• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:35
CET 22:35
KST 06:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
Foreign Brood War Let's talk about Metropolis BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1678 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-25 20:25:27
September 23 2013 18:23 GMT
#1
Update: See this thread.

We've been considering putting together an off-season patch that could follow the WCS Finals at BlizzCon, in hopes of increasing diversity in StarCraft II. Before we make any big decisions, we’d like to play some balance test maps with you, to see how some stark changes play out. As always, this isn’t final. This is testing.

So here are the changes we're currently considering testing:

Mech ground and air attack upgrades combined

We've been looking at this for a long time now, and it feels like a solid step in the right direction.

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Mech/Air upgrade buff?

Thumbs up (1341)
 
63%

Thumbs down (617)
 
29%

No thumbs (182)
 
9%

2140 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Mech/Air upgrade buff?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Widow mine splash radius decreased from 1.75 to 1.1

We'd like to push out the Widow Mine a little bit and bump up the Siege Tank so that bio play becomes more interesting. Ultimately, we believe a mix of Widow Mines and Siege Tanks with your bio army will be a lot more fun to watch than just Widow Mines with bio alone.

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Widow Mine nerf?

Thumbs up (1663)
 
70%

Thumbs down (594)
 
25%

No thumbs (109)
 
5%

2366 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Widow Mine nerf?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7

Bio play may be more interesting with the Widow Mine change and this buff. Not only that, we believe Terran mech armies can be a lot more viable because faster attack speed naturally means Siege Tanks will be better against their hard counters.

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Siege Tank buff?

Thumbs up (1543)
 
76%

Thumbs down (402)
 
20%

No thumbs (94)
 
5%

2039 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Siege Tank buff?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Oracle cost decreased from 150/150 to 150/100

Protoss feels like it has been playing too defensively (outside of Warp Prism harasses). We’re seeing Oracles only being used in the early game, and not much during any other stage of the game. We hope by reducing the gas cost of the Oracle, they’ll be used more throughout the game.

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Oracle buff?

Thumbs down (1230)
 
54%

Thumbs up (849)
 
37%

No thumbs (190)
 
8%

2269 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Oracle buff?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Dark Templar movement speed increased from 2.813 to 3.375

We believe that Dark Templars could be more interesting to watch if it's not just a matter of the opponent being prepared or not. Even when their opponents are prepared, we believe by increasing Dark Templar’s movement speed, there could be more interesting interactions, such as dodging out of detection range more often

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Dark Templar buff?

Thumbs down (1631)
 
61%

Thumbs up (922)
 
35%

No thumbs (114)
 
4%

2667 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Dark Templar buff?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Roach speed upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25

We just don’t see Tunneling Claws coming into play much. There’s some really cool micro potential with burrow-moving Roaches, and we'd like to see how this goes in a test map.

+ Show Spoiler [Poll] +
Poll: First impression of Roach buff?

Thumbs up (1636)
 
78%

Thumbs down (358)
 
17%

No thumbs (112)
 
5%

2106 total votes

Your vote: First impression of Roach buff?

(Vote): Thumbs up
(Vote): Thumbs down
(Vote): No thumbs



Again -- none of these are final adjustments, and we’re considering others. We're probably going to publish a balance test map soon, so please give us your feedback as soon as possible.

As always, thank you very much!


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10038734466#1
Facebook Twitter Reddit
MMA: The true King of Wings
GreenMash
Profile Joined August 2012
Norway1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:25:01
September 23 2013 18:24 GMT
#2
DT change so Random WTF. All the other changes seem cool though
I love hellbats
NovaMB
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany9534 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:26:08
September 23 2013 18:24 GMT
#3
Dark Templar as fast as speed Warp Prisms? That sounds like a bad idea.

I think the splash decrease is a bit too drastic, the tank buff might be neat, dunno.

Cheaper Oracles for even more Toss all-ins? Yeah right..
Yamato
Profile Joined February 2010
United States33 Posts
September 23 2013 18:25 GMT
#4
Whoa what the....not what I expected. Nothing to help carriers though?
frontline-
Profile Joined March 2012
Bulgaria281 Posts
September 23 2013 18:26 GMT
#5
And here comes the complains about Protoss getting buffs!

Obviously only T/Z should be buffed
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:27:09
September 23 2013 18:26 GMT
#6
Keep in mind this is what they want to test. Nothing here is final. I wonder how big of a deal 3 to 2.7 attack speed is.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
September 23 2013 18:26 GMT
#7
fast dts and cheep oracles sounds good to me!
i think the mine radius is a good nerf too.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
sacade
Profile Joined January 2013
166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:55:23
September 23 2013 18:26 GMT
#8
tank buff

edit:
Mech ground and air attack upgrades combined: no need

Widow mine splash radius decreased from 1.75 to 1.1: good thing but maybe too much.

Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7: hell it's about time !

Oracle cost decreased from 150/150 to 150/100: That will improve cheese, not late game use

Dark Templar movement speed : no need; Maybe a slight buff is alright but definitely not that much

Roach speed upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25: we never see it use so why not?
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
September 23 2013 18:26 GMT
#9
they should just give DTs blink already.
"See you space cowboy"
VmY
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands1286 Posts
September 23 2013 18:27 GMT
#10
A change to the tank. Thank you based Blizzard.

DT change, hmm, they already seem to move out of detection range quite a few times (Especially in the chaos created by having them at multiple bases), interested to see how that works out in the tests.
Why can't I quit you, siege tank? FanTaSy, Mvp.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3370 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:28:21
September 23 2013 18:27 GMT
#11
A minor tank buff in exchange for crippling mine splash?
I can't believe I ever defended Blizzard sanity.

And nice to see a 'stfu about mech already' change.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
September 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#12
Cant this post be moved to the Designated Balance Discussion Thread?
kinsky
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany368 Posts
September 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#13
seems legit besides dt buff. wtf?! and i think the radius nerf is a bit to harsh.
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:42:00
September 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#14
the Tunneling claws change sounds hillarious but perhaps not very balanced. I dont understand the dt change at all, why make cheese more powerful/forgiving? if you mess up and move into detection range you should be punished for it. Love the WM change, It'll make pushing onto creep for T a lot harder .


The siege tank buff wont change much in TvZ but perhaps improve mech somewhat in TvP.

air and ground upgrades combined; I dont know kev... on one hand, mech could use a buff, on the other hand, skyterran is so incredibly strong (Id say op but we never see skyterran in progames ever ) I dont think it should be any easier to transition into Sky.

SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#15
Added polls to the OP.
MMA: The true King of Wings
ReMinD_
Profile Joined May 2013
Croatia846 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:30:02
September 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#16
What's with protoss buffs?

Obviously, only T/Z should be buffed!

But seriously, I don't like these changes too much. What exactly do they accomplish?
Parting: Well, even I can make better maps than these.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
September 23 2013 18:29 GMT
#17
Fast DTs and Fast burrowed roaches, some weird ass shit right there.
I like the upgrades and oracle buff though
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
September 23 2013 18:29 GMT
#18
Well protoss is going to be alot more annoying in teamgames. The two most common toss openings in 3:3 are buffed.
The terran changes seems quite fine since the "look away for a second and lose all your lings" should be decreased.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
coL.hendralisk
Profile Joined September 2009
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
September 23 2013 18:29 GMT
#19
Why buff protoss wth
ujonecro
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom846 Posts
September 23 2013 18:29 GMT
#20
Dt speed is already enough especially now when they are dirt cheap. Make protoss more cheesy? What an awesome change David, clap clap. Unfuckingbelievable. Next balance patch: DTs dont cost gas because protoss needs more harras
1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason179
ProTech142
IndyStarCraft 140
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18740
Dewaltoss 115
Oya187 14
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Foxcn178
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu456
Other Games
Grubby6232
B2W.Neo409
shahzam401
ArmadaUGS162
ToD110
C9.Mang0102
Livibee73
ZombieGrub43
XaKoH 35
Chillindude12
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV155
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21752
League of Legends
• Nemesis3533
• TFBlade592
Other Games
• imaqtpie3673
• WagamamaTV438
• Shiphtur132
Upcoming Events
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2h 25m
The PondCast
12h 25m
WardiTV 2025
14h 25m
StarCraft2.fi
19h 25m
WardiTV 2025
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Sziky vs JDConan
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
3 days
Tarson vs DragOn
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.