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On October 20 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote:
Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying. At what point did you think he had the gas to spare for PDD spamming ravens? He's going for tanks, they're gas intensive as is, but he has to hold back at the risk of losing his base, so he can't expand as much
Maybe because he had like 10 vikings and 4 banshees at all times? You can afford a raven in there.
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On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Jinro, do you think that armour upgrades would have made a difference? Or a more varied composition (more/fewer hellions? Ravens for PDD?) Or is it just marauders being bullshit?
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On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote:
Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying.
Yeah and maybe some BCs and more banshees mixed in would have been good too, I mean marauders can't hit air right?
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On October 20 2011 19:34 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed.
I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
On October 20 2011 19:36 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Jinro, do you think that armour upgrades would have made a difference? Or a more varied composition (more/fewer hellions? Ravens for PDD?) Or is it just marauders being bullshit?
I would of liked a BC switch to that compo, just due to the fact no vikings and minimal AA from SC, the banshee's were doing sick damage in most of the engangements
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SC had very nice target firing, the lack of buffer units hurt Top a lot.
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On October 20 2011 19:36 Eufouria wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote:
Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying. Yeah and maybe some BCs and more banshees mixed in would have been good too, I mean marauders can't hit air right?
No because like 8 3-3 marines would kill a BC and it's very very easy to switch to pure marine production. Against PDD + tanks, on the other hand, it's a much tougher problem.
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On October 20 2011 19:36 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:34 Zzoram wrote:On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
You may be right. But if MVP thinks biomech is better than bio or mech, I'd tend to agree with MVP since he's such a TvT beast.
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On October 20 2011 19:36 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote:
Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying. At what point did you think he had the gas to spare for PDD spamming ravens? He's going for tanks, they're gas intensive as is, but he has to hold back at the risk of losing his base, so he can't expand as much Maybe because he had like 10 vikings and 4 banshees at all times? You can afford a raven in there.
Yeah, I don't really get the point of so many early banshees in your air composition, especially against a pure bio force. They're not really that effective against Marauders.
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Bio isnt even that good and you can lose your entire army in 2 seconds if you're not careful as well.
Gotta be bitching about something in a LR without Protoss I guess.
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On October 20 2011 19:31 minhbq299 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:30 Jehct wrote:On October 20 2011 19:29 Eufouria wrote:On October 20 2011 19:28 Jehct wrote:On October 20 2011 19:26 Eufouria wrote:On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote:
this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank. What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder. And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were. No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units). wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders? one thing he should do is making raven for PDD, I do not know why mech terran have not done so yet, PDD can stop marauders for a period of time..
they absorb damage, this is perfectly why people that are noobs should not talk about strategies, unit composition or decision making : you do not understand what you see to the extent you think you do.
you're not playing rock paper scissor, buddy, but StarCraft.
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On October 20 2011 19:36 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:34 Zzoram wrote:On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
Also "bio" meant mostly marines for a long time; it took a little while for players to figure out that while marauders aren't really any better against tanks, they are far far better against hellions.
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I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 20 2011 19:38 secretary bird wrote:
Bio isnt even that good and you can lose your entire army in 2 seconds if you're not careful as well.
Gotta be bitching about something in a LR without Protoss I guess.
sC is very good bio user. He's up there with MKP, Polt in pure bio control and micro. There have been ton of people who've tried marauders versus tanks and then gotten destroyed because they couldn't position/micro well.
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On October 20 2011 19:34 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 19:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 20 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote:
rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that. Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game. Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base. So its camp or die. Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist. Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. MVP used a mix of tanks sieged in his base, some marines, and a ton of turrets IIRC. He just kept all the reinforcements he made as he pushed out in his main to defend it, he even lifted his natural CC into his main IIRC to protect it.
MVP is just the better player overall i guess
TvT is so interesting because people whine in bio vs mech
TvT will be similar to the other mirror matchup if everybody just go mech. and that will not happen as Blizzard always wanted to make bio and mech viable in the matchup.
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![[image loading]](http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/428339123.jpg)
Singing, coaching, drawing. Is there anything Cella can't do?
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On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
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why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"-
just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio
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Just woke up and it's nice to see sC doing well. He is one terran I don't mind in code S despite overcrowding. Rooting for sC and Lucky. Noblesse looks to have a rough day? He is extremely quick and smart usually.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vdyyP.jpg)
