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On December 12 2011 03:25 Grackaroni wrote:
The quote where you vote for BByte once again connects with my earlier view. You're in favor of jumping on the BByte bandwagon because even though he's not your best scum read it's better than a last second surprise, OK that's fine but then you choose not to vote for Jaybrundage, who you do admit is your best scum read, and the only explanation you've given us so far is you're wifom defense of being accused of jumping on a bandwagon.
I've explained this a few times already. I saw the Jay lynch as 100% confirmed and wanted to make a point about the way town was going. On Day 1 there was a chance of mafia jumping on one of the other cases and it wouldn't have been as suspicious because some people (EB and myself at least) argued against lynching the lurker. On Day 2, however, there was no argument, so mafia didn't have the option of doing a last minute switch without revealing their whole team.
On December 12 2011 03:25 Grackaroni wrote:
Why are you afraid of being called out for bandwagoning on Jay but not on BByte?
Dude, how many times have I made the point that I fought vigurously against the Bbyte lynch? No one can accuse me of bandwagoning on Bbyte.
The fact of the matter is that you still haven't explained why you didn't vote for JB, all you've given us so far is the WIFOM "I would have been accused of voting JB as bandwagoning or I would have been accused of not voting scum"
You've shown that you're willing to vote for bandwagons on people you're not sure are mafia but you won't for people you do think are mafia. You're defense is weak, why did you not vote your greatest scum read?
I did explain why I kept my vote on EY. Please read my filter before making statements such as this one. Here:
On December 09 2011 05:10 xtfftc wrote:
Looking at him as an individual, he is one of the three scummiest (along with EY and xsk), so I consider him more likely to be mafia than not. Looking at him in the context of the potential mafia teams I see, I find his team (Jay, BKE, and one of xsk/EY) more likely than the alternative (xsk/EY/Adam).
On December 09 2011 05:12 Blazinghand wrote:
I see. So you think he's solidly scummy, and you have some potential teams you think he is a part of. However, you consider ey215 to be scummier, which is why your vote is on ey215. Is this an accurate representation of your views?
On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
This was before the deadline. You posted two hours after me and said nothing about my vote. If it was such a concern, you should have pointed it out at the time.
And you really have to start looking at the context. It's not just what someone said, it's the moment they said it and what others had posted prior to that. In this case BH asks me:
"However, you consider ey215 to be scummier, which is why your vote is on ey215. Is this an accurate representation of your views?"
I reply:
"Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits"
and now you ask me:
"You're defense is weak, why did you not vote your greatest scum read?"
I did end up voting for my greatest scum read. I would have switched to Jay if I thought there was a chance of mafia manipulating the Day 2 vote but it was so obvious that they were bussing him (and who could blame them, considering his play?) that this wasn't necessary.
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Post too long!
We're sorry, but the post you're trying to make is over 100000 characters long. No one wants to read that much text! If you think you have a valid reason for wanting to make a post this big, bring this issue up in the Website Feedback forum. (Note: if you're doing a copy/paste from somewhere else, just summarize and link to the original source.)
Meh.
Okay, PART 1:
First of - the formatting is kind of fucked and I have already spent way too much time on this. I think I've managed to make it readable though.
Secondly, this is very very long, so I've decided to post all the quotes on their own. My findings will follow soon.
Also, I haven't included things such as the way Veli pusheed BKE a lot early Day 1 or BH's "LURKERLURKERLURKER" bit because they didn't actually express opinions. It was more of a general pressure that could have been either town or mafia. I haven't included dead players in this either; it took me quite some time anyway. I have, however, included even one liners because they can be a good indicator of how people's opinions change with time.
So, here goes. Open the spoiler at your own risk.
+ Show Spoiler +Tunkeg was the first to properly analyse BKE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=10#197+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 22:41 Tunkeg wrote:In the spoiler below are all the post made by you BroodKingEXE, a total of 6. My own comments below in bold. I know it is early in the game and that some filler post will be made. But for both the towns sake and your own sake you need to start making more usefull posts. I want everyone to be more involved and instead of pressuring you I'll throw you a bone: Tell me your opinion on Velinath and Blazinghand's play, tell me what allignement you think they have, tell me why their play is beneficial to the town or not. + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? While not completely agreeing to your point, I think this is a ok first post. You come in and start discussing the policy lynch. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot This one is what I consider a filler post. A post with no meaning really.On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
Well I think that Lynching any inconsistent comments is definitely a good idea. We need to be sure that any information we are getting is consistent and to keep the amount of strategies that the mob could be using low. As for the lurkers I agree that when in doubt we should vote for the lurkers. The information that they have could be useful or they could just be neglecting to play the game, which means they should not be playing at all. This is back on-topic, and somewhat usefull. Lynching people who clearly do scumslips I agree upon. Not people changing their minds though.On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. Still on topic, you answer the question Velinath gives you. On December 04 2011 15:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Blazinghand,
As long as the mob goes down you can do whatever you have to. A useless postOn December 04 2011 15:15 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay is right that i am new. A more useless post  Not to sure what to make out of it though. Calls him out for all the filler but seems to encourage him to post more? More from Tunkeg: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=11#203+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
BroodKingEXE Neutral, leaning scum. He is posting far to little, but I think it is because he is new. Hopefully if more people challange him with direct questions it will be easier to get a read on him. He is the fourth scummiest though. Velinath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=12#226On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:
BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. Velinath again http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=14#269On December 05 2011 08:53 Velinath wrote:The one thing that struck me over the last few pages is that BKEXE's posting style changed a lot between last night's posts and his post today. I don't know if it's just a time-of-day thing or what, but when a post tone changes that much, it tells me either A) it's done with coach input or B) it's a collaborative post from the mafia. Consider this: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? On December 05 2011 07:06 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For all of you who are getting a bad read on me, I want to confirm that I am a newbie. While I respect that Blazinghand has been pusing to prevent lurkers my reponses were obivouisly to defend myself. I feel that it is still a strategy that will work to get reads on the mafia, even if it has put me in the red. In the early stages of the game I feel that there is no way I would be able to get any proper reads as a newbie, but right now I am leaning to:
Mafia:
Adam - his critism of Blazinghand's style comes right after a compliment showing that he is defininetly trying to kiss up to him.
Hassy - he also critized Blazinghand's style in that he accuses him of targeting people early. His votes were clearly for getting people to talk, not at all to decide who to lynch.
Townies:
Blazing - has been contributing to the discussion and trying to get others to talk.
Velinath - I am kind of borderline on this as he has been contributing, but he seems to be following Blazing as opposed to creating comments of his own.
Turnkeg - I think he has been pressuring a little, trying to get a read,but I will go for townie.
Grackoroni - I will put him here because in one of his comments he left his own name on Turneg's read list and did not comment. I feel like this would have been something that he could have used to push his case.
As for the rest I feel like I have not got enough infomation. I am going to be off for the next few hours as I have a project due, but I will be sure to take a break to put my vote in.
It feels way different to me, anyway. For now it seems suspicious to me - I'll wait to hear more before I put my vote in, but for now it feels like scum. Hassy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=14#278On December 05 2011 09:24 Hassybaby wrote:
And people have posted since I last saw....
Veli, yeah I think I went over-defensive there. I misinterpreted Tunkeg's posts, and that's my bad. The post about BKEXE is a good catch. I'd again like to see what he says about that.
Meanwhile, for lack of a better vote right now, I'll be voting on BK. That is totally based on Veli's point, as I don't see strong cases against tohers right now. So odds are I'll change the vote tomorrow, especially if BK makes a good point.
##BroodKingEXE
Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=15#295On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=15#298On December 05 2011 10:09 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Thanks for the post there. I still think it's WIFOM, but now there's something else that strikes me as strange. You haven't provided any reasoning at all for your vote, unless you're relying on your analysis post earlier. If you could go over why you voted for Adam (assuming there's more to it than just bandwagoning), please do. Adam's definitely my second choice for scum, but you haven't given me enough reason to stop suspecting you yet. My vote stands as listed. Hassy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=15#296On December 05 2011 09:59 Hassybaby wrote:
I have to run, because I have work in the morning. One win though, is that I can follow the thread at work easily, since I don't do much during the day :D
@BKEXE, I can see why your posts were rushed and defensive. But since coming back, you've WIFOMed as well as bandwagoned on Adam's vote. This doesn't feel town-like to me right now, so I'd quite like to see you address your vote, as well as a better reasoning behind your initial 2 posts. Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=16#303On December 05 2011 10:28 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =). Thanks, that's enough justification for me. I appreciate the explanation, and what jaybrundage said goes right along with that. ##Unvote: BroodKingEXE Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=16#312On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. As to who I'm voting for, I'm going to be tossing a ##Vote: Adam4167because he's the best available candidate of our current suspects. While I'm still not entirely sold on BKEXE and am certainly not sold on Hassybaby, both have contributed more than Adam to the thread, especially now that BKEXE has explained why he voted. I may change this later because I haven't had time to re-filter everyone, but for now I'll put my vote here. xsk http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=17#338On December 05 2011 11:49 xsksc wrote:
BroodKingEXE
Town lurker/Maybe Scum
A lot of one liners and a list. Really, not a lot to go on with this guy either -_-
Possible candidate for a lurker-lynch, if we go down that path. (there were a lot of similar posts earlier in the game but they were before BKE had provided any actual thoughts, so I didn't include most of them) Adam http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=19#367On December 05 2011 15:31 Adam4167 wrote:BroodKingEXE + Show Spoiler +BroodKingEXE is suspicious to say the least. He posts up a one-line analysis on half of the players present, not very much effort put in at all. Then 2 hours later, he fires a vote in my direction with no explanation given. At all ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12592641). After being pressed a little he gives his thoughts on my larger post aimed at BH’s aggressive style. He takes issue with the fact that I apparently miscounted the number of votes BH has put out. BH did in fact only vote 4 times but the 2nd vote was a correction on a misspelling of the 1st vote. Honestly put, this is a piss-weak reason for me to earn his vote. He also takes issue with my lack of identifying a key player. I stated in the very post he quoted that BH was just flinging his vote in any direction and I felt they had no weight, why would I then go ahead and identify him, as a key player if I thought his vote was weightless? ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12593121) xtf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=19#372On December 05 2011 17:59 xtfftc wrote:
I'm on my phone at lunch, so I'll be brief for now. I think that Bke is the easy lynch at the momenand Ipm glad we have bettee targets now. Byte is my top lurker and he'd make an okay lynch if we end up looking at the lurkers. Xskc looks a bit beteer but he still hasn't lived up to his early play.
I'll make sure not to throw away my votw for an unlikely candidate by voting for someone who wont get lynched like I did in xlvii and I encourage everyone to do the sa,e. Also, remember that last minute changes tend to help mafia. Out of the two best candidates I find Adam's dwfence much better (he is at least giving usomethimg to analyse), so I'll probably go for BE. xtf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=23#456On December 06 2011 03:06 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:46 xsksc wrote:
xtfftc and blazing, I'd like your thoughts on Tunkeg if you have a chance soon, thanks. Tunkeg and Blazinghand are my town reads I am most comfortable with. BSE as well, I just can't imagine him being mafia. I am also pretty sure about EB being town now. However, his play screams "smurf", and that scares me. Blazinghand http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=23#458On December 06 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:
Alright guys, So, I have a couple of minor scum reads: Adam4167, BKEXE, and JB. These are all very mild-- I'm not sure enough to cast votes at this moment on these guys, but if it came down to it, I'd vote for one of them. Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=25#487On December 06 2011 06:21 Velinath wrote:
...
--Hops on my early vote for BKEXE without significant reasoning. (BKEXE is still on my radar, though - he's been crazy quiet recently and only seems to come out to defend himself rather than providing serious analysis) BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=29#572On December 07 2011 04:29 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:27 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff. BTW I think you personally BKEXE should post your stuff just because I feel like your performance so far has been mildly underwhelming. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=29#575http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=29#577http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#584(nothing of value in these two if you ask me but technically they still count as an opinion of BKE I guess)
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PART 2
+ Show Spoiler +Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=38#758Spoilered for being enourmous + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 11:53 Velinath wrote:You poor souls.My proposed scumteam: Hassybaby/Bluelightz, BroodKingEXE, jaybrundageBKEXE:I'm hoping to get my other two cases up by the end of Day 2, but it's kind of dependent on some stuff. Currently working on a term paper that's eating my life.My premise here is that BKEXE has consistently generated content-low posts with a few key missteps that have led me to conclude that he is scum. I've gone over his filter again and don't see anything that supports another conclusion. His first three or four posts are all composed of filler and inconsistency: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? Two obvious points. We should not be lynching over misspeech (as opposed to lying) - and we need to make a majority decision (self-apparent from how the game works). Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Not really much to say here. Time zones might be a problem, but he completely dodges the question I asked him about policy right after his first post. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
Well I think that Lynching any inconsistent comments is definitely a good idea. We need to be sure that any information we are getting is consistent and to keep the amount of strategies that the mob could be using low. As for the lurkers I agree that when in doubt we should vote for the lurkers. The information that they have could be useful or they could just be neglecting to play the game, which means they should not be playing at all. After a little more prodding, he says this. This is, again, pretty self evident, but I find it interesting that he says "lynching any inconsistent comments is a good idea" here, and "we should make sure people did not mispeak" earlier. Two different things - and the second is far more beneficial to scum. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I asked him which one he meant and he came back with this...which doesn't make any sense to me, STILL. (skipping 2 worthless filler posts, one of which is just a confirmation that Jay is soft-defending him for being new)Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 07:06 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For all of you who are getting a bad read on me, I want to confirm that I am a newbie. While I respect that Blazinghand has been pusing to prevent lurkers my reponses were obivouisly to defend myself. I feel that it is still a strategy that will work to get reads on the mafia, even if it has put me in the red. In the early stages of the game I feel that there is no way I would be able to get any proper reads as a newbie, but right now I am leaning to:
Mafia:
Adam - his critism of Blazinghand's style comes right after a compliment showing that he is defininetly trying to kiss up to him.
Hassy - he also critized Blazinghand's style in that he accuses him of targeting people early. His votes were clearly for getting people to talk, not at all to decide who to lynch.
Townies:
Blazing - has been contributing to the discussion and trying to get others to talk.
Velinath - I am kind of borderline on this as he has been contributing, but he seems to be following Blazing as opposed to creating comments of his own.
Turnkeg - I think he has been pressuring a little, trying to get a read,but I will go for townie.
Grackoroni - I will put him here because in one of his comments he left his own name on Turneg's read list and did not comment. I feel like this would have been something that he could have used to push his case.
As for the rest I feel like I have not got enough infomation. I am going to be off for the next few hours as I have a project due, but I will be sure to take a break to put my vote in.
"I'm a newbie and here are some of my reads. And I'm a newbie." Hammer that point home, BKEXE! Plus this post sounds way different in tone than his previous ones. NOW, THAT SAID: this could be because he took some time to think about this one, so I won't read too much into that point. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? "blah blah WIFOM blah blah I'm a newbie, also more WIFOM" (Skipping two filler posts one of which is an EMPTY VOTE WITH NO REASONING). Also, at this point I'd like to note that he still hasn't put in too much input on anyone else's reads or anything to that nature.Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. "I'm a newbie! Again!" We get it...but I don't buy the reasoning. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =). Alright, some reasoning. Unfortunately, I feel like that first red sentence (which is BKEXE's insertion into the paragraph, explaining reasoning) is just straight up bad - and the second one isn't much better. The first - well, I mean...it's just one vote, BH was still the most active voter, I don't see a problem here. Adam said his piece and it's not really taken away from by a difference of one vote, when BH had already voted so many times. The second, BKEXE misread and thought that Adam meant that BH wasn't an active town figure when Adam was actually talking about xkskc. Ends up being shaky reasoning. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information? More misinterpretation that only serves to cast false (by the reasoning he uses, anyway) aspersions on another player. He notes that he was wrong in the next couple posts after he gets called out on it. Next post is really long and I don't feel like quoting it, so: reiteration of the same incorrect reasoning on Adam from a few posts ago, with some kind of weird stuff afterwards about how being drunk or sober affects...something. Next post after that is another filler post.Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. "I have reasoning, but let's not talk about things during the night post." Don't suppress conversation during night, if you die with your reasoning, you can't tell people what you think. (yes, this means that I was slightly suspicious of BH for trying to suppress night talk). Next post is another erads post. It's better than the last one, but he leaves out two people. TWO people. There are three mafia. Maybe a slip, maybe not, who knows? If it is, he left out Tunkeg and jaybrundage. Tunkeg's not one of my scumreads right now, but jay sure as hell is.A couple posts about bandwagons, posting the two reads he forgot about, etc. He says bandwagons are a bad idea. I disagree due to scum being more able to influence more split votes.Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 00:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:FUCK!!I just realized that we could have figured out EB was a townie from this post, saving us from lots of trouble. On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Sup. Here's the things that interested me when I read the thread through initially: On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world  Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. On December 04 2011 13:13 xsksc wrote:Ok I'm going to clarify for those unsure. Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie This is exactly what LAL is all about. Do not lie. You are allowed to change your mind. Straight up contradicting yourself is not recommended, but it's not a direct lie either. What is a direct lie is for example what's posted by xsksc, and that shit will get you lynched faster than you can say OMGUS. On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Here he says if he is lurking then to do it in a way that would put pressure on him. He was obviously not scared of being lynched a pure townie reaction. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates. Also he said this quote before saying he was not going to vote. On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. He had already established that he was not going to give details until the morning. BH used this argument against him a little hastily. QUOTE] On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. This quote also can be named as non useful as people get angry if you do not put down a vote. In all I feel like we need to have more analysis of the people we are getting scum reads on as a town. I will continue to look over EB's posts to figure out why they killed him. At the moment though I have come up with some hypothetical situations. 1) The mafia is dumb and voted for the player that was rated by the town as the worst townie ever. 2)EB had a read or opinion that the mafia did not like (xtfftc, xsksc, Turnkeg, jay, Velinath) the problem I think here though is that EB's claims were unsubstantiated in the case of jay a player that we already are looking to lynch. He also mentioned following breadcrumbs were a bad idea, so maybe the mafia wants us to follow breadcrumbs. 3)The mafia is just trying to throw us off with this vote. This is the worst case scenario, it means that the mafia felt safe enough to not take out players that they think the town needs to figure them out. This would mean that the majority of our reads are not strong enough or just plain wrong. Hi! Let's talk about dead people and why they died, because we can't WIFOM this to death or anything. It's an attempt to get the town caught up in talking about things that are, ultimately, largely irrelevant. On December 08 2011 01:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am going to agree with BH on the fact that jay is scum. Looking back over his posts I realize that you have half filler and the other half stuff like this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. You start off with shit like this a little bit of actual analysis. You can see that he changes his opinion halfway through the post. I understand that he does not have a good read on EB, but he should have just stated that he was neutral about him as opposed to leading us around in a circle.Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. Another one of these roundabout things, first he says that he thinks Velinath is townie, but he never backs it up instead choosing to say Bbyte had a good case on him (without a quote) I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much And finally you have this. I am not sure if this is a filler or a personality thing, but he compliments someone for posting after a while, but goes on commenting on how he wants to know more. You do not need to put a whole paragraph to get someone to say something, a simple question will to just fine to make you seem unaggressive. Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. Wait there is more? I am really not sure if this is part of his personality or a filler, but it does not do anything to help the town whatsoever. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me I call this bussing. He reads initially that "jay is probably a misunderstood townie!" - and then goes to here right after the shitstorm with me, jay, and BH. "Let's hop on the bandwagon before anyone suspects me!" He also manages to say all of this and not voteOn December 08 2011 01:55 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
You need to include the whole quote the context that these quotes are in could be very different from the quote itself
Here is an example:
"All cows are green"
Whole Quotes:
"All cows are green in my imagination stories" He whines about context (Soft defend the person that he just said was scum), but apparently he missed the part where anything in the post he was referencing was impossible to take out of context and was just straight up lies. Meh. Both of his last two posts are urging everyone to talk about EB's death some more, because obviously talking about WIFOM reasoning gets us places - even after we've explained why it's a bad idea.BKEXE's tried to pass himself off as a newbie using WIFOM reasoning, tried to misdirect attention off of his scumbuddies, and in general has been inconsistent. He posts limited analysis, much of it nonsensical, in an effort to misdirect the town. He's willing to bus his scumbuddy jaybrundage, but unwilling to lay the vote down - and then softdefends him anyway. He insists that we talk ad nauseum about EB's death - an activity that is ultimately pointless due to WIFOM. I only had time for this one tonight, although I think I've made my position on both jaybrundage and Hassybaby clear in past posts. If you'd like me to post more regarding both of them and/or sum up what posts I find particularly scummy, I can do so; otherwise, please refer to ElectricBlack's case as well as my post EARLIER IN THE THREAD referencing the same points on Hassybaby, and refer to the last 5 pages of this thread for scum evidence on jaybrundage.Bluelightz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=39#776On December 08 2011 18:57 Bluelightz wrote:
BroodKingEXE Leaning Scum - He has been filling the thread with some post's trying to "distance" him and jay
as you can see in Adam's and BH's observation.
Also, if JB flips scum we wil have a strong case on BKEXE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=39#772(not included for ruining my formatting) xtf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=40#790On December 09 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:
Okay, I have limited time, so tell me who you want to me to have a more in-depth look at tonight (or you can have shorter analyses of two/three players, etc.). I consider Grackaroni to be town and I'm less and less suspicious of Veli. My view on the two of you (BH and Tunkeg) hasn't changed - I think you're both town (remind me to go over trusting players you consider to be town even if they're not confirmed if you want to hear why I'm doing it). I'm willing to give Starshard a break even though I would have lynched xsksc, and I'm expecting him to step up and contribute more during Day 3, just like Bluelightz. If Jay flips town, I'd say that EY, xsksc and Adam are the mafia team. If Jay flips red, I think that his partners are BKE and EY/xsk. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=40#792On December 09 2011 04:08 Blazinghand wrote:
The two players I'm most suspicious of are BKE and and xskxc aka Starshard. The problem is, Starshard has gone lurker on us. if he doesn't vote, he may be modkilled for inactivity. I don't have a good read on EY.
Given that EY and xsksc is on both your lists, if you could take a look at them that would be great. I'd stick to EY though just because STarshard/xsksc might get replaced by yet another player and hasn't made many contributions recently. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=41#812On December 09 2011 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post. So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB. Good analysis or bad, and why? Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=41#815On December 09 2011 06:17 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post. So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB. Good analysis or bad, and why? Two things. First, I don't think he was trying to push your analysis off, as he ended up quoting quite a bit of it. Now, that said, I do think that the content itself (after finally being able to tell what part of his post was actually his) was extremely lacking. It feels in keeping with his other recent posts - as a weak attempt to bus JB to fit in with the town. No matter how you slice it, BKEXE feels scummy. ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=43#843On December 09 2011 08:47 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here. You really think it's going to be BKEXE tomorrow? I don't, I think it's going to be me. Xtfftc has pretty much persuaded at least one non mafia. Bluelightz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=43#847On December 09 2011 08:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Since Grackaroni brought up the topic for the next day lynch,
My guesses are
BKEXE/jay
any other guesses? Grack http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=44#880On December 09 2011 09:57 Grackaroni wrote:
In which case my scum team right now would be :
JB
BKEXE
Xtfftc
BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=46#908On December 09 2011 12:31 Blazinghand wrote:
OK, I'm home. I'm gonna start analyzing but before I do I just wanted to stop by and I want people to make cases for lynching people who aren't BKEXE.
I'm like 99% convinced BKEXE is mafia. I'm gonna go after him pretty hard. If anyone can think of a better lynch than BKEXE I want you to make a super super good case for it, please. Also, keep on talking and arguing. The more stuff we argue about the more obvious the mafia will be.
man i'm feeling good. Let's see if we can end this in the next two Days, gentlemen. Adam (he's dead but he has like 20 posts on BKE and he's contributed a lot to Veli's case, so I think there should be at least some reference to him) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=46#909On December 09 2011 12:55 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 12:31 Blazinghand wrote:
OK, I'm home. I'm gonna start analyzing but before I do I just wanted to stop by and I want people to make cases for lynching people who aren't BKEXE.
I'm like 99% convinced BKEXE is mafia. I'm gonna go after him pretty hard. If anyone can think of a better lynch than BKEXE I want you to make a super super good case for it, please. Also, keep on talking and arguing. The more stuff we argue about the more obvious the mafia will be.
man i'm feeling good. Let's see if we can end this in the next two Days, gentlemen. Agreed. I've had a couple of suspicions since day 1, and for the most part our reads seem to be similar. I am pretty sure I understand the meaning of your posts. I am going to read everyone's filter, then construct a single case against the person i find the scummiest, rather than posting a couple paragraphs on everyone as I have previously. Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=46#911On December 09 2011 13:31 Velinath wrote:
I've already stated my case against BKEXE. I feel that Adam's contribution after that case was posted really helps solidify things, especially as he and JB were sticking up for each other for quite some time until JB really started getting pressured.
My third read is still Hassybaby/Bluelightz. xtf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=46#919On December 10 2011 06:28 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:43 Adam4167 wrote:
xtfftc, you seem so sure that ey215 is red, are you willing to stake your own lynching on it, if he flips town? I am not entirely sold on your case on him, maybe that might change after its finished. Since Jay flipped mafia, I expect BKE to be mafia as well, and so the last spot on the team is for either EY or xsksc. I don't feel comfortable calling this one before xsk's replacement starts posting. Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#938On December 10 2011 10:25 Velinath wrote:
Whoo, BH survived. Anyway, here's a little bit of thought.
BKEXE's case on ey215 is hella contrived. Two other people have already pointed this out, but he's cherry picking his quotes and putting them out of order to try and construct points - something that he was accusing me of doing before. Given my case earlier combined with the more recent stuff posted since then:
##Vote: BroodKingEXE
I had a chance to do some filtering over the night. I've got a very strong town read on ey215 after his more recent posts especially, but I'm still not sure what to make of xkskreplacementfest. Once layabout starts posting a bit more, I'll be interested to see how that shapes up.
I'm doing a quiz for one of my classses but I'll be posting some analysis on Bluelightz's posts after he took over from Hassybaby soon. EY http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#940On December 10 2011 10:26 ey215 wrote:
Based on Val's case, Adam's adding onto it, convincing myself after looking through Jay's posts:
##vote: BroodKingEXE Grackaroni http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#928On December 10 2011 08:11 Grackaroni wrote:I'm sticking with the scumteam I was calling earlier. BKEXE labeling Ey215 scum now continues to reinforce my belief. (Ey215 wants to lynch xtfftc) JB BKEXE. Xtfftc. That's just my thoughts, there have been cases made earlier on both of these guys. Not going to do any analysis tonight though; have to study for a test. See you guys soon! (unless I die ) Grackaroni http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#941On December 10 2011 10:31 Grackaroni wrote:
JB defended BKEXE several times throughout the game. (see Adam's earlier quotes)
BH just showed how BKEXE tried to change the target away from JB's lynch.
Most of BKEXE's defense is simply wifom.
##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bluelightz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#942On December 10 2011 10:45 Bluelightz wrote:
BKEXE has been defending JB all game long so,
##Vote: BroodKingEXE BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#945On December 10 2011 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 10:47 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 10 2011 08:10 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2011 08:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scumFirst he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence: On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote:
I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167 On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
He says here in his read that he even needs to more posts to confirm his claim!
Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
Ok, I have only read the first 2 quotes, but take a look at the time stamps. ey215 actually said the 2nd quote first, wanting to give me a bit more time to explain my shitty behavior, then 3 hours later he drops his vote on me. BKE, you are trying to make it look like ey215 is backpedaling on his vote. Stop misrepresenting the truth.I'm now going back to entirely read this - very skeptically. Adam, I said he has no evidence, you are reading too far into his post he never says anything about the shitty behavior. He just says you are not protown, and that need he needs more evidence to prove or disprove that. Other people have analyzed your behavior, yet he says to refer back to a post (in his vote post), where he says he wants to hear more from you. He did not say in his vote post that it was a pressure vote, instead he refers to information that was non-existent. Honestly, the best way to help your case, if you're town, is to identify a mafia player and build a strong case against him. If you do this, you will help the town, and if I'm more convinced that say, Velinath, or whoever, is more likely to be mafia than you, i'll vote for him, as will the others. Defending yourself is important, but if you're innocent, make sure you actually find us a good lynch candidate. In theory, that's what everyone has been doing for the past 24 hours-- writing a good analysis. I'll read up on your EY analysis. I think it's worth your time to defend your EY analysis with quotes from EY and quotes from yourself, rather than just text-- refute using evidence. I want you to build a solid case. (which arguably you may have done). I want you to defend it with evidence. Act like a town player, and that will be your strongest exculpation. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#947On December 10 2011 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:On December 10 2011 10:49 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I wrote this above post as the night ended. Did not realize adam died. ._. Srsly go build a strong case on someone, or strengthen your existing cases. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#949On December 10 2011 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 11:02 BroodKingEXE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:34 Grackaroni wrote:The thing that really seemed suspicious about Ey215 to me was this. On December 05 2011 04:49 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do. If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop. Activity doesn't prove that someone is a townie, of course. But if you have a town read on all the active players, lynching a lurker is great. On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:
On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. 100% agree, this was pretty much my point anyway. And there's a lot of similar views expressed later in the thread by others, so can we say that we've reached consensus? If we don't get a good case, we lynch a lurker. Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A LURKER TO LYNCH, I wish every one of these players would start doing their part and contribute to town. My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. Instead of looking at active players your first priority is to look for a lurker to lynch, which i consider just finding an easy lynch without having to justify why you actually think that the player is scum. First he says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch, but in the last sentence he says we should get rid of someone for not contributing. Okay, let's not look for lurkers, but still be able to lynch them for not contributing! There is no way to figure out if someone is lurking without paying attention to who is lurking!No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active. You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways. This is my reasoning, where was EY's?. Ah, ok, I think you're actually confused here. When EY says "I am not looking for a lurker to lynch", this is a semi-idiomatic expression in english. He doesn't mean he literally won't try to figure it who is lurking; he's saying that lynching lurkers is not his chief goal. He follows up that sentence with: "My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. " So yeah I think you need to read a little more carefully. Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#954On December 10 2011 13:07 Velinath wrote:
Man, format your posts...
ey215's been posting pro-town. I'm still waiting on you to come up with a defense to my case, BKEXE. I'm still waiting for a defense to Adam's note of you defending JB forever. Let's go. Defend yourself or make a more plausible case. ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#955On December 10 2011 13:16 ey215 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 10 2011 12:31 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check. Wait a pissing match I must have missed something.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 15:51 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:45 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:39 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:24 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. You realize that if both scum and town lurkers don't have to post at all, there's no way to differentiate them at all? Even if I have to "browbeat" them into talking, it's better to have browbeaten info than no info. We don't have much to work off right now, so I'd rather produce some information. So far, 100% of lurkers who aren't asleep that i've targetted have come forward. I just don't want some random intimidated townie getting lynched because you deemed a paragraph or two on the question on hand isn't enough and decided to throw out a ##vote on them. I just don't think an combative atmosphere this early on is the way to go, and I think you're creating one. I don't think BH is saying this. Right now we have nothing on lurkers. If they throw out one-liners, as you said, it's a red flag. If they throw out well reasoned responses, that's not. It seems like you're assuming the town will follow BH's lead if he makes a judgment call, and that's not necessarily true. It's still early in the game, and the votes are only meant to provoke discussion right now. The threat of being lynched is far more effective than a simple "Hey, X, come post!" Neither you nor BH are helping the atmosphere of the town with what you're saying. I think both of you should step back for a second and think about how we're all trying to work for the good of the town here. I agree. (omygoshtwoword post I'm in trouble!)
Okay agree with Velinath for defending BH. That's not a piss at BH.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 11:24 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information? Yeah, I'm missing this too. What the heck are you talking about BK?
Okay, agree with BH that my quote was misguided. Well, agreeing is not pissing on BH.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing. I know it's WIFOM, but I keep going around about it and it just doesn't make sense unless he was on to something or a threat to BH (if he's scum). I'm not convinced he had Hasseybaby right, but I think one of the three he had listed is for sure scum. He just hadn't posted enough to be a huge threat and may have even been someone they could get a lynch going on.
At the moment, I'm willing to give BH the benefit of a doubt. After seeing how well he's baited jaybrundage into slipping I think, if town, he's a valuable resource.
It seems like we've got two mini battles going on right now xtsc(or replacement)/tunkeg and jaybrundage/BH. I notice that they both involve names that EB threw out. If jay flips town I think we look at lynching BH, if he's mafia he manipulated jay into slipping masterfully.
Okay, suggests BH could be scum or EB has a correct read, yet he admits himself that it is a WIFOM logic based assumption. Well, admitting that your threat may or may not make sense if not pissing on BH.
So he says that being over the radar involves a couple of light kiss ups to two of major players in town,and a WIFOM logic assumption. Well, the only over the radar thing I see here is a lie.Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.Great job I'm doing staying under the radar.Wait, staying under the radar is not posting. You got warned for inactivity (not posting) and you say you were not staying under the radar?Oh and you may have missed it, but let's see: Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing. I know it's WIFOM, but I keep going around about it and it just doesn't make sense unless he was on to something or a threat to BH (if he's scum). I'm not convinced he had Hasseybaby right, but I think one of the three he had listed is for sure scum. He just hadn't posted enough to be a huge threat and may have even been someone they could get a lynch going on.
At the moment, I'm willing to give BH the benefit of a doubt. After seeing how well he's baited jaybrundage into slipping I think, if town, he's a valuable resource.
It seems like we've got two mini battles going on right now xtsc(or replacement)/tunkeg and jaybrundage/BH. I notice that they both involve names that EB threw out. If jay flips town I think we look at lynching BH, if he's mafia he manipulated jay into slipping masterfully. That's analysis of our current game state, and potentially pushing the conversation. You may or may not ever get a post with 10 quotes of someone from me. If I decide it is needed I will do it, but I'm not going to push some made up case that I come up with just for the sake of looking good. I've read the filters, along with the thread to get it in context, multiple times and have yet to see anything unique that hasn't been said. Anything you get from me on specific players will be a gut instinct or hunch and I don't like going on that. Well this one kind of sums it up. He is not willing to defend his case, because he does not have anything unique to say. This is complete and utter BS. If you do not think it is worth the time to look for reasons to lynch the mafia, then I say you are mafia. Can't wait for your case, I'll be happy to respond. Spoilered his horribly formatted post. I can't believe I'm responding to this. Apparently you weren't paying a lot of attention day one. I seem to recall BH and I getting into a pretty heated discussion, or in the colloquial a pissing match. No, staying under the radar would have been posting in that 24 hours at least once so as not to get warned. "Well this one kind of sums it up. He is not willing to defend his case, because he does not have anything unique to say. This is complete and utter BS. If you do not think it is worth the time to look for reasons to lynch the mafia, then I say you are mafia." Um, where did I say I wasn't looking? I said I didn't have anything unique to add to the case on Jay at that point. In fact, just above your red text I said: "I've read the filters, along with the thread to get it in context, multiple times and have yet to see anything unique that hasn't been said." You're cute BK, I like you. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#956On December 10 2011 13:19 Blazinghand wrote:
BKEXE, I'd be more careful about how I post, were I you. I personally feel a great deal of frustration in my attempts to parse the tomato-stained spaghetti that you call "analysis", and I am one of the more patient folk here. Please, for the good of the town (if you are town) make your case in a legible fashion.
Thank you. Tunkeg http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#965On December 10 2011 22:28 Tunkeg wrote:
I am all for a lynch on BroodKingEXE. His post aren't making mucch sense, and this have been the case from the beginning. At first I wanted to cut him some slack, because of newbiefactor. And I thought a lynch on him would be to easy, as in easy for scum to get a bandwagon on. After a passive first day, he came back on the secound day (the end of Day 1 ingame) posting more, as if he had been told by someone to step up his game. He have as you guys have said been defending jay, before he bussed him and took the opposite approach (this after seeing that jay was going to get lynched). And then comes the part that puts it over the top. He sees xtfftc's and my vote on ey215 and jumps on it, as a last resort to save himself. I belive BKE is scum, and he will have my vote.
My vote on ey215 seems to be wrong, I may have put to much into my probability lynch case, and I really wanted a lynch on one of those four. Having some small scumreads on ey215 I went with it. As of now my entire probability lynch case seems pretty dead, I think BKE is scum, and jay flipped scum, therefor there can't be 2 scum among those 4.
##Vote BroodKingExe
Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#972On December 11 2011 02:10 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:BH, Are you saying that you will ignore EY's lies based on my illegible posts? I have yet to see anyone comment about EY bandwagoning on two of the votes. While I was wrong about Adam others were wrong about Bbyte too. It seems like everyone says I have been defending Jay the whole game from this post: HereOkay, I gave my read on him and defended him...once. On the vote against him I looked at his posts and gave info, others agreed with the vote (like EY) and gave no information whatsoever. You intentionally misrepresented ey in your case by taking his posts out of order like you did. Explain why you did this. layabout http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#977On December 11 2011 02:34 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG
BroodKingEXE we still have time do not martyr yourself now if you are town try to contribute and then the things you have said can be considered if you flip town or try to contribute and find us a scum or two to lynch instead there is also enough time for you to write a reasonable defence Grack http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#978On December 11 2011 02:40 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG
BroodKingEXE Sorry BKEXE but this is exactly what scum would do, you know that you're going to be lynched and after I asked you for who you thought Ey215's scumbuddy would be you post this. A town player would try to give as much information for the town as possible, so that even if it's no longer possible to defend himself from the lynch he could still assist the town and give them more to work off the next day. A scum player would want to leave the town with as little information possible after they get revealed. If you are scum you are making the right decision to shut up now but if you're town please keep talking. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#979On December 11 2011 05:33 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:BH, Are you saying that you will ignore EY's lies based on my illegible posts? I have yet to see anyone comment about EY bandwagoning on two of the votes. While I was wrong about Adam others were wrong about Bbyte too. It seems like everyone says I have been defending Jay the whole game from this post: HereOkay, I gave my read on him and defended him...once. On the vote against him I looked at his posts and gave info, others agreed with the vote (like EY) and gave no information whatsoever. I would really, really like to not ignore his lies, but I honestly don't know what they are. Do you want to know why I don't know what they are? The reason is, your posts are completely, unbelievably illegible. At this point, though, you have planted the seed of doubt in my mind. If you're a mafia player, you've done a really terrible job. But given how a terrible a job you did, it's not beyond comprehension that you are an unbelievably bad town player. I can't read your analysis posts. I ACTUALLY CAN'T READ THEM, MAN. God, this is either the best troll or the worst attempt to defend I've ever seen. If you're a town player I literally refuse to play any mafia games with you ever again. I'm completely serious about this. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG
BroodKingEXE What the dicks is this? Why not actually be helpful? ._. I'm going to look into Grackaroni and Tunkeg, btw. Just to check them out. I'll have an analysis up sometime today. xtf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#963On December 10 2011 17:20 xtfftc wrote:
Morning everyone. I plan to post a lot over the weekend because I have very limited time during workdays. I have put enough time into EY, so I'll be leaving him alone for now unless I find something very convincing. Everything points to BKE being our best lynch today, so I won't dwell too much on why he is mafia. I will, however, analyse his relationships with the other players, because this would help us for next week. Apart from that, I'm not sure what to focus on. I really hope that layabout steps it up because xsk+Starshard have been having a very easy time.
I think we need to come up with some sort of a plan. Just like yesterday with Jay, I don't think that focusing too much on BKE will do us a lot of good. If he's town, he has to do his best to catch mafia, but if he's town, he'll be happy to waste our time like Jay did (BKE, there's two mafia players alive, so you need two cases, not one.). We need to discuss at least two more things:
- do we still want to lynch a lurker if there's no good case (lynching a lurker later in the game is much better than earlier as we have more town reads)?
- if we have a DT, should he investigate the lurkerish players?
These are not for today but for the next few days. If you think there's anything else important to discuss for the late game, don't hesitate to bring it up. Tunkeg http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#966On December 10 2011 22:57 Tunkeg wrote:
I belive it to be a good chance for BKE to flip red. If he do flip red who do you guys see as the third scum? Veli http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#967On December 11 2011 00:09 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 17:20 xtfftc wrote:
Morning everyone. I plan to post a lot over the weekend because I have very limited time during workdays. I have put enough time into EY, so I'll be leaving him alone for now unless I find something very convincing. Everything points to BKE being our best lynch today, so I won't dwell too much on why he is mafia. I will, however, analyse his relationships with the other players, because this would help us for next week. Apart from that, I'm not sure what to focus on. I really hope that layabout steps it up because xsk+Starshard have been having a very easy time.
I think we need to come up with some sort of a plan. Just like yesterday with Jay, I don't think that focusing too much on BKE will do us a lot of good. If he's town, he has to do his best to catch mafia, but if he's town, he'll be happy to waste our time like Jay did (BKE, there's two mafia players alive, so you need two cases, not one.). We need to discuss at least two more things:
- do we still want to lynch a lurker if there's no good case (lynching a lurker later in the game is much better than earlier as we have more town reads)?
- if we have a DT, should he investigate the lurkerish players?
These are not for today but for the next few days. If you think there's anything else important to discuss for the late game, don't hesitate to bring it up. In response to your questions, I feel that at this point it does indeed become beneficial to lynch lurkers. Assuming BKEXE flips scum (which, at this point, is nearly certain to me), we have 1 scum left - which means we can afford to use a lynch or two on people who haven't been participating. Right now that's xkstarshayabout and Hassybluelightz, both of which I'm not totally sure about. At least Bluelightz has been posting a bit, but again, expect some analysis from me later today on that. That said, I feel like our DT should be focusing more on active players that seem suspicious to them, rather than lurkers. If we're going to be looking at lynching lurkers, then we'll get the last scum if they're lurking anyway. If there's any active poster that seems like they're suspicious, then that's a better investigation target. Grack http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=49#974On December 11 2011 02:19 Grackaroni wrote:
@ BKEXE: also if you are town you should be looking for 2 mafia not just one. Who is most likely to be Ey215's scumbuddy?
If you are town it is important that you get all of your thoughts out before the lynch.
Right now you are exclusively pushing Ey215's case which is fine, but the more information you give us the better for town right?
Please try to format your quotes correctly, it's really hard to follow who is saying what when the quotes are not done right. layabout http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=50#981On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote:
i would like to post analysis before i vote and i still have plenty of time to do so but as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe
BKEXE if you are town please help!! because lynching a town today would really hurt our chances
and people have so confidently voted for you they have barely been posting
there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=50#998On December 11 2011 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 16:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
ey: I see that some of his posts have lies, but I have misread some of his posts too. While some of my evidence is bad, I still see lies in his posts that make me think he is scum. If possible, could you post an updated version of your case against ey in which you remove the arguments of yours that turned out to be you misreading his posts, and you use the [quote[ feature legibly? It sounds like you have something worth saying, and if you're a town player, this is your last chance for real analysis. You still have 17 hours to live-- make them count. If you want something interesting to analyze, maybe take a look at the Grack/tunkeg fight. BH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=50#982On December 11 2011 06:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote:
there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting to be fair, we should continue to try to root out the 3rd scum player even assuming that BKEXE is town or scum or whatever. An early start is awlays good. Tunkeg http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=50#983On December 11 2011 07:37 Tunkeg wrote:
If you have ever played poker for instance, this way of thinking is pretty normal. You make educated guesses based on previous actions from the player, based on your own hand at the time, based on the cards on the board and so forth. Early in the game it is harder to put players on spesific hands, but the further into the game the more reads you have on them. But still you put them on hands based on what you think is logical, based on the information at the time. This was fairly early in the game, and I have allready stated that I think I was wrong (not that my logic was wrong) seeing that jay flipped scum, and I think BKE is scum. But I called it as I saw it, and I made my play based on it. + Show Spoiler +AND I'M DONE WITH ALL THE QUOTES FINALLYAKLJSDF;LJKSDFAJ;LKSADFSDFJLKSDFAL MY FINGERS HURT SO MUCH AND MY EYES THE WHOL THREAD AGAIN .................................
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On December 06 2011 04:20 xtfftc wrote:
I think we have two good targets: xsk and Adam (and possibly Jay) but at least there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay.
I've been very vocal about my views on policy lynches and starting another discussion on LAL won't do town any good, so I won't repeat myself. But I really think that it gives mafia an easy ride. Look at how happy xsk was to jump on it - and he's going to be asleep until the deadline, so he won't be changing his vote for a proper lynch.
Obviously, I'm a minority on policies, so you can do it - but I have no reasons to consider Bbyte mafia and lynching mafia is my priority.
On December 06 2011 05:49 xtfftc wrote:
So, I want to lynch xsk for reprimading Blazinghand when Blazinghand was pushing the town forward; for switching from calling out Blazinghand on being too aggressive to being really aggressive himself with no proper reason (and without pushing the town agenda forward); for "pressuring" people but making sure they know that he is happy to unvote them; for jumping on the Bbyte lynch (the easy lynch at the time) after he saw that no one is happy with going after one of the players who looks a lot like town, Tunkeg. I didn't like how he defended himself yesterday (claiming that it's unfair to accuse him of not chasing mafia because he's been doing analysis... just not sharing it with us) but what followed was even worse: tunneling on EB, trying to discredit Tunkeg, and then going after the lurker. Where are his other reads?
I'll post on Adam in a bit.
Also, I think that if you consider one of the lynch candidates to be mafia, you should go for him. If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker.
On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
lol, you said that you fought vigorously against the BByte lynch? This is just an outright lie. before the lynch you make several statements such as: there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay.
If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker.
Then in your last post you even vote for him. "fought vigorously against the BByte lynch" is just complete and utter bullshit.
You were completely willing to vote for him.
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lol @ layabout. You are quite a piece of work, you come out guns blazing, with purely one dimensional cases against me and then on xtfftc. Me you want to lynch based on my probability lynch, xtfftc you want to lynch based on his reasoning behind why he didn't vote jay.
Sure both me and xtfftc should be looked into for beeing on the wrong side of both the lynches that have taken place. But really your stuff is just weak.
The most funny though is that after you first started the case on xtfftc:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:i need to take some time to try to understand Broodking 's post in the meantime i think that xtfftc: has made some glaring contradictions and that he owes and explanation Grackaroni highlighted this in an earlier post and i think you (xtfftc) need to expalin: Show nested quote +I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that here earlier you didn't Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:
Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? so you vote for BByte Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
why? "its better than a last minute suprise" you just jump on a bandwagonShow nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. another contradiction it also doesn't make sense that "to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team" could be a reason for a vote i also think your case against eye is weak i shall soon explain why.
You proceed to post this on BKE:
On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote:
i would like to post analysis before i vote and i still have plenty of time to do so but as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe
BKEXE if you are town please help!! because lynching a town today would really hurt our chances
and people have so confidently voted for you they have barely been posting
there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting
And then you continue your case on xtfftc without adding anything to it, and then vote for him. Basically doing the same thing as he did on the jay case. Are you fucking kidding me??? I think you are trying your best to derail the BKE lynch. Your moves are truly desperate.
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On December 12 2011 03:55 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:20 xtfftc wrote:
I think we have two good targets: xsk and Adam (and possibly Jay) but at least there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay.
I've been very vocal about my views on policy lynches and starting another discussion on LAL won't do town any good, so I won't repeat myself. But I really think that it gives mafia an easy ride. Look at how happy xsk was to jump on it - and he's going to be asleep until the deadline, so he won't be changing his vote for a proper lynch.
Obviously, I'm a minority on policies, so you can do it - but I have no reasons to consider Bbyte mafia and lynching mafia is my priority. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:49 xtfftc wrote:
So, I want to lynch xsk for reprimading Blazinghand when Blazinghand was pushing the town forward; for switching from calling out Blazinghand on being too aggressive to being really aggressive himself with no proper reason (and without pushing the town agenda forward); for "pressuring" people but making sure they know that he is happy to unvote them; for jumping on the Bbyte lynch (the easy lynch at the time) after he saw that no one is happy with going after one of the players who looks a lot like town, Tunkeg. I didn't like how he defended himself yesterday (claiming that it's unfair to accuse him of not chasing mafia because he's been doing analysis... just not sharing it with us) but what followed was even worse: tunneling on EB, trying to discredit Tunkeg, and then going after the lurker. Where are his other reads?
I'll post on Adam in a bit.
Also, I think that if you consider one of the lynch candidates to be mafia, you should go for him. If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
lol, you said that you fought vigorously against the BByte lynch? This is just an outright lie. before the lynch you make several statements such as: there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay. If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker. Then in your last post you even vote for him. "fought vigorously against the BByte lynch" is just complete and utter bullshit. You were completely willing to vote for him.
So, I was again the Lynch All Lurkers policy from the very beginning. I hope there's no need to prove this at least but I will if someone is lazy enough to want me to.
Post links and some quotes:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=24#463
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=24#465
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=24#465
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=24#480
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=25#484
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=25#499
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=26#511
The last one is particularly interesting. If you look at what I've replied to, you'll see Blazinghand and Veli trying to convince me that I should vote for Bbyte. Why would they be trying to convince me if I was "happy to be on the bandwagon"?
Also, I would like to address this directly:
If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker.
This is, as most of your arguments, utterly out of context. This was taken from a post in which I made a case on xsk and in the midst of me trying to convince the town not to lynch the lurker. We had agreed to lynch a lurker if we could consolidate on a case. So, I presented my case and the alternative they should go for in case I am not convincing enough. And you ignore the bit on xsk and only take the very last sentence...
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Updated EY scum read.
I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scum
First he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence:
On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote:
I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167
On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
What I understand is he implies that he needs more posts to confirm his non-town read on Adam.
On December 05 2011 08:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 07:15 jaybrundage wrote:
BKEXE
Nice great to see some content from you i do agree with you on adam but for different reasons I also think your town reads are pretty spot on. What do you think about my reads they actually are pretty close ot yours. Im curious what you thinkg about ey he has posted alot and is not in your reads. He posted a his reads but mostly town.
And Ey if you had to choice a someone to vote for now who would it be. You said BKEXE. But i dont find him a viable vote imo I still think hes new townie unless i see a post that changes my mind about him anyone else on your radar
Until he posted his last post, BKEXE was probably where I'd throw my vote. For the moment, that's just enough to get by. I'd like to see him answer your questions well.
So now, if we were coming to deadline I'd probably vote for Adam4167. Feels like a lot of filler, and a couple of his points I haven't agreed with. I'm honestly not really solid on anyone at the moment. [/quote]
Adam has only made three posts in the game, none of them were fillers:
1) A question for the host
2) an opinion on the prompt, and
3) an flaw response to BH.
This quote shows that EY likes to bandwagon.
On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
He also stated in his first post that breadcrumbing is bad. While it is bad if it lets the mafia know that you're the blue role, it's important to get people's names into post so that if you're blue and get shot we can go back and figure out the people you've checked out.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack
On December 06 2011 06:43 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote:
Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby. Ok, finally got back to the thread after a long day. I apologize that I haven't been back sooner. I'm going to respond to posts as I go through the thread so if anything I say gets contradicted later by someone else I want y'all to understand why. On this post where you say you're either killing people or not, I'm more than willing to kill you tonight. I don't vote only for pressure, if I put a vote on someone I'm willing to let them hang.
In an earlier post, EY says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Yet in this case he has put a vote on someone he does not have a case on. He even said he had reasoning behind a lynch for Adam(although he did not), so why did he vote to lynch a lurker? He had plenty of time to build cases on either of these, but choses to go off and bandwagon on Bbyte after this.
On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:
I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good.
Firstly, how can he say that he is voting for someone not contributing. He has not provided evidence for either of his votes. While he has dug into xtfftc, he has not used any of that scum hunting to build a case. He also did not state a reason for his change in votes, as he did not provide a case for either of them.
Here is another one of his contradictions.
On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:
I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for.
As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling.
As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze.
He blames BH for starting bandwagons on people. Yet he jumps on four himself, after pointing out how bad they are in a postceding post.
On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.
And here is why I think he bandwagoned on JB
On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us.
No reasoning whatsoever first time he mentions JB is scummy. He even says in his read (the only time he analyzes JB) that he was more of a townie. Hey that was kind of a defense of JB too.
On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:Ok, back from my final. For those that might care I think it went well. On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Ok, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.You know before i called you outLook at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundageFuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing.
Wait, he says jay is hedging but then he says there is a lot of hedging in the early game. How does that justify hedging? He defends jay a second time by saying this statement. Okay he then provides an anti-town statement that JB said, but provides no more evidence, and uses the EB killing (a WIFOM evidence) to try to rope in Tunkeg (which he later says is town, but is once again trying to prove mafia).
And this random vote catches him in one last lie:
On December 08 2011 07:55 ey215 wrote:
I was responding to two different people, why is this so hard to understand? To further clarify the point I was making is not scummy it is important. I'll go on and respond to your upcoming response, my vote on Jay is not haphazardly throwing my vote around. I think he's the best case and am willing to lynch him. the same way I was willing to lynch BByte..
He bandwagons on four different people, but all his scum hunting involves Grack, xtfftc, jay, and I. This is a pretty haphardway to vote. He plans to vote for me and has already voted for jay (even though they had the majority on jay before he voted). Yet he has been on an active scum hunt on xtfftc the whole game. He has not even brought him up until after jay. I feel that he uses this scum hunt to distance him from xtfftc, but when I turn town he will try to turn the attention to others who voted for me. If the vote looks like it will go to xtfftc he will put his vote there.
Hey BH, I think this is still too long, how should I use spoilers?
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On December 12 2011 03:58 Tunkeg wrote:lol @ layabout. You are quite a piece of work, you come out guns blazing, with purely one dimensional cases against me and then on xtfftc. Me you want to lynch based on my probability lynch, xtfftc you want to lynch based on his reasoning behind why he didn't vote jay. Sure both me and xtfftc should be looked into for beeing on the wrong side of both the lynches that have taken place. But really your stuff is just weak. The most funny though is that after you first started the case on xtfftc: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:i need to take some time to try to understand Broodking 's post in the meantime i think that xtfftc: has made some glaring contradictions and that he owes and explanation Grackaroni highlighted this in an earlier post and i think you (xtfftc) need to expalin: Show nested quote +I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that here earlier you didn't Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:
Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? so you vote for BByte Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
why? "its better than a last minute suprise" you just jump on a bandwagonShow nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. another contradiction it also doesn't make sense that "to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team" could be a reason for a vote i also think your case against eye is weak i shall soon explain why. You proceed to post this on BKE: Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote:
i would like to post analysis before i vote and i still have plenty of time to do so but as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe
BKEXE if you are town please help!! because lynching a town today would really hurt our chances
and people have so confidently voted for you they have barely been posting
there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting And then you continue your case on xtfftc without adding anything to it, and then vote for him. Basically doing the same thing as he did on the jay case. Are you fucking kidding me??? I think you are trying your best to derail the BKE lynch. Your moves are truly desperate.
i want you to look at this post and explain to me the errors you have made
then apologise and lets move on
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Dammit I missed that quote.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 12 2011 04:34 BroodKingEXE wrote:Updated EY scum read. I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scumFirst he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote:
I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167 Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
What I understand is he implies that he needs more posts to confirm his non-town read on Adam. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:00 ey215 wrote:On December 05 2011 07:15 jaybrundage wrote:
BKEXE
Nice great to see some content from you i do agree with you on adam but for different reasons I also think your town reads are pretty spot on. What do you think about my reads they actually are pretty close ot yours. Im curious what you thinkg about ey he has posted alot and is not in your reads. He posted a his reads but mostly town.
And Ey if you had to choice a someone to vote for now who would it be. You said BKEXE. But i dont find him a viable vote imo I still think hes new townie unless i see a post that changes my mind about him anyone else on your radar Until he posted his last post, BKEXE was probably where I'd throw my vote. For the moment, that's just enough to get by. I'd like to see him answer your questions well. So now, if we were coming to deadline I'd probably vote for Adam4167. Feels like a lot of filler, and a couple of his points I haven't agreed with. I'm honestly not really solid on anyone at the moment. Adam has only made three posts in the game, none of them were fillers: 1) A question for the host 2) an opinion on the prompt, and 3) an flaw response to BH. This quote shows that EY likes to bandwagon. On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
He also stated in his first post that breadcrumbing is bad. While it is bad if it lets the mafia know that you're the blue role, it's important to get people's names into post so that if you're blue and get shot we can go back and figure out the people you've checked out.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack On December 06 2011 06:43 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote:
Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby. Ok, finally got back to the thread after a long day. I apologize that I haven't been back sooner. I'm going to respond to posts as I go through the thread so if anything I say gets contradicted later by someone else I want y'all to understand why. On this post where you say you're either killing people or not, I'm more than willing to kill you tonight. I don't vote only for pressure, if I put a vote on someone I'm willing to let them hang. In an earlier post, EY says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Yet in this case he has put a vote on someone he does not have a case on. He even said he had reasoning behind a lynch for Adam(although he did not), so why did he vote to lynch a lurker? He had plenty of time to build cases on either of these, but choses to go off and bandwagon on Bbyte after this. On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:
I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good.
Firstly, how can he say that he is voting for someone not contributing. He has not provided evidence for either of his votes. While he has dug into xtfftc, he has not used any of that scum hunting to build a case. He also did not state a reason for his change in votes, as he did not provide a case for either of them. Here is another one of his contradictions. On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:
I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for.
As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling.
As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. He blames BH for starting bandwagons on people. Yet he jumps on four himself, after pointing out how bad they are in a postceding post. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.
And here is why I think he bandwagoned on JB On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us. No reasoning whatsoever first time he mentions JB is scummy. He even says in his read (the only time he analyzes JB) that he was more of a townie. Hey that was kind of a defense of JB too. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:Ok, back from my final. For those that might care I think it went well. On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Ok, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.You know before i called you outLook at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundageFuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing. Wait, he says jay is hedging but then he says there is a lot of hedging in the early game. How does that justify hedging? He defends jay a second time by saying this statement. Okay he then provides an anti-town statement that JB said, but provides no more evidence, and uses the EB killing (a WIFOM evidence) to try to rope in Tunkeg (which he later says is town, but is once again trying to prove mafia). And this random vote catches him in one last lie: On December 08 2011 07:55 ey215 wrote:
I was responding to two different people, why is this so hard to understand? To further clarify the point I was making is not scummy it is important. I'll go on and respond to your upcoming response, my vote on Jay is not haphazardly throwing my vote around. I think he's the best case and am willing to lynch him. the same way I was willing to lynch BByte.. He bandwagons on four different people, but all his scum hunting involves Grack, xtfftc, jay, and I. This is a pretty haphardway to vote. He plans to vote for me and has already voted for jay (even though they had the majority on jay before he voted). Yet he has been on an active scum hunt on xtfftc the whole game. He has not even brought him up until after jay. I feel that he uses this scum hunt to distance him from xtfftc, but when I turn town he will try to turn the attention to others who voted for me. If the vote looks like it will go to xtfftc he will put his vote there. Hey BH, I think this is still too long, how should I use spoilers?
Enough, we get it you think I'm scum. Even if you managed to convince enough people of that it would flip around on you the second I flip town. Which I will.
Saying over and over again that I have lied (which I haven't) doesn't make it so. Stating over and over again that I bandwagoned, even after it's been pointed out by xtfftc in his case doesn't prove/disprove anything further.
None of this is original, none of this is doing what others have asked you to do (find the second scum), and as others have pointed out at least one of your many posts against me contained an outright intentional misinterpretation by posting my quotes out of order. I may have missed it, but did you even answer any of the questions asked to you about that?
I was already convinced that you were going to flip red, but this is just embarrassing. All you're doing is trying to not give anyone more information.
Stop trying to save yourself and try hunting scum, that's what town members do.
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Ok, no fancy quotes no fancy analysis but I do have some opinions to share about the last 24 hours of posts.
layabout I disagree with both of your cases vehemently. Remember, Xt has spent most of the last two days trying to get me lynched, but I think his vote patterns make sense. Day one, he's right he begrudgingly voted for BByte. Day two he made a case on me and placed his vote there. While I do agree it's best for the town if his vote goes on Jaybrundage I think at least his reasoning of keeping a vote on me when it was obvious Jay was getting lynched is good reasoning.
I do however have an issue with him being worried about looking like he was jumping on a bandwagon. Don't worry about what it looks like when you vote, just try to make sure the vote makes sense and is highly likely to kill scum.
If anyone looks bad from yesterday's vote it's Tunkeg, however you're "case" against him is really not particularly good. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding of what he was saying, but really his poker analogy is relevant (not filler like you called it) and an approach you can take to a game of limited information. It is folly to not use all information you get when coming to an educated decision on who you are going to vote for. I do agree he was wrong in listing only certain potential duo's of scum, but not wanting to put your own name on a list like that is probably pretty understandable.
I think the townies that have played best so far are those that are not playing not to get lynched, but are playing to win and I imagine (not sure) it's a common new town mistake to play the other way around so they therefore appear scummier than they really are.
You could be right, one or both of those guys could be scum but those cases aren't nearly convincing enough.
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ebwop: Your not you're, I actually facepalmed when I read my own post and saw that.
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Tunkeg and Velinath have been on BKE pretty much all game long. At first for him lurking, then for him making no sense whatsoever, and finally for him trying to twist people's words. Velinath in particular has posted the most on BKE, including a solid case. I have had a town read on Veli for most of the came (excluding some herp-derp moments during Day 2), so I was pleased to see him being consistent while re-reading the thread.
Hassy and Blue, his replacement, have both been sheeping when it comes to BKE, without saying much. This is, in a way, consistent for them as well, considering that they haven't been doing much but lurking and sheeping. When I was going through Day 1 earlier today, I realised that Hassy warranted a policy lynch as much as Bbyte did. Blue seriously has to step up with a case during Night 3/Day 4.
EY - openly sheeping (as per usual) and turns into a meanie once BKE makes accuses him of being mafia.
xsksc - mostly quiet. No proper justification until...
xtf - mostly quiet as well. I've called him an easy lynch (which he was at the moment) and I've also said that "I just can't imagine him being mafia". Once the link between Jay and BKE was revealed, I have started including him in my warrantable scum teams. No proper justification.
BH - for the beginning mostly "mild scumleads". I thought they were just part of his less obvious pressuring for lurkers. On Day 2 he talks about BKE being one of the players he is "most suspicious of" and he also bases it mostly on the "literal figurative smokescreen" in defence of Jay. No proper justification. Is being a bit mean.
Grack - no proper justification, later mentioning the link between Jay and BKE.
layabout starts with (sort of?) agreeing that BKE is the obvious lynch, I think. "as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe". layabout, could you clarify this, please? Do you think that BKE is mafia or not? You can keep your vote on me but you have to give us your read of BKE.
A few people have urged him to contribute even if he's getting lynched tonight. BH has been a bit of a strange figure while doing this - urging BKE to post, then using some colourful expressions that have obviously frustrated BKE and may have deterred him from posting more. After he posted on EY, me and Grack have urged him to come up with a second mafia read.
In conclusion, most of the town has sheeped on BKE (with Veli, Adam and to a lesser extent Tunkeg being the exceptions). I feel like there wasn't a proper attempt to change the direction of the lynch until late Day 3 and I agree that the third mafia player may have simply abandoned Jay and BKE to save himself/herself.
As I was re-reading his earlier posts just now, I reached the same conclusion as before: bad townie. After Bbyte's lynch he finally stepped it up and started posting stuff and it became obvious that he was struggling to come up with his analysis. This was similar to Jay, with the main difference being that Jay posted much more filler during Day 1. But both couldn't keep it up when they were forced to provide their reads. I have yet to post on how BKE himself has posted on the other players but for now I don't see many promising leads. I'd sayu that the mafia is hiding amongst the quieter players but perhaps I'm seeing things this way simply because those who have posted a lot on BKE are my town reads anyway.
##Vote: BroodKingEXE
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On December 12 2011 04:53 ey215 wrote:
Enough, we get it you think I'm scum.
BH specifically asked BKE to post on you again, so you don't get to complain. ^^
BKE, could you post more on your second read?
On December 12 2011 05:11 ey215 wrote:I do however have an issue with him being worried about looking like he was jumping on a bandwagon. Don't worry about what it looks like when you vote, just try to make sure the vote makes sense and is highly likely to kill scum.
If you're talking about my WIFOM example - it wasn't me being worried but an example of how what he accused me of doesn't make sense.
If you're talking about something else, could you remind me of it because I don't see why I'd post anything like this.
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Okay, time to address layabout's last post on me.
On December 11 2011 23:41 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +I never said that Jay was my best read.
I said I consider a mafia team consisting of Jay, BKE, and EY or xsk more likely than the alternative.
And I already explained the WIFOM perspective to you Show nested quote +'ve posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) liar liar liar
"more likely" = "best read"? To quote you again, "seriously?"
you say you are uneasy about the lynch being easily decided but feeling uneasy when facing uncertainty is not a reason to not follow the obvious course of action. If you had genuine reservations about what was happening you should have tried to come up with a better alternative and you should not have tried to pursue a worse course of action because doing so is anti-town.
So you're accusing me of not being able to come up with some super smart solution for town? I am pretty happy with what the results considering the situation.
additionaly i have already explained that the wifom perspective is not relevant so an explanation of it is similarly worthless posting that looks like a contribution (which in itself is scum like).
It's not my fault you don't get it. I won't waste more time explaining it to you. If anyone else has any questions about this, feel free to post them, but I don't see a way to explain it to layabout.
it isn't a case!!!you have not shown why his actions would be anti town and why they would make him likey to be scum.
Yes I did. You, however, make claims without providing any proof to back them up, and you also ignore the bits that don't suit you. I spend a lot of time to analyse and post on Day 1 but you somehow find it okay to accuse me for not spending even more.
Show nested quote +You are a liar. I wasn't happy to be on the Day 1 bandwagon and it is obvious from all the effort I put in my attempts to prevent it.
And where is my motive for not voting for Jay? Seriously? If I'm mafia, what is my motive? Are you saying that I knew that someone was mafia and outright refused to vote for him in order to look more suspicious after the red flip? Did I try to save Jay by not voting? Anyone with half a brain would know that he was dead a few hours into Day 2 - and yet I decided not to switch to him for ~36 hours in order to gain absolutely nothing out of it? i fail to see how i have "lied" im not suggesting a motive i suggesting that your actions are anti town, trying to come up with a motive in this circumstance is unreliable and unhelpful
So you're not actually accusing me of being mafia, you're just using your time to point out that I'm playing badly?
Well, I don't see how I'm a bad townie. How did my actions hurt the town? Surely if they're so anti-town, you should be able to prove it.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
its "really obvious" that you "really tried" to prevent it what with you being on it. the argument that you didn't want to waste you vote and that a late vote switch is not a bad one but i cannot accept it from you when you through your actions tried to push a day 2 lynch on a player a few hours before the deadline or simply wasted you vote which could have accommodated a last minute vote switch (you + tunkeg had voted a couple of voteswitches could have easily changed the lynch). Your actions are polar opposites.
It's funny that you are actually drawing attention to how my actions were in no way anti-town without realising it.
Everyone can check what happened during the last 10 hours of Day 1 and decide for himself/herself whether it was obvious that I was trying to prevent Bbyte's lynch.
And everyone can go re-read Day 2 and decide for himself/herself whether it was possible for the mafia to switch from Jay without sacrificing their whole team and thus forfeiting the game.
See, you are missing something important: on Day 1 we actually had alternative cases, so a switch was very much possible. On Day 2 pretty much everyone voted on Jay from the beginning. Any attempt to lynch someone else would have been identified immediately.
Show nested quote +As for the rest of your post, it's a gameplay opinion that I disagree with. But even though I think that you are wrong, I can see your point. All I have to add on the subject is that I explained my vote at the time and no one had an issue with it, so I think that the problem is in you - or you're trying to turn it into a problem because of your red alignment. the game play opinion is that you should act in the best interest of town and that you should vote for the player you th ink most likely to flip scum. my point is that YOU also said that this is how you SHOULD vote and yet YOU HAVE NOT done.so
I did act in the best interest of town. I pushed my best mafia reads, I argued against lynching a lurker on Day 1 and I facilitated a discussion on Day 2. If I have done anything to hurt town, you should be able to prove it instead of simply making statements without backing them up.
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I wanted to post these two bits separately because the first part is a responce to layabout's nonsence, while the second is analysis of his play. Consider what has layabout done since replacing xsk's replacement:
- tell us he can't imagine another lynch but BKE
- a gigantic OMGUS (both me and Tunkeg - the players layabout has "analysed" - were on xsksc earlier)
- try to push for a late switch
I put him and EY as the third mafia member and I've stated that he has a lot to prove if he wants to prove xsk's innocence, so he knows he has to do something about it.
But in the process he has revealed himself. This is quite a long post, so I've put the quotes in spoilers to make it more readable.
- he deliberately quoted just half of my explanation of how Grackaroni was using WIFOM. Some of the other posts he quoted contained a lot of stuff that had nothing to do with his point and were very long and made his case harder to read - yet he didn't find it necessary to remove them. But he decided to cut out two very important lines and then use what's left to accuse me. Check out the actual quotes in the spoiler if you don't remember his post.
+ Show Spoiler +Example #1: Quoting a post that contains a lot of irrelevant information without bothering to cut it out. The bits in green are the bits that have nothing to do with what he is talking about that he decided to include anyway. The bits in red are what he is actually refering to. On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself.
You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job.On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything.
What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily...
Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read Example #2: Cutting of half of my example. The bit in red is what Grackaroni posted and the green is what I wrote. Note that layabout didn't use the quote function - he simply marked what he wanted with his mouse. You will notice this clearly if you have a look at his original post ( link, compare the second and the third quote). On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? And here you can see the rest of my post; the bit in green is what layabout omitted. On December 10 2011 06:23 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote:I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . . I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. Let's also consider me being mafia for the sake of discussing my actions. Vote for Jay and get accused of bandwagonning, or don't and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia? It works both ways.
- he quotes something and calls it as exactly the opposite + a scumslip? This is something new I just noticed, so you should definitely check it out.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that In the "above quote" I was pushing for my best read - EY - and I voted for him 45 later. Moreover, this might even turn out to be a blatant scumslip. How does layabout know that I did not vote for mafia? I kept my vote on EY and did not switch to Jay. So, if EY is town, it appears to be true: I did not vote for mafia (Jay) but I did the opposite instead. Read it again: you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read
and yet in the above quote you do not do that It can be just bad wording but it makes me very suspicious.
- he is twisting facts
This one may be a bit boring as I have to go through the thread post by post but I think it's worth reading.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:
Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? He calls me out for this post and there's two interesting bits here. layabout posted "you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously?" Yet I never voted for Adam and the post layabout quoted was me saying that I don't hjave a good case on Adam. Furthermore, I had posted my thoughts on EY throughout the day. There's 1 2 3 4 5 posts that have stuff on EY just from the first half of Day 1. This is lot for such a short period of time. Yet layabout tries to discredit me for not posting my case. In fact, I actually got called out for tunneling EY a bit too much (Grackaroni comes to mind but I think there were others as well), so I decided that it would be more productive if I focus on other players until the end of the day and I went after xsk and Adam. Eventually, I realised that my case on Adam wasn't good enough and I wrote "Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215", so I stuck to what I had on xsk. Note that this was hours after I had decided not to go after EY until Day 2. Actually, it gets even better. See, what I did after moving away from EY was to build my case on xsk, the player layabout eventually substituted. layabout used a comparisson I made between two of my cases - on EY and Adam - to criticise me for switching from EY to xsk. So, to recap: - he quoted two posts that had more than 24 hours between them to prove that I did not focus on my main read (EY), while disregarding everything that happened in the meanwhile that made me focus on someone else (xsk); - layabout misrepresented the truth by accusing me of not posting on EY even though I clearly did; - used what I wrote on Adam to discredit me for voting for xsk, the player layabout replaced.
- Lynch All Liars?
On December 11 2011 22:13 layabout wrote:you were happy to be on a day1 bandwagon
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And that's it, I'm done for tonight. Will be back tomorrow afternoon when I finish work.
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On December 12 2011 05:11 ey215 wrote:
Ok, no fancy quotes no fancy analysis but I do have some opinions to share about the last 24 hours of posts.
layabout I disagree with both of your cases vehemently. Remember, Xt has spent most of the last two days trying to get me lynched, but I think his vote patterns make sense. Day one, he's right he begrudgingly voted for BByte. Day two he made a case on me and placed his vote there. While I do agree it's best for the town if his vote goes on Jaybrundage I think at least his reasoning of keeping a vote on me when it was obvious Jay was getting lynched is good reasoning.
I do however have an issue with him being worried about looking like he was jumping on a bandwagon. Don't worry about what it looks like when you vote, just try to make sure the vote makes sense and is highly likely to kill scum.
If anyone looks bad from yesterday's vote it's Tunkeg, however you're "case" against him is really not particularly good. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding of what he was saying, but really his poker analogy is relevant (not filler like you called it) and an approach you can take to a game of limited information. It is folly to not use all information you get when coming to an educated decision on who you are going to vote for. I do agree he was wrong in listing only certain potential duo's of scum, but not wanting to put your own name on a list like that is probably pretty understandable.
I think the townies that have played best so far are those that are not playing not to get lynched, but are playing to win and I imagine (not sure) it's a common new town mistake to play the other way around so they therefore appear scummier than they really are.
You could be right, one or both of those guys could be scum but those cases aren't nearly convincing enough.
to clarify: i am not saying that tunkeg is scum i am not making a caes against him
i was just pressuring him based of actions which i believe could only be anti-town
+ the analogy isn't relevant because it does not deal with the questions i asked!!! it is general garbage about mindset not an answer, that is why i deem it not relevant,
a summary of his defense and actions
"mafia is a guessing game im using probability, they use probability in poker and im using that similarity to compensate for the fact that my assumptions were unreasonable and i proposed we should lynch randomly into 1 of the 4 players that voted for the lynch target because i dont think the others are scum but i cant prove that and because i think that 2 scum voted for the lynch but we really have no idea how many voted for the lynch"
my main problem is what he proposed and how he got there. i was not satisfied with his answer.
but i think that xtfftc is very likely to be scum and that we should lynch him.
bolded part: how on earth do you not see how his behaviour is contradictory?
his attitudes towards the day1 and day2 lynchings are completely incompatible and not justifiable.
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On December 12 2011 05:18 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg and Velinath have been on BKE pretty much all game long. At first for him lurking, then for him making no sense whatsoever, and finally for him trying to twist people's words. Velinath in particular has posted the most on BKE, including a solid case. I have had a town read on Veli for most of the came (excluding some herp-derp moments during Day 2), so I was pleased to see him being consistent while re-reading the thread.
Hassy and Blue, his replacement, have both been sheeping when it comes to BKE, without saying much. This is, in a way, consistent for them as well, considering that they haven't been doing much but lurking and sheeping. When I was going through Day 1 earlier today, I realised that Hassy warranted a policy lynch as much as Bbyte did. Blue seriously has to step up with a case during Night 3/Day 4.
EY - openly sheeping (as per usual) and turns into a meanie once BKE makes accuses him of being mafia.
xsksc - mostly quiet. No proper justification until...
xtf - mostly quiet as well. I've called him an easy lynch (which he was at the moment) and I've also said that "I just can't imagine him being mafia". Once the link between Jay and BKE was revealed, I have started including him in my warrantable scum teams. No proper justification.
BH - for the beginning mostly "mild scumleads". I thought they were just part of his less obvious pressuring for lurkers. On Day 2 he talks about BKE being one of the players he is "most suspicious of" and he also bases it mostly on the "literal figurative smokescreen" in defence of Jay. No proper justification. Is being a bit mean.
Grack - no proper justification, later mentioning the link between Jay and BKE.
layabout starts with (sort of?) agreeing that BKE is the obvious lynch, I think. "as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe". layabout, could you clarify this, please? Do you think that BKE is mafia or not? You can keep your vote on me but you have to give us your read of BKE.
A few people have urged him to contribute even if he's getting lynched tonight. BH has been a bit of a strange figure while doing this - urging BKE to post, then using some colourful expressions that have obviously frustrated BKE and may have deterred him from posting more. After he posted on EY, me and Grack have urged him to come up with a second mafia read.
In conclusion, most of the town has sheeped on BKE (with Veli, Adam and to a lesser extent Tunkeg being the exceptions). I feel like there wasn't a proper attempt to change the direction of the lynch until late Day 3 and I agree that the third mafia player may have simply abandoned Jay and BKE to save himself/herself.
As I was re-reading his earlier posts just now, I reached the same conclusion as before: bad townie. After Bbyte's lynch he finally stepped it up and started posting stuff and it became obvious that he was struggling to come up with his analysis. This was similar to Jay, with the main difference being that Jay posted much more filler during Day 1. But both couldn't keep it up when they were forced to provide their reads. I have yet to post on how BKE himself has posted on the other players but for now I don't see many promising leads. I'd sayu that the mafia is hiding amongst the quieter players but perhaps I'm seeing things this way simply because those who have posted a lot on BKE are my town reads anyway.
##Vote: BroodKingEXE
EY - openly sheeping (as per usual) and turns into a meanie once BKE makes accuses him of being mafia.
I'm so sick of your bullshit. Would someone explain to me how reading someone's case, going back and looking through a filter to see if you agree/do not agree with said case, coming to the same conclusion as the case and then casting an educated vote is "sheeping"? Do I need to post the same quotes I have either done in a previous post or the same stuff everyone else has on the person I'm voting for? I'm honestly asking so I can improve.
Or is this just a case of xt being a jackass and I should let it go?
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BKEXE, 4 hours until the lynch. You said before that your 2 strongest reads are ey215/Xtfftc. Give us your case on xtf.
Needless to say though the chance of them both being scum together are extremely low.
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EPT
