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StarCraft 2: What's The Problem

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
September 20 2013 18:40 GMT
#1
This article examines some of the problems of StarCraft 2, and suggests a few fixes or possible solutions. These are just my thoughts; they could be right or wrong. There has been a lot of discussion about the decline of StarCraft 2. Some people have a doom and gloom attitude and say the game is dying, others point to increased viewer numbers of major events compared to a year ago and say, "no the game isn't dying!"

I am more in the middle. Viewer numbers overall seem to be relatively normalized, if not slightly higher than last year. I think however, this is just a reflection of the eSports community as a whole broadening in number. There is no doubt that there has been a decline in players; a majority of low to mid tier North American and European players have quit the game, in addition to several high profile pro players leaving the competitive scene. While there does seem to be a cadre of younger European gamers breaking into the competitive scene, there are no American players that are currently doing this, which I feel is a terrible thing since it represents one of the largest markets.

Below are a list of problems, some analysis, and some proposed solutions. Enjoy!

What's the problem: StarCraft 2 is too personality driven. There is no longevity here because a player's career is short lived.

The "esports" structure of SC is very personality driven. The fact that it is guided by personality over skill has created a situation where there are no replacements for today's big names. When they go, so goes the popularity of the game. This has been exacerbated by Blizzard (and everyone) not putting a lot of emphasis on teams and rather focusing on purely individual events. I know SC is unlike a MOBA and it's not a 'team' game, but you can have team events in SC. Who will replace Stephano as the badass European that can challenge the best in the world? Who can replace IdrA or White-Ra or Sheth? There is no crop of players who people care about that is 'up and coming' to fill the void when these prominent personalities leave the competitive scene: and the reason they're leaving is in large part because they don't really enjoy the game. Sure people like IdrA and White-Ra are still around, but their relevance will diminish over time the farther removed they are from being competitors. Relying on casters/hosts to drive viewership is not a good long term model.

If there was more focus and emphasis placed on teams this problem would be alleviated.

A major LoL team like TSM could lose TheOddOne and suffer a momentary dip in popularity, but they would eventually replace him, and as long as his skill was world-class, he would develop a following and the team's net popularity would remain the same.

If Blizzard created a system that allowed 'local' talent to emerge this problem would be alleviated.

I'm not trying to say that if there was a large American only tournament, new American stars would magically be born. What it would do however, is provide motivation for American players to dedicate time to the game and increase their skill level within the region and relative to the world population. Over time this may lead to the generation of local heroes and create a world tournament system that has the hype of the Olympics or World Cup, where once per year we can see the world's best fight on a truly global stage.

What's the problem: There is an oversaturation of content which removes the gravity of Blizzard's official championship series. The lack of a "superbowl" type event hurts.

I'm aware that WCS culminates in the highest point playersduking it out in a global finals at Blizzcon. The problem however is that there's nothing aside from the prize pool that will differentiate the WCS Global Finals from Season 1, Seaosn 2, or Season 3.

For example, look at the WCS Season 1 final player list:
[image loading]

Now let's look at the WCS Season 2 final player list:
[image loading]

The Season 3 finals and the Global finals are going to look almost identical. Maybe 1 non Korean, and 7-8 of the top Koreans. So basically, nothing changes. The stage is bigger and there's more money on the line but otherwise there is no difference. I will predict that the viewership for the global finals won't be significantly different than any of the other Season finals and the reason is: there's nothing to get people more hyped about it.

In addition to this, there are a handful of European LAN events that feature a similar looking player list, with more Europeans sprinkled in. Even though the WCS system is designed to have a penultimate 'global' champion, its very format is its undoing. The fact that the global champion looks no different than the Season 1, 2, or 3 champion devalues the final event.

If Blizzard created a regional system in which the world's best came together only at the end of the year, this problem would be alleviated.

Yes, Korea would have the highest viewership. Regions like China and Europe however, would have equally large, if not higher viewership than Korea. People care about those regions. North America is the proverbial odd man out here - the skill level is lower, there isn't as much interest. In a year however, that may change. There has been no sustained or concentrated effort to generate interest in American-only events and American players not named Suppy, HuK, or Scarlett.

IPL1 broke away from being American-only after one event. Shoutcraft America stopped after one event: one-off events are not enough. Blizzard is really the only entity that can run sustained and continuous high-prized events in North America and really should do so to develop this segment of the population. It will help their competitive scene as well as the casual one.

If Blizzard made its WCS event more lucrative and restricted access it would help alleviate the problem.

Riot's idea here is really great, if I understand it correctly. Pro teams are restricted to only compete in the LCS. They are unable to play in 'amateur' events like the MCS, MLG Invitationals, and the like. This is great because it gives amateur teams like Denial eSports the opportunity to win ~$10,000 in tournaments. If Blizzard restricted pro team players to only compete in WCS or other major events it would give more players an opportunity to win money, as well as create scarcity.

If you can see Flash stream every day, it makes his tournament appearances less interesting; if Flash plays in every tournament, it makes things stale. If you know you will only get to see Flash play in the WCS, you'll damn well be tuning in to watch him play because you won't get another opportunity.

What's the problem: Battle.net isn't as much about community and interaction as it was in Brood War. There's too much emphasis on laddering and it doesn't appeal to casuals.

This has been addressed a million times so I won't really go into too much detail. When you logged into battle.net in Brood War, you're instantly placed into a chat channel. It was the main focus of the client, it was centered on the screen and large. Game play options were a small right sidebar. Now, the game options are front-and-center, and chat channels and windows are cumbersome popups. It isn't intuitive, appealing to use, or inviting.

If you're a true casual you probably wouldn't even think about, or know how to join a channel or message a friend. And there are so many options, you wouldn't know where to start. Being placed in Brood War USA-1 is easy, convenient, and instantly can get you talking to people and make a user feel like he's part of a community.

If Blizzard made chat, community, and interaction a large part of the Battle.net experience, the problem would be alleviated.

Right now games, especially ladder are the main focus of the battle.net client. I'm guessing that as a result of the popularity of Brood War as a competitive game, Blizzard thought "let's make ladder the main focus of the new Battle.net since that's what our users care about." Bad call. Blizzard either has forgotten or doesn't know that the community features of the original Battle.net are what gave rise to its competitive scene.

I remember being invited to the [i'm] clan chat back in 98-99 and feeling really great; or when two clans would meet in a chat for a clan war, or social channels like Ladder Challenges or X17 being a breeding ground for trash talk and competition. The competitive arose out of the social. SC2's Battle.net tried to start with the competitive and build the social later, but in the process lost sight of its casual fanbase and didn't do much to keep the competitive gamers around: many notable/semi notable NA players have quit and are now playing League of Legends.

What's the problem: I feel like SC2's gameplay is inherently less fun to watch than Brood War, aside from the graphics. Matches feel stale and anticlimactic.

There was a really great article HERE that discusses the issue of why Brood War and StarCraft 2 are different games. It hinges on Day9's analysis of 'frisbee vs baseball'. Unfortunately for StarCraft 2, the 'frisbee' is more fun and exciting to watch. What I mean by this is, using the information provided in the aforementioned article, battles in StarCraft 2 are much less interesting than in Brood War. The game aspects that make StarCraft 2 insanely difficult to master and challenging go largely unappreciated by viewers.

For example: the positioning and posturing of two armies prior to a battle are absolutely key in StarCraft 2, because once the battle starts, little can be done to change the outcome. This posturing however is incredibly hard to translate into excitement on the part of the viewer. StarCraft 2 battles feature things blowing up, and blobs disappearing. There is much less micro and "play" potential in StarCraft 2 because of how its pathing and units are designed.

In Brood War, actual battles are much more exciting, and I feel as if these are the lynchpin of the viewer experience. Seeing an intensely micro'd battle, or a player with a smaller force taking down a player with a bigger force because of superior unit control and micro is exciting. Knowing that Brood War is more difficult to execute gives the viewer more appreciation for incredible marine splits, storms, and multi-tasking in battle. It is easy to see the impact of the player directly on the battlefield because you know that every action is manually performed by the user, while StarCraft 2's battles are essentially simulations: there is comparatively little the player can do to impact the outcome of a battle in StarCraft 2.

I don't really see how this problem can be fixed since it is part of the game design.

What's the problem: SC2's design doesn't lend itself to introducing casual players to eSports.

A huge part of what Riot does is eSports. Almost everyone who plays the game knows about the competitive side because the whole company agenda pushes it. It makes sense for Riot and helps drive sales. People see their favorite pro player use X skin or play Y champion, and they want to buy it, too. This doesn't exist in SC2, but there are other ways Blizzard can introduce eSports to its casual player base.

Advertising tournaments/events on the main battle.net page is only a small, and relatively new step Blizzard has taken. Blizzcon is a huge marketing tool for eSports, since every fan of Blizzard knows about Blizzcon but may not know about eSports. This is why making Blizzard bigger and more epic is important: creating an "olympic like" WCS event will help here. A casual fan will absolutely never be able to understand that these 16 Koreans are the best players in the world. A casual fan would say "why are there 16 Koreans here." It is much easier to understand and explain to a casual fan, "Here's the American champion, the Chinese champion, the European champion, and the Korean champion and they're all fighting to be crowned world champion." That makes more sense and is logical. A casual fan of the game can take that knowledge, sit down, and cheer for the American to win because he's American, or the Chinese player because he's Chinese, and so on. Otherwise, it's "pick a random Korean and go." Since Blizzcon is the primary marketing tool of playing Blizzard titles competitively, the events at Blizzard need to be easier for a casual fan to understand and become attached to.

Furthermore, eSports should be given more of a focus at Blizzcon. WoW is definitely the largest attraction at the event, and it makes sense because it is Blizzard's biggest money maker. Giving SC2 a center stage and bigger presence however, can help to attract new fans to sit, watch, and become absorbed.

Another idea is to have instructional and highlight videos embedded into the main client of Battle.net, similarly to how Riot often displays videos in its client. Video titles should have generic and enticing enough names for a casual fan to be interested in clicking, and eventually get hooked.

Where do we go from here

There is no easy answer to this question, and life seems pretty grim. It's as if Blizzard is victim to its own hubris, thinking that no game could challenge its position as eSports leader. One of the biggest problems (game play) is unsolvable. HoTS is definitely a better game than WoL, but the inherent aspects of the game engine can't be overcome by balance or new units, I fear Brood War will always be more exciting to watch than StarCraft 2. Blizzard can however, adjust its eSports policy to improve things. It remains to be seen however, if it will do that. 2013 does represent a step in the right direction in terms of the company devoting more funds to eSports, however its practices are largely flawed.

As someone who has been involved in this game at every level, from being a competitive player, tournament organizer, writer, administrator, manager, and promoter since the game was released in 1998, I am hopeful that Blizzard will eventually get things right.
+
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
September 20 2013 18:50 GMT
#2
Regarding viewership, I'll just quote something I wrote on reddit (note that is was before Ret's speech at meta):

Since the launch, Blizzard has been trying to make sc2 more casual friendly, make the game more appealing to the mass. While that is nothing wrong, I still wish Blizzard had marketed sc2 more aggressively as the challenging and demanding game it is.

One of the reasons why I followed the Korean BW scene was not because it was such a fun game, but because I was so fascinated impressed by its players. They practised unbelievably hard, day in day out, and played the game at a level nobody beforehand would have thought to be possible.

Starcraft 2, even though not as mechanically demanding as BW, is also like that:

When I am watching MOBA games, I am impressed with the sharp decision making and the flawless team work of the players. But looking at each player individually, I see nothing which I wouldn't expect me to be able to do, given enough time and training. I know I am probably wrong with this, but this is how it looks to me.

On the other hand, watching sc2, seeing an unbelievable muta split by Jaedong, or an incredible marine split by Marineking, or a crazy storm dodge by Happy, with nearly flawless macro behind it, just leaves me dumbfolded in awe. Not one second would I believe that I will ever be capable of doing that.

TL;DR: Sc2 is a wonderful, extremely mechanically challenging game and should be marketed as such. Players are relentlessly working their ass off to be the best in this and we should capitalize on that.
Harajuku
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
150 Posts
September 20 2013 18:52 GMT
#3
Well done, a very thorough summary of all the problems. Hope Blizzard takes note.
KaiserKieran
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States615 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-20 19:19:27
September 20 2013 18:56 GMT
#4
Very good read.
Paragraph inbound.

Alright in your post relating to growing rising talent I think the easiest way to grow that talent is by having an offline WCS as opposed to having an offline challenger and ro32. If it is offline then more youngsters in that area who heard about a 100k prize pool will become interested. In addition, it will deal with the over populated korean problem that NA has by forcing Koreans to decide if they really want to stay for a month just to get a paycheck. In addition, since everyone is in the same place, it will allow the length between matches shorter as well as creating a nice competitive atmosphere.

It might be painful at first since many pros will be thinking "Fuck now i have to move to _____(insert popular city here) if I want to play!" and many might think it just isn't worth it and retire. I really think having an offline WCS at a single city would in the end be the best thing for e-sports.

This is just my opinion keep in mind and a very naive one at that.
GLHF
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
September 20 2013 18:59 GMT
#5
On September 21 2013 03:52 Harajuku wrote:
Well done, a very thorough summary of all the problems. Hope Blizzard takes note.


A lot of the things mentioned in the op have been identified and written down for a long time...
So if they are taking notes, they don't care about them.

Anyways, the main thing I dislike about sc2 from a viewers perspective is that battles are decided too quickly. Most battles are over within two minutes and the victor of the whole game is decided. Given that you have a build up of over 15 minutes, that is too little imo.
Kpaxlol
Profile Joined April 2010
813 Posts
September 20 2013 19:04 GMT
#6
Hopefully they change the pathing some day. They change diablo 3 so that it doesn't have AH, which is a huge fundamental change for the good of the game. I haven't watched SC2 for like an year, since I realized it can't compare to BW. I'm one of those viewers and players ( I was top master EU) that just lost interest, because of those fundamental problems SC2 has, compared to Brood war.
<3 bw
bardtown
Profile Joined June 2011
England2313 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-20 19:16:32
September 20 2013 19:13 GMT
#7
I think ARTS games are almost equally personality driven. SC2 is probably conducive to less entertaining personalities, in that to be the best in SC2 you have to do almost nothing else with your life. Stephano was perhaps the notable exception to this; although he no doubt practiced more than he said he did, he didn't come across as somebody who spent their entire life in solitude playing one computer game over and over. I stopped playing when Terran was by far the weakest race and then Zerg got buffed in ZvT. I stopped watching when Stephano stopped winning. From Korea we had the charisma of MC and then more or less nothing. This might not be a problem if people could follow individuals based on their play, but it's rare to see one player consistently reaching finals these days. Every week there's somebody new on top.

Edit: And as a somewhat casual but also competitive player it's just stressful to play, every game. Also as a beginner you have to spend a very long time mastering mechanics and essentially doing what other people tell you to do. 'Strategy' barely comes into it. I genuinely think the drafting in Dota 2 is more strategic than anything in SC2
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
September 20 2013 19:14 GMT
#8
Remove the huge, supporting and loving community, the massive legacy SC2 has from BW and you are left with mediocre, forgettable, shallow, terrible damage Browder/Kim creation.
This is the cancer that stops SC2 from growing. And with no community figurehead stepping up to actually name the critical design flaws of the game, there will be no longevity, or great future, for Starcraft.
Only dark clouds of arrogance from Blizzard and their designers can be seen at the horizon.
Jawra
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden146 Posts
September 20 2013 19:14 GMT
#9
I agree with so much that was brought up here, especially that StarCraft 2 gameplay is somewhat lacking. What I've ultimately come to think the reason for this is:

Passive midgame and lack of positional advantage. These two very much contribute to the stale gameplay we currently have, because of the removal of skirmish units like Lurker & Reaver and introduction of Colossus.

3-Base economy being optimal is always brought up to be the core issue
Colossus+Warptech making GW units to weak and the army thereby too symmetrical and blob-like.
Offensive Warptech also removes Defender's Advantage which makes PvP so weird, if you're down 5 supply in army? You're dead..the opponent warps in at your doorstep.
Mech being immobile and not viable at all because of SpiderMines not being a part of Hellions.

These are things that can be fixed to make for a better game, unlike changes such as dumbing down the AI or pathing. I really hope for some change like this in LotV, or else this ship will sink like 6months post-LotV, instead of being the RTS of the century.
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
September 20 2013 19:20 GMT
#10
I like it, agree with a lot. I don't personally find BW more interesting to watch or play but I do understand and get the comparison.

I think the best way for SC2 to truly become large again would be for tournaments to focus on team leagues more than individual leagues. At it's heart SC2 is an individual vs individual type game, but that stuff is so much harder to watch and enjoy. By taking away the GSL and focusing on the GSTL, we lose the emphasis on individual players (who come and go in popularity and skill seemingly month to month) and add emphasis on the teams themselves, which are pretty stable in general. I don't have to worry about finding someone else to root for when my favorite pro retires, I can root for the team and maybe have a favorite couple players.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Durmaz21
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden52 Posts
September 20 2013 19:23 GMT
#11
Oh boy, another great tl thread that surely will lead to something even greater!

Starcraft 2 is dying because the game isn't fun. Losing isn't fun. Playing alone isn't fun. This would not be that big a deal if the game was fun to watch, which it has been, but now the metagame is so stale. Everyone just does the same thing, more or less. Oversaturation definetely a problem as well. But that probably wouldn't matter that much if the game had more options. Why don't blizzard release patches more frequently? Why don't they buff units that never see play? Why do I never see Nyduses or Overlord drops? Do those units even exist?
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
September 20 2013 19:23 GMT
#12
Xeris makes a lot of really good points. I hope Blizzard sees this and continues to work on bettering their WCS system.
Skill is relative.
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
September 20 2013 19:28 GMT
#13
MMA is winning games again, there is no problem.
Sefer
Profile Joined August 2013
47 Posts
September 20 2013 19:31 GMT
#14
Although I can understand that this is well meant, despite this topic being overdone, you've made a lot of assumptions for which you either have no support, or that simply aren't true.

Additionally, while I can see why people want to grow the popularity of SC2, I think these constant threads of "what wrong with sc2?!?!" and "what can blizzard do to fix this?!?" are empty gestures and the wrong way to go about increasing popularity. Rather than make all these empty suggesstions, if it's that important why don't people go out and make content or the infrastructure that they would like to support the game. Just because Blizzard made the game doesn't make it their responsibility to do everything. If you enjoy it, you do something about it.

Keep in mind that these are only your opinions. You claim SC2 should be more casual, yet others would like it to be more competitive. In any case, note that you don't change the rules because you want more people to watch. I don't think the MLS is says to its board members "What's wrong with soccer in america? We need to make it more appealing to the american audience!" Soccer is soccer, if it's not as popular here you can't make it something else, you just encourage people to like what you like about it.
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
September 20 2013 19:36 GMT
#15
Talking with my friends about this lately and I agree on most of those points. It makes me sad that the gameplay part, which is the one that impacts me most as a casual player, is probably something that will never be touched.
Olferen
Profile Joined March 2013
United States39 Posts
September 20 2013 19:36 GMT
#16
I feel that by having one regional champion we suddenly have a diluted scene. An American champ/player that is far inferior to the Korean champion should not be on the world stage. It will just create a scene in which bad players get the same recognition as their Korean peers.
Dancing with myself oh oh oh.
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
September 20 2013 19:37 GMT
#17
Oh boy, another one of this thread. And this is pretty poorly written and all the points are old and discussed to death long ago.

User was warned for this post
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
September 20 2013 19:40 GMT
#18
I feel like we get a new one of these threads with someone who "knows" what is wrong with SC2 every week. I find them interesting, but I don't find them particularly enlightening, because all of these issues brought up in these various posts combine to form some kind of issue that is preventing larger growth of the SC2 scene, and none of these issues is the magic answer that encompasses the whole thing.

Appreciate your thoughts because you bring in several of the key issues that combine to cause a problem for the scene. Bringing it all together.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
saddaromma
Profile Joined April 2013
1129 Posts
September 20 2013 19:40 GMT
#19
On September 21 2013 04:37 larse wrote:
Oh boy, another one of this thread. And this is pretty poorly written and all the points are old and discussed to death long ago.

ty, for your contribution.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
September 20 2013 19:42 GMT
#20
On September 21 2013 03:40 Xeris wrote:
The fact that it is guided by personality over skill has created a situation where there are no replacements for today's big names.


this is a good point but for the wrong reason.

when you look at bw players, they are often known for their playstyles. julyzerg's sauron style, flash's perfect macro, jaedongs muta control, jangbi's storms, jaehoon's recalls, zero's queens, boxers cheese, nony's carriers. and so on.

sc2 just doesn't have this, or rather, its just not as memorable as it was in bw. only a handful of players in sc2 had gained prominence through unique builds and playstyles, stephano, MKP, fruitdealer for example. then you have situations where a build is discovered like slayers 111, but then is nerfed, and everyone goes back to standard play. the builds and playstyles in sc2 are incredibly generic and thusly leads to a largely forgettable experience. 'memorable' games in sc2 revolve around two players throwing armies at each other in a bloodbath, in long drawn out games. they are entertaining, but its just a quick fix. there's nothing to set that game apart from the others.

everyone remembers hiya vs free in bw, a completely unorthodox game with weird builds and timings, yet it was still a close game, and managed to be one of the most entertaining bw games ever.
starleague forever
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