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Homeless Problem "In Canada/United States"
Source: Walrdon's Paper!!
Intro
I read Jeremy Waldron's paper on homeless people and it was pretty interesting and I want to start a discussion on this topic.
First I'm going to discuss the paper, then I'm going to give three of my personal solutions to the problem. 3 solutions out of infinity solutions, just 3 I chose... no need to restrict ourselves here. Then we have discussion and dialogue!! ;D
Background
Alright so the paper talks about how homeless people don't have the freedom to do things. He looks at actions homeless people can do and shows us that they actually have little freedom in what they are allowed to do.
First, an action must take place somewhere. Then, you need to be allowed to do that action, in order to do it legally.
Homeless people do not have a right to be on private property and only on public property, or common property, such as parks and sidewalks. Non-homeless people don't have a right to be in a lot of places as well, but the thing that distinguishes them from homeless people, is that they have ONE, place they can go to whenever they want and do things such as sleep and bodily functions.
Homeless people do not have to freedom to sleep or urinate or defecate because they have no where they are allowed to do it.
Right now we are setting up regulations for parks and sidewalks and there is just no place for homeless people to do things.
3 solutions to the problem
Now the three solutions. In my mind, I see like all of society getting together and voting on one of the three solutions and then doing it. So.. yeah...
1. We as a society decide to address the problem of homelessness and give assistance to the homeless to get them off the streets and into a position where they are productive contributing members of society.
uhh a few points here...
First, most homeless people have psychological disorders due to the revolving door phenomenon. And also lets assume homeless people who don't have psychological disorders were just unlucky and they need help to get back in the game. Also maybe people who who end up homeless just didn't have secure attachment as a child, had neglectful parents, poor socialization in the family and school or whatever. So it's not really their fault they are homeless, therefore we should help them. "the majority of them isn't their fault..."
Of course choosing to aid doesn't solve the logistical problem of actually aiding... but yeah ahh I barley know what I'm talking about, and I'm not even citing or giving resources so... D; next solution
2. Get rid of homeless people.*
If we have a society where they can't sleep or urinate, we might as well get rid of them so they don't sleep in our parks and sidewalks. Either help them or get rid of them and... if you don't feel like dedicating resources to helping homeless people, or you feel they don't deserve it... then this is a possible solution... however morally repulsive...
*very bad idea upon review...
3. do nothing.
just don't do anything to address the fact that homeless people don't have a place they are allowed to sleep.
Conclusion
Alright so... hopefully I did an alright job with this post... I want to just spark some discussion and hopefully provide some utility... ^_^;;
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You could also try jumping over the homeless. I heard this works in some circumstances.
User was warned for this post
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Link the paper maybe?
Ever consider many homeless don't want help or have given up "living in society"?
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About 4 years ago, my mom took me to do some community service @ the food shelter, They all usually just sleep on the shelters lawn. They are homeless because they don't like to work. Sure there are the some that lost their jobs/ house and are still "Working class" worthy people. But most of the homeless are either drunks/ junkies/ drifters. Trust me "Downtown Phoenix Arizona" they usually beg for the money, go buy liquor or drugs. Unless they want help, theres nothing they can do. The ones that seek help I applaud them. Bought a hamburger for a homeless guy in downtown once, he cussed me out saying how is he supposed to buy beer with a hamburger. I literally snatched the burger back.
Ninja Edit:
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We shouldnt discuss this. Chill says we shouldnt talk on team liquid what we dont have control over.
User was temp banned for this post.
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4. Ignore them and don't give them money. Let them sleep where they want and urinate on plants to fertilize them. You can't ignore the fact that some people are homeless because they want to be. So I say, let them.
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Is there much of a problem over in Canada?
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Osaka27093 Posts
Can you link to the paper, since your summary is pretty brief?
Your solutions aren't really solutions either. They are just options. And the second one is not realistic.
There is a lack of liberties for those who live outside social norms, but that is natural since the rules of society are made by and for the vast majority of people who can function in it.
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2. Get rid of homeless people.
If we have a society where they can't sleep or urinate, we might as well get rid of them so they don't sleep in our parks and sidewalks. Either help them or get rid of them and... if you don't feel like dedicating resources to helping homeless people, or you feel they don't deserve it... then this is a possible solution... however morally repulsive...
Uhm, would you care to explain what the hell you mean with `get rid of them´?!
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Being homeless is not fun.
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On November 17 2011 15:01 Boblhead wrote:
About 4 years ago, my mom took me to do some community service @ the food shelter, They all usually just sleep on the shelters lawn. They are homeless because they don't like to work. Sure there are the some that lost their jobs/ house and are still "Working class" worthy people. But most of the homeless are either drunks/ junkies/ drifters. Trust me "Downtown Phoenix Arizona" they usually beg for the money, go buy liquor or drugs. Unless they want help, theres nothing they can do. The ones that seek help I applaud them. Bought a hamburger for a homeless guy in downtown once, he cussed me out saying how is he supposed to buy beer with a hamburger. I literally snatched the burger back.
Ninja Edit:
I totally get your point. I guess it isn't exactly easy to just... cure them of homelessness by throwing resources at the problem.
On November 17 2011 15:15 Manifesto7 wrote:
Can you link to the paper, since your summary is pretty brief?
Your solutions aren't really solutions either. They are just options. And the second one is not realistic.
There is a lack of liberties for those who live outside social norms, but that is natural since the rules of society are made by and for the vast majority of people who can function in it.
Paper linked!
On November 17 2011 15:04 sc4k wrote:
Is there much of a problem over in Canada?
ahh it's a problem in vancouver...
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On November 17 2011 15:18 Samba wrote:Show nested quote +2. Get rid of homeless people.
If we have a society where they can't sleep or urinate, we might as well get rid of them so they don't sleep in our parks and sidewalks. Either help them or get rid of them and... if you don't feel like dedicating resources to helping homeless people, or you feel they don't deserve it... then this is a possible solution... however morally repulsive... Uhm, would you care to explain what the hell you mean with `get rid of them´?!
Launch them into the sun, obviously.
This is kind of a silly OP, as not only has each solution been tried in larger or smaller ways, but each solution also lacks realistic actionable plans to achieve them, and open up huge debates about the moral and practical implications of each, which the OP doesn't address at all.
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Take it from me, someone who has been actually physically and literally homeless for over 2 years, living in shelters etc, in Canada anyway there are a SHIT TON of options and help available. Daily free meals, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Free places to stay, for as long as you need to. Job placement agencies and government programs for free clothes for interviews. Fuck the government even paid for my security deposit and first months rent after I had established myself at a job for 3 months.
This is why it pisses me the fuck off when I see homeless people begging for my hard earned money. I've literally been there, now I own a 2011 benz. I came from a pretty fucked up situation and I got through it with hard work and dedication. In Canada ANYONE can get a fucking job and a place to stay if they want one.
Most of the homeless people are a fucking waste of space and taxes, lazy assholes.
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On November 17 2011 15:24 SonicTitan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 15:18 Samba wrote:2. Get rid of homeless people.
If we have a society where they can't sleep or urinate, we might as well get rid of them so they don't sleep in our parks and sidewalks. Either help them or get rid of them and... if you don't feel like dedicating resources to helping homeless people, or you feel they don't deserve it... then this is a possible solution... however morally repulsive... Uhm, would you care to explain what the hell you mean with `get rid of them´?! Launch them into the sun, obviously. This is kind of a silly OP, as not only has each solution been tried in larger or smaller ways, but each solution also lacks realistic actionable plans to achieve them, and open up huge debates about the moral and practical implications of each, which the OP doesn't address at all.
i agree with you... i don't really know how to address the moral and practical implications...
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"get rid of them"
..What? Homeless genocide doesn't seem like anything that anybody in their right mind could consider an option.
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On November 17 2011 15:27 Noak3 wrote:
"get rid of them"
..What? Homeless genocide doesn't seem like anything that anybody in their right mind could consider an option.
ahh now i feel silly D;
i guess i was kind of trying to point out a need to deal with the problem in either a way with maximum care or minimum care... but these extremes don't really fit with reality at all
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On November 17 2011 15:27 Noak3 wrote:
"get rid of them"
..What? Homeless genocide doesn't seem like anything that anybody in their right mind could consider an option.
If you get over the moral side of it, its a very practical solution. No Homeless people = no homeless problem. And since we kill everyone who becomes homeless, added incentive to try harder!
But yea, I live in a town in BC and I see homeless people from time to time. It's annoying because although they may have had issues to get to where there are, they could easily get help from somewhere, they just choose not to.
However instead of killing them I say we put them in forced manual labour. Make them actually be useful to society.
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On November 17 2011 15:25 TadH wrote:
Take it from me, someone who has been actually physically and literally homeless for over 2 years, living in shelters etc, in Canada anyway there are a SHIT TON of options and help available. Daily free meals, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Free places to stay, for as long as you need to. Job placement agencies and government programs for free clothes for interviews. Fuck the government even paid for my security deposit and first months rent after I had established myself at a job for 3 months.
This is why it pisses me the fuck off when I see homeless people begging for my hard earned money. I've literally been there, now I own a 2011 benz. I came from a pretty fucked up situation and I got through it with hard work and dedication. In Canada ANYONE can get a fucking job and a place to stay if they want one.
Most of the homeless people are a fucking waste of space and taxes, lazy assholes. Damn that's a crazy story much respect, I solute you. 
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I really can't support saying get rid of them when there are some who really just are down on their luck. The drug addicts and all I wouldn't mind though, providing that they have been shown to not be fixable. Forced killing isn't exactly something that will get you re-elected either.
Probably just set up some sort of shelter system (which already exists in most places) with basic walk-in amenities (toilet), then have some sort of designated sleeping area. It has never ceased to amaze me how in Bombay at night, the pavements can turn into a bed for thousands of people, all with a blanket.
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Well here is what you do, you have a big homeless dinner for free, and invite all the homeless people but they have to prove they are homeless. But here's the catch, you poison all the food so when they eat it they die :0. Then you take all the dead bodies and burn them for energy, this is such a good plan I don't know what they are waiting for.
+ Show Spoiler +Not serious obviously, but there is no easy solution to the problem. Throwing money at it is the worst thing you can do, they will take the cash spend it and go back to the same position because most of them don't want to do anything to begin with.
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EPT
