EPTTL Mafia V: The Wrath of KHAAAAAANN
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On December 31 2008 07:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ace its the information that is gathered from it, In the case of the insane DT you gain more information from lynching the accused than the accuser, that is clear as day, and the fact you dont see it, or are refusing to a) makes you the VI or b) mafia as well. Same as game 3, we have no choice but to lynch the accuser. It's always the best option, especially with insane dts in the game. Ace has covered the logic already in his posts, but if you want more go to game 3 and read my posts in there. There's another reason to lynch BC, because this was such a dumb move by him if he was the dt, behaviourally I have to imagine that he isn't the dt. This leaves him as either Village Idiot or mafia. Lynching either is a good thing. If he flips VI, he gets his personal win and there'll be less derailment. If he's mafia well we all know that's a good thing. And then the crux of the matter, If he truly is a detective he will very likely die tonight. Mafia don't seem to have a habit of leaving them around if you've noticed. If he's insane and we lynch mikey, we lost a townie/blue, and then we lose the dt at night. Logically, lynching BC gives us the most info for the smallest loss, that's what it comes down to. And then behaviourally what he did makes no sense which is usually a good sign something is up. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On December 31 2008 08:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As you said, say mafia does kill me tonight, what has that accomplished, lets see I am sane DT A)mikey is red and dies b) I die tonight unless protected I am insane DT a)mikey is green dies (shit) b)the other dt's know if they are sane or not c) mikey's staunch defenders using rather flawed logic are almost certaintly red d) I die at night unless protected Nice fleshing out of option two to make it look better than it is. B and C are kind of irrelevant. If you read the beginning of game 3 again I was making the same arguments there as I did here. Yes Ace turned out to be mafia and Folca did turn out to be a dt, that was basically shit luck. And then you're forgetting options 3 and 4: You are mafia: - You could be godfather roleclaiming dt in case you get checked - You could just be mafia (Much more likely if it's this option) You are village idiot - Good to lynch you because you'll just stir shit as the game goes on if you're kept alive. in 3 of those 4 possibilities, it screws us to lynch mikey over you. In 2 of those 4 possibilities, it is worthwhile to kill you. Now something you haven't addressed is your behaviour. Why, why after so many people asked dts NOT to jump out on day 1, did you do this if you were a DT. Not only that you picked a dude that other DTs were unlikely to have picked themselves and thus couldn't speak up against you. Because lets face it, dts are more likely to be investigating Ace/Ver than mikeymoo. Also, all this stuff about finding out the sanity of dts by cross checking dt checks. There's a much easier way that was put forward last game so it's not like it's anything new, just rolecheck the guy who's about to be lynched. That way you don't need any huge webs of crosschecked dt rolechecks who then become public knowledge and killed by mafia. Again, logic says we should lynch you and behaviour says something is up. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On December 31 2008 08:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Anyone who has talked to my outside mafia games knows that I hold mikeymoo, plexa, MTF, and camlitos in alot higher regard than Ver and Ace. Ace from my experience has had a decent strategy in Mafia 2, but was the mouth piece of the clue analyzers. In mafia 3 he was red advocating we lynch folca to save his own skin, last game he got random picked out by RoL. Ver has had decent writeups from what ive seen, and also behaviour analyzes, but as the town manage to completely botch aces mafia, my respect of him isn't that high. Mikey I have played with directly and know his ability(he was in the same circle i was in winning mafia 3), same with camlitos(plexa and mtf arent playing). I figured the chances of caller picking camlitos again for mafia were slim so i checked Mikey. As for my behaviour? In everygame i have honestly roleclaimed, go look at aces game, mafia 3, and last game, i said i was green. I was all cases. Mafia 2 i claimed vig to ace which i was. I play everygame in a way to give the town best chances for survival, not my own personal gain, count that into your analysis. As for what your offering in terms of role checking someone about to be lynched to determine? That means every dt has to do this once. This way, only one of us has to. Now lets flip this around as you want me to. If i was godfather, I would never roleclaim dt first day, its guarenteed that i die either with first or second lynch. Meaning id never get to use my recruitment abilities. As for regular mafia I have stated earlier it would be easier and smarter to just claim i was speaking for a DT then get someone lynched, then if it goes poorly, sell out X, they get lynched then i get lynched. Seriously half the shit that goes on in this game is dictated by players such as ace and ver, who because they have played this more than us, or have had one amazing game that people see them as the best players. Ace rarely changes up his play, and if people go against him he whines and stops playing and then posts to stir shit up. Learn to think people. Things like roleclaiming in previous games is irrelevant there's no point bringing it up as proof that you are legitimate in this game. New roles, new affiliations, everything changes. The godfather thing was more for completeness than anything else. leaving us at this again: in 3 of those 4 possibilities, it screws us to lynch mikey over you. In 2 of those 4 possibilities, it is worthwhile to kill you. The biggest issue with the behaviour is that you jumped out, on day 1. You could have pm'd 2 people you knew were posting and used them as your mouth, much safer than just coming straight out to everyone and even possible to catch out another mafia if one of them refuses to speak for you. You could have waited one more day and had another check to put out on the table. Mikeymoo really wouldn't have been able to accomplish much, not with the more vocal players making their points. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On December 31 2008 11:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Behaviour from previous games is important here however, as it defines how people play almost game to game. Ace has played exactly the same everygame, with the difference that if hes mafia and called on it, he starts to spaz a little and slips up. Otherwise he just gets angry. Bringing up my previous gaming experiences is more a reflection on how i play, which is always to the same goal. Then you say i should use mouth pieces? Early day 1, that is a safer route but less legitimate to prove yourself as you first have to prove the people your a DT, and in a pm there is no risk to yourself really, as its your word vs theres and pm's can be photoshopped. Using a mouth piece is less logical than someone taking the risk and getting lynched, as there is almost no risk to yourself but no credibility either. By doing it in the open you put yourself on the same chopping block, which no intelligent mafia will do, and the VI's best interest revolve working with the town to ensure a victory then have town lynch them just before that happens. Only being a DT would correlate to this way of playing. I didn't say disregard everything from previous games, only things like the truthfulness of your previous roleclaims. For example, you cannot say "Because I roleclaimed true in other mafia games, I am roleclaiming true this game" it just doesn't work. There are elements of playstyle that do transfer from game to game yes, but they can't be used as proof of legitimacy in future games. You still have to prove that you're a dt now. I still have no proof that you're a dt. All I have is your word, same as if you had used a mouthpiece. Just with a mouthpiece the mafia are exponentially less likely to know who the dt is (unless you get unlucky and pick a mafia mouthpiece, hence why you pm two people, still a risk but yeah you get my point). Oh btw, and this isn't directed at you BC, it's just that writing this post reminded me of this, in the last few games people seem to be pulling the "I have told you multiple times I am a townie, I am a townie, you must have realised this by now" card, just please, please make sure everyone you don't listen to these people. In fact if someone even tries to say something like this it's suspicious. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On December 31 2008 13:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You did use skewed logic. In a game where as a DT i could be insane, more information is gained from the accused death than the accuser. With my death nothin is certain at all about the accused but my blue role. You seem to forget that. As for analyzing your playstyle, thats a general rundown of it and you know it. Regardless, it comes down to the choice of the town to believe two players who both have claimed blue, one openly to help the town, the other to help himself. Lynch me and a blue dies tonight, Lynch mikey and a green/red dies. pretty simple Except mikey is saying he's blue, which paints you as mafia/village idiot. We have as much reason to believe him as you? | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
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Bockit
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'no I'm a <rolename>' | ||
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Bockit
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
Speak of the devil... | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On January 02 2009 14:21 mikeymoo wrote: nevake: could we get a big long post about everything that happened, with as many details as you can remember? This. I tend at this stage to trust nevake is the zombie, mafia shouldn't be trading themselves 1:1 or they aren't going to do very well and he is advocating his own lynch pretty strongly. Not sure yet if I see LucasWoj as mafia, as mikey said, we need more details. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On January 03 2009 10:05 HeRoS)Pink wrote: If u guys lynch me you are going to waste another lynch 2/2 good job town Good defense! | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
Seeing as by creating a zombie we get a vigi hit of sorts I like the idea of lynching nevake/lucas in one go. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
<3 Green townie. Coincidentally I've been green townie every time except one stint as mafia. Also Attackzerg should be banned from the next few games imho after what he did with the RoL thing; directly influencing the game like that as a dead player is lame. EDIT: On January 06 2009 15:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Like I said, we have different views on this matter, neither of us are going to change ours. What you just suggested involves a lot of luck guessing on mafia part, they basically have to say "Okay, pick random guy, hope hes a good role and its worth my head" I think that you are right, that a mafia could fake being a DT and out one of his own guys for trust and that no one will check him. Its a fucking BALLZY move. Requires mafia sacrifice, however I also think that after it happens one game and works, everyone will question the day 1/2 role calls. We will learn as games progress, and for the record, most people seem to agree with my logic :D But I can see where you are coming from, I just disagree about who it benefits in whatever situation. You don't have to have a role to be a key player. To elaborate, the fact that there is a list of players that gets checked at the beginning of every game is proof of this. | ||
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
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