Racial distribution in code S : Terran will lose 1 or 2, loses Keen and wins Gumiho. Protoss stays the same, loses Genius, Hongun and wins MC and Oz. Zerg wins 1 or 2, loses Zenio, wins Curious, Yugioh and possibly Lucky.
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
I am hoping for MVPsc and FXOLucky because FXO is a foreign owned team, and because sc recently switched to to MVP, which is my favorite team. sc is better than all these players without a doubt, but he has been sick a lot lately so...
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
I am hoping for MVPsc and FXOLucky because FXO is a foreign owned team, and because sc recently switched to to MVP, which is my favorite team. sc is better than all these players without a doubt, but he has been sick a lot lately so...
Maybe his TvZ...
But Teaja's and Top's TvT waaay outclass sC's and being in a terran dominated group sC will struggle especially after 2 surgeries... sC will probably be my least likely to get out of this group
And Teaja already 2-0ed him in Code A and then he got 2-0ed again by Gumiho only beating Select who is a foreigner
Looks like it will be a great night of games, I'm hoping Taeja and I think TOP might get through he has amazing macro in his games. Good luck to all of them!
Hope Taeja and TOP get through. TOP because no former Code A champion has yet dropped down (and TOP better not be the first one, especially given his macro capabilities) and Taeja because Taeja's a baller and can play pretty much every match-up.
I miss the zerg brutalizer that sC was during the finals of the LG Cinema 3D tournament TT I have no idea if Lucky can do this. Sadly the terrans will likely study his IPL3 games. Should be TOP for sure, then it'll depend on Lucky imo.
On October 20 2011 09:05 MrCon wrote: I miss the zerg brutalizer that sC was during the finals of the LG Cinema 3D tournament TT I have no idea if Lucky can do this. Sadly the terrans will likely study his IPL3 games. Should be TOP for sure, then it'll depend on Lucky imo.
I miss sC but with his health lately, I don't think he'll do well.
Taeja and TOP, though wouldn't mind or be surprised if Noblesse stays in. Would really like sC to advance but with his illness it would be pretty difficult. FXO has been on a roll lately so Lucky could do it again.
On October 20 2011 09:14 BarbieHsu wrote: Taeja's not so good to get unanimous approval as the best in this group.
Noblesse, Lucky.
Apparently you have not seen Taeja play....
He has dominated everything and has consistently been on the top of the Korean ELO. Also the majority of the games I see him lose are when he gets cheesed. He has one of the scariest macro games I have ever seen from a terran. I would not be surprised if he made it to at least the ro4 next season.
Hmm tough group. sC is very likely out of shape with his recent situations, though he did make it to the up and downs at the least. Lucky had some convincing ZvT's, though TOP and Taeja have shown to be quite solid players, so I will predict them. I can't see Noblesse making it out ahead, but maybe I'm wrong.
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
lol
I hope Lucky makes it out, if only so two Terrans don't advance.
haha, have you guys noticed that he's like the bane of slayers' terrans existence throughout IPL3? I get the feeling maybe he won't win, but he might make it so Taeja doesn't stay in Code S.
On October 20 2011 09:14 BarbieHsu wrote: Taeja's not so good to get unanimous approval as the best in this group.
Noblesse, Lucky.
Apparently you have not seen Taeja play....
He has dominated everything and has consistently been on the top of the Korean ELO. Also the majority of the games I see him lose are when he gets cheesed. He has one of the scariest macro games I have ever seen from a terran. I would not be surprised if he made it to at least the ro4 next season.
And Noblesse? He lost to Ensare you know.
Taeja is good but not that good. He pads his Elo and winrate by playing some decent and some terrible opponents. We all saw what happened this past season when he finally went up against elite talent. After all it's why he's in these up and down matches. Sure he's the favorite to win this group but it's hardly a given.
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
lol
I hope Lucky makes it out, if only so two Terrans don't advance.
Did you even see the games? He is smart but the only reason he won was because he took off so many games using all ins, because he got only SlayerS terrans and they all did mass hellion openers. He honsetly would've lost to Boxer in the first round if he didn't get that amazing baneling hit... I admit that the SlayerS terrans should've expanded their builds but Lucky is really easy to figure out. His ZvT really isn't that good and before his "Lucky" run at IPL his ZvT was nothing special.
Don't really care who gets through, but I think TOP and Taeja are the best among this group. Definitely wouldn't mind having Lucky in there though just to get rid of some more Terrans.
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
Well that's a liberal use of the term "crush" if I've ever heard any. It's probably the 2011's Fluke Run of the Year (with Rain winning the 2010 one).
He won in ways that generally nobody is going to fall for again because they'll know and pay attention if they have any sense in them.
hoping for sC but wouldn't bet money on him Taejas almost definitely getting out alive based on how he's been playing
Lucky is going to have to have godly luck in order to not get taken out. Luckily lucky gets lucky with roachs and banes so maybe luck luckily luck shdjshsb
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
lol
I hope Lucky makes it out, if only so two Terrans don't advance.
Also, with only having to prepare for one match-up, I'd be surprised if he wasn't a real fighting chance here. Also, all the Terrans tonight would have been focusing more so on their TvT than their TvZ.
Lucky looked really goo at IPL3. I can see him advancing =, as for to the other hmmm, I kinda want Top to advance, he showed really solid play last GSL , but Nobelesse and SC .. I can't decide T_T
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
lol
I hope Lucky makes it out, if only so two Terrans don't advance.
Obviously you can't take the wins away from him, but let's not pretend he showed inspiring play. Maybe he'll get through, but I don't see him as some upcoming ZvT specialist by any means.
Taeja is the most exciting player in this group as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully TOP doesn't fall either.
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Where he crushed through a bunch of great Terrans and got to the finals.
Well that's a liberal use of the term "crush" if I've ever heard any. It's probably the 2011's Fluke Run of the Year (with Rain winning the 2010 one).
He won in ways that generally nobody is going to fall for again because they'll know and pay attention if they have any sense in them.
I think Stephano takes the 2011 Fluke Run with Lucky being runner-up.
As much as I'd love the Terran count to decrease, I don't think Lucky's zvt has been strong enough lately to carry him past this group. I call Taeja and sc
Taeja and TOP. Though I think Noblesse, sC and maybe Lucky are future stars, Taeja has been doing so well in the Korean weeklies and TOP is a Code S runner up who didn't just have a lucky bracket.
That said. A recovered sC would be scary, Lucky might be on a roll and Noblesse is about on par with many other terrans in Code S!
Love Taeja's play, even though he got knocked out of the ESV Korean Weekly grand final already. For anyone who hasn't already seen it, watch this amazing reaper play by Taeja from last week's weekly.
Going with Top and Sc on this one, Sc has been getting better from his sickness and he was very promising, Top has the Finalist curse on him, i am sure he's good enough to get through today.
TaeJa and TOP have to be favourites given their solid TvTs, where as sC has really struggled with the matchup for quite some time. However, with many players favouring marine/tank again in TvT, that could help sC out since he was quite good at TvT during the Marine/tank phase.
Noblesse is a wildcard. No one is talking about him, but he was amazing in the GSTL final, albeit not in TvT. TvT might not be his best matchup, but he appears to be a player with immense potential and could pull through.
Lucky, well I don't really know. He won most of his ZvTs at IPL through roach/ling aggression, let's see how he performs if the game goes longer.
Noblesse is going to code A, you can mark that down now. sC...hes always had sick TvT and the hellion nerf makes his MMM even more viable, I gotta believe he's gonna contend for 3rd or 2nd. TOP and Taeja are the two favorites on paper, though Taeja hasn't been as impressive as he was. TOP was....not bad, but not impressive at all following his finals appearance. Lucky has been just monstrous recently. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he outright won this group. I think the difficulty for the Terrans in this group is that you don't stand a chance if your TvT isn't sharp, but whoever beats Lucky is the most likely to advance ( if anyone does =D )
I'm pretty sure that after the hammering Lucky gave the SlayerS' terrans with burrowed banelings at IPL they'll definitely have practiced against burrowed banelings, but the only certain thing in this group is that Taeja will get out I think.
On October 20 2011 09:14 BarbieHsu wrote: Taeja's not so good to get unanimous approval as the best in this group.
Noblesse, Lucky.
Apparently you have not seen Taeja play....
He has dominated everything and has consistently been on the top of the Korean ELO. Also the majority of the games I see him lose are when he gets cheesed. He has one of the scariest macro games I have ever seen from a terran. I would not be surprised if he made it to at least the ro4 next season.
And Noblesse? He lost to Ensare you know.
OFC...its a slayers terran..... but its sad most people dont know about his skills...i have this feeling that players have to win something or have to get hyped by artosis to be well known among foreigner viewers.... Taeja hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!
I was about to say that this group is so stacked, but I suppose the entire tournament is really stacked anyways. Though if TOP goes from 2nd place to knocked down to code A that would be... well, par for the course, really.
Edit: hey, I think I might live-report this if noone else wants to.
On October 20 2011 18:16 Lord_J wrote: Damn, TOP looks like a wreck.
I think he is more ashamed to be where he is than anything. Although on second looks maybe he is a bit under the weather health wise, i hope not because with all these TvTs he has to play he needs to be on his A game.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
On October 20 2011 18:30 Seditary wrote: Pretty good game by sC.
To be fair, that was a rather bad game from noblesse as well(Really 15~ scvs behind at any given point almost?) Its hard to judge when your opponent dosent make scvs
On October 20 2011 18:30 Seditary wrote: Pretty good game by sC.
To be fair, that was a rather bad game from noblesse as well(Really 15~ scvs behind at any given point almost?) Its hard to judge when your opponent dosent make scvs
Yeah Noblesse didn't play well but sC kept on top of everything he needed to and didn't fail anything, so I said pretty good instead of brilliant or excellent etc.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
On October 20 2011 18:19 Treadmill wrote: Game One Map: Xel'Naga Fortress Noblesse vs sC Noblesse spawns in the bottom left position sC spawns in the top left position
3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
On October 20 2011 18:21 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 3:00 sC opens gas first into a quick factory while Noblesse goes for a standard 12 rax 13 gas.
5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00[/b Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
[b]6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
On October 20 2011 18:22 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 5:00
sC gets his starport, going for banshees, while Noblesse gets his second gas and a later starport.
6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
On October 20 2011 18:23 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 6:30 Both players are getting banshees though only Noblesses is getting cloak. sC puts down a command center.
9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
On October 20 2011 18:25 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 9:00 Noblesse gets his own CC and cancels cloak, though he forces a raven by researching Caduceus reactor. The banshees have circled around but not done any damage. sC is getting pre-ignitor while sC has gotten siege mode.
11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
On October 20 2011 18:27 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 11:30 sC is still building only hellions and reactored vikings. Noblesse is also going pure mech but started with tanks rather than hellions. He also is down 35-44 SCVs and behind in vikings. sC is 20 supply ahead though Noblesse is up in tanks.
14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
On October 20 2011 18:29 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 14:00 sC is pushing out but only taking position in the middle of the map. Both platers have siege mode, sC tries to siege the low ground but Noblesse didn't build any vulnerable buildings. sC throws down a third, Noblesses adds a Thor and starts +1 mech weapons.
16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
On October 20 2011 18:30 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 16:00 Both players getting thors and +1. Noblesse is still down 25 supply but he pushes out. sC backs down, no major engagements so far. Noblesse gets a few hellions into sC's natural and kills s few SCVs.
17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
On Oct 20 2011 05:44 pdd wrote: I didn't watch Lucky's IPL games, but how did he beat MMA, Ryung and Boxer again?
Overall he played much better but he also had killer burrowed baneling bombs.
That game- Lucky went for an early end and failed. End of story. Don't listen to "level of play" crap. He tried to do an early bust and it failed. The game ended there despite the replay ending several minutes later.
On October 20 2011 18:43 KiNGxXx wrote: OMG sick micro!
But why didn't he kill the hatch?
He saw the huge cluster of Overlords in front of the natural and decided that supply blocking him for the next year would be better than killing off his mining when he couldn't produce units anyways. >.>
On Oct 20 2011 05:44 pdd wrote: I didn't watch Lucky's IPL games, but how did he beat MMA, Ryung and Boxer again?
Overall he played much better but he also had killer burrowed baneling bombs.
That game- Lucky went for an early end and failed. End of story. Don't listen to "level of play" crap. He tried to do an early bust and it failed. The game ended there despite the replay ending several minutes later.
Lucky DID have burrow, though. I don't know whether he didnt use it or whether Taeja just scanned well.
On October 20 2011 18:44 Silidons wrote: i feel like taeja's macro isn't that great..3 bases and he's barely reinforcing his marines wtf?
Erm.... he put his 3rd base up when he pushed out the 3rd time (with tanks). Did you even see his supply suddenly shoot up by 20-30 all of a sudden, even before his attack came? That almost never happens in a TvZ, where the Terran has a supply lead.
On October 20 2011 18:45 Pandemona wrote: God dammit please dont watch that game if you didn't that was awful T.T
I thought it was nice. Taeja pretty much totally schooled Lucky and showed some neat decision making and micro.
He held a bane bust...and decided to run into the zerg with un stimmed marines about 3 minutes after so the zerg would probably still be on Ling Bane...and he didnt have stim...ended up losing all his marines to the banelings with no micro......Then he though ah best get some Seige tanks upgrade and take a 3rd..which is how he won the game, but Lucky still had no clue what to do after his failed bane bust attempt and Taeja just beat him with Marine Seige....I think gold terrans beat zergs like that ".
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
it always comes out ahead in a situation like that, cc first + 12 banelings needed to bust down the rax equals dead zerg
On Oct 20 2011 05:44 pdd wrote: I didn't watch Lucky's IPL games, but how did he beat MMA, Ryung and Boxer again?
Overall he played much better but he also had killer burrowed baneling bombs.
That game- Lucky went for an early end and failed. End of story. Don't listen to "level of play" crap. He tried to do an early bust and it failed. The game ended there despite the replay ending several minutes later.
On October 20 2011 18:44 Silidons wrote: i feel like taeja's macro isn't that great..3 bases and he's barely reinforcing his marines wtf?
did you see the supply at all, the baneling burst is what cost lucky the game, too much gas spent and delayed tech vs a cc first terran.
Lucky was still in the game after he held off the unstimmed marine push. He didn't research baneling speed quick enough and that cost him the game. He was fully saturated in both bases, and he droned up like crazy after that. He was still in it.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
There's no way. Taeja still had a 2nd bunker if you didn't see, still had like 20 marines left over, and going in with 4 or so banelings after he takes out one of the bunkers and some lings won't be enough. When you have that many marines available after the wall goes down with 2 bunkers your reinforcements aren't gonna do jack and he's just gonna rewall if there's a lull in his attack.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
it always comes out ahead in a situation like that, cc first + 12 banelings needed to bust down the rax equals dead zerg
No. If he kills the bunker (which he had the banes to do) as well as the 3 rax then the terrans ability to reinforce is crushed (and mass ling beats mass marine in cost, depending on upgrades).
On October 20 2011 18:45 Pandemona wrote: God dammit please dont watch that game if you didn't that was awful T.T
I thought it was nice. Taeja pretty much totally schooled Lucky and showed some neat decision making and micro.
He held a bane bust...and decided to run into the zerg with un stimmed marines about 3 minutes after so the zerg would probably still be on Ling Bane...and he didnt have stim...ended up losing all his marines to the banelings with no micro......Then he though ah best get some Seige tanks upgrade and take a 3rd..which is how he won the game, but Lucky still had no clue what to do after his failed bane bust attempt and Taeja just beat him with Marine Seige....I think gold terrans beat zergs like that ".
He pushed out with those marines to stop the only possible way Lucky could get back into the game - over-droning. It wasn't a mistake at all, it was part of why he had such an easy time winning the game.
Besides, he was already getting that third base, and he would have won without the tanks anyway.
On Oct 20 2011 05:44 pdd wrote: I didn't watch Lucky's IPL games, but how did he beat MMA, Ryung and Boxer again?
Overall he played much better but he also had killer burrowed baneling bombs.
That game- Lucky went for an early end and failed. End of story. Don't listen to "level of play" crap. He tried to do an early bust and it failed. The game ended there despite the replay ending several minutes later.
This. Game was over after the failed bust.
Nah, Taeja threw a way a bunch of units so it was kind of even from there.
The only reason why I hate the Up/Downs is the sheer amount of breaks there seems to be. :S
On October 20 2011 18:31 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 17:00 Noblesse decides to push but sC's much larger army destroys his. Noblesse gg's shortly after. sC wins.
Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
There's no way. Taeja still had a 2nd bunker if you didn't see, still had like 20 marines left over, and going in with 4 or so banelings after he takes out one of the bunkers and some lings won't be enough. When you have that many marines available after the wall goes down with 2 bunkers your reinforcements aren't gonna do jack and he's just gonna rewall if there's a lull in his attack.
The second bunker was in a corner where Lucky never needed to engage. The 4 banelings he had could have killed the main bunker (he was 1 bane away) as well as 5-6 marines - flooded speedling is then enough to deny mining at the nat, and he can just continue to reinforce. He bungled the execution horribly.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
It should come out ahead with unstimed rines but with proper micro stimed rins can do quite well ageist ling bane baring them getting boxed into a corner.
On October 20 2011 18:34 Treadmill wrote: [quote] Game Two Map: Bel& Taeja vs Lucky The slayers terran spawns on the left side. The FXO zerg spawns on the right side.
3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
On Oct 20 2011 05:44 pdd wrote: I didn't watch Lucky's IPL games, but how did he beat MMA, Ryung and Boxer again?
Overall he played much better but he also had killer burrowed baneling bombs.
That game- Lucky went for an early end and failed. End of story. Don't listen to "level of play" crap. He tried to do an early bust and it failed. The game ended there despite the replay ending several minutes later.
This. Game was over after the failed bust.
Nah, Taeja threw a way a bunch of units so it was kind of even from there.
The only reason why I hate the Up/Downs is the sheer amount of breaks there seems to be. :S
Even after taeja lost all those marines he was still ahead. He had his production up, and Lucky's tech was just bad because he went for drones over lair. It's not a "if lucky had done X" instead situation because you can't drone and tech at the same time after you fail so hard.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
It should come out ahead with unstimed rines but with proper micro stimed rins can do quite well ageist ling bane baring them getting boxed into a corner.
With combat shields & stim it can work, but at that point in the game you can only have 1 of the two (and he had combat shields). Even if you go stim first, lings just crush marines cost for cost. You just need to knock out the main bunker.
On October 20 2011 18:35 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 3:00 Both players opt for fast expansions at 15 supply, before other tech. Lucky goes for an extractor next while Taeja gts up his barracks.
6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
On October 20 2011 18:45 Pandemona wrote: God dammit please dont watch that game if you didn't that was awful T.T
I thought it was nice. Taeja pretty much totally schooled Lucky and showed some neat decision making and micro.
He held a bane bust...and decided to run into the zerg with un stimmed marines about 3 minutes after so the zerg would probably still be on Ling Bane...and he didnt have stim...ended up losing all his marines to the banelings with no micro......Then he though ah best get some Seige tanks upgrade and take a 3rd..which is how he won the game, but Lucky still had no clue what to do after his failed bane bust attempt and Taeja just beat him with Marine Seige....I think gold terrans beat zergs like that ".
Taeja actually split all his Marines fairly well, given he didn't have Stim. It was very cost efficient, he traded ~24 Marines for 2 Overlords and ~18 Banelings. That's well ahead for the Terran player. >.>
On October 20 2011 18:37 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 6:00 Taeja gets a second barracks while Lucky gets his spawning pool and researches speed once its done. Taeja adds 2 more barracks, going up to 4, and starts to add gas. Lucky gets another gas and drones.
7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
On October 20 2011 18:47 Itsmedudeman wrote: if lucky's plan is to try and baneling bust terrans on zerg favored maps then he's in for a rough time
His execution was totally off, if he had engaged better he could have killed the bunker and taken out enough marines to do serious damage with a second wave. Ling baneling is something pure marine should never come out ahead against.
There's no way. Taeja still had a 2nd bunker if you didn't see, still had like 20 marines left over, and going in with 4 or so banelings after he takes out one of the bunkers and some lings won't be enough. When you have that many marines available after the wall goes down with 2 bunkers your reinforcements aren't gonna do jack and he's just gonna rewall if there's a lull in his attack.
The second bunker was in a corner where Lucky never needed to engage. The 4 banelings he had could have killed the main bunker (he was 1 bane away) as well as 5-6 marines - flooded speedling is then enough to deny mining at the nat, and he can just continue to reinforce. He bungled the execution horribly.
he had more marines than lucky had zerglings. Just rewatch the game and you can see for yourself. There's a reason why it failed HORRIBLY and wasn't even remotely cloes, and that's because he went 15 CC into 4 rax and had a ton of marines. He's not gonna take out taeja's army with that.
On October 20 2011 18:38 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 7:30 Lucky gets a baneling nest and builds a huge round of zerglings. Taeja has a wall of barracks and bunkers.
9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
On October 20 2011 18:58 Fyzar wrote: Has Noblesse v Taeja been played, or is the order in the OP wrong?
Order probably changed because Noblesse and sC are teammates, and they change the order so that teammates play first and can't throw a match later on to let another teammate through.
On October 20 2011 18:39 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 9:00 Baneling Bust! The barracks wall goes down but the bunker behind it survives. Taega rebuilds his wall and gets a third CC. Lucky gets himself a third base.
12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
On October 20 2011 18:41 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 12:00 Taeja getting his starport and starts researching stimpack finally (he got combat shields first). He pushes across the map with his marines to try to cancel Lucky's third. Without stim, Taeja's marines die to the slings and slow banes and the hatch survives. Lucky starts his lair and Taeja start to add siege tanks.
14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
On October 20 2011 19:01 Pandemona wrote: ScSc really needs apply pressure fast...I mean he lets a Mech build get to strong his marines are going to die?
I guess he building for a timing but he has a narrow window...closing fast in my books
On October 20 2011 18:43 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 14:30 Taeja pushes again with stim and medivacs. Lucky catches him with his lings but Taeja picks up into his medivacs and gets away wiht most of his marines. Lucky builds a ton of ling/bane though he still doesnt have speed. He is building a spire.
Taeja pushes and kills Lucky's army with good micro. Marines run rampant through the zerg base.
16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
On October 20 2011 18:58 Fyzar wrote: Has Noblesse v Taeja been played, or is the order in the OP wrong?
Order probably changed because Noblesse and sC are teammates, and they change the order so that teammates play first and can't throw a match later on to let another teammate through.
On October 20 2011 18:44 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 16:00 Taeja didnt finish off Lucky's third. A reinforcement round of ling bane forces Taeja to lift off again. Taeja gets a blue mineral third and pushes Lucky's third again.
17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
On October 20 2011 18:46 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 17:30 Taeja kills Lucky's natural (not his third, whoops) with a few tanks and a lot of marines and medivacs. His position is too strong, Lucky tries uselessly to break it, fails, and GGs.
Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
On October 20 2011 18:54 Treadmill wrote: [quote] Game 3 Map: Terminus RE sC vs TOP TOP spawns in the 6 o'clock sC spawns in the 3 o'clock
2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
SC understands Bio pretty well. Overcoming some pretty significant advantages in the early midgame which should really put mech in a position where it doesn't lose. Nice.
On October 20 2011 19:09 artrea wrote: 3/3 rauders not bad
But they've only been 2/2 till now T___T
-=-=-=-=-
Credit to sC for getting a lot of nice engagements though, he's never been caught with his marauders in a bad spot when TOP's sieged an area. Always engaging with a great spread.
On October 20 2011 18:55 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 2:30 Both players get 12-rax but no gas at 13, 1-rax expo for both probably.
4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes tryiung to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
On October 20 2011 19:09 BrosephBrostar wrote: Sure hope Blizzard is going to remove marauders in HotS.
And replace them with a marine/marauder hybrid?
A mineral only unit that does the same, but can also be repaired as well as healed by medivacs. Also it can jump cliffs and 1 shots destructible rocks.
On October 20 2011 18:56 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 4:30 The builds continue to mirror each other. They both drop their CC's though TOP's is at his natural whereas sC's is in his base; TOP adds 2 gas but sC adds only 1 and 2 more rax.
6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
Top needed ravens or more hellions to buffer while the tanks and bashees do damage. Tank Banshee won't cut it, you need something to buffer your tanks.
On October 20 2011 18:57 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 6:00 TOP gets an earlier factory, sC is going bio-heavy with a tech lab. Top addas a reactor to his barracks, sC researches combat shields. TOP starts his starport.
8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
On October 20 2011 19:10 Hassybaby wrote: Dammit, I turn away for like 3 mins, what the hell happened?
fake drop in main, into rapes all his tanks
Fake? It was 4 (5?) fully loaded medivacs O_O
Sooooo a doom drop into a mass snipe of tanks because TOP forgot hellions?
Pretty much. SC reinforced with marauder only to bust the tank line, pretty smart as marines do nothing in that position (though banshees should theoretically rape you eventually).
It is so difficult to have "perfect" mech play, the rush distance is so long, unless you can raped all the drop, bio still have better chance and less skill required to win than mech.
On October 20 2011 19:14 Asha` wrote: That was pretty sick, sC spreading his main force and flanking with the force he sent to 9'o'clock. Ended up hitting with about a 270 degree concave.
On October 20 2011 18:59 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 8:00 TOP starts to get a banshee and cloak. sC has built his factory and started stim. sC pushes witha lot of marines but pulls back when he sees TOP's bunker.
10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
TOP has no economy and map control he cant do a massive tech switch and is just slowly dying SC had this in bag he can just continue to trade army and TOP can do nothing about that
its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
On October 20 2011 19:00 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 10:00 TOP has stopped building marines and is researching pre-ignitor. His banshee does some damage but sC has turrets and scans saved. sC is going for medivacs before any factory units as well as a viking for the banshees. TOp puts down a third CC and is up 15 SCVs between harass and better macro.
12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
with his history of terrible engagements top really shouldn't be playing mech, marine tank seems more suitable for him
i wondered about this in the gsl finals, on that belshir beach game mvp kept breaking top's pushes, even though he (mvp) was quite far behind, but it seems top just keeps unsieging all of his tanks and gets caught
SC showing an incredible understanding of bio v mech. No air superiority + a huge tank count? Suicide all your marines + medivacs so your marauder count can overwhelm. Simple but genius. Then just sprinkled marine reinforcements to deal with any banshee counters. It's not like BC transitions are good against 3/3 marines when you're at an eco disadvantage.
Hey Jinro, do you think it would have been better if TOP had just made a bigger switch when his 4th went up? Or just a matter of having more hellions around?
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
On October 20 2011 19:16 Lord_J wrote: I couldn't tell if sC played really well that game or TOP played poorly.
Top play superb well at the beginning, ahead the whole game, bases, army wise, supply, but the drop make the game equal, and when he move out in the map, half of his tank unsiege vs mass marauder + nice concave, that big engagement cost him the game.
On October 20 2011 19:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Fucking retarded.
I know its stupid that marauders call kill even numbers of tanks, but do you not think that TOP should have had more hellions and less staggered tanks?
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
it's kinda ridiculous to see 20 tanks get killed by a bunch of guys in suits
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
On October 20 2011 19:01 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 12:00 TOp is definitely going mech. Both players clear the rocks at their thirds but TOP's orbital is done when sC puts his CC down.
14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
On October 20 2011 19:16 Lord_J wrote: I couldn't tell if sC played really well that game or TOP played poorly.
Top play superb well at the beginning, ahead the whole game, bases, army wise, supply, but the drop make the game equal, and when he move out in the map, half of his tank unsiege vs mass marauder + nice concave, that big engagement cost him the game.
The drop was actually really cost ineffective, it just let him switch to a better composition.
On October 20 2011 19:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Fucking retarded.
why? becouse the player that was sitting on his ass and couldn't handle drops didn't win? or becouse he did not focus fire with his tanks so they did minimal dmg? or becouse he didnt even send a single banshe or hellion to north bases which were completly undefended
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
Lol. I guess you didn't see sC outplay TOP?
I sure as hell didn't see sC play impressively there.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
To be fair he did a lot more than a move and his decisions were a lot better than TOP's. What more do you want bio to have to do?
Edit: I agree though, marauders are stupid as fuck. TOP just threw that game away. Tanks can be 200/100 and you'll still lose without hellion support.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
That's...hmm i never thought about the cost of tanks....
That's a really good point considering their vulnerability
On October 20 2011 19:03 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 14:00 TOP is getting a sizeable mech army. sC has yet to attack with his slowly increasing bio force. 1-1 is almost finished for sC and TOP is getting +1 mech. Top is ringing his base with turrets and sensor towers.
17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Noblesse goes for a barrack first placed next to his command center.
Lucky sended a scout to cross position see's the base of nobless at 2:15 and expands at 2:20. Followed up with 3 more drones and then takes gas on 2:39.
Nobless is making one marine and an orbital command, second supply beeing made.
Lucky made 1 more drone and then a spawning pull, putting 3 in gas.
Nobless expands at the natural at 3:35, a marine is scouting around his base/natural.
TOP just played bad. It's not about which is easier between mech and bio, if you play mech well and don't make huge mistakes (yeah go figure sieging and watching where their army is important) you won't lose engagements so badly.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
god i love you jinro. people dont realize how broken the marauder is
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
Lol. I guess you didn't see sC outplay TOP?
Ermmmmmmm......When where? I saw mass mauraders some how beat mass seige tanks, where seige tanks cost way more, and the upgrades was 3-0 vs 3-3.....I saw top stay in a game for an extra 10 minutes by his macro being so good alone due to being able to make so many tanks helions and banshees to keep him alive whilst SC was making 100-25 units from rax.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
You mean like Zerglings or Zealots?
It would have been fine but Top made sooo many mistakes. He was 70 supply or more below Sc after the time he pushed out for no reason and lost 20 tanks. After that, you're going to die. SC was way up in bases and outplayed TOP completely.
On October 20 2011 19:05 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
I don't agree with this Taeja , Top , sC are pretty close in skill and if TOP's really tired from travelling he's in troubl.e
On October 20 2011 19:16 Onox wrote: Well that was a disgusting game to watch
Yeh i pretty much agree. Tops macro was so good it kept him in that game 10 minutes longer than he should of been, Top should of went into a BC transition i think or maybe just double the Banshee number because they were doing sick damage to a very light marine force.
I hope Top gets out of this group he deserves to and is the better player than any of the people in this group -_-
Sc has always been a cheesy type terran with his 2rax only strat vs zergs -_-
Lol. I guess you didn't see sC outplay TOP?
I sure as hell didn't see sC play impressively there.
Yeah, but he still outplayed TOP.
(and this is coming from a guy who likes mech more than bio)
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
After this post I wonder, are there any people who still want the marauder in the game ;>?
I know that protosses like myself hate it terribly, terrans apaprently hate it because of bio vs mech, and zergs hate everything ;>.
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
On October 20 2011 19:08 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
That's...hmm i never thought about the cost of tanks....
That's a really good point considering their vulnerability
On October 20 2011 19:09 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
After this post I wonder, are there any people who still want the marauder in the game ;>?
I know that protosses like myself hate it terribly, terrans apaprently hate it because of bio vs mech, and zergs hate everything ;>.
Hope it gets removed.
I really don't see the problem with the marauder.
I'm not going to explain in here as I don't want it to turn into a balance discussion, but without the marauder Bio would be impossible in TvP and TvT.
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Noblesse goes for a barrack first placed next to his command center.
Lucky sended a scout to cross position see's the base of nobless at 2:15 and expands at 2:20. Followed up with 3 more drones and then takes gas on 2:39.
Nobless is making one marine and an orbital command, second supply beeing made.
Lucky made 1 more drone and then a spawning pull, putting 3 in gas.
Nobless expands at the natural at 3:35, a marine is scouting around his base/natural.
Nobless spots the spawningpool on 3:52.
8:00:
Lucky uses his first 100 gas speed, then pulls them off gas.
Nobless is making two more barracks and a techlab on the barrack that was already made. still on one gas.
Command center finishes at 5:20 and is beeing made into an orbital.
Lucky sended a ling that gets killed at 5:33 but saw the natural. Nobless trys to scout the main of lucky but gets denied by a queen pulls back to the natural.
Lucky is making 26 zerglings.
Nobless is making one bunker, it did not finish intime.
nobless pulling scv and the lings take down the marines and scv.
Lucky is making a lair and droning up taking his second gas.
Combat shield finished for nobless at 7:15
Lucky keeps on poking the main abit, but a bunker is up.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
You mean like Zerglings or Zealots?
It would have been fine but Top made sooo many mistakes. He was 70 supply or more below Sc after the time he pushed out for no reason and lost 20 tanks. After that, you're going to die. SC was way up in bases and outplayed TOP completely.
Actually that not outplayed much, top have more bases eventually, I just think that Mech is stronger when playing perfect, but it is so difficult to play perfect in this game. But agreeing with Jinro, MMM is fucking easy to play, a move
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
After this post I wonder, are there any people who still want the marauder in the game ;>?
I know that protosses like myself hate it terribly, terrans apaprently hate it because of bio vs mech, and zergs hate everything ;>.
Hope it gets removed.
Marauders can't be removed without major changes . TvP would be impossible without Mauraders . Mech just sucks in TvP.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
After this post I wonder, are there any people who still want the marauder in the game ;>?
I know that protosses like myself hate it terribly, terrans apaprently hate it because of bio vs mech, and zergs hate everything ;>.
Hope it gets removed.
I really don't see the problem with the marauder.
I'm not going to explain in here as I don't want it to turn into a balance discussion, but without the marauder Bio would be impossible in TvP and TvT.
Marauders are fine from a balance perspective. From a gameplay perspective they are boring as shit (similar to the colossus, but worse).
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
god i love you jinro. people dont realize how broken the marauder is
On October 20 2011 19:11 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
On October 20 2011 19:25 Goibon wrote: Turn your head for 3 minutes and you come back to see a Terran with an expo and no wall and Lings all up in his grill. The hell is going on?
Lmao dude i had same reaction was typing in LR and just saw like 12 lings running around a main. Man today is getting crazyyy
On October 20 2011 19:23 Qikz wrote: Also, it was 3-3 Marauders against 0-0 tanks.
The tanks should not have won those battles.
No, it was 2-2 against 2-0, but that's besides the point.
There's no point in whining when you have half your siege tanks unsieged and lose an engagement when your opponent micros and engages better than you. Watch MVP vs. Ganzi on TD. MVP gets heavily pressured but retains his army and is able to crush ganzi's army because he actually moves across the map well.
On October 20 2011 19:12 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
10:00 Noblesse gets his factory, Lucky gets baneling speed a spire and a macro hatch, but no thrid yet. Noblesse also gets stim and a starport. Workers are 32-59.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Qikz wrote: Also, it was 3-3 Marauders against 0-0 tanks.
The tanks should not have won those battles.
what 3-0 tank. when the engagement happen it was 2-0 vs 2-2, and you did not expected tank to be 2-2 at their cost are you?, I mean marauder is 100 min 25 GAS, and tank is 150 min 125 GAS?
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
After this post I wonder, are there any people who still want the marauder in the game ;>?
I know that protosses like myself hate it terribly, terrans apaprently hate it because of bio vs mech, and zergs hate everything ;>.
Hope it gets removed.
Nah I love Marauders as a zerg It's the Tank I have problems with XD
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
You mean like Zerglings or Zealots?
It would have been fine but Top made sooo many mistakes. He was 70 supply or more below Sc after the time he pushed out for no reason and lost 20 tanks. After that, you're going to die. SC was way up in bases and outplayed TOP completely.
and he pushes with only 20 tanks without much support else where, and didn't have the best positioning of those tanks cramping everything together.
since then SC has complete map control and limit TOP's economy. SC did what he need to do by trading tanks with massing bio, it is obvious TOP will never keep up in production and will slowly starve to death.
if TOP would have kept those 20 tanks at home and have a better positioned siege line defence, things might have been better.
it's not like TOP play superbly perfect and still loses to easy to control bio, far from that
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
god i love you jinro. people dont realize how broken the marauder is
protoss know, trust me...
but really top could have played more carefully
World would be a better place with better mech and marauders not being in game, that way we could see mech in PvT instead of bio =/ Really hate blizzards game design that bio have to be viable....
On October 20 2011 19:23 Qikz wrote: Also, it was 3-3 Marauders against 0-0 tanks.
The tanks should not have won those battles.
No, it was 2-2 against 2-0, but that's besides the point.
There's no point in whining when you don't half your siege tanks unsieged and lose an engagement when your opponent micros and engages better than you. Watch MVP vs. Ganzi on TD. MVP gets heavily pressured but retains his army and is able to crush ganzi's army because he actually moves across the map well.
Fair point on the upgrades, but yeah as you say TOP didn't play mech too well there. MVP played it perfectly that game. ^^
On October 20 2011 19:23 Qikz wrote: Also, it was 3-3 Marauders against 0-0 tanks.
The tanks should not have won those battles.
No, it was 2-2 against 2-0, but that's besides the point.
There's no point in whining when you don't half your siege tanks unsieged and lose an engagement when your opponent micros and engages better than you. Watch MVP vs. Ganzi on TD. MVP gets heavily pressured but retains his army and is able to crush ganzi's army because he actually moves across the map well.
You can also watch Clide beat MMA with 1-0 tanks vs 3-3 bio on Terminus for an example of what happens when one guy plays solid mech and the other guys bio isn't as good as efficient as sC's.
===
Lucky in an amazing position after that first ling aggression.
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Noblesse goes for a barrack first placed next to his command center.
Lucky sended a scout to cross position see's the base of nobless at 2:15 and expands at 2:20. Followed up with 3 more drones and then takes gas on 2:39.
Nobless is making one marine and an orbital command, second supply beeing made.
Lucky made 1 more drone and then a spawning pull, putting 3 in gas.
Nobless expands at the natural at 3:35, a marine is scouting around his base/natural.
Nobless spots the spawningpool on 3:52.
8:00:
Lucky uses his first 100 gas speed, then pulls them off gas.
Nobless is making two more barracks and a techlab on the barrack that was already made. still on one gas.
Command center finishes at 5:20 and is beeing made into an orbital.
Lucky sended a ling that gets killed at 5:33 but saw the natural. Nobless trys to scout the main of lucky but gets denied by a queen pulls back to the natural.
Lucky is making 26 zerglings.
Nobless is making one bunker, it did not finish intime.
nobless pulling scv and the lings take down the marines and scv.
Lucky is making a lair and droning up taking his second gas.
Combat shield finished for nobless at 7:15
Lucky keeps on poking the main abit, but a bunker is up.
nobless start stim research at 7:45.
12:00:
Lucky baneling nest finished, gets a spire after that.
Nobless still has it's natural, making a factory and keeps on making marine on 3 barracks with a techlab.
lucky research baneling speed at 9:19 and trys to take down the rocks of his 3rd.
Nobless is making one engineering bay and a starport.
Lucky has a macro hatch in his main, and has both eyes and his overlord are nicely spread out.
Lucky take a 3th base at the center right of the map.
lucky see's marine pushing out for nobless to the left upper watch tower and makes 10 banelings and 12 more lings in production.
Muta's are out on the map, harashing the natural, taking down a nice amouth of scv, nobless trys to defend with marines but lucky engages.
Nobless pulls more marines and lucky pulls the muta's back.
Nobless pulled his marine back of the bottom left watch tower to the main.
On October 20 2011 19:05 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 17:00 TOP is getting a fourth CC, sC starts 2/2 and still isnt building tanks. TOP decides to push out to his fourth with his large mech army. He also adds 2 more starports and gets Hi-Sec Auto Tracking. He builds a planetary at his fourth. sC is still passive on 3 base while TOP addsa a fifth and sixth CC. Both players are maxed.
20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
IMO it should be standard to cross pos scout on Taldarim... Your ovvie will scout another main, and you will find proxy cheese 100% of the time. No advantage to normal scout.
On October 20 2011 19:13 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
10:00 Noblesse gets his factory, Lucky gets baneling speed a spire and a macro hatch, but no thrid yet. Noblesse also gets stim and a starport. Workers are 32-59.
12:30 Lucky getting 7 mutas and builds a third at the remote 3:00 base. Luck still spending a lot of gas on banelings, but Noblesse has very little to defend against the relatively few mutalisks. Luck gets another base at his normal third an is pushing out wihth his ling/bane. Noblesse does not have siege.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
On October 20 2011 19:15 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
10:00 Noblesse gets his factory, Lucky gets baneling speed a spire and a macro hatch, but no thrid yet. Noblesse also gets stim and a starport. Workers are 32-59.
12:30 Lucky getting 7 mutas and builds a third at the remote 3:00 base. Luck still spending a lot of gas on banelings, but Noblesse has very little to defend against the relatively few mutalisks. Luck gets another base at his normal third an is pushing out wihth his ling/bane. Noblesse does not have siege.
14:30 Lucky runs in with his large army, Noblesse doesn't stand much of a chance without siege. huge baneling hit takes out all the SCVs at the expansion, though Lucky is pushed out for now. Noblesse goes for a desperation push with a tiny force.
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Noblesse goes for a barrack first placed next to his command center.
Lucky sended a scout to cross position see's the base of nobless at 2:15 and expands at 2:20. Followed up with 3 more drones and then takes gas on 2:39.
Nobless is making one marine and an orbital command, second supply beeing made.
Lucky made 1 more drone and then a spawning pull, putting 3 in gas.
Nobless expands at the natural at 3:35, a marine is scouting around his base/natural.
Nobless spots the spawningpool on 3:52.
8:00:
Lucky uses his first 100 gas speed, then pulls them off gas.
Nobless is making two more barracks and a techlab on the barrack that was already made. still on one gas.
Command center finishes at 5:20 and is beeing made into an orbital.
Lucky sended a ling that gets killed at 5:33 but saw the natural. Nobless trys to scout the main of lucky but gets denied by a queen pulls back to the natural.
Lucky is making 26 zerglings.
Nobless is making one bunker, it did not finish intime.
nobless pulling scv and the lings take down the marines and scv.
Lucky is making a lair and droning up taking his second gas.
Combat shield finished for nobless at 7:15
Lucky keeps on poking the main abit, but a bunker is up.
nobless start stim research at 7:45.
12:00:
Lucky baneling nest finished, gets a spire after that.
Nobless still has it's natural, making a factory and keeps on making marine on 3 barracks with a techlab.
lucky research baneling speed at 9:19 and trys to take down the rocks of his 3rd.
Nobless is making one engineering bay and a starport.
Lucky has a macro hatch in his main, and has both eyes and his overlord are nicely spread out.
Lucky take a 3th base at the center right of the map.
lucky see's marine pushing out for nobless to the left upper watch tower and makes 10 banelings and 12 more lings in production.
Muta's are out on the map, harashing the natural, taking down a nice amouth of scv, nobless trys to defend with marines but lucky engages.
Nobless pulls more marines and lucky pulls the muta's back.
Nobless pulled his marine back of the bottom left watch tower to the main.
lucky getting a 4rd at his 3rd natural.
12:45 lings/baneling arive at the natural, the banelings kill al the scv but a few marines/tanks hold it off.
Lucky has a total of 37 scv killed.
Lucky is looking in a great shape, nobless pushes out with 3 tanks 2 medvacs and 20 marines, but lucky is making 19 banelings and has 26 lings in production.
nobless at the natural ramp at 14:20, lucky decies to attack it, banelings go to the marines and the muta/ling clearing up the tank.
Nobless loses his army and decides to GG the game.
On October 20 2011 19:16 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
10:00 Noblesse gets his factory, Lucky gets baneling speed a spire and a macro hatch, but no thrid yet. Noblesse also gets stim and a starport. Workers are 32-59.
12:30 Lucky getting 7 mutas and builds a third at the remote 3:00 base. Luck still spending a lot of gas on banelings, but Noblesse has very little to defend against the relatively few mutalisks. Luck gets another base at his normal third an is pushing out wihth his ling/bane. Noblesse does not have siege.
14:30 Lucky runs in with his large army, Noblesse doesn't stand much of a chance without siege. huge baneling hit takes out all the SCVs at the expansion, though Lucky is pushed out for now. Noblesse goes for a desperation push with a tiny force.
On October 20 2011 19:08 Treadmill wrote: [quote] 20:30 sC going for a big drop. Top defnds with a large group of banshees and vikings, picks off the marines but the marauders do a lot of damage before the banshees can finish them off. TOP also getting building armour and is remaxed, sC is not. sC charges up to TOP while he is unsieged and trades most of his bio for most of TOP's tanks, sC gets a fourth.
23:00 sC is getting +3/+3, TOP only getting +3 weapons. sC is up in supply. TOP is harassing with hellions, sC charges up to TOP's reduced tank line and shreds it with marauders, he also kills the planetary at the fourth.
25:00 sC tries to push all the way into TOP's base but is finally repulsed. TOP has an unscouted base at the 9 o'clock main. Hes trying to reproduce his tanks but is still well down in supply.
26:00 sC sends out a large force of marauders to kill TOP's base at the 9:00.
28:00 TOP tries to push out and hold his fourth, but sC runs in on his sieged tanks and kills them all. sC losees most of his bio but can rebuild, unlike TOP.
31:00 TOP has managed to get his fourth back up but its almost out of minerals quickly with all his mules. sC pushes in with his bio and destroys all TOP's tanks again, though once again losing his army. He doesnt manage to kill TOP's planetary at his fourth though.
32:00 sC builds another massive bio force, runs in, kills all of TOP's tanks. Again. TOP finally GG's.
Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
IMO it should be standard to cross pos scout on Taldarim... Your ovvie will scout another main, and you will find proxy cheese 100% of the time. No advantage to normal scout.
Talk more about how Top shouldnt of lost that game And Have you ever beat Top in practice? The guy is sickkkkkkkkkkkk :D
On October 20 2011 19:19 Treadmill wrote: [quote] Game 4 Map: Tal'Darim Altar Noblesse vs Lucky Noblesse starts in the top left. Lucky starts in the bottom right.
3:00 Noblesse goes 12 rax with no gas. Lucky somehow drone scouts Noblesse at cross position first and goes for hatch first into gas into pool, again.
5:00 Noblesse drops his CC after his second supply depot. He then adds one gas. Lucky drops 2 queens and speed when his pool finishes, then takes his drones off gas. Noblesse adds 2 barracks.
6:00 Noblesse is getting combat shields. Lucky is building 24 lings.
7:00 Noblesse put his CC down at his naturaly and doesnt have a wall. His bunker is too late, the lings run in and mess shit up.
8:30 Lucky follows it up with a baneling nest and a lair. Noblesse is down 40-61 supply though he still has his expansion.
10:00 Noblesse gets his factory, Lucky gets baneling speed a spire and a macro hatch, but no thrid yet. Noblesse also gets stim and a starport. Workers are 32-59.
12:30 Lucky getting 7 mutas and builds a third at the remote 3:00 base. Luck still spending a lot of gas on banelings, but Noblesse has very little to defend against the relatively few mutalisks. Luck gets another base at his normal third an is pushing out wihth his ling/bane. Noblesse does not have siege.
14:30 Lucky runs in with his large army, Noblesse doesn't stand much of a chance without siege. huge baneling hit takes out all the SCVs at the expansion, though Lucky is pushed out for now. Noblesse goes for a desperation push with a tiny force.
15:00 Lucky breaks the push, GG.
Oh good, someone else has started. Thats it for me then
On October 20 2011 19:16 bbQ4Aiur wrote: its kinda ridiculous to see a mech terran can stay in a game for so long after being crushed so many times, if that was a toss or a zerg, it would be gg much earlier
The only thing that is ridiculous is how fucking brokenly easy it is to play bio.
Attack move, lose every unit, remax.
Tanks should not be 125 gas. Marauders should not exist.
god i love you jinro. people dont realize how broken the marauder is
protoss know, trust me...
but really top could have played more carefully
World would be a better place with better mech and marauders not being in game, that way we could see mech in PvT instead of bio =/ Really hate blizzards game design that bio have to be viable....
Mech doesn't work in TvP. The marauder isn't why people don't mech in TvP. It's just protoss have too many counters to mech.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
He had about 2 or so seconds to catch some medivacs with his Vikings after it entered his sensor tower range. And it was off camera, but he sent his a lot of his tanks to kill 1 marauder at his third rather then sending them back to his main.
No hellions, no ravens in the big engagement + half your tanks unsieged = die to marauders.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders? one thing he should do is making raven for PDD, I do not know why mech terran have not done so yet, PDD can stop marauders for a period of time..
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
They buffer the damage so tanks don't get instantly targeted down.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
It's not about the damage its about buffering long enough so your tanks will kill the bio.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
I think he means the hellions are there to cushion the damage a bit so the tanks can get more shots off.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
You're missing the point of hellions. Hellions tank damage for the tanks against marauders.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
The purpose of hellions is to buffer for the tanks, like how vultures buffered against zealot/dragoon in broodwar to keep them in siege range and not hitting the tanks.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
No, but tanks do great damage to marauders. Marauders do awful damage to hellions (they tank, ironically). I heard tanks are fragile. Wonder what could let them beat marauders.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Have you still been trying mech in TvP? If so, hows it going?
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
So you don't think TOP should have dropped some hellions and done something with his air advantage?
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. MVP used a mix of tanks sieged in his base, some marines, and a ton of turrets IIRC.
He just kept all the reinforcements he made as he pushed out in his main to defend it, he even lifted his natural CC into his main IIRC to protect it.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders?
The hellions buffer for the tanks, it takes time for the marauders to get through the hellions and by the time they get to your tank line they are all dead. With nothing to buffer the marauder can get right in the tank line before the superior damage of the tanks can take effect.
TOP had about 5 bases at that point and had only 1 turret next to the sensor tower defending that drop. Seriously, it's your main, he's playing bio, put 2 and 2 together.
On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote: Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying.
At what point did you think he had the gas to spare for PDD spamming ravens? He's going for tanks, they're gas intensive as is, but he has to hold back at the risk of losing his base, so he can't expand as much
On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote: Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying.
At what point did you think he had the gas to spare for PDD spamming ravens? He's going for tanks, they're gas intensive as is, but he has to hold back at the risk of losing his base, so he can't expand as much
Maybe because he had like 10 vikings and 4 banshees at all times? You can afford a raven in there.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Jinro, do you think that armour upgrades would have made a difference? Or a more varied composition (more/fewer hellions? Ravens for PDD?) Or is it just marauders being bullshit?
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed.
I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Jinro, do you think that armour upgrades would have made a difference? Or a more varied composition (more/fewer hellions? Ravens for PDD?) Or is it just marauders being bullshit?
I would of liked a BC switch to that compo, just due to the fact no vikings and minimal AA from SC, the banshee's were doing sick damage in most of the engangements
On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote: Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying.
Yeah and maybe some BCs and more banshees mixed in would have been good too, I mean marauders can't hit air right?
No because like 8 3-3 marines would kill a BC and it's very very easy to switch to pure marine production. Against PDD + tanks, on the other hand, it's a much tougher problem.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed.
I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
You may be right. But if MVP thinks biomech is better than bio or mech, I'd tend to agree with MVP since he's such a TvT beast.
On October 20 2011 19:33 ViperPL wrote: Tank/raven with pdd spam would easily make TOP win, but no thinking = no winning.
Also, these breaks are really annoying.
At what point did you think he had the gas to spare for PDD spamming ravens? He's going for tanks, they're gas intensive as is, but he has to hold back at the risk of losing his base, so he can't expand as much
Maybe because he had like 10 vikings and 4 banshees at all times? You can afford a raven in there.
Yeah, I don't really get the point of so many early banshees in your air composition, especially against a pure bio force. They're not really that effective against Marauders.
On October 20 2011 19:23 Tsubbi wrote: this is funny seeing terran complain about terran
not surpising considering its the only matchup they go in without an advantage
that aside i don't see the whole mech is superior etc etc, it's map dependend and situational, and bio needs more multitasking from the looks of it too
Sometimes its fun to drop 4 medivacs of marauders and kill every building in sight, but overall its a retarded unit. I hate that its probably the 'easiest' unit to use in the game. For example, look at the game just played, TOP had to concentrate on positioning his army perfectly, while defending from a huge drop. sC just split his army, put half in medivacs and then a moved the other half in a concave and kills every tank.
What are you talking about, he had his tanks sieged a long time previous. All he had to do was clean up with vikings/banshees. If he was actually using his air advantage to drop hellions different arguments could be made, but what TOP did was not in any way harder.
And he lost them all because his tanks were positioned in the way they were.
No, he lost them all because he had 0 hellion support there. The positioning was fine. Pure marauder kills naked tanks (especially with a bunch of supply tied up in air units).
wtf do you think hellions can do some damages to marauders? one thing he should do is making raven for PDD, I do not know why mech terran have not done so yet, PDD can stop marauders for a period of time..
they absorb damage, this is perfectly why people that are noobs should not talk about strategies, unit composition or decision making : you do not understand what you see to the extent you think you do. you're not playing rock paper scissor, buddy, but StarCraft.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed.
I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
Also "bio" meant mostly marines for a long time; it took a little while for players to figure out that while marauders aren't really any better against tanks, they are far far better against hellions.
I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
On October 20 2011 19:38 secretary bird wrote: Bio isnt even that good and you can lose your entire army in 2 seconds if you're not careful as well.
Gotta be bitching about something in a LR without Protoss I guess.
sC is very good bio user. He's up there with MKP, Polt in pure bio control and micro. There have been ton of people who've tried marauders versus tanks and then gotten destroyed because they couldn't position/micro well.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed. MVP used a mix of tanks sieged in his base, some marines, and a ton of turrets IIRC.
He just kept all the reinforcements he made as he pushed out in his main to defend it, he even lifted his natural CC into his main IIRC to protect it.
MVP is just the better player overall i guess TvT is so interesting because people whine in bio vs mech TvT will be similar to the other mirror matchup if everybody just go mech. and that will not happen as Blizzard always wanted to make bio and mech viable in the matchup.
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
Just woke up and it's nice to see sC doing well. He is one terran I don't mind in code S despite overcrowding. Rooting for sC and Lucky. Noblesse looks to have a rough day? He is extremely quick and smart usually.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Didn't MVP come up with a way to defend against that? I recall MKP beating a bunch of terrans in a row with bio base races, only to hit MVP in the finals and have his drop play completely shut down against MVP's mech due to insane amounts of turtling at home while he pushed.
I think MVP played bio-mech in those games, because mech didn't get popular till 4-5 months ago? Way after the MVP/MKP finals. You can't really equate bio-mech to pure mech, because marines kill marauders, marines, medivacs, and every thing in the universe so fast.
You may be right. But if MVP thinks biomech is better than bio or mech, I'd tend to agree with MVP since he's such a TvT beast.
This was biomech back when almost everyone played biomech (marine/tank, some played pure bio still)
MKP tried to base trade once in the finals on meta iirc, and MVP shut it down simply because he was so far ahead at that point that he had an army both in his base and at MKP's.
On October 20 2011 19:41 parazice wrote: why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"- just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio
Progamer whining inspires people =(
People always whine about blizzard game for balancing and stuff, I think blizzard is doing a great job because it is not that one unit can win you the game with no eas. Oh snap there are marines? ;o
MVP clearly shows that you can still own faces by going mech, top just sucks at going mech apparently. Mech rewards the better play and requieres a lot more skill than bio, that doesn't mean that anyone can go mech and just win over bio.
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there.
Also marine tank won't cut it against mech after a certain point. That's basically why everyone still transitions into pure MMM right now. I've never seen anyone go marine tank into the midgame against mech.
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Its really map dependant. You could even see on that map, sC never pushed into the tighter space leading to TOP's base cause he would've just been slaughtered, but the fourth is sooo wide open that bio is really good. So on maps that have less open space, mech is at least viable. Most of the maps are really wide open though so mech is bad.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Yeah, the point of playing mech if often waiting for a max army, but "modern" (I mean developed) mech now turret ring their main with +1 range turrets and has viking control so drops don't do that much damage anymore (the threat of drops is way higher vs marine tank than vs MMM). On a map like Terminus, even MVP plays bio, you can form ridiculous arcs and dive into tank lines, sC played that perfectly imo. I know you have to camp, but I just don't agree with your post that said that bio is way easier to play than mech, especially after that game where TOP didn't do anything but producing tanks and sieging them the whole game.
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there.
Having 0 marines was SC playing smart/reactively, not really the norm. And the patch definitely changed how marines function in the mid-lategame in biomech v mech.
On October 20 2011 19:41 parazice wrote: why you guys still QQ about Mech vs Bio -"- just think like Top Mech is not good enough for Sc Bio
Progamer whining inspires people =(
People always whine about blizzard game for balancing and stuff, I think blizzard is doing a great job because it is not that one unit can win you the game with no eas. Oh snap there are marines? ;o
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there.
Also marine tank won't cut it against mech after a certain point. That's basically why everyone still transitions into pure MMM right now. I've never seen anyone go marine tank into the midgame against mech.
a. why would you say that hellions aren't "meant" to damage marines b. TOP did have a pretty good hellion count but it wandered into the bio and died before he tried to take his fourth. Maybe that made more of a difference to the outcome than was first thought.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
The problem is that its the threat of happening but mech players are careful so it rarely actually happens. Its great tension to play mech in TvT but its kinda hard on the viewer to go hey look that tank moved and that tanked backed up and that other tank moved a different direction and the other tank backed up. In bio you can see the stuff happening and stuff happening creates excitement.
Don't know whats the whining about. 20 Tanks with 2 pdd will destroy 20+ marauders so badly. 20 tanks without any buffer or pdd will lose to well controlled marauders. TOP weakness has always been everything except his macro, and thats why hes in the ups and downs right now.
On October 20 2011 19:39 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people are deciding to whine now. Mech has been dominating TvT pre patch and the only change post patch is that blue flame helion openings are just much weaker now, but if you get into the midgame nothing has changed.
Not true, marines are a lot better against hellions (compared to before) throughout the game. That's why marine tank can just kinda win against mech now (a lot of the time).
Helions were never meant to damage marines in the mid-late game. Besides, in bio they actually don't have that many marines so the point is moot; you saw how few marines sC had. Helions were always meant for tanking and I only saw like 5 helions taking damage there.
Also marine tank won't cut it against mech after a certain point. That's basically why everyone still transitions into pure MMM right now. I've never seen anyone go marine tank into the midgame against mech.
a. why would you say that hellions aren't "meant" to damage marines b. TOP did have a pretty good hellion count but it wandered into the bio and died before he tried to take his fourth. Maybe that made more of a difference to the outcome than was first thought.
I was saying that helion dps vs marines was never vital in engagements because they'll never have a high marine count and the splash from the tanks is a much bigger portion of the DPS.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Yeah, the point of playing mech if often waiting for a max army, but "modern" (I mean developed) mech now turret ring their main with +1 range turrets and has viking control so drops don't do that much damage anymore (the threat of drops is way higher vs marine tank than vs MMM). On a map like Terminus, even MVP plays bio, you can form ridiculous arcs and dive into tank lines, sC played that perfectly imo. I know you have to camp, but I just don't agree with your post that said that bio is way easier to play than mech, especially after that game where TOP didn't do anything but producing tanks and sieging them the whole game.
I recall MVP playing mech on terminus against bomber, where his banshees killed 120+ scvs
Sometimes you see GSL games that just remind you how crazy the Korean ladder is. I'm sure that every TvT on the ladder has turned into this - stuff like, both players position their reapers in the smoke to catch the opponents reapers.
The first time ive seen mass repeaers in a game in awhile (first in TvT this year) and it has to be against mass reaper. This is both weird and confusing for me.
I can't wait for Khaldor to cast in Korea. I don't usually whine about casters, but Moletrap seems to be wrong all the time and makes horrible puns (You guys don't know me very well, but coming from, that's saying something). Casters are supposed to make the games easier to watch, but him being wrong all the time actually makes it harder to watch the game.
More on topic: Did Taeja just break the ladder? Awesome build.
See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
This just proves SC2 has a lot to "evolve" before a chronic metagame is established. Which imo is great news for SC2 as it means vanilla SC2, in the most established match-up of TvT, hasn't been totally figured out!
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Taeja is a really good player, I'm not so sure he'd lose in a Bo3.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
No way anyone would ever lose a BO3 to the 4th highest ELO player right?!
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Uh, TOP wasn't playing well. He even let an SCV sit in front of his base with an open supply depot. He had a proxy rax with a tech lab and he didn't do anything with it. His decision making and reaction times have been awful today. What makes you think he would win in a straight up game?
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
I think they are both at the same level, top macro is good but his harassment and micro + game sense is worse than terran
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
with slightly better tvz, taeja would probably be the best terran in the world
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
I saw him losing 0-3 to Mr. Gator in NY. XD I've never been a fan of oGs players except Nada and GSL can do without TOP, IMO.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Stupid rant. The format is the same for everyone: 4 games, 4 opponents, need to win 3 out of 4 to make Code S.
On October 20 2011 19:20 rebuffering wrote: rofl i just watched someone make one unit and stim, run into seiged tanks, and still win, how is there nothing wrong with that.
Personally I saw someone do camping, waiting for max tanks while hiding bases he couldn't defend, and the other one kept attacking into him with beautiful spreading and just outplaying the camper. Nothing wrong either way, the one who played better won. Like how hard is it to spam tanks and turrets, it's like the lowest apm-requirement build in the whole game.
Mech has to camp vs bio because anytime you attack they drop your main with 3 dropships, lose their army and remax before you even get to their base.
So its camp or die.
Mech vs mech is 10x better than anything involving bio in TvT, because the constant threat of getting your entire base wiped or army destroyed because you were unsieged for 1 second, doesnt exist.
Yeah, the point of playing mech if often waiting for a max army, but "modern" (I mean developed) mech now turret ring their main with +1 range turrets and has viking control so drops don't do that much damage anymore (the threat of drops is way higher vs marine tank than vs MMM). On a map like Terminus, even MVP plays bio, you can form ridiculous arcs and dive into tank lines, sC played that perfectly imo. I know you have to camp, but I just don't agree with your post that said that bio is way easier to play than mech, especially after that game where TOP didn't do anything but producing tanks and sieging them the whole game.
I recall MVP playing mech on terminus against bomber, where his banshees killed 120+ scvs
vs TOP in the grand finals he played bio vs TOP's mech
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
with slightly better tvz, taeja would probably be the best terran in the world
i'm serious
Nah... come on now... winning ESV tournaments is good and all, but most of those guys are code A/B players...
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Top and Taeja are not very far apart in skill probably kind of a toss-up .
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
On October 20 2011 19:55 VegaNZ wrote: How many openers can Terran do????? lol that was hilarious, Kinda hard to imagining anything stopping that???
Marauders. A tank. I imagine banshess with/without cloak would do to, could just fly into the enemy base where theres no anti air. Although i guess you'd have to do something about a reaper counterattack.
On October 20 2011 19:56 nihoh wrote: This just proves SC2 has a lot to "evolve" before a chronic metagame is established. Which imo is great news for SC2 as it means vanilla SC2, in the most established match-up of TvT, hasn't been totally figured out!
Only Terran can do that, they have so many good unit, they dont even need the reaper lol, none of their unit is useless.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
He got 3-0'd by a random Protoss in IEM NY, he's far from invincible. Especially from Taeja, who's a stronger player anyway.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Complaining about TOP losing to a reaper build...
...having opened 2rax (proxy) reapers himself, and then doing nothing with them...
Format is fine.
===
Pretty big game right now?
If Lucky wins he goes to 2-1 and pegs sC to 2-1.
If sC wins he's presumably through and Lucky is probably out (Taeja at 2-0 with a win over lucky, would require Noblesse and TOP to make a 2-2 tiebreak or something)
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Taeja is a really good player, I'm not so sure he'd lose in a Bo3.
Ok, but you must be able to agree, anyone can cheese/all in 1 game off anybody in the GSL? With how much they practice and how good they are. So BO1 systems seem really stupid!
You get Code S you play BO1s until round of 16, in Code A you constantly play BO3s and the better player wins that tournament. You play BO1s in Up/Down you get people like Gumiho go through and YuGiOh, WTF Gom!
GSL Open season were won by the better players, all BO3s starting. Up Down original match ups were BO3s in a mini group, why did they have to change it! There was a huge gap between code A/S originally in the BO3 system, hardly any Code A player replaced a Code S one due to the BO3 system. No a BO1 system comes in and all i hear is "Code A is stacked, so many good players who deserve code S"
Argh i just hate seeing people lose in games they clearly would win if was a BO3 or atleast then if they did lose you can say, well he had 3 games (maybe 2games) to win and he failed to do so he doesn't deserve code S, but to play 2 games and be out of Code S is beyond me.
parazice Thailand. October 20 2011 20:00 On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
you don't want to see Taeja 2-0 Top for sure
I actually would! I wouldnt mind seeing Top lose in a BO3 because you know that he lost to a player who was better than him in a longer match up. Bo1 is so silly ANYONE can win a BO1 in korean vs korean because they can practice 1 build for like 3 days straight -_-
Taeja, keep using reapers. I love them as units and love to see them used by pros. I try to use them lots but I'm not as good at controlling them as I could be.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
Taeja is a really good player, I'm not so sure he'd lose in a Bo3.
Ok, but you must be able to agree, anyone can cheese/all in 1 game off anybody in the GSL? With how much they practice and how good they are. So BO1 systems seem really stupid!
You get Code S you play BO1s until round of 16, in Code A you constantly play BO3s and the better player wins that tournament. You play BO1s in Up/Down you get people like Gumiho go through and YuGiOh, WTF Gom!
GSL Open season were won by the better players, all BO3s starting. Up Down original match ups were BO3s in a mini group, why did they have to change it! There was a huge gap between code A/S originally in the BO3 system, hardly any Code A player replaced a Code S one due to the BO3 system. No a BO1 system comes in and all i hear is "Code A is stacked, so many good players who deserve code S"
Argh i just hate seeing people lose in games they clearly would win if was a BO3 or atleast then if they did lose you can say, well he had 3 games (maybe 2games) to win and he failed to do so he doesn't deserve code S, but to play 2 games and be out of Code S is beyond me.
You can't cheese 3-4 games in a row against different players on the same day though.
Top is overrated. Yes, he might be quite consistent, but please look at all his games carefully. He's only good at macro and nothing else. Bad at direct engagements, bad at maneuvering his army around to force bad engagements from opponent. I just don't sense anything special from his play.
On October 20 2011 19:55 VegaNZ wrote: How many openers can Terran do????? lol that was hilarious, Kinda hard to imagining anything stopping that???
One tank.
didnt he hit by the 6:30 mark? I mean I know a tank would prolly stop that but thats only if you do tank exp or something. can happen often, but still less often than not imo. a good bet to take from the reaper side. no?
On October 20 2011 20:04 babysimba wrote: Top is overrated. Yes, he might be quite consistent, but please look at all his games carefully. He's only good at macro and nothing else. Bad at direct engagements, bad at maneuvering his army around to force bad engagements from opponent. I just don't sense anything special from his play.
many people already know that but he from oGs that why
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Lucky goes for a hatch on 15/18, making two more drones then takes gas first followed up with a pool on 3:06.
SC has gone for a one barrack build into a command center at his natural at 3:38.
8:00:
SC uses his barrack to kill a scouting overlord of Lucky. For a spit second it looks like the overlord was able to escape but sC took it down!
sC is making two factorys, and uses the barracks that was used to kill the overlord to make a reactor in the main.
Second reactor beeing made on the first factory that finished.
Lucky scouts the reactor on the barrack and the factory, but not the second.
Lucky flies in an overlord and see's the second factory, but not sure if he knews what is up.
5 marines took down the overlord.
Lucky is going for an attack and is at the base at 7:25 see's the bunker and pulls back.
Lucky has taken his 3rd, and has made a roach warren and a spine.
12:00:
Lucky has raoches out to defend vs the helions, sC is still making helions until 9:10 then swithced his factory to make two techlabs, and the barrack go onto the reactor and he is making 6marines at the same time.
Banelingnest beeing made by Lucky.
sC is also making a armory and he is researching +1 bio damage.
Stim research finished at 10:44 followed up with a siege tank research and +1 vehical damage.
Lucky is researching roach speed baneling speed and +1 melee damage for his lings.
sc is making two tanks at the same time and 9 marines, no medvacs in production.
On October 20 2011 19:55 Pandemona wrote: See this is why GOM sucks and needs to re think its wholeeeeee tournament system..
Top would not lose a BO3 to Taeja, but however he lost that game due to mass reaper, he wouldn't lose to that ever again but he doesn't have a choice.............No he is 0-2 and in Code A next season, What a joke.
Bring back fkn BO3s ffs.
with slightly better tvz, taeja would probably be the best terran in the world
i'm serious
Nah... come on now... winning ESV tournaments is good and all, but most of those guys are code A/B players...
do you watch the korean weeklys?
-i don't think any protoss should beat him in a bo5, unless he has crazy preparation -tvt is kinda unstable right now, and taeja like many other terrans isn't really the biggest mech player but he is really smart at chosing his strategies, even though he seems to be nervous (think of him like alive) -tvz mostly good strategies and crazy micro (multi medivac hellion drops, but with sc1 reaver micro), decent macro, but not the best multi task/defense, which is obviously really important
and let's see what he did in gsl: got cheesed out by ganzi(?) in code a, destroyed his up&down, but choked in code s
most all kills in gstl history, most kills of any slayers player in the last 2 seasons
On October 20 2011 19:59 bubl100500 wrote: If Lucky won't go through, we will still have 19 terrans in code S.
We don't need another July in Code S.
I want 32 July's in Code S.
You're a crazy person.
But imagine the games....
We'd need some of those July's to be JulyTerran and JulyToss, there are only so many early pool builds and fast baneling builds a player can do in ZvZ, but it would be so awesome.
On October 20 2011 19:59 bubl100500 wrote: If Lucky won't go through, we will still have 19 terrans in code S.
We don't need another July in Code S.
I want 32 July's in Code S.
And 8 Jaedongs, 4 Saviors, 2 Yellows, and a partridge in a pear tree.
Also, an angry hipster just killed the 100% poll.
Two angry hipsters. Makes me sad.
I have to say, as a terran, that if you go hellions and see roaches you get a huge smile, because tanks are soooo good against roaches. Good move by Lucky not to build too many I guess.
On October 20 2011 19:55 VegaNZ wrote: How many openers can Terran do????? lol that was hilarious, Kinda hard to imagining anything stopping that???
One tank.
didnt he hit by the 6:30 mark? I mean I know a tank would prolly stop that but thats only if you do tank exp or something. can happen often, but still less often than not imo. a good bet to take from the reaper side. no?
My english is far from perfect, I am sorry if it has or will bother you.
4:00:
Lucky goes for a hatch on 15/18, making two more drones then takes gas first followed up with a pool on 3:06.
SC has gone for a one barrack build into a command center at his natural at 3:38.
8:00:
SC uses his barrack to kill a scouting overlord of Lucky. For a spit second it looks like the overlord was able to escape but sC took it down!
sC is making two factorys, and uses the barracks that was used to kill the overlord to make a reactor in the main.
Second reactor beeing made on the first factory that finished.
Lucky scouts the reactor on the barrack and the factory, but not the second.
Lucky flies in an overlord and see's the second factory, but not sure if he knews what is up.
5 marines took down the overlord.
Lucky is going for an attack and is at the base at 7:25 see's the bunker and pulls back.
Lucky has taken his 3rd, and has made a roach warren and a spine.
12:00:
Lucky has raoches out to defend vs the helions, sC is still making helions until 9:10 then swithced his factory to make two techlabs, and the barrack go onto the reactor and he is making 6marines at the same time.
Banelingnest beeing made by Lucky.
sC is also making a armory and he is researching +1 bio damage.
Stim research finished at 10:44 followed up with a siege tank research and +1 vehical damage.
Lucky is researching roach speed baneling speed and +1 melee damage for his lings.
sc is making two tanks at the same time and 9 marines, no medvacs in production.
Spire on 50% at 12:00.
16:00:
sC goes for a push, lucky see's what is going on and makes a few banelings.
sc is going for the 3rd, 6 tanks alot of marines and 8 helions.
10 more banelings in production.
sc trying to save his hatchery, attack in the last minute but the army of sc is to big, all helions died but 0 tanks died and the marines stim to the hatcery cleaning up the roaches and taking down the hatchery.
lucky is making 10 muta's and making more banelings.
sc sieges his tanks near the natural right now, taking down the baneling nest and the banelings and Lucky GG's the game!
On October 20 2011 19:55 VegaNZ wrote: How many openers can Terran do????? lol that was hilarious, Kinda hard to imagining anything stopping that???
One tank.
didnt he hit by the 6:30 mark? I mean I know a tank would prolly stop that but thats only if you do tank exp or something. can happen often, but still less often than not imo. a good bet to take from the reaper side. no?
If Taeja and sC advance i will be happy . Should be the best players of the group anway. TOP not looking too sharp , Lucky and especially Noblesse look just bad ...
On October 20 2011 20:04 babysimba wrote: Top is overrated. Yes, he might be quite consistent, but please look at all his games carefully. He's only good at macro and nothing else. Bad at direct engagements, bad at maneuvering his army around to force bad engagements from opponent. I just don't sense anything special from his play.
No he is not. He's not bad at these things he's just not as good as them as other players are but he's still pretty good at them. His macro makes up for it most of the time. Sure today he isn't playing as well as he did in the past but he just recently got back from IEM so he could still be tired, jetlagged etc.
On October 20 2011 20:10 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Having 40 more drones than the terran has SCVs, AND having roaches to boot... Lucky's army was like 1/3 the size of sC's despite being equal supply ;p
Clearly going for Naniwa's 140-worker push in TL attack
On October 20 2011 20:09 ViperPL wrote: Aaaaaand the only non-terran not advancing. Lame.
Frankly after watching Lucky play today, I couldn't be happier. We need more Protosses than Zergs in Code S anyway.
I think what we need more of is good players. As much as racial balance is nice I'd be kinda sad to see Lucky get in ahead of any of sC TOP or Taeja. Unless, I suppose, he looked like he earned it.
On October 20 2011 20:11 Angelbelow wrote: Thats why roaches are so bad in ZvT. Puts back mutas way too long...
Nah he would have crushed that with better macro, he was floating a ton of money. His macro let him down. Ling baneling roach is actually awesome against that specific combination of units. It just sucks once medivacs are out.
On October 20 2011 20:10 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Having 40 more drones than the terran has SCVs, AND having roaches to boot... Lucky's army was like 1/3 the size of sC's despite being equal supply ;p
Scary bit is he actually could have killed that push if he went around with his Roaches then timed the Sandwich properly.
On October 20 2011 20:16 pdd wrote: Nestea has been in the Up/Down dudes... -___-
Also, why don't they just play Taeja's game now and end the night? Sigh.
You don't want more sc2? I'm confused.
I also want to do my work.. been too addicted to Starcraft. And watching Noblesse and TOP (or even Lucky) after their disappointing play today, might not be very beneficial for me.
Noblesse probably expecting a macro build from the macro Terran, so this cheese may be effective.
TOP probably gonna win with this cheese, though I did see ForGG hold something like this on the ESV Korean Weekly under similar circumstances so it is possible to survive.
On October 20 2011 20:20 Treadmill wrote: Hahahaha. This is definitely an "I'm tired, Taeja's probably going to win anyways, this game is meaningless, so TO HELL WITH IT." Good for him
On October 20 2011 20:20 Treadmill wrote: Hahahaha. This is definitely an "I'm tired, Taeja's probably going to win anyways, this game is meaningless, so TO HELL WITH IT." Good for him
On October 20 2011 20:19 Taf the Ghost wrote: While it's not assured, Taeja pretty much is the other Code S slot.
Given the matches left and current standing.
If TOP wins this, it's over. If Noblesse wins, he can still catch Taeja. Possibly with Lucky, if he takes out TOP too.
He can't catch Taeja , Taeja beat Noblesse even if they are tied unless there is a 3 way tie but it has to be with TOP because Taeja beat Lucky as well.
On October 20 2011 20:19 Taf the Ghost wrote: While it's not assured, Taeja pretty much is the other Code S slot.
Given the matches left and current standing.
If TOP wins this, it's over. If Noblesse wins, he can still catch Taeja. Possibly with Lucky, if he takes out TOP too.
He can't catch Taeja , Taeja beat Noblesse even if they are tied unless there is a 3 way tie but it has to be with TOP because Taeja beat Lucky as well.
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
On October 20 2011 20:19 Taf the Ghost wrote: While it's not assured, Taeja pretty much is the other Code S slot.
Given the matches left and current standing.
If TOP wins this, it's over. If Noblesse wins, he can still catch Taeja. Possibly with Lucky, if he takes out TOP too.
He can't catch Taeja , Taeja beat Noblesse even if they are tied unless there is a 3 way tie but it has to be with TOP because Taeja beat Lucky as well.
I don't think taeja played noblesse
A right that match wasn't played yet ^^ Got confused because Moletrape and some other build stated it was..
On October 20 2011 20:19 Taf the Ghost wrote: While it's not assured, Taeja pretty much is the other Code S slot.
Given the matches left and current standing.
If TOP wins this, it's over. If Noblesse wins, he can still catch Taeja. Possibly with Lucky, if he takes out TOP too.
He can't catch Taeja , Taeja beat Noblesse even if they are tied unless there is a 3 way tie but it was to be with TOP because Taeja beat Lucky as well.
If Noblesse beats TOP and Taeja, Taeja loses to sC, then Noblesse and Taeja are both 2-2 with Noblesse > Taeja. If Lucky additionally beats TOP, then they are all 2-2, tied between each other (Taeja > Lucky > Noblesse > Taeja).
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
It's because of the money imo. When suddenly you win a lot of money, it's hard to concentrate on practice.
On October 20 2011 20:19 Taf the Ghost wrote: While it's not assured, Taeja pretty much is the other Code S slot.
Given the matches left and current standing.
If TOP wins this, it's over. If Noblesse wins, he can still catch Taeja. Possibly with Lucky, if he takes out TOP too.
He can't catch Taeja , Taeja beat Noblesse even if they are tied unless there is a 3 way tie but it has to be with TOP because Taeja beat Lucky as well.
Taeja & Noblesse haven't played yet. If Noblesse wins, then it's a matter of what happens next. Still a chance for a 3-way tie for 2nd place.
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
It's because of the money imo. When suddenly you win a lot of money, it's hard to concentrate on practice.
That should be on the champ more though. I think its more that they're still on tilt since their losses in the finals. Lets be honest, the Code S finals have pretty much always been one sided, so they would cause some psychological doubts on people's minds
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
it's actually more of a finalist curse
MVP: to code a after january MC: to up& downs after march
interestingly enough it always only hits one of the finalists i think
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
it's actually more of a finalist curse
MVP: to code a after january MC: to up& downs after march
interestingly enough it always only hits one of the finalists i think
On October 20 2011 20:27 thepuppyassassin wrote: Top dropping to code A... this system is actually terrible. They should just go back to open format, with only 1 qualifiying tourney.
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
it's actually more of a finalist curse
MVP: to code a after january MC: to up& downs after march
interestingly enough it always only hits one of the finalists i think
On October 20 2011 20:27 thepuppyassassin wrote: Top dropping to code A... this system is actually terrible. They should just go back to open format, with only 1 qualifiying tourney.
The step between Code A and Code S does seem a little steep.
On October 20 2011 20:22 Fionn wrote: The runner-up curse continues
Inca: To Code A and then Code B MMA: Lost in the first round of Code A after the Super Tournament loss Losira: Went 0-2 in groups and went to Up-and-Downs and barely survived TOP: Currently what you're watching
it's actually more of a finalist curse
MVP: to code a after january MC: to up& downs after march
interestingly enough it always only hits one of the finalists i think
So next GSL, MMA will drop to Code A? :/
Seeing as he's going to get crushed TvT vs MVP, its going to nightmares of Polt/MVP tormenting his nightmares.
On October 20 2011 20:27 thepuppyassassin wrote: Top dropping to code A... this system is actually terrible. They should just go back to open format, with only 1 qualifiying tourney.
Top deserves to be in Code A the way to he played tonight. The system is far from perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than what they had before.
On October 20 2011 20:23 Pandemona wrote: Soooo what have we learnt today. Well, the TvT bo1 series is more of a coin flip than PvP, thank blizzard :D
lol what coinflip exactly. The only way TOP could have had a more favorable opening is if noblesse went 15 CC
The last game Top new he was out and went to "cheese" Noblesse any Terran could of held that it was awful 2 rax cheese (he did it to Nada before and lost aswell)
I mean coin flap as in, if you go mech now u insta lose vs bio. If u go marine tank it comes down to positioning like the old days (but no one has done that today)
Today we have seen, Helion Viking Tank Thor vs Helion Seige Marine. 7 reapers vs 5. 2 rax vs Fast factory. And Mech vs Bio.
On October 20 2011 20:23 Pandemona wrote: Soooo what have we learnt today. Well, the TvT bo1 series is more of a coin flip than PvP, thank blizzard :D
I think we've just learnt that when peoples favourites get owned they like to make excuses
---
The ball is very much in Taeja's court then for the rest of this.
I think what we learned today is that he likes to complain alot.
Complaining is a constant of the TL LR experience.
I didn't expect it in a day of mostly TvT.
Well it's because terran users can actually get to root for some specific players whereas protoss and zerg, well you know, root for all protoss and zerg )
On October 20 2011 20:23 Pandemona wrote: Soooo what have we learnt today. Well, the TvT bo1 series is more of a coin flip than PvP, thank blizzard :D
lol what coinflip exactly. The only way TOP could have had a more favorable opening is if noblesse went 15 CC
The last game Top new he was out and went to "cheese" Noblesse any Terran could of held that it was awful 2 rax cheese (he did it to Nada before and lost aswell)
I mean coin flap as in, if you go mech now u insta lose vs bio. If u go marine tank it comes down to positioning like the old days (but no one has done that today)
Today we have seen, Helion Viking Tank Thor vs Helion Seige Marine. 7 reapers vs 5. 2 rax vs Fast factory. And Mech vs Bio.
Its silly
Mech doesn't insta-lose to bio, most players just aren't good enough to play with mech. Stop talking shit, if Mech insta-lost to the current most popular TvT style why would players still be meching?
On October 20 2011 20:23 Pandemona wrote: Soooo what have we learnt today. Well, the TvT bo1 series is more of a coin flip than PvP, thank blizzard :D
lol what coinflip exactly. The only way TOP could have had a more favorable opening is if noblesse went 15 CC
The last game Top new he was out and went to "cheese" Noblesse any Terran could of held that it was awful 2 rax cheese (he did it to Nada before and lost aswell)
I mean coin flap as in, if you go mech now u insta lose vs bio. If u go marine tank it comes down to positioning like the old days (but no one has done that today)
Today we have seen, Helion Viking Tank Thor vs Helion Seige Marine. 7 reapers vs 5. 2 rax vs Fast factory. And Mech vs Bio.
Its silly
Yes, it's silly.
Talking about your post, obviously, not about its contents.
Watch more, post less. You're turning this thread into shit.
I'm rooting for Taeja. I'm naively hoping that stuffing code S with SlayerS players may help them win that 1st championship...From MVP's merciless, gauntlet clad, iron grip.
On October 20 2011 20:33 Clefairy wrote: Coolies. My predictions were all right. TOP was obviously doomed from the start and sC and Taeja will go to Code S. Hooray for my liquibet.
On October 20 2011 20:33 Clefairy wrote: Coolies. My predictions were all right. TOP was obviously doomed from the start and sC and Taeja will go to Code S. Hooray for my liquibet.
On October 20 2011 20:23 Pandemona wrote: Soooo what have we learnt today. Well, the TvT bo1 series is more of a coin flip than PvP, thank blizzard :D
lol what coinflip exactly. The only way TOP could have had a more favorable opening is if noblesse went 15 CC
The last game Top new he was out and went to "cheese" Noblesse any Terran could of held that it was awful 2 rax cheese (he did it to Nada before and lost aswell)
I mean coin flap as in, if you go mech now u insta lose vs bio. If u go marine tank it comes down to positioning like the old days (but no one has done that today)
Today we have seen, Helion Viking Tank Thor vs Helion Seige Marine. 7 reapers vs 5. 2 rax vs Fast factory. And Mech vs Bio.
Its silly
How's that different from TOP losing twice to the same opponent in a similar fashion? He technically loses a Bo3.
The system's far from perfect, but there are time constraints to GOM's broadcast. It's the best, and it's good enough. It's not going to change the fact that TOP played 3 terrible games.
On October 20 2011 20:33 Clefairy wrote: Coolies. My predictions were all right. TOP was obviously doomed from the start and sC and Taeja will go to Code S. Hooray for my liquibet.
Except there was no liquibet for these up/downs?
Maybe he wants to liquibet sC and Taeja in Code S next season.
On October 20 2011 20:33 Clefairy wrote: Coolies. My predictions were all right. TOP was obviously doomed from the start and sC and Taeja will go to Code S. Hooray for my liquibet.
Except there was no liquibet for these up/downs?
Aw I was certain I'd voted in a liquibet like that. Must have been in my dreams.
sC super disappointed. Good to see him like this. Shows that he's really trying to get back to where he was and that he feels bad for not giving his teammate a chance to advance.
Woah, face of a champion right there. SC goes to Code S anyhoo but the outcome still stings for him. Maybe next season we will get a rematch of Nestea v SC :D
On October 20 2011 08:51 vVvPastry wrote: Definitely easiest to predict.
Teaja Top no doubt in my mind
sC is injured
Nobollesse is def not as good as these guys
Teaja, Top, sC all have better TvZs that Lucky's ZvT
Teaja and Top have better TvT than both sC and Nobollesse
And Lucky's ZvT was not impressive being that the only time I really saw him play was at IPL where he relied on Roach all ins and lucky baneling bombs over macro games.
Sucks for TOP but he really didn't play well today . sC and Taeja are better player in my mind anyway. TOP is Code S in my mind but not over the other 2. He should be able to return though .
That's a bit depressing for MVP and Prime oGs has lost a lot, imagine if MC didn't just win his Code S spot back, they'd have 3. Ouchies.FXO is doing well which pleases me greatly.
On October 20 2011 20:43 purgerinho wrote: oh, race count stays the same? :/
I think there are 19 terrans this time..........
LOLOLOL
Well to be fair, there are like... 3? Terrans that might not deserve to be there. The rest are just REALLY GOOD.
yes suuure, at least 15 of them are top5 terran in korea
what makes guys like you say that? it's harder to look bad playing the strongest race
I know right. If i felt the same way about this crop of Terrans i would actually be praying to MVP before bed every night. I would build a shrine in my backyard. I would dream of the day i could one day be in the same room as him breathing the same air as His Holiness.
That's 10 that are just rock solid Code S level players regardless of race imho. Give or take the 3-4 that are randomly there because of luck or winning streaks we're down to the 4-5 that just might be there because of racial imbalance imho. It'll filter out the racial imbalance ones next season and after that the ones that are there because of luck. It'll take a while but we're getting there EDIT: The racial imbalance I'm talking about are from previous seasons and 111.
Wow, grats to sC, didn't honestly think he'd make it with his recent illnesses, though no doubt he's Code S quality. Shame TOP isn't living up to his standard, seems to be a bit on tilt, which is sad from one of the most otherwise consistent players in Code S =/
Maybe to be first two time Code A champ? Haha, I like to think so. So long as he un-tilts or whatever =/
Remember when Boxer first made his team full of unkowns, some of them really made it! Gooooo Slayers!
Actually Ryung and Ganzi were gaining quite a good reputation on ladder in Prime and IM respectively (RyungPrime, IMGanzi). Taeja, Coca, Puzzle were all originally from ZeNEX (Coca and Puzzle were both Code S when they were acquired). And MMA came out from nowhere, but when he hit the scene he did make quite a quick impact. Yugioh hardly practices with Slayers, according to Cella.
So I wouldn't really say the Code S Slayers players were unknown back then or gained much of their skill through SlayerS's training regimen.
But I do agree to a certain extent that being in SlayerS were good for the Terrans at least.
Polt didnt look so good at MLG though, I can see him dropping again in the future... Happy, sC and Ganzi have impressed a couple times, and even then arent locks in code S I guess.
Hell, MVP and MKP were in code A a couple seasons ago, we can never know what will happen.
Can I request a photoshop for those players who drop from Code S finals all the way down to Code A in the next season -- like, maybe an image of Ken hitting them with a flaming shoryuken in the face? That would be epic.
I'm slightly surprised but very happy that Taeja made it... I just had a bad gut feeling that he'd tilt. Stoked to see him in Code S!
And I really like sC too, so despite the Terran-ism of it all, today went well in my biased books
On October 20 2011 21:35 Garnet wrote: sC is 3-1, not 3-0. And I don't know if it's the GSL runner-up curse or TOP is just overrated. He seems like a nice person though.
I think it's a little bit of both. TOP is decent, but not very consistent, and has a tendency to break under pressure, which I assume is what happened. Really hope he can make it back to Code S though, one of my favourite Terrans for sure.
That's 10 that are just rock solid Code S level players regardless of race imho. Give or take the 3-4 that are randomly there because of luck or winning streaks we're down to the 4-5 that just might be there because of racial imbalance imho. It'll filter out the racial imbalance ones next season and after that the ones that are there because of luck. It'll take a while but we're getting there EDIT: The racial imbalance I'm talking about are from previous seasons and 111.
Who says only 10 could be that good even? 11 would be 1/3 and its not unlikely that 3 more are just a coincidence or switched to terran in beta for obvious reasons as aspiring progamers or something. I mean 19 are too much but its not like anything but 11 Protoss, 11 Zergs and 10 Terrans is clearly imbalanced, we cant measure their skill .
TOP getting jealous of Curious's no-loss win-streak through Code A and deciding he'll do the same thing and furthermore be the first one to two Code A golds?
Because he's definitely Code S level. Probably just in a bit of a slump MKP-style. Hopefully he'll come out of it before he's knocked out of the GSL.
Remember when Boxer first made his team full of unkowns, some of them really made it! Gooooo Slayers!
Actually Ryung and Ganzi were gaining quite a good reputation on ladder in Prime and IM respectively (RyungPrime, IMGanzi). Taeja, Coca, Puzzle were all originally from ZeNEX (Coca and Puzzle were both Code S when they were acquired). And MMA came out from nowhere, but when he hit the scene he did make quite a quick impact. Yugioh hardly practices with Slayers, according to Cella.
So I wouldn't really say the Code S Slayers players were unknown back then or gained much of their skill through SlayerS's training regimen.
But I do agree to a certain extent that being in SlayerS were good for the Terrans at least.
MMA didn't really come out of no where... He was a GSTL ace that failed in Code A 4 times before finally getting Code S through MLG. And yea, the others you listed were all pretty well known. But people like to give Boxer/Slayers credit for any little thing.
Polt didnt look so good at MLG though, I can see him dropping again in the future... Happy, sC and Ganzi have impressed a couple times, and even then arent locks in code S I guess.
Hell, MVP and MKP were in code A a couple seasons ago, we can never know what will happen.
Polt went on a 18-0 run after losing against Gawser. Only to beaten by Puma who in all fairness had not only time to prepare himself against Polt, but also the skill to make it work. As long as Polt isn't messing around he's easily code S material.
Remember when Boxer first made his team full of unkowns, some of them really made it! Gooooo Slayers!
Actually Ryung and Ganzi were gaining quite a good reputation on ladder in Prime and IM respectively (RyungPrime, IMGanzi). Taeja, Coca, Puzzle were all originally from ZeNEX (Coca and Puzzle were both Code S when they were acquired). And MMA came out from nowhere, but when he hit the scene he did make quite a quick impact. Yugioh hardly practices with Slayers, according to Cella.
So I wouldn't really say the Code S Slayers players were unknown back then or gained much of their skill through SlayerS's training regimen.
But I do agree to a certain extent that being in SlayerS were good for the Terrans at least.
MMA didn't really come out of no where... He was a GSTL ace that failed in Code A 4 times before finally getting Code S through MLG. And yea, the others you listed were all pretty well known. But people like to give Boxer/Slayers credit for any little thing.
GSTL is when MMA suddenly exploded, same with DongRaeGu.
On October 20 2011 22:51 wklbishop wrote: My god... TOP's vT is his best matchup so I'm surprised he did so bad. I guess MVP really did suck the soul out of him.
His TvT was never really good when it was Marine/Tank . He was never really good at microing / engaging. I've seen alot of games of him where he sacrifices alot of units needlessly but still won because he's just very good at rebuilding stuff and scv's.
He's really good at macroing though maybe even the best overall at it but thats not allways enough.
Thats quite interesting. I would have thought that NsHoSeo would be doing better by now. Also its sad that Prime is doing so "bad" with only MKP in Code S left.
I think (and hope) Virus, YuGiOh, asd and Ensnare drop down to Code A to make some space for better players. When I think of other Terrans to drop to Code A I cant think of anyone who deserves it even though there are so many. I also think TOP is Code S level and deserves a spot. Im Curious who will drop and who will advance. So pumped for next season
On October 20 2011 23:07 Tppz! wrote: Thats quite interesting. I would have thought that NsHoSeo would be doing better by now. Also its sad that Prime is doing so "bad" with only MKP in Code S left.
I think (and hope) Virus, YuGiOh, asd and Ensnare drop down to Code A to make some space for better players. When I think of other Terrans to drop to Code A I cant think of anyone who deserves it even though there are so many. I also think TOP is Code S level and deserves a spot. Im Curious who will drop and who will advance. So pumped for next season
i agree with Virus YugiOh and Ensnare but not Asd this guy is dam good on par with another top terran player i hate to say this but IMO Nada is one of them that should drop down to Code-a and same to Alive this guy sometime looking dam good but in the same-time he can lose to eveyone -"- (if Clide is not the best human i 'll put him in the list too XD)
On October 20 2011 23:48 devPLEASE wrote: Is this the beginning of the downfall of oGs players?
MC had a great MLG run. Let's hope the trend continues of his move upward. He secured his Code S spot, so he doesn't have to qualify all over again. I hope he practices his PvT enough
On October 20 2011 23:07 Tppz! wrote: Thats quite interesting. I would have thought that NsHoSeo would be doing better by now. Also its sad that Prime is doing so "bad" with only MKP in Code S left.
I think (and hope) Virus, YuGiOh, asd and Ensnare drop down to Code A to make some space for better players. When I think of other Terrans to drop to Code A I cant think of anyone who deserves it even though there are so many. I also think TOP is Code S level and deserves a spot. Im Curious who will drop and who will advance. So pumped for next season
i agree with Virus YugiOh and Ensnare but not Asd this guy is dam good on par with another top terran player i hate to say this but IMO Nada is one of them that should drop down to Code-a and same to Alive this guy sometime looking dam good but in the same-time he can lose to eveyone -"- (if Clide is not the best human i 'll put him in the list too XD)
Agreed, asd is so underrated over here. MMA had to rely on gimmick strategies to beat asd. I think asd is a ro16/ro8 consistent type of player if he dosen't get placed in any groups of death. He probably can hand most code S terrans a good beatdown, maybe even Nada.
SC is a natural. I underestimated him. He's going to be around for a long long time. GJ. Disappointed by lucky. I underestimated taeja too; I thought talent was all he had. Apparently, he reads the game like a genius too.
TOP omygod my heart is so broken with these up and down. Genius Zenio TOP HongUn going down Gotta hand it over to taeja though. his game against TOP <3
Those are ordinary cycles in labor productivity, which peak as players reach their maximum potential and slide into trough afterwards, until the potential for another rise is accumulated. These cycles are universal, almost philosophical, piercing through all aspects of material world, including human psychology.
Behavioral economics FTW. Philosophy - even more FTW.
On October 21 2011 00:47 Reasonable wrote: It's not a curse, guys.
Those are ordinary cycles in labor productivity, which peak as players reach their maximum potential and slide into trough afterwards, until the potential for another rise is accumulated. These cycles are universal, almost philosophical, piercing through all aspects of material world, including human psychology.
Behavioral economics FTW. Philosophy - even more FTW.
Don't forget the "wow, I just won 25k$" in your analysis ^^
On October 21 2011 00:47 Reasonable wrote: It's not a curse, guys.
Those are ordinary cycles in labor productivity, which peak as players reach their maximum potential and slide into trough afterwards, until the potential for another rise is accumulated. These cycles are universal, almost philosophical, piercing through all aspects of material world, including human psychology.
Behavioral economics FTW. Philosophy - even more FTW.
I think more so than that, it's that people ignore the misses (Both July and Losira haven't dropped down to Code A since being the runner up, with July not even having gone to Up & Downs in the 4 Code S seasons since his finals appearance) and that people often have expectations based only on absurdly recent results. Just because someone reached the finals does not mean that getting to the finals is an average result for them, and being mediocre may actually be much closer to their average than doing well.
On October 21 2011 00:36 BarbieHsu wrote: SC is a natural. I underestimated him. He's going to be around for a long long time. GJ. Disappointed by lucky. I underestimated taeja too; I thought talent was all he had. Apparently, he reads the game like a genius too.
Taeja's one of the most adaptive Terrans out there. :D
Unfortunately, sometimes he reads too much into his opponent's actions and ends up mindgaming himself into a loss. There was a game against ForGG where ForGG went CC first and Taeja scouted that ForGG had made no raxes in his base, so Taeja immediately assumed ForGG was proxy raxing him and threw down two raxes of his own only to cancel them as soon as he saw ForGG's CC as his SCV left the base. As a result, his econ ended up being really behind, and he had to try to play catch-up.
Jesus Code S is looking beastly next season, theres only 3 or 4 players there I can see that won't be able to go toe to toe with the others (virus, ensnare, yugioh, NADA)
Ohhh poor TOP, looked like he was tilting pretty hard there I think he can refocus and put together a strong code A run though, I doubt he's a spent force. Speaking of Force, TaeJa has plenty of it! Beastly player in red hot form, grats to him!
On October 21 2011 00:36 BarbieHsu wrote: SC is a natural. I underestimated him. He's going to be around for a long long time. GJ. Disappointed by lucky. I underestimated taeja too; I thought talent was all he had. Apparently, he reads the game like a genius too.
Taeja's one of the most adaptive Terrans out there. :D
Unfortunately, sometimes he reads too much into his opponent's actions and ends up mindgaming himself into a loss. There was a game against ForGG where ForGG went CC first and Taeja scouted that ForGG had made no raxes in his base, so Taeja immediately assumed ForGG was proxy raxing him and threw down two raxes of his own only to cancel them as soon as he saw ForGG's CC as his SCV left the base. As a result, his econ ended up being really behind, and he had to try to play catch-up.
It was mostly kind of hilarious.
He should have counted the amount of SCVs supply would be 14-15 for cc first, 10-12 for proxy-rax
On October 21 2011 02:37 dgwow wrote: Jesus Code S is looking beastly next season, theres only 3 or 4 players there I can see that won't be able to go toe to toe with the others (virus, ensnare, yugioh, NADA)
On October 21 2011 02:37 dgwow wrote: Jesus Code S is looking beastly next season, theres only 3 or 4 players there I can see that won't be able to go toe to toe with the others (virus, ensnare, yugioh, NADA)
How dare you put Nada in that list.
In the past I would agree with you being like wtf why is nada on that list, but the last 2 months he seems to be slumping kind of hard. He did terribly at WCG. Hopefully he bounces bacck to his top8/top4/eventual champion skill level
On October 21 2011 02:37 dgwow wrote: Jesus Code S is looking beastly next season, theres only 3 or 4 players there I can see that won't be able to go toe to toe with the others (virus, ensnare, yugioh, NADA)
How dare you put Nada in that list.
if not becuz of Keen Nada would play in up&down for sure
Well, glad to see sC is back. Wtf happened to TOP, I guess since Nada is slumping he doesn't have the drive either? Oh well hopefully he makes it back next season and can replace Ensnare
Hmm.. no surprise there, sC and Taeja are strong right now. A little surprising about TOP but someone had to go. I personally think taking 2nd place to Mvp has caused TOP to slack off because 2nd is still a lot of money. Money that TOP likely hasnt seen in sc1 or sc2 so far. He'll be back, as soon as he starts to train again.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/HawaiianPig/GSL/genericheader.jpg)
2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Up and Down![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2243.jpg)
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Noblesse <Xel'Naga Fortress> 
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