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Didn't see a thread on this.
A small town in Alabama is allowing those convicted of nonviolent crimes to attend church for a year to avoid jail time or paying a fine. They have to check in with an officer every week during the year. (Edit: Small town = population 7,000).
The ACLU raised concerns about separation of church and state, but the police chief said that since the church time is optional, it doesn't violate the spirit of the separation (or specifically in the U.S., the no establishment clause).
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=us_t2
This is really interesting to me because as many Americans and non-Americans, I think our prison system puts way too many people behind bars. It costs a lot, and society is not necessarily safer when a grocery store thief goes to jail.
But I'm also an atheist and feel that a much much better, more logical, less stupid alternative could be devised, any type of community service really. I still like the spirit, because I assume the idea is make the offender less likely to commit crime rather than save his ever loving soul, but I'm not even sure that a small church in a small town will really help that much. But maybe.
And who knows if it will be shot down anyway. The experimentation, is interesting though.
What are your thoughts on these ideas / the story itself? And it may be too much to ask but preventing religious arguments would be nice, but mentioning religion and it's actual effects in this case will obviously be necessary.
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I don't think that this will catch-up in other places because if it does in a way you can just steal from people and have a million year "church" sentence. And with that being said I'd choose church over jail any day.
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On September 28 2011 20:01 pred470r wrote:
I don't think that this will catch-up in other places because if it does in a way you can just steal from people and have a million year "church" sentence. And with that being said I'd choose church over jail any day.
I am with the OP on this one, if you put someone behind bars, even the most successful person can become a liability to society.
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I'm all for more rehabilitation in the American justice system, even if it is religious based. But if I already go to church does that mean I get leniency for petty crimes whereas non-christians don't?
Sorry if this is answered in the article but my internet keeps dying... hard enough to surf TL.
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United States41471 Posts
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
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On September 28 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
I read the article and it sounds like this is only available at a Christian church as there are no mosques, synagogs, or etc. in the area. I don't see this spread to many other cities, because honestly what happens when someone wants to choose Scientology; or worse Pastafarianism or Tarvu for that matter?
Given a 30 day drug program or the opportunity for some other misdemeanor diversion program I might still take those, as Church every Sunday for a year in a small Alabama town would be kind of like 52 days of prison spread out over a year.
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I'd rather go to jail for 2-3 weeks than to church for a year
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On September 28 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
Definitely agree. I can definitely see why this would fly in a small town in Alabama but not NYC for example. But if they did a system that allowed any religion (let's say, "peace promoting ideology or something stupid), I would support it at least more than jailing everyone for anything. Even if it's still a silly solution, people might like it.
On September 28 2011 20:07 teddyoojo wrote:
I'd rather go to jail for 2-3 weeks than to church for a year
Honestly, I might too. But not everyone would, and the beneficial part to me is saving money on jail.
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On September 28 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
How would it work for atheists? Go to... uhm a class in science?
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In France, we have what we call "community service" (dunno if this is the correct way to translate it). People who did small robbery or anything that is not a big crime can be forced to work for the country during a time corresponding with the thing they did (as a civil servant in a town). I think they cannot choose between jail and that.
It seems rather similar as i can see. It's not a bad idea but in France there is a lot of issues with this system because some judges overuse it a bit and sometimes it's more of a way to decrease some stats more than to let a person have a second chance.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On September 28 2011 20:01 pred470r wrote:
I don't think that this will catch-up in other places because if it does in a way you can just steal from people and have a million year "church" sentence. And with that being said I'd choose church over jail any day. Hmm I think you've missed the entire point of such schemes. These schemes are for: very minor crimes, most likely for someone's primary offence. A repeat offender will no doubt be chucked into jail. A murderer will hardly do "church time". A murderer will be thrown into jail.
That said, I think this is quite interesting and kinda... fresh? But the efficacy is yet to be seen. One thing we know for sure is that prison is just a place to make people more bitter and ensure inmates come out ready to transgress again.
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In some less fortunate parts of the world god-fearing is still a synonym for moral.
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Absolutely ridiculous. Either put them in jail, or give them community service + probation.
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While it is a step in the right direction it's still.... hmm, not sure how to phrase it. It is true that penalizing petty crimes with jail time can turn minor offenders into hardened criminals, but some form of community service would be much more preferential to church time. Also the dillema about non-christians is pretty valid, it can be seen as preferential treatment or an attempt to convert people.
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This is such a terrible idea unfortunately. Very culture and community specific.
I dont see this becoming popular.
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On September 28 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
Did you just call atheism a religion? Or was that a troll I can't figure out?
By all means, atheism is no religion.
And this is why I think this "way of punishment" sucks, because if you don't believe in god you are basically discriminated against your feeling about religion. You'd have to betray yourself and your own thoughts just to avoid prison.
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this sounds like another way to force a religion on someone, going to church once a week won't stop you commiting crime lol.
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On September 28 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
As long as you can do it for every religion (atheism included) then sure, whatever works for them. If you can only do it for Christianity then it's giving Christians preferential penal treatment which is obviously unfair.
In which case I demand to be released into the custody of the Church of my religion, icecreamtology. The church is my house and I am required by my faith to consume five pounds of icecream every sunday.
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You obviously do not understand how separation of church and state works.
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How is going to church once a week even remotely comparable to being behind bars. Sure i'd imagine it's pretty damn boring but this serves no social cause like community service would and it doesn't take away a persons freedom as punishment. This is punishing the high school bully by making him go to the library once a week, it makes little sense.
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I am not a big fan of this since it is pretty much a get out of jail pass for minor crimes for a regular church-goer. It would have made more sense if it was a choice between community service and jail time.
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EPT
