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Atm my TvZ wlr is about 20% on the Diamond ladder, down from my 75+% wlr last season. I've tried just about every cheese/macro opening and strategy possible. I tried a macro game, I did pretty well, I managed to get blocked a fairly short period of time, and continue many many follow up waves, my tech was low, but even with his, a small price to pay for how much army I was producing at the speed I was.
Anyway, I didn't win a single engagement, with as much macro as I could possibly muster, ever, against anyone, he had more units, more bases, more gas, more minerals, more map control, than me, at all times, without making a single economic sacrifice.
I would literally believe you if you told me he was cheating
http://drop.sc/344101
This guy was top 100 diamond, and pretty much raped me without any effort, and I had mid masters mmr last season, so excuse my rq.
I'm something like 0-13 versus Zergs today.
2-4 against Terran.
And like 6-1 versus Protoss.
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Okay so I noticed a few issues you need to work on correcting:
1.) You need to work on limiting the zergs creep spread especially in the early game... Keep him from gaining that advantage. Your attacks @ ~11 mins and followup at 13mins were doomed from the start because you slowly waded onto his creep (without even clearing it) giving him the time and vision to properly counter and engage you each time.
->>>> Clear that creep
--This leads to the next thing
2.) You failed you harass the zerg (no hellions/reapers/drops) the ENTIRE game. You need to use haraass to kill creep, delay or kill his expo's/tech and move the zerg out of his comfort zone. You can't just let him expand freely like you did.
@8:30 he was 12 workers ahead of you and increased this lead slowly throughout the game
->>>>hellions/reaper/drop harass is 100% required
3.) Fix 1 and 2 and you'll be golden. Your macro is decent but your unit management is lacking as far as pressuring goes.
**The #1 thing I recommend that you do is to fake pressure the zerg right before he is due to build his 3rd. Feign that a large attack is coming and force him to make units instead of drones... This can force the zerg into countering when he doesn't want too or to skimp on forces later down the road (to saturate his 3rd). This opens windows for timings.
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I was expecting a sick guide on how to analyze your TvZ losses, wtf 
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Your build provides no map control or harrass potential before 11 min (after lair tech is complete). A competent zerg will go straight to 70-80 drones when scouting this. You lose the game at that point.
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# Didn't watch replay, but I read the responses to the OP and I would like to share something with you.
A Terran's focal point in TvZ and TvP (when playing straight up) is to keep their opponents economy (zerg) and tech (protoss) from spiraling out of control. Harassment, drops and tech/economy sniping is CRITICAL, otherwise the Terran player is outnumbered (Zerg) and/or outgunned (Protoss).
Also to quote RHGamings' response:
On June 16 2013 09:22 RHGaming wrote:
**The #1 thing I recommend that you do is to fake pressure the zerg right before he is due to build his 3rd. Feign that a large attack is coming and force him to make units instead of drones... This can force the zerg into countering when he doesn't want too or to skimp on forces later down the road (to saturate his 3rd). This opens windows for timings.
This is also another way to control a Zerg's economy (I really like this and I do it a lot, even against Terran).
I won't say anymore cause I haven't watched the replay, but I just wanted to add to the decent responses so far.
User was warned for this post
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Wtf, you kept attacking with a mediocre marine/marauder tank army into a zerg. Not even one attack was good or had potential to do damage. If you really think you can win with such constant mediocre attacks then keep losing. Those type of attack is just giving away units. Just so bad I mean there is no real strategic issue build order wise except for the second engineering bay that was far to early. Just that rallying units into zerg is so fucking bad. Besides when you realized that he got no mutas you should had start dropping. Nakes drop against mutalisks is terrible, but against hydra roach it is the best. So wen you saw that he went hydra roach you should had started to drop and secured a fourth base then let your economic advantage kick in.
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Watching your replay and I'm making suggestions as I go (chronological):
Also I would like to note that the first response by RHGaming is brilliant, but I'm going into finer detail here for you : )
1. Zergling speed doesn't come out for a bit, send those 4 marines to the watchtowers (2 at each). It's safe to do so. Never play in the dark. Ever.
2. Hellions. Need I say more? They give such good map control, and you can kill drones if your opponent makes an error. Also you can kill off creep tumors attempting to spread creep. Plus control the zerglings.
3. Your bio tank push is obliterated because you literally telegraphed to him you were coming and gave him ample time to get out units to deflect it with ease. Clear that creep!
4. Now it's "oh shit" mode. Bunker up at home, and send double pronged drop harass now! Fly to his main, draw his units, then drop just outside his 3rd and stim in. It's all about tempo and counter-attacking, keep him in his bases now!
Ok so now it's all downhill from here and you lose the game. I have one more point for you though.
5. ~17minutes, your minerals are climbing, build more production infrastructure! Your 3rd is saturated, how are you going to spend that influx of money? Stop throwing your units away, stabilize your infrastructure, and realize and accept you must play a smarter, late-game to defeat your opponent. Late game thinking and innovation can win you the game.
And I'm sorry if this sounds nasty, but you can't just auto-attack your opponent, thats basically what you're doing. You open up macro, get a nice bio-mech force then push out. Rinse, repeat, expand. If it was that easy, Terran would be IMBA.
Summarily you need to really get back to the drawing board and drastically change the way you play against zerg. Your macro early on is fine, and is representative of the basic framework any good Terran will use, but introduce harassing units, clear creep, execute multi-pronged drops and fight for map control!
One last thing, you come into the game with the mindset that Zerg is impossible to beat, and that is reinforced with your comments in game later on. To quote Einstein:
“We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”.
Hope this helps.
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On June 16 2013 11:17 Dan26 wrote:
Watching your replay and I'm making suggestions as I go (chronological):
Also I would like to note that the first response by RHGaming is brilliant, but I'm going into finer detail here for you : )
1. Zergling speed doesn't come out for a bit, send those 4 marines to the watchtowers (2 at each). It's safe to do so. Never play in the dark. Ever.
2. Hellions. Need I say more? They give such good map control, and you can kill drones if your opponent makes an error. Also you can kill off creep tumors attempting to spread creep. Plus control the zerglings.
3. Your bio tank push is obliterated because you literally telegraphed to him you were coming and gave him ample time to get out units to deflect it with ease. Clear that creep!
4. Now it's "oh shit" mode. Bunker up at home, and send double pronged drop harass now! Fly to his main, draw his units, then drop just outside his 3rd and stim in. It's all about tempo and counter-attacking, keep him in his bases now!
Ok so now it's all downhill from here and you lose the game. I have one more point for you though.
5. ~17minutes, your minerals are climbing, build more production infrastructure! Your 3rd is saturated, how are you going to spend that influx of money? Stop throwing your units away, stabilize your infrastructure, and realize and accept you must play a smarter, late-game to defeat your opponent. Late game thinking and innovation can win you the game.
And I'm sorry if this sounds nasty, but you can't just auto-attack your opponent, thats basically what you're doing. You open up macro, get a nice bio-mech force then push out. Rinse, repeat, expand. If it was that easy, Terran would be IMBA.
Summarily you need to really get back to the drawing board and drastically change the way you play against zerg. Your macro early on is fine, and is representative of the basic framework any good Terran will use, but introduce harassing units, clear creep, execute multi-pronged drops and fight for map control!
One last thing, you come into the game with the mindset that Zerg is impossible to beat, and that is reinforced with your comments in game later on. To quote Einstein:
“We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”.
Hope this helps.
Just wanted to say this was en epic post. Einstein even. Nice.
/edit
I've been losing all my TvZs lately and have been quite frustrated. Your post helped clear away a lot of my negative thinking and attitude.
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On June 16 2013 11:23 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 11:17 Dan26 wrote:
Watching your replay and I'm making suggestions as I go (chronological):
Also I would like to note that the first response by RHGaming is brilliant, but I'm going into finer detail here for you : )
1. Zergling speed doesn't come out for a bit, send those 4 marines to the watchtowers (2 at each). It's safe to do so. Never play in the dark. Ever.
2. Hellions. Need I say more? They give such good map control, and you can kill drones if your opponent makes an error. Also you can kill off creep tumors attempting to spread creep. Plus control the zerglings.
3. Your bio tank push is obliterated because you literally telegraphed to him you were coming and gave him ample time to get out units to deflect it with ease. Clear that creep!
4. Now it's "oh shit" mode. Bunker up at home, and send double pronged drop harass now! Fly to his main, draw his units, then drop just outside his 3rd and stim in. It's all about tempo and counter-attacking, keep him in his bases now!
Ok so now it's all downhill from here and you lose the game. I have one more point for you though.
5. ~17minutes, your minerals are climbing, build more production infrastructure! Your 3rd is saturated, how are you going to spend that influx of money? Stop throwing your units away, stabilize your infrastructure, and realize and accept you must play a smarter, late-game to defeat your opponent. Late game thinking and innovation can win you the game.
And I'm sorry if this sounds nasty, but you can't just auto-attack your opponent, thats basically what you're doing. You open up macro, get a nice bio-mech force then push out. Rinse, repeat, expand. If it was that easy, Terran would be IMBA.
Summarily you need to really get back to the drawing board and drastically change the way you play against zerg. Your macro early on is fine, and is representative of the basic framework any good Terran will use, but introduce harassing units, clear creep, execute multi-pronged drops and fight for map control!
One last thing, you come into the game with the mindset that Zerg is impossible to beat, and that is reinforced with your comments in game later on. To quote Einstein:
“We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”.
Hope this helps.
Just wanted to say this was en epic post. Einstein even. Nice. /edit I've been losing all my TvZs lately and have been quite frustrated. Your post helped clear away a lot of my negative thinking and attitude.
Glad it helped ; )
Lose a 'good late game', watch the replay, celebrate your improvements, fix your errors. Don't insta-ladder after a loss without understanding why you lost. Rinse, repeat. Hello Masters league.
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On June 16 2013 10:45 Elldar wrote:
Wtf, you kept attacking with a mediocre marine/marauder tank army into a zerg. Not even one attack was good or had potential to do damage. If you really think you can win with such constant mediocre attacks then keep losing. Those type of attack is just giving away units. Just so bad I mean there is no real strategic issue build order wise except for the second engineering bay that was far to early. Just that rallying units into zerg is so fucking bad. Besides when you realized that he got no mutas you should had start dropping. Nakes drop against mutalisks is terrible, but against hydra roach it is the best. So wen you saw that he went hydra roach you should had started to drop and secured a fourth base then let your economic advantage kick in.
This is a really unintelligable post, non-constructive, short-sighted and ignorant, and I don't like it. Marine/Tank is by no means mediocre, that's probably why it's been the metagame in TvZ since WoL first dropped. So just fuck off with this kind of stupidity.
_______ ANYWAY ______
Sensible posts from everyone else. I agree, you have to harass versus Zerg, but I was going into the game with the idea, I could at least win with my initial push and start clearing creep/harassing bases, but he had so much more shit than me, which is fucking unbelievable, since usually when I do this opening, I just overwhelm my opponent with macro and tank zoning, (Last time I did this opening was Diamond League on WoL). But apparently, Zerg's know how to make units instead of drones now.
Once my first push died, I knew the game was over, I hesitated gging right there, just to see if he buckled from any additional pushes.
My standard opening is 12 gas, 13 rax, factory @ 100, barracks reactor @ 50, pull all gas workers, expand, constant hellions rallied to his bases/creep line. Problem is, this almost always gets followed up with huge ling runbys into my nat, which I can't defend, because I sunk my minerals into hellions, and not marines/bunkers. Or the guy goes for a 2 base roach all in, which I simply can't defend without dropping 3-4 bunkers, which I'm not able to do without getting behind, when I'm applying pressure on a mineral based sink. I've tried alternates to my, heavy defense/heavy harass expands. I've opened with reactored mines, but versus people with brains (diamond and up apparently) they just run 1 ling in, and all my mines go off, and then he just rushes in and rapes me. The only unit I've had success with in the early game is the Hellbat, and let's face it, Hellbats are broken as fuck, I'm a Terran, and I think so, and so does Blizzard apparently, since they're planning to nerf them in the next patch, anyway, the point of this is, I don't want to bank on imbalanced units, because that doesn't help me improve.
I watch Innovation dominate TvZ with nothing but macro, and rally-based fighting, he barely micros his units, yeah he drops, and plants a mine here and there, and of course spreads, but that's about the whole of his micro, he just straight up dominates the macro game, and I was attempting that here.
Also to anyone who recommends the CC first into hellions into 3 CC, I have to make you aware, it's great at the pro level yes, but very bad at the diamond/masters level, since diamond/masters opponents will simply all in, or pressure you, and completely shit on your economic advantage, or the player performing it won't have the apm to do so.
Personally my experience with Innovation's 3 CC has been very bad, watching Zerg creep the entire map by 16, and max out at 15 on ling/bling/muta, while I struggle to hold my 4th from bane runbys and muta harass. Economic openings just don't see like any sane person should use them in TvZ, that is by all accounts, saying Innovation is insane. xD
I just checked my WLR for the season. Currently it stands at even 49% and 52%ish in TvP and TvT, and a whopping 20% in TvZ, this is obviously the thing keeping me from getting back to Top 8, and I need to fix it so I can finally get into masters and eventually gm.
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On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 10:45 Elldar wrote:
Wtf, you kept attacking with a mediocre marine/marauder tank army into a zerg. Not even one attack was good or had potential to do damage. If you really think you can win with such constant mediocre attacks then keep losing. Those type of attack is just giving away units. Just so bad I mean there is no real strategic issue build order wise except for the second engineering bay that was far to early. Just that rallying units into zerg is so fucking bad. Besides when you realized that he got no mutas you should had start dropping. Nakes drop against mutalisks is terrible, but against hydra roach it is the best. So wen you saw that he went hydra roach you should had started to drop and secured a fourth base then let your economic advantage kick in. This is a really unintelligable post, non-constructive, short-sighted and ignorant, and I don't like it. Marine/Tank is by no means mediocre, that's probably why it's been the metagame in TvZ since WoL first dropped. So just fuck off with this kind of stupidity. _______ ANYWAY ______ Sensible posts from everyone else. I agree, you have to harass versus Zerg, but I was going into the game with the idea, I could at least win with my initial push and start clearing creep/harassing bases, but he had so much more shit than me, which is fucking unbelievable, since usually when I do this opening, I just overwhelm my opponent with macro and tank zoning, (Last time I did this opening was Diamond League on WoL). But apparently, Zerg's know how to make units instead of drones now. Once my first push died, I knew the game was over, I hesitated gging right there, just to see if he buckled from any additional pushes. My standard opening is 12 gas, 13 rax, factory @ 100, barracks reactor @ 50, pull all gas workers, expand, constant hellions rallied to his bases/creep line. Problem is, this almost always gets followed up with huge ling runbys into my nat, which I can't defend, because I sunk my minerals into hellions, and not marines/bunkers. Or the guy goes for a 2 base roach all in, which I simply can't defend without dropping 3-4 bunkers, which I'm not able to do without getting behind, when I'm applying pressure on a mineral based sink. I've tried alternates to my, heavy defense/heavy harass expands. I've opened with reactored mines, but versus people with brains (diamond and up apparently) they just run 1 ling in, and all my mines go off, and then he just rushes in and rapes me. The only unit I've had success with in the early game is the Hellbat, and let's face it, Hellbats are broken as fuck, I'm a Terran, and I think so, and so does Blizzard apparently, since they're planning to nerf them in the next patch, anyway, the point of this is, I don't want to bank on imbalanced units, because that doesn't help me improve. I watch Innovation dominate TvZ with nothing but macro, and rally-based fighting, he barely micros his units, yeah he drops, and plants a mine here and there, and of course spreads, but that's about the whole of his micro, he just straight up dominates the macro game, and I was attempting that here. Also to anyone who recommends the CC first into hellions into 3 CC, I have to make you aware, it's great at the pro level yes, but very bad at the diamond/masters level, since diamond/masters opponents will simply all in, or pressure you, and completely shit on your economic advantage, or the player performing it won't have the apm to do so. Personally my experience with Innovation's 3 CC has been very bad, watching Zerg creep the entire map by 16, and max out at 15 on ling/bling/muta, while I struggle to hold my 4th from bane runbys and muta harass. Economic openings just don't see like any sane person should use them in TvZ, that is by all accounts, saying Innovation is insane. xD I just checked my WLR for the season. Currently it stands at even 49% and 52%ish in TvP and TvT, and a whopping 20% in TvZ, this is obviously the thing keeping me from getting back to Top 8, and I need to fix it so I can finally get into masters and eventually gm.
Ok you make a lot of generalizations here about Zerg, and never try and emulate professional builds at your level. I have watched your replay and I gave a response, but when I read here in your last post that you believe his unit count to be "fucking unbelievable" I tender this analysis to you sir.
Watching the income tab from 5 min to 12 mins, the Zerg's economy is superior because:
(a) he pretty much droned heavily into a 3 base expand (because he saw no early aggression/harass)
(b) he had a macro hatch down and ready BEFORE your push came
(c) excellent scouting gave him heaps of warning, so he simply floods an army in from a 3 base-plus-1-macro hatch economy.
(d) he had overlords positioned to spot drops, he controlled both watch towers, he scouted your building infrastructure, he had decent creep spread and vision.
Given these 4 points, how in the hell can you be in the dark about how you lost? (forgive the pun)
Your assumptions that your build should have won, because it won in the past, is such backward logic I don't know where to begin (Sorry I'm being honest and as constructive as possible). You cannot blindly follow a build with minimal scouting and expect it perform because you saw a pro do it. I mean c'mon man. But before you think about that, think about this:
Your opponent, through excellent scouting, read you like a book. He simply saw no drop play, no harass play, and in seeing that, droned relatively heavily and simply out macro-ed you. That is all there is too it. It really is as simple as that.
Also, the zerg never got supply blocked. You were supply blocked multiple times. I don't suggest your plan won't work, I think it could use better execution and scouting and less assumptions.
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On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:
This is a really unintelligable post, non-constructive, short-sighted and ignorant, and I don't like it. Marine/Tank is by no means mediocre, that's probably why it's been the metagame in TvZ since WoL first dropped. So just fuck off with this kind of stupidity.
Yeah that guy was being a jerk, but I think it's generally accepted by now that mines work better than tanks overall in TvZ, with the exception of defending early baneling attacks.
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On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:Also to anyone who recommends the CC first into hellions into 3 CC, I have to make you aware, it's great at the pro level yes, but very bad at the diamond/masters level, since diamond/masters opponents will simply all in, or pressure you, and completely shit on your economic advantage, or the player performing it won't have the apm to do so.
This is an incorrect conclusion. The CC first into hellions into 3 CC is, in fact, fine vs all-in or pressure builds. If you want to win with a macro advantage, this is the build for you.
I have also coached a plat friend to high diamond teaching them that as their TvZ with no issues at all.
Also, if you want to get to masters and then gm then you will want to master this style as it is what the entire metagame is based off of. Even if you don't use this build in your normal tournament games etc you will still want to know it because all of the timings in the matchup revolve around it.
On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:Personally my experience with Innovation's 3 CC has been very bad, watching Zerg creep the entire map by 16, and max out at 15 on ling/bling/muta, while I struggle to hold my 4th from bane runbys and muta harass. Economic openings just don't see like any sane person should use them in TvZ, that is by all accounts, saying Innovation is insane. xD
Submit to me like 2-4 replays of you doing the CC first into 3 CC (prefer against different styles so I can comment on both defending all-ins and executing the macro correctly) and I will go over them with a fine tooth comb.
Check your PMs for a message btw.
edit-
On Marine/Tank: While marine tank is no worse off than it was in WoL (as far as from the Terran perspective) the Zerg response to it is now stronger. Mutas, both being faster and with their heal, are made for picking off tanks. The increased speed makes it easier to dart in and kill a tank and their increased healing allows them to take more damage and still keep their muta count up. Add to that the fact that marine tank is very weak whenever it loses the tank count and has to re-mass tanks and you will see why marine tank is actually worse now than it used to be. The widow mine forces extra micro for the zerg to pick it off and is not as hard for the Terran to remake. This combination of factors compose the reasoning behind 4M replacing marine tank as the go to macro composition in TvZ.
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On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:
Also to anyone who recommends the CC first into hellions into 3 CC, I have to make you aware, it's great at the pro level yes, but very bad at the diamond/masters level, since diamond/masters opponents will simply all in, or pressure you, and completely shit on your economic advantage, or the player performing it won't have the apm to do so.
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This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. This build works in any league if you know how to scout and react to zerg aggression.
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On June 16 2013 15:45 Vies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:
Also to anyone who recommends the CC first into hellions into 3 CC, I have to make you aware, it's great at the pro level yes, but very bad at the diamond/masters level, since diamond/masters opponents will simply all in, or pressure you, and completely shit on your economic advantage, or the player performing it won't have the apm to do so.
. This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. This build works in any league if you know how to scout and react to zerg aggression.
I'll help you begin.
Pros deal with MUCH MORE ALLINS than you EVER will. Pros use what they use because it is EFFECTIVE vs the majority of the allins (IF NOT ALL).
I downloaded this replay because someone in the reply mentioned marine tank (jesus fucking outdated christ) in the replay so I had to watch.
Sure, 3 cc hellion openers might be a bit risky if your mechanics arent up to scratch, but what you are doing in this replay is way off dude.
You mention in your other reply that if you fix your TvZ you'll get your way back to masters and GM.
Heres the truth buddy. You played like a terran one year into Wings of Liberty. Screw masters and GM, I dont even know how you made it into diamond man. You opened two base bio tank with no bunker or wall off at the front, which is actually pretty allin by today's standards, but Im going to skip that. You pushed out blind with no combat shield, one medevac for a gigantic army, proceed to PARK on the creep with no siege, bunched up, miraculously you didnt lose the game right there, you proceeded to move around blindly in FULL VISION of the zerg, walk down a ramp into a choke, and get raped right there without even bothering to stim or split until everything was pretty much was dead. That right there is silver league shit dude.
Your opponent was cheating? Thats your excuse in the OP? He banked 1500 minerals before the 9 minute mark and was obviously distracted by your odd and outdated opener since he was really confused after floating his OS in, saw too much production facilities for two bases and saw no third.
"How the fuck do you even deal with that?" Try NOT pushing out blind. Try NOT parking your army on creep in full vision. What you think you are playing protoss or something? Not even protoss dares to push out this blindly, and you prefer using marine tank - which is the most fragile and information reliant army comp in the terran arsenal.
Advice for you? Other than micro/macro mechancis issue? Fix your opener. There are much better bio tank openers than what you can muster up with. If you really want my advice, go pure marine marauder two base. Dont bother with the tanks. Get more medevacs and see how that fits. If you really cannot handle hellion only openers, try hellion banshee. If you dont understand the concept of hellion banshee, then just straight marine marauder medevac. You arent ready for marine tank yet dude, and its not even a good general strategy since 2 years ago.
To quote yourself, the last time you used this opener was in Wings of liberty. It doesnt work anymore dude.
Regarding your standard opener - nowadays pros open 3 cc hellion while still being able to afford a full wall off, a bunker and a marauder with two marines in the bunker before any kind of all in hits - consider checking into those replays/vods/ or even threads (there was one on here recently) If you still dont like it, try hellion banshee, especially since the patch is coming around.
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On June 16 2013 12:07 xRiotZx wrote:
This is a really unintelligable* post, non-constructive, short-sighted and ignorant, and I don't like it. Marine/Tank is by no means mediocre, that's probably why it's been the metagame in TvZ since WoL first dropped. So just fuck off with this kind of stupidity.
On June 16 2013 14:44 adius wrote:
Yeah that guy was being a jerk, but I think it's generally accepted by now that mines work better than tanks overall in TvZ, with the exception of defending early baneling attacks.
I don't see why that guy was being a jerk and I think you both misunderstood. I believe Elldar was saying that the SIZE of the force was mediocre, not the composition.
Aside from the other obvious effects, more medivacs (and use of them for drops) will help you to transport your forces more quickly, so long as you watch out for potential muta flocks, hydralisks on the ground and potential infestors, which will help you to surprise the enemy and snipe bases. It'll also help you to minimise the benefits of their creep spread by giving the zerg less time to react, because you'll be flying quickly over or around creep instead of slowly marching your army in full vision. This is pretty important to you, seeing as you apparently have no intention of scouting much, clearing creep, or pressuring without overcommitting (you can clear some creep easily if you do this) and roach hydra is not the fastest army composition.
Also unintelligible does not mean what you think it means. You just meant unintelligent.
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On June 16 2013 14:49 vaderseven wrote:This is an incorrect conclusion. The CC first into hellions into 3 CC is, in fact, fine vs all-in or pressure builds. If you want to win with a macro advantage, this is the build for you.
I've seen lots of people talk about this, about how the 3CC helion actually holds various roach all-ins. Are you guys really sane? Do you hold when Soulkey and TLO all-ins you on ladder with roach-bane and you've gone Innovation 3cc helion? Because I don't tbh
What am I missing, what kind of boss mode do you guys engage that players like myself and Innovation can't ? Most are minor things, easily missed, but some are of galactic significance, universal even. And these dramas must be witnessed if they are to register in the universal paean to the dark monarchs.
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On June 16 2013 11:17 Dan26 wrote:
[]... thinking and innovation can win you the game...[]
Sadly there is only one of them, and i think he is rather busy :D.
OT: Dans reply sums the key things you have to work on. I switched from Z to T and i am struggling too. Please keep fighting for our glorious Terran race!
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I watch Innovation dominate TvZ with nothing but macro, and rally-based fighting, he barely micros his units, yeah he drops, and plants a mine here and there, and of course spreads, but that's about the whole of his micro, he just straight up dominates the macro game, and I was attempting that here.
No you played nothing at all like Innovation. The innovation style is based on attacking and attacking with mobile units which always can escape if they get ooverrunned while outmultitasking the opponent. Your style was more timing attack based (where you commited and had to do damage), but your timing wasn't even good tbh, it seemed absolutely random.
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he barely micros his units, yeah he drops, and plants a mine here and there, and of course spreads
Made me smile
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EPT
