| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
On October 12 2011 20:23 NunedQ wrote: yeah, if the prize pool is over 5k, Blizzard gets half (i think) of the ad revenue. WHAT?!?!? Dustin Browder is the Don King of Starcraft. | ||
|
TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On October 13 2011 00:59 Longshank wrote: I'm confused, how is your unwillingness to pay money for your online tournament in any way related to a mistake/tech issue over in the US or the existence of LAN? What more do you expect them to do to support your particular event? Zip up there, your bias is showing. My event isn't the issue, if you think that it is then you are somewhat small-minded. The point is that Blizzard are taking money from events that should be a) used to fund more events b) given to the players and they are doing NOTHING to deserve it. No, creating a game does not give you the god-given right to money from tournaments organised with it. I can think of no other eSports title past or present that has done this. Can anyone name one? | ||
|
NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
| ||
|
Cosmology
Canada360 Posts
On October 12 2011 20:41 roymarthyup wrote: sigh thinking more and more about this makes me so sad at how blizzard is turning into this gigantic soulless corporation. i know not everything is soulless, but this one concept is just insane how they take the money that comes from other peoples hard work of creating and running a tournament im high masters practicing alot cuz i wanna compete in tournamants for fun but i dunno how i feel about supporting such a concept... i just dont feel its fair for blizzard to take cuts from tournaments that they didnt create and build i hope some company comes around and designs a super good esports game and doesnt charge money for tournaments to use it or heck, blizzard with its billions of dollars should simply buy-out MLG and gomtv and every other tournament and simply run it themselves, and by that i mean blizzard would also be buying out all the employees of those other companies and having them run it for them. I could actually support such a concept. If blizzard is running its own tournament, then sure, it gets all the money from it. I find that fair. And if blizzard buys out all the tournaments then it would make sense for them to get all the revenue from it. I see no problem with that. But what blizzard is doing is taking cuts of tournament profits without buying out those tournaments... They are getting a cut of other peoples hard work... Sigh this concept i dont know if i can bring myself to support it The tournament runners get a cut of Blizzard's hard work making the game. They get money from micro transactions in D3, Subscriptions in WoW and tournament income from SC. | ||
|
Grampz
United States2147 Posts
| ||
|
Rizell
Sweden237 Posts
On October 13 2011 00:03 TotalBiscuit wrote: And it can't be substantiated, ever, unless Blizzard comes out and admits it, because if you agree to it, you get put under an NDA about it. I have my source, but in order to substantiate it I would have to reveal that source and the fact that they violated their NDA by telling me. Of course I'm not going to do that. From what I can tell, any conversation with Blizzard on the subject gets NDAed before it even begins, so if you don't decide to play ball, you still can't talk about it. No surprise it's NDAed, considering how unpopular a notion it is. If Blizzard wants that kind of money, they should probably do a little more to support their events. They could start by not black-listing entire venues internet connections and doing the sensible thing and implementing LAN. Then they might actually deserve that money. Just wanted to highlight this again.. quite sick | ||
|
Gingerninja
United Kingdom1339 Posts
Until then, we are subject to whatever terms these companies force on us for using their stuff. Don't get me wrong I love starcraft, but as much as it's community driven (which i think it could be even further as far as patches went.. using the editor to change the balance and saving special versions of the maps for that reason.) we're still tied to our need for blizzard to do everything, and because they have to do everything for us, it's their right to make money from it. Hence why its not an open source game and there is no lan, they have complete control, they just give us permission to use it. | ||
|
darkest44
United States1009 Posts
On October 12 2011 20:36 ReaperX wrote: Apparently 50% of Ad Revenue. That is utterly ridiculous and disgusting if true or even anywhere close to true. They are already getting incredible free advertising for their game, not to mention every player/caster/observer in the tournaments have already paid them $60 for their game copy so they can log in and play in the tournament and they still need to take half the ad revenue from these much smaller companies running tournaments? Starcraft games would not sell half as well without esports around it and the game would die out far sooner without esports instead of still sell copies 5-10 years later like BW did. Blizzard has become such a scumbag greedy company since joining Activision and bobby kotick. This company already makes hundreds of millions of dollars a month from WoW subscriptions alone, forget about game sales and all the other stuff, the last thing they need to do is stick their greedy hands in the pockets of struggling companies 1/100th the size running tournaments, trying to grow esports while blizzard does jack all except run the yearly blizzcon tourney. Disgusting. | ||
|
Neurosis
United States893 Posts
If you look at Diablo 3 they're pulling a similar trick. Instead of monthly subscriptions or esports they're now offering the real money auction house. Every time someone makes a sale over the AH Blizz gets a small cut. Once again, the goal seems to be to try and gain a more long term profit rather than simply just the sales off boxed copies. From a business standpoint it just doesn't make much sense to create games that don't offer long term money when they already have such a massive cash cow like WoW. | ||
|
Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On October 13 2011 03:45 IMSmooth wrote: God damn kids and their skateboards!!! Playin that rap music and loitering too!!! Blizzard has the right to do this. They control the servers and probably have something to secure this right in Terms of Agreement. It's depressing to buy music on iTunes? What kind of entitled asshole are you? feeding companies such as apple is always depressive things like blizzard's corporate rock band for instance makes me vomit i'm very fine beeing an asshole feeling this way | ||
|
ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: No, creating a game does not give you the god-given right to money from tournaments organised with it. I can think of no other eSports title past or present that has done this. Can anyone name one? Man, I am a total fan, but i really can't see your point here. Tournaments make money for organizers and sponsors. They use games and it's players to bring audience. So unless there isn't a fee paid to the game creators, the actual content of the tournament, there is a win win situation for the tournament organizers. It's like I buy 1000 movies, work hard on a fancy website and charge money for subscriptions. I could argue all day long that I worked hard to make the website, because in the end it doesn't matter. The product is not mine. My website would not exist without it's content, that i did not create. | ||
|
Tehs Tehklz
United States330 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: Zip up there, your bias is showing. My event isn't the issue, if you think that it is then you are somewhat small-minded. The point is that Blizzard are taking money from events that should be a) used to fund more events b) given to the players and they are doing NOTHING to deserve it. No, creating a game does not give you the god-given right to money from tournaments organised with it. I can think of no other eSports title past or present that has done this. Can anyone name one? How about "tournament organizers are taking money that should be a) used to fund more game development b) given to the game developers". Blizzard created the game. Their money, their time, their work. They get to decide how other people get to profit from it. Should Blizzard be taking this money? Would the StarCraft 2 competitive world be better off if Blizzard did not require their cut? I have a hard time imagining SC2 getting bigger, faster than it already has, but I don't know. Really, I have no idea. However, if Blizzard's contribution to these tournaments is so negligible that they shouldn't get any money, tournament organizers should simply find another game, one of the many whose companies don't charge. Except that spectators don't want to watch another game. Spectators want to watch Blizzard's game. So, Blizzard has obviously made a significant contribution to these tournaments. On October 13 2011 05:51 darkest44 wrote: That is utterly ridiculous and disgusting if true or even anywhere close to true. They are already getting incredible free advertising for their game and they need to take half the ad revenue from these much smaller companies running tournaments? Starcraft games would not sell half as well without esports around it and the game would die out far sooner without esports instead of still sell copies 5-10 years later like BW did. Blizzard has become such a scumbag greedy company since joining Activision and bobby kotick. This company already makes hundreds of millions of dollars a month from WoW subscriptions alone, forget about game sales and all the other stuff, the last thing they need to do is stick their greedy hands in the pockets of struggling companies 1/100th the size running tournaments, trying to grow esports while blizzard does jack all except run the yearly blizzcon tourney. Disgusting. Then find a new game - a better game - for which to host tournaments. Go ahead. Do it right now. I'll wait here and you let me know when you find one. | ||
|
darkest44
United States1009 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:00 Neurosis wrote: Think of it this way. WoW pulls in a ton of constant profit because of subscriptions. Blizz somehow needed to think up a way to make SC2 at least somewhat comparable in terms of long term revenue. Sure they would make a good profit off of selling boxed copies at 60 dollars a pop, but that isn't a constant profit such as WoW. Advertising SC2 as an esport and then dipping into the tournament funds could potentially offer a comparable long term profit. If you look at Diablo 3 they're pulling a similar trick. Instead of monthly subscriptions or esports they're now offering the real money auction house. Every time someone makes a sale over the AH Blizz gets a small cut. Once again, the goal seems to be to try and gain a more long term profit rather than simply just the sales off boxed copies. From a business standpoint it just doesn't make much sense to create games that don't offer long term money when they already have such a massive cash cow like WoW. How does it not make sense to create games that make huge profits just from box sales? That describes like 95% of the gaming industry, which apparently doesn't make sense. SC2 is not a mmo, it doesn't need to be milked like one, it made a profit the first day of its release. Not to mention it continues to sell copies because of its large community/success and it already got split 3 ways so they are in for 2 more huge pay days with hots/protoss expansion and that is plenty incentive to keep patching and keep people playing so they buy the next expansions. There are thousands and thousands of games that get patched/updated without a "constant stream of revenue" besides box sales or even expansions coming out for them.. where did this idea come that you don't make a profit unless you charge a monthly fee in some form or other rofl. The sad thing is blizzard never had this idea that every game has to be milked to the nth degree and provide constant profits besides box sales long long after its released until activision/bobby kotick took over. Just look up bobby kotick and see how his quotes directly reflect on blizzards new greedy policies. Yes blizzard has a right to do this, but we can call them out for being insanely greedy for it. Blizzard used to be a company with heart that actually cared about their games and communities, not just making their rich owners ridiculously richer at the expense of small companies who are propping their game up for years by making it an esport. | ||
Conquerer67
United States605 Posts
I'm not sure of the exact percentage though, but they get they get their money in the form of tournament licenses. | ||
|
Tehs Tehklz
United States330 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:08 Conquerer67 wrote: I'm pretty sure that they get a small cut if the total prize pool is more than $5000. I'm not sure of the exact percentage though, but they get they get their money in the form of tournament licenses. You haven't read this thread at all, have you? | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 13 2011 04:07 jinorazi wrote: blizzard's claim (and advocates) regarding paid name change along with lack of LAN and no cross region play has been debunked by the community by providing better alternatives and more reasonable motive behind why blizzard did what they did with sc2. (id like to keep this short, explaining those will create a long post, pm if you'd like to hear those) Wait, I am confused. You stay that their claims have been debunked by the community providing alternatives. So the community has said "It would be better THIS way" and that makes Blizzards reasoning invalid. How the hell does that work exactly? I go into buy milk and they say it is $2 and I inform them "Look, Ive done the math and I know why our charging $2. Let me provide the reasonable alternative of $1, because what you are looking for isn't acceptable". That doesn't sound like something that would fly in the real world. I would never argue that they don't want money and I am sure there is a bit of "Yeah, well we know they want this to be free, but we are charging for it." But still, I want money, so do they. They arn't charging me monthly or expecting me to pay per game. | ||
|
TheBomb
237 Posts
On October 13 2011 03:35 Zerksys wrote: For those who still support blizzard's management of sc2 as an esport, I'd like to say this. If you really think about it, do you really believe that blizzard has the best interests of sc2 as an esport in mind? In my opinion blizzard sees esports as just another way to generate some cash flow off their game. They don't really give a shit if it survives or not. If you look at what they've done since the release, you'll see that they've openly said that they've designed the game for esports, but in reality this is not the case at all. No lan support, no chat channels, patches major patches every 2 months, forcing tournament organizers to pay outrageous fees, not running a tournament themselves (which I would love to see), not putting money into esports, etc.... Blizzard is not a company that wants to support esports. They don't see the intrinsic value in it at all. Compare blizzard to a company like riot and you'll see. True riot has terrible servers and alltogether made a worse game than blizzard, but look at what they've done with it. It's an esport in its own right because riot has supported it with their own money. On top of that playing the game is free and revenue is generated completely by players who want to support them because they are a great company. Don't get me wrong I love the starcraft franchise and it will always be my favorite, but the way that riot runs their business is reminiscent of the old days of blizzard (if they existed in the same form today). In summary, yes blizzard needs to make money, but do they need to take so much money from its most loyal supporters? I completely agree with this as well. Yes Blizzard is a business and wants to make money, we all get that, some of us have or had businesses themselves or maybe will have. The point here is that Blizzard doesn't support e-sports, they've never had. Everything that has been created out of Blizzard games like e-sports from Brood War and Dota style games from WC3 editor its all been user created, blizzard had no clue about anything. Now they are abusing the same community that made them great and recognizable and they are abusing it. They didn't put LAN in there because they just want to make money out it and if there is LAN no one in their right mind would pay Blizzard to host a tournament so they are forcing this online crap so that tournament organizers have to pay a fee to them. They developed name changes and even put it once into the game, but now want to charge you for what should be a free and standard feature. As far as I see it they are extorting money out of the tournament organizers by denying them the options to host an offline event. To me it seems as Blizzard have an unfair advantage over the issue as actually implementing LAN would be cheaper and shorter than not implementing LAN. These days LAN support is rudimentary to implement. | ||
Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:35 TheBomb wrote: I completely agree with this as well. Yes Blizzard is a business and wants to make money, we all get that, some of us have or had businesses themselves or maybe will have. The point here is that Blizzard doesn't support e-sports, they've never had. Everything that has been created out of Blizzard games like e-sports from Brood War and Dota style games from WC3 editor its all been user created, blizzard had no clue about anything. Now they are abusing the same community that made them great and recognizable and they are abusing it. They didn't put LAN in there because they just want to make money out it and if there is LAN no one in their right mind would pay Blizzard to host a tournament so they are forcing this online crap so that tournament organizers have to pay a fee to them. They developed name changes and even put it once into the game, but now want to charge you for what should be a free and standard feature. As far as I see it they are extorting money out of the tournament organizers by denying them the options to host an offline event. To me it seems as Blizzard have an unfair advantage over the issue as actually implementing LAN would be cheaper and shorter than not implementing LAN. These days LAN support is rudimentary to implement. Bolded the part I am responding to in particular. I do not think that this is a point we can discuss. There is no advantage in this issue, there is only whether Blizzard want to or do not want to. It is their game. Whether it is smart or not to do what they do is a different argument altogether, but for the sake of clarity, this is not a negotiation. | ||
|
Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:45 Grampz wrote: So blizz is making all of this money from the tournaments they don't run, and they can't even fix battle.net 2.0...WTF Why work or balance things when you can swim in your swimming pool and read all the haters on the forum? ^^ Jk jk jk, I guess they'll save that for the upcoming expansions. | ||
|
qyk05328
Germany635 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:51 Gingerninja wrote: The only way I can ever see it improving, if is a Global ESports company were to be formed. (think KESPA type thing, but larger.. less.. dodgy) and they commissioned some developers to make, Esport RTS, Esport FPS ESport Fighter.. that way we could actually have a sport.. as it were, that didn't rely on companies whose first priority is profit. We're a grass roots sport, thats based on using current for profit titles, and without warning, blizzard could pull the plug on starcraft.. much like activision did on its "hugely popular" guitar hero series.. and we are shit out of luck, game is unplayable without battle.net and the corporation say so. Until then, we are subject to whatever terms these companies force on us for using their stuff. Don't get me wrong I love starcraft, but as much as it's community driven (which i think it could be even further as far as patches went.. using the editor to change the balance and saving special versions of the maps for that reason.) we're still tied to our need for blizzard to do everything, and because they have to do everything for us, it's their right to make money from it. Hence why its not an open source game and there is no lan, they have complete control, they just give us permission to use it. I have thought about the same thing and strongly agree with this sentiment. Starcraft 2 is so fun to watch not because of the game itself (which pretty much all agree is mediocre) but because it served as a focal point of a large community of very talented people, generating a (so far) self-sustainable ecosystem of players, casters and advertisers. If some other company (or organization) would be able to bring these people together, I would think it is entirely feasible to achieve similar success. It's the community that makes SC so great, not Blizzard's stellar technology or creativity. Lots of indie developers with shoestring budgets have already demonstrated to be capable of making games that are engine-wise on par with SC2's multiplayer, lots of them actually surpass it. Still, I don't really see a way to unite enough people to stand behind a new, unproven game, you need some authority figure to coalesce the unwashed masses into sticking with it long enough to create a competitive scene. And as far as the hope that Activision/Blizzard's enlightened self-interest will help the future of esports, I would like to remind you the immortal words of Bobby Kotick himself. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Britney Dota 2  33237Flash  3605Jaedong  2291Bisu 2231Horang2 2002firebathero 829ggaemo 825actioN 775PianO 677BeSt 676[ Show more ] Counter-Strike Other Games B2W.Neo1153 DeMusliM877 crisheroes490 RotterdaM209 Livibee170 mouzStarbuck167 Hui .75 ArmadaUGS52 nookyyy  12Organizations Counter-Strike StarCraft 2 Other Games StarCraft: Brood War StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War |
|
Replay Cast
Wardi Open
The PondCast
Wardi Open
OSC
OSC
CranKy Ducklings
Online Event
Korean StarCraft League
OlimoLeague
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
