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[SPL] STX Soul VS KT Rolster - Page 49

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
January 19 2012 02:54 GMT
#961
I don't think teams are dodging Flash. He has been pretty well rotated through the maps. If you look at the pattern:
Ground Zero
Electric Circuit
Jade
Jade again
Electric Circuit
Electric Circuit again, breaking the pattern of ABCCBA
Ground Zero back on pattern?
Sniper Ridge oh wait, a curveball

Also, Terran are pretty well expected on GZ and Jade, but Electric Circuit has poor results for Terran, with Flash accounting for 3 of 5 non-mirror wins.

Flash isn't even always played in the first 3 sets, which shows a lot of confidence on the behalf of the KT coaches. Justified, perhaps, since they are the reigning PL champions. The only discernible "fact" is that Flash won't play on Outlier, which isn't a surprise because it's badly anti-T, hence why only 3 of 31 games have had a Terran.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
shaftofpleasure
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Korea (North)1375 Posts
January 19 2012 04:04 GMT
#962
I still think Fantasy, right now, is better than Bogus, Bisu, Stork, Jaedong.

He's practically the top 2.
It's either the holes of my nose are getting smaller or my fingers are getting bigger. /// Always Rooting for the Underdog. Hyuk/Sin/Jaehoon/Juni/Hyvva/Hoejja/Canata //// Hiding in thread somewhere where BW is still in it's pure form here on TL.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
January 19 2012 04:26 GMT
#963
Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.

Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.

Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.

Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.

Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
January 19 2012 04:37 GMT
#964
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote:
Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.

Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.

Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.

Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.

Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.


can't really fault jaedong, he's still performing better than any other zerg around. zerg is like the weak race this season - below 50% winrate against both T and P
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
January 19 2012 04:41 GMT
#965
poor last losing his streak to action must feels so bad
great game from bogus, i love how he has stats number
too bad this couldnt get to game 5 tt

ace hwaiting!!
mnesthes
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
5433 Posts
January 19 2012 04:50 GMT
#966
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote:
Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.

Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.

Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.

Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.

Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.
I think the Power Rank discussion thread is over there.
<+LighTofHeaveN> Ppl call this "Indigo Children"
Wockets
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong467 Posts
January 19 2012 05:32 GMT
#967
Flash still undefeated wtfwtf!
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
January 19 2012 05:41 GMT
#968
On January 19 2012 14:32 Wockets wrote:
Flash still undefeated wtfwtf!


nothing surprising really. didn't bisu got 10-0 in R1 last season? not diminishing flash's results or anything, but it's never really surprising to me any more when flash wins or is on like a 10+ winning streak. boy is too good
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 07:19:33
January 19 2012 07:13 GMT
#969
On January 19 2012 02:25 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote:
1. WTF was up with the pregame pseudo-philosophy discussion on good and evil??? In a BW match no less. I didn't even get the feeling that you guys were entirely joking as well.

2. Bogus is the legit no.3 Terran right now behind Flash and Fantasy. Also the 3rd best TvP behind the aforesaid. I think TvP is a good indicator of current proficiency this season (which is kinda Protoss-heavy... and the Dragons say the maps are unfavorable, lol). Too bad for Light (lol).

3. Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.


I honestly like Stats' chances in TvP vs Fantasy more than Bogus. Bogus is so absolutely solid at every little thing in TvP that you have to get a leg up on him or you lose. Fantasy has an explicit style that dudes counter plenty (it's why he got knocked out in that all protoss + him group that one time).

Note T1 fans I'm not saying Fantasy is bad or even worse than Bogus, just that I think Stats matches up better against him.


I agree with you, but not completely. In any one-off game Bogus definitely looks better when he plays solid-standard. Not a lot of shenanigans, just great control overall, great vulture micro, and great decisions. It's not so much textbook TvP as it is taking advantage of Terran's defensive strength.

However, in multi-game series play, Fantasy is a different animal. He's extremely unpredictable, goes for those off-beat timings that people have a hard time predicting, has fantastic vulture usage, and is ruthless. Which is why if the ace match still existed, I'm still picking Fantasy ahead of Bogus.

So as against the super-solid play of Stats, Fantasy can easily be blocked/falter, whereas Bogus plays like the Stats of Terrans (really good standard/semi-standard play - going for the late game). In a series vs Stats, however, I'd still pick Fantasy to have the better chance against him. In a way I still agree with you, so I hope you don't mind the qualification.


On January 19 2012 02:13 WTFTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.

Fantasy>Bisu/Stork 100% but JD is better thatn Fanta

My S-Class list:
T1 - Fanta, Bisu
Stars - only SoulKey
T8 - Jaedong, Baby
CJ - Leta, Hydra, Movie
STX - Calm, Bogus
Khan - Stork and Jangbi
KT - Flash, Stats
ACE - no S-CLass


Will just have to say that there are so many people that don't belong on that list, it boggles my mind. "S-Class" is being thrown around too loosely. Maybe people don't respect the term "A-Class" enough (which I argue applies to the 99%, in varying degrees like Tier 1 A-Class who are usually the team aces, Tier 2, etc). Anyway, I'm guessing you're just trolling anyway.


On January 19 2012 09:00 TrainSamurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 02:01 Caladbolg wrote:
Fantasy > Bisu/JD/Stork? What?!? Look, recent results give him 1 SL gold and silver, but JD's been in more finals, and the other two have faced tougher competition (and play the more fragile series race). I don't think it's very realistic to say that only Flash is better than Fantasy. The Terrorist is amazing, no doubt, and is as S-Class as can be without being TBLS, but c'mon.



Fanta beat stork for the SL gold. Fanta is also better than Bisu, even SKT says Fanta is thier top player(tho this is long ago).


That's a good case, but a bit weakened because of last proleague season. And it's also a bit understandable given that, before Jangbi's LOTF OSL, Protoss hadn't won for more than 2 years. Still, I'm not a complete Bisu apologist and do realize that he's been underperforming in the individuals for quite some time (whereas Fantasy shines). That, however, does not disprove the TBLS-level of consistent S-Class play of Bisu. It just affirms that Fantasy's been knocking on the door of the 4 pillars for the past 2 years.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
January 19 2012 11:29 GMT
#970
On January 19 2012 13:41 soujiro_ wrote:
poor last losing his streak to action must feels so bad
great game from bogus, i love how he has stats number
too bad this couldnt get to game 5 tt


That was more to actions credit than last's discredit

he looked really sharp
In the woods, there lurks..
HopLight
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden999 Posts
January 19 2012 12:22 GMT
#971
On January 19 2012 13:37 saltywet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 13:26 Mortality wrote:
Fantasy is the #2. OSL gold - OSL silver, #3 ELO (behind Flash and Bisu), #4 KeSPA (behind Flash, Jangbi and Hydra). 64% wins in past 12 monhs, 80% wins in past 6 months, #2 on the scoreboard since the start of the season.

Bogus was definitely the breakout star of 2011 and in 2012 he's been going a long way to prove himself against brutal opposition, but he's not "there" yet -- in particular, Fantasy's current ELO ratings are higher than Bogus's peaks in every category and he's more proven than Bogus across the board. That is not an insult against Bogus; it is fact: he has more to prove. But, I expect great things from Bogus in the future.

Bisu has not made it past Ro16 in individual league in almost two and a half years. Last season Bisu stayed near the top with his dominant PL showing, but this season he is showing holes.

Stork has completely fallen off ever since Fantasy trashed him in the OSL finals. In the past 12 months, Stork has gone 38-38, exactly 50% wins. Frankly, Stork has a lot to prove this season.

Jaedong has been slipping for a while. He's still Jaedong and I think it's easy to underrate him right now based on his record so far this season of 5-5, but again, Fantasy is solidly outperforming him right now.


can't really fault jaedong, he's still performing better than any other zerg around. zerg is like the weak race this season - below 50% winrate against both T and P


Effort is 6-2, Crazy Hydra is 4-2, Soulkey is 6-3. All doing better than JDs 5-5
WTFTerran
Profile Joined November 2011
Russian Federation286 Posts
January 19 2012 15:32 GMT
#972
Stats- new future of protoss
Bogus- new future of terrans
Soulkey- new future of zergs
Bogus, MKP, Bomber FTW!
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
January 19 2012 17:29 GMT
#973
Perfectman- perfectman of protoss
first we make expand, then we defense it.
Reyis
Profile Joined August 2009
Pitcairn287 Posts
January 19 2012 21:51 GMT
#974
suck that stats. most overrated player ever..
기적의 혁명가 김택용 화이팅~!!
horusray
Profile Joined November 2009
34 Posts
January 19 2012 22:11 GMT
#975
On January 20 2012 06:51 Reyis wrote:
suck that stats. most overrated player ever..

How is he overrated? I remember they used to have ranks on players' performances after the games. Stats scored like S ranks twice in a roll. He's consistent. His game sense have been improving quite a lot (probably from practicing with Flash). Furthermore, his PvP style is just amazing (ELO vP is peaking btw).
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
January 19 2012 22:35 GMT
#976
Why do so many people seem to hate Stats? Or is it just SKT fans?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 23:43:06
January 19 2012 23:15 GMT
#977
On January 20 2012 07:35 GolemMadness wrote:
Why do so many people seem to hate Stats? Or is it just SKT fans?

I do contend that it should be EXTREMELY obvious why.
+ Show Spoiler +
PS: Being butthurt about one event or other is not the reason.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1285 Posts
January 19 2012 23:39 GMT
#978
Are we embracing the memory of when Stats all-killed SKT?

Stats is a very consistent PL player, I view him as the Protoss of (T)Sea. You simply cannot deny that fact.
sup
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 01:29:38
January 20 2012 01:29 GMT
#979
On January 20 2012 07:35 GolemMadness wrote:
Why do so many people seem to hate Stats? Or is it just SKT fans?


you nailed it. its just SKT fans as far as i can see
mnesthes
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
5433 Posts
January 20 2012 04:37 GMT
#980
On January 20 2012 06:51 Reyis wrote:
suck that stats. most overrated player ever..
Yeah overrated... as in having a 3-0 record against last SPL's player with most wins
<+LighTofHeaveN> Ppl call this "Indigo Children"
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