EPTFirst game for me, pretty curious about it...
Newbie Mini Mafia XLV
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infii
Germany153 Posts
First game for me, pretty curious about it... | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
Completely new to mafia... only saw the esports-mafia stream from Neal (koibu) once and thought I'd give it a shot. Stay tuned for more | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
So I'll go ahead and tell you my thoughts up until now after reading all the posts. Umasi is at the top of my suspicious-list right now, because it seems he tries to stir things up and doesn't act neutral in any way. (e.g. anti deus - pro reps). However that is not enough for me to vote on him... it's still the first day, right? DeusXmachina took an early stance which backfired at him so now he tries to get clear of it. Seems legit aka town. Holyflare is pretty neutral until now, which is good. reps)squishy has stirred up some suspicion but that seemed to be unintentional, also I liked his defense. Nightcat99 is nr. 2 on the suspicious-list. Not many posts but the few ones have a chaotic flavor to them as in trying to confuse people. StiMaDDict acts generally neutral, seems like town. Alakaslam's last posts were totally bonkers. No idea what he is up to. Again, this were just my thoughts about everyone active in this discussion up until now, there are no facts that I can claim to be true or false. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On July 31 2013 20:28 Gotard wrote: This game will be hard. A lot of lurkers and two of the most confusing people in the whole universe: Umasi and Alakaslam. reps)squishy - He's posting isn't pro town whatsoever. Hue huehuehue. Really? If you are newbie better start posting reads/thought/analysis infii - My first post in my last game was pretty similar to what you have written right here. I was mafia. "acts generally neutral, seems like town." - being neutral is scummy. If you are town you want to post your reads and generate pro town content and not to look neutral. ##Vote: infii So I guess "being neutral is scummy" is a law that applies in 100% of all cases? I doubt that! There is nothing to gain for town if they lynch another town... contrary to scum. IMO a Townsman would consider all options before deciding to vote/lynch, while scum will try to steer the oppinion of others in a desired direction. However... your hostile reaction is noteworthy. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:27 Gotard wrote: Every lynch gives you crucial information. How do you want to find out who is mafia if you won't take risk lynching people? Then why don't you just lynch everyone e.g. in alphabetical order? Every lynch will give you crucial information, right? We are awaiting your defense btw. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 01 2013 04:54 sc_a.M wrote: Hey guys! In my opinion we should not kill anyone today but wait and let the investigators do the investigations. Perhaps there isn't even a SK and then everything would be fine! That sounds so much pro scum that it almost can't be true. Please clarify your post if you are town. On August 01 2013 04:54 Holyflare wrote: This is his only noteworthy contribution so far, it is weak at best and is somewhere on my radar, however, it is more contribution than others have put forward. It is hard to get a read on him and I'd like some more indepth analysis from him before I make my decision. I am also very interested to hear from Deus right now on his opinion of things. I'm sorry but you won't get an indepth analysis from me on day 1 (maybe even day2). There is just not enough information on everyone, that would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. (is this even a common phrase in english?) | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:49 Umasi wrote: Infii, why did you pop in to comment and basically say nothing, and then tell us you don't plan on saying anything? And you're defensive! What are you trying to accomplish by that? Address things other than yourself and generic town lists, because that just looks like you attempting to appear to contribute. In which way did I say nothing? My post was targeted mainly at sc_a.M. The no-analysis thing was meant as a side note to clarify my thoughts on it... | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
I'll do this in chronologic order. On August 01 2013 05:59 Umasi wrote: You just threw in a comment about sc_ like, "dude what the hell?" That's not exactly saying a lot, there is a LOT to talk about. And you just were like, "guys there's nothing to analyze :<<<<" like, you said NOTHING. It told us NOTHING about what you're thinking that's independent of what others are thinking (yeah, literally everyone will look at sc_s first post and go "wtf") That is not true. I said he should make a statement to get rid of all the suspicion he will get with that post. This is not an empty phrase! Btw sc_a.M still did't take a stance to his first post, which raised a lot of suspicion from me but surprisingly went under everyone elses radar. He even defended reps with his second post. So if reps is scum, sc_a.M is also scum. The only other option I see here is that sc_a.M has information/proof that reps is town. Then there were several posts which stated that I would be in favor of a no-lynch: I never said I'm for a no-lynch. I'm just against random or premature votes on people. Generally I want to look at a case from every possible angle before I judge, that may very well look neutral/scummy from the outside... until my first vote I guess. So please have a little bit more patience. On August 01 2013 13:10 reps)squishy wrote: @infill I want to question you. Q: You decided to be neutral which is seems like a scum move to not draw attention. Why would you lean towards neutral if you were town? A: Q: You have not posted very much are you busy whats up with that? A: 1. I think the general misunderstanding lies in the word neutral. - Neutral as in not participating on the discussion is bad. - Neutral as in shedding light on not-discussed topics on a strongly favored lynch candidate is good. Neutral for town is not a bad thing imo, of course they have to agree on a lynch at some point. But I see neutrality at the start of day1 as a positive thing because there is so few information and you want to stretch your feelers in every possible direction to gather as much information as possible. Thus, being biased on a certain person/clue/statement hinders the information flow. 2. Well I have a full-time job and whenever I get a piece of free time I spend most of it catching up on all the new posts. e.g. today I'll head to a rehearsal straight after work and will get home maybe at 9-10 pm CET. I'm at work right now and shouldn't even take so much time to write this post... but whatever it's pretty fun! On August 01 2013 17:13 Gotard wrote: When I saw his list the first thing I thought was that it's scummy because it was super neutral and he's scum reads are weak so I decided to pressure him with my vote and get some analysis and in depth reasoning behind his reads. It's easy to say that my read on him was weak because it was based purely on one single post but I wanted to see his next step. In all honesty: that sounds pretty reasonable, although it was an agressive move. Look at that post: This is pure ignorance. "Hello! I will be lurking and this isn't scummy because there is on information!". Yes you have zero information about players at the very beginning but you need to gather it somehow and waiting doesn't help. That is why you might see people pressuring someone because of one bad post or even a single word in a wrong place. After I voted on you, you did nothing to prove that you are pro town. If there is not enough information why do you think that someone is scummy? I never said that I am going to lurk and wait. I will post as much as I possibly can and when I see it necessary. Why his post are having a chaotic flavor? When/how did he try to confuse people? Reading his latest posts I may have misjudged him. No real opinion on him atm. Ok now on to the reps)squishy case: If you read through his posts he is either newbie town in a helpless situation with almost no way out or he is scum trying desperately to stay alive. In any cases his argumentation is repetitive and overall not very convincing, therefore I agree that even if he is town he would be of little use and should be lynched. OTOH he would still be more useful than StiMaDDict or sc_a.M. Stimaddict was active early on and got super silent now, which could be because he doesn't want to get more attention or just is busy in real life atm. sc_a.M literally made 2 posts until the second half of day1, which is poor at best. Those posts were contraproductive for town. That is why I will vote for him if he doesn't contribute/defend himself in the next hours. But if it is necessary I will switch votes to reps before day1 ends. Umasi: He is pressing hard on reps atm. The way he confronts reps seems scummy to me and if reps turns out to be town he will definately be a big candidate for scum next day. Alakaslam: He is also on reps. But unlike Umasi he went on a more supportive approach, trying to help reps to defend himself. While reps is clearly in a dead end, there is no need to increase the pressure any more. That is a strong town sign because we should support each other as town. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:11 Gotard wrote: Maybe not but that was my impression and frankly this is pretty much what you do. Lurking and waiting. Why is he more useful than them if he's repetitive and "either newbie town in a helpless situation with almost no way out or he is scum trying desperately to stay alive". This is not what town does. Why is he useful in any way? Because he posts more? Quantity doesn't mean usefulness. Because he could possibly improve in usefulness with more time and less preasure. And if he doesn't we can still lynch him the next day. OTOH there is not much information and thought process from the other two. So I'd rather choose the predictable solution than the unknown. You do that again. You say something and then there are no arguments. Why "The way he confronts reps" is scummy? Why reps flipping red indicates that Umasi is mafia as well. Do I really have to explain every single thing in full detail? When participating in discussions I'd expect from the participants at least to be able to think on their own. But I'll do it this time just for you: Here are 3 quick posts from Umasi in which he also votes reps. So in his second post he states that reps is counterproductive but others should vote him for the reason that he is scum. And already in the next post he repeats that reps is counterproductive IN ALL CAPS, which is an easy way to increase preasure on someone. He explains there are LOTS of good reasons to vote him, but interestingly only points out his counterproductiveness. Then there are serveral more accusations "you have preformed jack", "You are hurting town", "Scum? Sure!, Troll? guess so!". Nothing wrong with that its just He writes it in such a lurid way that I tend to think he is trying to set others up on reps. So if we presume that Umasi wants others to jump on the bandwagon and lynch reps, that would be a clear sign for mafia. To continue the thought process, reps did get lynched and he flips town, that would further increase the possibility of Umasi being scum. Any more questions? PS.: I am not pro reps, it's just that I am more anti sc_a.M/Stimaddict. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
Even when I vote sc_a.m (which I wanted to do), right now there is no way people would switch on him to lynch. To counter a possible unvote in the last minutes, I will also vote on reps to make sure it goes through. ##vote reps)squishy That will be my last post for day1 as I won't make it home before the deadline. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
Ok first of all: why is this thread so active during night time? It doesn't matter if you are discussing only scum reads. Every information scum gets during night is detrimental for town. At least that is how my logic works... Next up, I am sure I do have a pretty good idea of who is scum, especially after analysing the last posts before the lynch. And even if I make myself a no.1-to-murder-target with this, we can still beat the scum! Scum team: Umasi, Gotard, Sc_am (still 50/50 on scam but he blends in the team really well atm) Scum is playing as a team. I will elaborate why this is important first: - everyone in the scum team knows who the other scum members are - first priority is not to allow any reads on the connection between the scum team - you can cloak your connection by distributing different roles for each member If you think about this trio as a team where, Umasi is the vocal one, spamming in the thread and mostly trying to steer the conversation in a certain direction playing something like "shady town". Gotard is the "reserved town" playing thoughtful and acting passive-agressive (e.g. with votes on weak targets) and sc_am is the lurker in the team, mostly not writing at all but just enough to not get modkilled, also playing "innocent/newbie town". Neither of them have really accused each other of being scum until the end of night 1! The majority of their comments of each other were something along the line of: "I have no idea what xx is up to" and "I will elaborate on xx later on". Now to my strongest read which is Usami: He voted second on reps, which is pretty early, with no real evidence at hand. After it was clear that reps will get lynched he unvoted reps with the following reasoning: On August 02 2013 03:44 Umasi wrote: That specific line helps a lot. I want you to scum hunt reps, don't go back on your word here. Just because you're off my personal chopping block (dunno about everyone elses) doesn't mean you can go goof around again. This entire push feels wrong, because the tone of your typing feels like you're legitimately trying, and legitimately confused. You've been a detriment to town, but if we can work through that, it may turn out better in the end, and I don't want to lynch you anymore. I'd rather just lynch the scummiest, and you are no longer the scummiest. I am going out to lunch in fifteen ish minutes, going to reread and decide who to vote on. I don't think reps is our lynch. That said, I do want to see a lynch through though. ##UNVOTE REPS "I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M." That was reason enough to let his suspicion fall after discussing about him for almost half of day1? Really? His next post: On August 02 2013 03:53 Umasi wrote: Don't do thaaaaaaaaat. No lynching is stupid t.t Also, don't preemptively martyr when it's the end of day one and you have a single vote on you. It's a far better idea to start scumhunting. We won't get clues from the nighttime, all we'll know is if there is a serial killer or not. The only revealing thing is the nightkill, but even then, what would you learn from that? Like, if deus died and flipped town. What happens then? Nothing is really revealed. In fact, it might just be more confusing. No lynching is bad. We aren't random lynching, we're legitimately putting thought into who we're voting, that's the entire POINT. I'll give you a small grace period as per reps, get your ass in gear, and by that I specifically mean go filter dive people and see what you can come up with. This applies to you Rdaneel, don't just mildly comment on things, bring up things we haven't talked about and discuss it all, or discuss old things to death, as long as it's not about reps. We've beaten reps to death. "No lynching is stupid" ...11 minutes later: On August 02 2013 04:04 Umasi wrote: And yeah, I recognize a no-lynch might occur. That's how hard my opinion of reps has swung, to the point that I'm willing to no lynch over his death. ##VOTE INFII I'm out of time. I'll explain the vote more later, when I have time. Now no-lynching isn't that stupid anymore? ...his next post was the closest thing I could find for an explanation on his vote: On August 02 2013 05:20 Umasi wrote: was afk, I made that clear. I've made that clear too. I was pretty much perfectly clear on everything. I agree what I did was scummy, because I'm a proponent of never ever no lynch. THAT is how hard my opinion swayed on him. Since reps flipped town, I'm looking at deus and infii. Infii moreso than deus. Most of what Gotard has posted about infii has had merit, which is why I voted him. He's been noncommittal, has posted excuses for not posting (it's too hard to do(fuck try anyway dammit)) I don't really see any explanation about his vote here. He even uses information he got after the lynch. Also defending gotard by legitimating his aggressiveness early on. To recap things, I think Umasi is trying to lead town to lynch another townsman with his very active and spammy behaviour. He should be the next lynch target imo, unless he states a flawless and logic defense. Now on to gotard. His first most noticeable action was an early, seemingly random, vote on me. On July 31 2013 20:28 Gotard wrote: This game will be hard. A lot of lurkers and two of the most confusing people in the whole universe: Umasi and Alakaslam. reps)squishy - He's posting isn't pro town whatsoever. Hue huehuehue. Really? If you are newbie better start posting reads/thought/analysis infii - My first post in my last game was pretty similar to what you have written right here. I was mafia. "acts generally neutral, seems like town." - being neutral is scummy. If you are town you want to post your reads and generate pro town content and not to look neutral. ##Vote: infii At this point I looked weak/neutral because I didn't want to determine myself on something as it was still early on day1. So I was a possibly easy-to-lynch target from scum perspective. However I stated Umasi as my primary scum target and if we assume gotard and umasi being part of the scum team, that was another good reason for him to jump on me. Following after that were several accusations on which I tried to defend myself. I'd like to quote slam here: On August 02 2013 09:07 Alakaslam wrote: [...] I don't get why people dislike Indio jones, are they actually reading him? That is what I was asking myself all the time. I defended myself like Gotard wanted - not enough. I wrote a wall of text going in-depth on my arguments in full detail - still not enough. But it makes sense now. You can argue all you want with scum, if they're on to you, one will never get clear. sc_a.m ... He has exactly 3 posts in his history in which he said something. (I didn't even say contributed!) The most important quote: On August 02 2013 02:44 sc_a.M wrote: No, well eventually maybe, I think I am going to get killed next day anyway, the reason you kill reps is the same you can apply to me, only reps started posting earlier (and after seeing the reactions I didn't really bother), what he said made sense to me. That you hate him so much gave me a day I guess. Perhaps after night time when we actually have the chance on some clues we can do more than the random lynching that is occuring at the moment. I don't understand why beeing against random lynching, and nothing else you can do day1 is anti town, but what ever. ##vote no-lynch If I understand him correctly he tells us that he had a similiar mindset to reps. But watching reps getting all the attention, he didn't want to end up like him. So if we follow his thought process, day2 would be the time for him to come up on stage and state his results of analysis to avoid any random lynching. If he does not do that, with all his passiveness and the pro no-lynch, he is pretty much scum (with the small possibility of him being town but gave up on playing mafia) I am very curious how day2 will unfold! PS.: I did not read holy's last minute analysis before posting if this is of any importance later on. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 03 2013 07:15 Umasi wrote: Thank you infii, you have done a far better job of defending yourself than anyone else in the thread, by virtue of actually stating your position and thoughts on something in a clear manner. I basically agree with you on scam, I obviously disagree with you regarding me, and I don't think you'd defended yourself as well as other people had thought. Go read what I posted about my rational behind my vote swap yesterday (you might have missed it). basically, before this you were kinda scummy, now you're pretty townie. If you want me to respond to any points in your case, feel free to ask if I didn't cover it in my previous post linked here for your convenience http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422313¤tpage=42#838 Yes, please explain why you unvoted reps so close before the lynch and voted me. At that point it was clear that reps will get lynched, with or without your vote and there was no chance for me to get lynched. And I don't want to hear what you thought of reps or me, but why you unvoted on reps, where basically most of us agreed on lynching him, even if he is town. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On August 03 2013 07:50 Umasi wrote: infii, did you even read the message I linked? The entire reason I unvoted is BECAUSE of what I thought of reps and you. It was not clear that reps was going to be lynched, here's why: If it were clear, then people wouldn't get angry at me for endangering the lynch. and the entire point behind my reasoning is that I'd have preferred a no lynch than a reps lynch. Yes I read your post. What I was trying to ask is: why did you unvote reps specifically at that time so close before lynch? What did you hope to accomplish by this? As you stated reps convinced you to swap to a possible no-lynch with this argument: "I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M." I just can't get my mind around how that sentence can change an opinion at all, and like I said, especially at that time. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
Your analysis is marvelous, I gladly would have get murdered instead of you! Seems like scum knows what they are doing... | ||
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TIL I love and hate the game mafia. It feels like my brain is wrapped in barbed wire, but I love it! mwahahaah ...first things first: On August 03 2013 08:14 infii wrote: Yes I read your post. What I was trying to ask is: why did you unvote reps specifically at that time so close before lynch? What did you hope to accomplish by this? As you stated reps convinced you to swap to a possible no-lynch with this argument: "I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M." I just can't get my mind around how that sentence can change an opinion at all, and like I said, especially at that time. Umasi, you still did not answer my question. --- This is what I think is going on: Umasi and Gotard: Both scum OR just one of them is scum. If both scum - pre lynch, existing connection between them, none took a stand against each other, which makes sense - after lynch, suspicion on them went over the top, they decide that it's probably better to break the connection from a town viewpoint, and start accusing each over (gotard voted umasi, umasi's analysis stated that gotard is pretty much scum) - if one gets lynched, the other one is pretty much free of suspicion because they took a stand against each other after lynch (which was already stated by someone) If one of them is scum - pre lynch, no connection between them, none took a stand against each other, which would be pure coincidence - after lynch, with the fingers pointed at them, both take a stand against each other but only gotard specifically focuses only on umasi, while umasi did also analyse other possible scumreads with the conclusion, that gotard is the most scummy one. Umasi's behaviour looks much more pro-town than gotard's. But that could also be just good scum play. - the lynch will pretty much be 50/50 for flipping red, it doesn't even matter who gets voted. As for my gut feeling I'm leaning slightly more towards gotard. We can still continue to interrogate Umasi on the next day, also I want a full-out defense from gotard. ##vote gotard PS.: interesting post is coming up in couple minutes from me | ||
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Germany153 Posts
On August 04 2013 02:15 Nightcat99 wrote: Ok my stand so far. [...] Orginially i through you two were mason brothers because of these 2 post but hten i reread your filter and saw the next line. This means you are not mason, so stim trusting you is not enough, i want to know why you are so sure. [...] wat... ... wait... WHAT? First: My head still hurts thinking about why these posts from stim went completely under the radar. Only explanation I could come up with: town didn't really bother or skipped his posts (at least some of town), scum read it but kept silent for their advantage, so they could plot a lynch on one of us to then also murder the other one at night. This would be worst case scenario for mason. At first I thought people would interrogate stim why he did trust me so much all of a sudden with no evidence or argument, but nothing happened... Because I don't want the scum team to have an advantage on this topic, I will announce that stim and I are mason. I already knew I had to do this earlier than I wanted, because of stim's unofficial confirmation of us being mason before lynch and because everyone kept silent on it. Also stim is not really helpful and inactive, even in QT. And then nightcat's post just blew my mind. Now on to nightcat: You do realize that your quotes are in reverse choronlogical order, right? But even if you read On August 02 2013 02:34 StiMaDDict wrote: I drop my suspicion on infi completely. after the other two first quotes you posted. Why in the hell would that confirm us not to be mason? (even with the wrong timeline you posted) I read scum all over your face now nightcat. The good side on this reveal though is, that if stim or I will get murdered, the other one will be confirmed town for at least one day. Since I'm pretty much all in now, ask away anything regarding my connection with stim if you need further confirmation. | ||
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Germany153 Posts
On August 04 2013 06:11 sc_a.M wrote: ##vote no lynch ;best lynch Can we vote to kick him? This is leading nowhere... | ||
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On August 04 2013 07:07 RDaneelOlivaw wrote: infii- what was with the earlier suspicion that he displayed with regards to you? I can understand treating you with standard suspicion, and I can understand cooperating with you, but such an obvious From pressing you hard to "trust him hes town I swear" If you two were working together I want to hear the explanation behind that play. I've been inclined to think you 2 are masons but that play is one of the things holding me back He didn't know how to use the QT until several hours before the lynch. I contacted a coach and asked what to do, he then got a reminder of the QT from blazing I guess. | ||
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Germany153 Posts
On August 04 2013 14:14 Umasi wrote: yeah, you can feel free to call me tsunami. Reading usami all the time is like :< do you guys just not spell goods? kind of thing. who started that anyway? calling me usami, that is. as for focusing on gotard, the easiest way to prove my innocence is to find and lynch scum, so when I read gotard and was like "he's actually scummy" it was reasonable to state my thoughts on him/make a pseudo case. Still want scam dead :< Don't think you will get so easily off the hook tsunami, err mumasmi... masamumi? origami? Just kidding :D If gotard flips red you are still under heavy suspicion. We still need 2 more votes on gotard. I'd like to complete a possible lynch on him as early as possible to get him out of his hole and defend himself. I will perceive a non-vote on him or switching votes to someone else as a scum read. | ||
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Btw, I will be gone for most of the day now, will probably return in ~10hrs. | ||
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