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On October 20 2011 19:41 parazice wrote: why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"- just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio Progamer whining inspires people =(
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United Kingdom38056 Posts
On October 20 2011 19:38 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:36 pdd wrote:On October 20 2011 19:34 Zzoram wrote:On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast. You may be right. But if MVP thinks biomech is better than bio or mech, I'd tend to agree with MVP since he's such a TvT beast.
This was biomech back when almost everyone played biomech (marine/tank, some played pure bio still)
MKP tried to base trade once in the finals on meta iirc, and MVP shut it down simply because he was so far ahead at that point that he had an army both in his base and at MKP's.
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On October 20 2011 19:42 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:41 parazice wrote: why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"- just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio Progamer whining inspires people =(
People always whine about blizzard game for balancing and stuff, I think blizzard is doing a great job because it is not that one unit can win you the game with no eas. Oh snap there are marines? ;o
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MVP clearly shows that you can still own faces by going mech, top just sucks at going mech apparently. Mech rewards the better play and requieres a lot more skill than bio, that doesn't mean that anyone can go mech and just win over bio.
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On October 20 2011 19:41 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed. Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time). Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there.
Also marine tank won't cut it against mech after a certain point. That's basically why everyone still transitions into pure MMM right now. I've never seen anyone go marine tank into the midgame against mech.
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On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed. Its really map dependant. You could even see on that map, sC never pushed into the tighter space leading to TOP's base cause he would've just been slaughtered, but the fourth is sooo wide open that bio is really good. So on maps that have less open space, mech is at least viable. Most of the maps are really wide open though so mech is bad.
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On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Yeah, the point of playing mech if often waiting for a max army, but "modern" (I mean developed) mech now turret ring their main with +1 range turrets and has viking control so drops don't do that much damage anymore (the threat of drops is way higher vs marine tank than vs MMM). On a map like Terminus, even MVP plays bio, you can form ridiculous arcs and dive into tank lines, sC played that perfectly imo. I know you have to camp, but I just don't agree with your post that said that bio is way easier to play than mech, especially after that game where TOP didn't do anything but producing tanks and sieging them the whole game.
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... Someone buy Moletrap a set of sunglasses, so whenever he does his bad puns I know when to mute the stream
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On October 20 2011 19:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:41 Jehct wrote:On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed. Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time). Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there. Having 0 marines was SC playing smart/reactively, not really the norm. And the patch definitely changed how marines function in the mid-lategame in biomech v mech.
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On October 20 2011 19:42 IM_Megan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:42 Jehct wrote:On October 20 2011 19:41 parazice wrote: why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"- just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio Progamer whining inspires people =( People always whine about blizzard game for balancing and stuff, I think blizzard is doing a great job because it is not that one unit can win you the game with no eas. Oh snap there are marines? ;o .....
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On October 20 2011 19:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:41 Jehct wrote:On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed. Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time). Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there. Also marine tank won't cut it against mech after a certain point. That's basically why everyone still transitions into pure MMM right now. I've never seen anyone go marine tank into the midgame against mech. a. why would you say that hellions aren't "meant" to damage marines b. TOP did have a pretty good hellion count but it wandered into the bio and died before he tried to take his fourth. Maybe that made more of a difference to the outcome than was first thought.
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That's a brilliant idea, but only if it also affects marauders. Dustin?
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On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
The problem is that its the threat of happening but mech players are careful so it rarely actually happens. Its great tension to play mech in TvT but its kinda hard on the viewer to go hey look that tank moved and that tanked backed up and that other tank moved a different direction and the other tank backed up. In bio you can see the stuff happening and stuff happening creates excitement.
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I guess, if TOP loses today, at least he has a cool jacket.
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On October 20 2011 19:48 pdd wrote: I guess, if TOP loses today, at least he has a cool jacket.
same as Zenio XD
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Set map: Dual Sight
TOP as the Blue Terran on the bottom right position VS Taeja as the Red Terran on the upper right position.
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Just realized there was no toss playing today. Bleh.
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Mech SHOULD be a lot better on this map than Terminus, I think.
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United Kingdom38056 Posts
TOPs fangirl!
She's like Sase's cheer cannon.
Taeja fighting!~
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How have the TvTs been? If it's mech v mech I'm not wasting my time watching.
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