fantasy has an explicit style that dudes counter plenty (it's why he got knocked out in that all protoss + him group that one time).
Note T1 fans I'm not saying Fantasy is bad or even worse than Bogus, just that I think Stats matches up better against him.
Stats macro'd pretty badly in that game and shouldn't have expanded towards Bogus. I saw the results beforehand and kept wondering how could throw away an advantage that he got with the fast third, and then I saw the fourth right next to Bogus' third and basically facepalm'd.
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
It's not even really true either. Stats looks better after his surgery IMO. If he can clean up that acne he'll actually be fairly handsome. So basically elagrion is mad that Stats doesn't look like a male model?
There's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking.
He probably expected Stats to have the same look of a supermodel and at the same time talented at starcraft . Really amazing thing's he asking for .
ZerO and Kal are not on your S-Class list? They both have higher winrates than Calm >:
IMO Zero is weak player Im thought about Kal, but no he is no S-CLass player And Calm is classic of all Starleagues of course, every season nice results by calm at SL and MSL(was)
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
It's not even really true either. Stats looks better after his surgery IMO. If he can clean up that acne he'll actually be fairly handsome. So basically elagrion is mad that Stats doesn't look like a male model?
There's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking.
He probably expected Stats to have the same look of a supermodel and at the same time talented at starcraft . Really amazing thing's he asking for .
U guys are totally overreacting.
Nobody cares about Stats handsomeness, but your comment was douchy. Not a big deal, but that's a fact.
ZerO and Kal are not on your S-Class list? They both have higher winrates than Calm >:
IMO Zero is weak player Im thought about Kal, but no he is no S-CLass player And Calm is classic of all Starleagues of course, every season nice results by calm at SL and MSL(was)
-.- Zero beat Calm in the last league they played in (his worst mu vs calm's best), has a higher winrate and, imo, plays much more solidly than him. I'm not saying he's S-class, but he's definitely not a notch below Calm.
Zero beat Calm in the last league they played in (his worst mu vs calm's best), has a higher winrate and, imo, plays much more solidly than him. I'm not saying he's S-class, but he's definitely not a notch below Calm
yeah he had a nice zvz MSL, but in the finals of ABC Mart MSL, Flash showed him who he is (3-0) im not zero hater, no, but calm is wonderfull brainzerg, he must be better than zero
Calm is definitely better than zero. That is a fact.
Also I found that S class list earlier a little ambiguous. Baby S class? We all love him but he's not yet proven at S class. I thought S class was only for the elite of elites?
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Fantasy>Bisu/Stork 100% but JD is better thatn Fanta
My S-Class list: T1 - Fanta, Bisu Stars - only SoulKey T8 - Jaedong, Baby CJ - Leta, Hydra, Movie STX - Calm, Bogus Khan - Stork and Jangbi KT - Flash, Stats ACE - no S-CLass
The term "S-Class" will be used way too often. Please stop that guys. I think at least 50% of the names you wrote in your list are definitely not S-Class. S-Class is like the highest skilled players (and besides of Flash), the difference in skill between the names you wrote in your list is too big.
On January 18 2012 21:49 elagrion wrote: oh well, at least uglytoss Stats lost.
You're ugly.
Doesn't feel so great, huh? >:[
Well, he is, and I'm not. Also, he is very good at Starcraft, and I'm noob. Also, your nickname is TwoToneTerran.
Just, stating the obvious.
It's a stupid, pointless and rude thing to pop in the thread and say about a person. Being glad someone lost because they're ugly to you is so amazingly shallow it boggles my mind. Learn some manners.
It's not even really true either. Stats looks better after his surgery IMO. If he can clean up that acne he'll actually be fairly handsome. So basically elagrion is mad that Stats doesn't look like a male model?
There's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking.
He probably expected Stats to have the same look of a supermodel and at the same time talented at starcraft . Really amazing thing's he asking for .
U guys are totally overreacting.
Nah, calling out someone for being an ass for no reason is pretty acceptable.
Zero beat Calm in the last league they played in (his worst mu vs calm's best), has a higher winrate and, imo, plays much more solidly than him. I'm not saying he's S-class, but he's definitely not a notch below Calm
yeah he had a nice zvz MSL, but in the finals of ABC Mart MSL, Flash showed him who he is (3-0) im not zero hater, no, but calm is wonderfull brainzerg, he must be better than zero
Flash will 3-0 anyone and not give a fuck, though.
Zero beat Calm in the last league they played in (his worst mu vs calm's best), has a higher winrate and, imo, plays much more solidly than him. I'm not saying he's S-class, but he's definitely not a notch below Calm
yeah he had a nice zvz MSL, but in the finals of ABC Mart MSL, Flash showed him who he is (3-0) im not zero hater, no, but calm is wonderfull brainzerg, he must be better than zero
Flash also 3-0'd Hydra in the semi, yet you put him on the list. I wouldn't put Zero is S class, but putting Movie, Calm, Baby, Leta and the likes in there without any consideration to Zero and Effort is just slapping them in their faces. Why not name the list S and A class except players I don't like.
Nevermind, I just got that tingle when I get trolled really hard.
Flash will 3-0 anyone and not give a fuck, though.
lol no
The term "S-Class" will be used way too often. Please stop that guys. I think at least 50% of the names you wrote in your list are definitely not S-Class. S-Class is like the highest skilled players (and besides of Flash), the difference in skill between the names you wrote in your list is too big.
yeah, but its MY s-class list i know that bisu, baby, leta are not high skill players, but they can beat flash easy easy system trollface.jpg
The term "S-Class" will be used way too often. Please stop that guys. I think at least 50% of the names you wrote in your list are definitely not S-Class. S-Class is like the highest skilled players (and besides of Flash), the difference in skill between the names you wrote in your list is too big.
yeah, but its MY s-class list i know that bisu, baby, leta are not high skill players, but they can beat flash easy easy system trollface.jpg
On January 19 2012 06:43 zenMaster wrote: KT won again? *flips table* They don't need fucking Pman, why you no go to T8.
B/c they didn't want him. KT was the only team that contacted him. Mad respect for KT that they allowed the kid to continue his career in progaming even though they didn't really need another player.
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote: Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Fanta beat stork for the SL gold. Fanta is also better than Bisu, even SKT says Fanta is thier top player(tho this is long ago).
And with that, STX stood up, brushed off its shoulders, took a long gander at the world, and with a deep breath, the sun waving across the sky, began marching into the world once more with a smile.
Excellent!!! I hope I can extend my liquibet win-streak past 6!
I find it quite amazing at how Wooki keeps his cool under pressure and his decision making. Not S-Class yet, but he is clearly showing increasing potential in every game he's been fielded
man sets 2 and 4 were so lame. protoss losing because they 12nex is always such a pain to watch. and then set 4 was so dumb: "wookie expands first. trap does nothing. wookie has 20 supply lead in 5 minutes. wookie wins easily". if STX is going to keep sending people out that just lose that aren't last/bogus, at least play calm and mini more because they at least play fun games :\. admittedly dear's other games this season have been better, but trap is just not a fun guy to have around lol
set 1 was OK but last really got fucked by not scouting the fourth base. glad to see action finally winning again. bogus vs stats was a great match though. I really want to see bogus tested vs other top protoss players now.
Beautiful results to wake up to, except for Stats losing to Bogus. Nevertheless I am starting to become irked that teams are sacrificing their lesser players to Flash and just hoping to beat the rest of KT's roster. I always love watching Flash win but most of his games this season leave me unsatisfied. It used to be the greatest thing ever watching Flash struggle against meticulously prepared snipers but ultimately come through in the end thanks to his brilliant play. Nowadays Flash's opponents just die without putting up much resistance at all. Hopefully with KT's 2nd string starting to win games at a decent rate teams opposing teams will adjust their strategies and actually start putting some effort into taking down Flash.
On January 19 2012 10:44 red4ce wrote: Beautiful results to wake up to, except for Stats losing to Bogus. Nevertheless I am starting to become irked that teams are sacrificing their lesser players to Flash and just hoping to beat the rest of KT's roster. I always love watching Flash win but most of his games this season leave me unsatisfied. It used to be the greatest thing ever watching Flash struggle against meticulously prepared snipers but ultimately come through in the end thanks to his brilliant play. Nowadays Flash's opponents just die without putting up much resistance at all. Hopefully with KT's 2nd string starting to win games at a decent rate teams opposing teams will adjust their strategies and actually start putting some effort into taking down Flash.
Team 8 sent Jaedong and look how that turned out, the problem isnt that teams are preparing fodder, its possible that flash is making their snipers look like fodder, in the end its simply not good strategy to send your best players against flash, you're much better off going for a 3-1 win.
I think the lack of ace matches has a lot to do with it. Flash has always brought home the first win quite easily, it was in the ace match where he got to face the star player or the meticulously prepared sniper. This was because he was garunteed to be KT's ace and every other team knew that.
On January 19 2012 10:44 red4ce wrote: Beautiful results to wake up to, except for Stats losing to Bogus. Nevertheless I am starting to become irked that teams are sacrificing their lesser players to Flash and just hoping to beat the rest of KT's roster. I always love watching Flash win but most of his games this season leave me unsatisfied. It used to be the greatest thing ever watching Flash struggle against meticulously prepared snipers but ultimately come through in the end thanks to his brilliant play. Nowadays Flash's opponents just die without putting up much resistance at all. Hopefully with KT's 2nd string starting to win games at a decent rate teams opposing teams will adjust their strategies and actually start putting some effort into taking down Flash.
Team 8 sent Jaedong and look how that turned out, the problem isnt that teams are preparing fodder, its possible that flash is making their snipers look like fodder, in the end its simply not good strategy to send your best players against flash, you're much better off going for a 3-1 win.
Also, Dear almost certainly wasn't sent out with the intention to face Flash. Up until yesterday's match, Flash's map stats were as followed:
3 - Electric Circuit 2 - Ground Zero 2 - Jade
However during this match Flash was sent out on Sniper Ridge (for the first time), so its incredibly unlikely that STX could have predicted that.
On January 19 2012 11:24 J1.au wrote: I think the lack of ace matches has a lot to do with it. Flash has always brought home the first win quite easily, it was in the ace match where he got to face the star player or the meticulously prepared sniper. This was because he was garunteed to be KT's ace and every other team knew that.
Also because of the team depend on Flash so much to bring home the win , his hand had to pay for the price , luckily there is no more winner league for Flash to do any more damage to the other team .
I don't think teams are dodging Flash. He has been pretty well rotated through the maps. If you look at the pattern: Ground Zero Electric Circuit Jade Jade again Electric Circuit Electric Circuit again, breaking the pattern of ABCCBA Ground Zero back on pattern? Sniper Ridge oh wait, a curveball
Also, Terran are pretty well expected on GZ and Jade, but Electric Circuit has poor results for Terran, with Flash accounting for 3 of 5 non-mirror wins.
Flash isn't even always played in the first 3 sets, which shows a lot of confidence on the behalf of the KT coaches. Justified, perhaps, since they are the reigning PL champions. The only discernible "fact" is that Flash won't play on Outlier, which isn't a surprise because it's badly anti-T, hence why only 3 of 31 games have had a Terran.
Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.
Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.
Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.
Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.
Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote: Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.
Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.
Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.
Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.
Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
can't really fault jaedong, he's still performing better than any other zerg around. zerg is like the weak race this season - below 50% winrate against both T and P
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote: Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.
Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.
Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.
Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.
Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
I think the Power Rank discussion thread is over there.
On January 19 2012 14:32 Wockets wrote: Flash still undefeated wtfwtf!
nothing surprising really. didn't bisu got 10-0 in R1 last season? not diminishing flash's results or anything, but it's never really surprising to me any more when flash wins or is on like a 10+ winning streak. boy is too good
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote: 1. WTF was up with the pregame pseudo-philosophy discussion on good and evil??? In a BW match no less. I didn't even get the feeling that you guys were entirely joking as well.
2. Bogus is the legit no.3 Terran right now behind Flash and Fantasy. Also the 3rd best TvP behind the aforesaid. I think TvP is a good indicator of current proficiency this season (which is kinda Protoss-heavy... and the Dragons say the maps are unfavorable, lol). Too bad for Light (lol).
3. Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
I honestly like Stats' chances in TvP vs Fantasy more than Bogus. Bogus is so absolutely solid at every little thing in TvP that you have to get a leg up on him or you lose. Fantasy has an explicit style that dudes counter plenty (it's why he got knocked out in that all protoss + him group that one time).
Note T1 fans I'm not saying Fantasy is bad or even worse than Bogus, just that I think Stats matches up better against him.
I agree with you, but not completely. In any one-off game Bogus definitely looks better when he plays solid-standard. Not a lot of shenanigans, just great control overall, great vulture micro, and great decisions. It's not so much textbook TvP as it is taking advantage of Terran's defensive strength.
However, in multi-game series play, Fantasy is a different animal. He's extremely unpredictable, goes for those off-beat timings that people have a hard time predicting, has fantastic vulture usage, and is ruthless. Which is why if the ace match still existed, I'm still picking Fantasy ahead of Bogus.
So as against the super-solid play of Stats, Fantasy can easily be blocked/falter, whereas Bogus plays like the Stats of Terrans (really good standard/semi-standard play - going for the late game). In a series vs Stats, however, I'd still pick Fantasy to have the better chance against him. In a way I still agree with you, so I hope you don't mind the qualification.
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Fantasy>Bisu/Stork 100% but JD is better thatn Fanta
My S-Class list: T1 - Fanta, Bisu Stars - only SoulKey T8 - Jaedong, Baby CJ - Leta, Hydra, Movie STX - Calm, Bogus Khan - Stork and Jangbi KT - Flash, Stats ACE - no S-CLass
Will just have to say that there are so many people that don't belong on that list, it boggles my mind. "S-Class" is being thrown around too loosely. Maybe people don't respect the term "A-Class" enough (which I argue applies to the 99%, in varying degrees like Tier 1 A-Class who are usually the team aces, Tier 2, etc). Anyway, I'm guessing you're just trolling anyway.
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote: Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.
Fanta beat stork for the SL gold. Fanta is also better than Bisu, even SKT says Fanta is thier top player(tho this is long ago).
That's a good case, but a bit weakened because of last proleague season. And it's also a bit understandable given that, before Jangbi's LOTF OSL, Protoss hadn't won for more than 2 years. Still, I'm not a complete Bisu apologist and do realize that he's been underperforming in the individuals for quite some time (whereas Fantasy shines). That, however, does not disprove the TBLS-level of consistent S-Class play of Bisu. It just affirms that Fantasy's been knocking on the door of the 4 pillars for the past 2 years.
On January 19 2012 13:41 soujiro_ wrote: poor last losing his streak to action must feels so bad great game from bogus, i love how he has stats number too bad this couldnt get to game 5 tt
That was more to actions credit than last's discredit
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote: Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.
Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.
Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.
Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.
Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
can't really fault jaedong, he's still performing better than any other zerg around. zerg is like the weak race this season - below 50% winrate against both T and P
Effort is 6-2, Crazy Hydra is 4-2, Soulkey is 6-3. All doing better than JDs 5-5
On January 20 2012 06:51 Reyis wrote: suck that stats. most overrated player ever..
How is he overrated? I remember they used to have ranks on players' performances after the games. Stats scored like S ranks twice in a roll. He's consistent. His game sense have been improving quite a lot (probably from practicing with Flash). Furthermore, his PvP style is just amazing (ELO vP is peaking btw).
On January 20 2012 06:51 Reyis wrote: suck that stats. most overrated player ever..
lol really? i would contend that stats is the most underrated player ever. He's probably THE best protoss at the moment. and yes i didn't forget about your beloved bisu..
On January 19 2012 14:32 Wockets wrote: Flash still undefeated wtfwtf!
nothing surprising really. didn't bisu got 10-0 in R1 last season? not diminishing flash's results or anything, but it's never really surprising to me any more when flash wins or is on like a 10+ winning streak. boyGOD is too good
Watch Your language, young man! The way he did achive his no-lose record so far is more amazing then the record itslef. He is like 2 classes higher than anyone else now, nobody can even touch him. The players that go against Flash do not wish for win, they just want to lose with some dignity. Sadly, especially Zergs aren't able to achieve that lately.
On January 19 2012 14:32 Wockets wrote: Flash still undefeated wtfwtf!
nothing surprising really. didn't bisu got 10-0 in R1 last season? not diminishing flash's results or anything, but it's never really surprising to me any more when flash wins or is on like a 10+ winning streak. boyGOD is too good
The striking thing for me with Flash this season is that nobody seems to have a slight chance against him. Everybody was excited when he played Jaedong and he roflstomped him like a complete noob. With Light, I thought that finally we would see some decent TvT, but Light didn't even make it to the late game.
For Jaedong, like for Light, or Dear, or whoever played Flash this season, it seems that they didn't just lose: they got crushed at the first occasion, and in every case, you would think that had they survive a little longer, they would have had many other opportunity to get crushed later.
I remember Bisu had some ridiculous streak, but at least he had some people showing good fight against him.
Which is too bad, because Flash comebacks are a lot of fun to watch.
It's like the opponent is thinking "Oh shit, I'm beating Flash, I'm beating Flash, is this really happening? Okay, calm down, oh man I'm beating Flash I - oh - ohhhhhh, nevermind, I just died"
On January 20 2012 20:38 Moridin wrote: If only some TV show gathers Flash, Jangby and Soulkey to battle it out in a best of 5 that would make me smile for a week
Reading your comment i had to question myself, are Progamers from ProTeams allowed to do showmatches?
So for example, if someone wants to hold a showmatch between x and y for money like 5k? Is it restricted in any way or do they "just" need the okay from their team?
On January 20 2012 21:52 okum wrote: Flash's streak is nice, but it does suffer from lack of quality opponents.
And sadly this will probably continue , cause i bet most of team will do their lineups to avoid Flash with their aces and throw vs him sacrifical lamb with some snipe build , damn u no ace match system
On January 21 2012 10:46 Taekwon wrote: I keep coming back to this... Banner is one reason but fack, we really didn't have to drop the ball this matchup.
This aint a bad loss. The curveball map selection from Last really hurt us, but you know what I though Dear played pretty good considering the setbacks and CLEAR skill gap. Plus Bogus had a dominant win against another top P, which is promising. Last's game was really disappointing but oh well, he was due for a loss. We'll be coming back hard after the break for late round push. Plus, there's still half the season left!
I think they did this system not to give some team an advantage based on depth/length of lineup... bo5 ace - advantage to KT Rolster, bo7 no ace - advantage to CJ Entus and SKT... bo7 ace advantage to SKT and T8. And all of them severely disadvantage ACE and STX. So this was basically the only option (bo5 no ace) to make all matches unpredictable (otherwise, honestly, would ACE ever have a chance to 3-2 (3-2!!!) KT Rolster?)
On January 21 2012 20:27 _Quasar_ wrote: I think they did this system not to give some team an advantage based on depth/length of lineup... bo5 ace - advantage to KT Rolster, bo7 no ace - advantage to CJ Entus and SKT... bo7 ace advantage to SKT and T8. And all of them severely disadvantage ACE and STX. So this was basically the only option (bo5 no ace) to make all matches unpredictable (otherwise, honestly, would ACE ever have a chance to 3-2 (3-2!!!) KT Rolster?)
Usually KT is pretty bad against ACE, just one of many examples
^^ But I understand your point. I think the new format is more interesting too. Unfortunately it means less games, but it is better than more games and less different winners.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyHeader.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyLineups.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0K4sD.png)
STX SouL VS ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/2.png){kind=icon}
KT Rolster 
Last «Jade » 
Action
Dear «Sniper Ridge » ![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyHype.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/BogusVulture3.png)
![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyResults.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyRecommended.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/ryandman768/RockyStreams.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/hipster-sunglasses-2.jpg)
God will smite you for your blasphemy
but at 10-11 season he was good at TvT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NQM0V.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.plu.cn/d/file/sc/note/2012-01-18/911aaf6310c42034baafa44f6b040488.jpg)
