[N] Sicilian Mafia Style

On July 16 2013 13:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Masoning strong town-reads can be a pretty bad idea under certain circumstnaces. For example, if one of your strong town-reads is a newbie without much scum-hunting clout, there's no point in masoning him. Similarly, you want to avoid a situation where everyone masons one player thereby wasting a whole bunch of town's resources.

On July 16 2013 14:00 Hapahauli wrote:

Circles don't have to necessarily form around one player. That being said, everyone masoning someone like a town Sandro probably wouldn't be all that bad. I'd have to think about this some more.

On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote:

While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all.

On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:


I actually second this. Sloosh answer.
This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is?
##Vote: slOosh

On July 17 2013 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I meant you are discouraging people to mason if they are unsure of what to do with PM's. That's dumb. Why are you telling people they don't need to mason anyone if they do not want to? Of course they do, because it helps town.

If you are unsure of what to do with your PM's and therefore do not mason, don't listen to slOosh, he should know better.
Mason me and i'll tell you what to do. FFS you can ask your mason partner how you should use your PM's, and tell the thread what he said. Be creative and not fall into this dumb "i'm so bad in off-thread comm, i ignore it" bullshit.

I will lynch you if you ignore it, because off thread comm helps town more than it helps mafia. It gives the town opportunity to make plans and catch scum in different ways. And don't give that bullshit "what if you mason mafia or are wrong about your read". That'll come clear eventually, or you out your logs and someone else might be able to see it.

On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.

On July 17 2013 03:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy fuck. This is why we have off-thread communication, this is from DrH's post:


[16:07:44] <raynpelikoneet> have you talked a lot with DrH?
[16:07:53] <Oatsmaster> somewhat
[16:07:59] <Oatsmaster> quite a lot i guess
[16:07:31] <raynpelikoneet> does he have any good points?
[16:07:37] <Oatsmaster> hmm
[16:07:04] <Oatsmaster> well he doesnt know how hapa and vayne play
[16:07:12] <Oatsmaster> and he thinks FT is confirmed scum

DrH explain, what's going on here?

On July 17 2013 11:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Yeah, that's really stupid. I don't have multiple posts to waste talking about why meta arguments are fine when they're used correctly but people should listen to the podcast about "The Game".

I've used meta arguments before to kill scum (see: Vivax in TL Mafia LXI)

On July 17 2013 14:26 kushm4sta wrote:
k nvm i guess mananegos pretty scummy lol. Probably the most absent non modkill player\.

After skimming all the filters, someone stands out as looking really bad is SLOOSH.
Clearly the the guy is reading the thread really close (which scum do in the beginning of the game). All he's doing is hardcore nitpicking what people say.

On July 17 2013 00:54 slOosh wrote:

What?

I said if people are unsure, they should avoid it because it can cause more problems than be of benefit. How am I making a "concerted effort to discourage people from using PMs"?

Original Message From VisceraEyes:
No he was talking about MZ. I misread that and just never clarified it. I'll say as much in thread because it's the truth if you want, but he's not even paying any attention to the game and hasn't mentioned it so it's meh.

I just want him to die. He's not doing anything. I desire no thread presence this game because I'm trying something new this game. We'll see how it goes.

I'm under 50% of my allotted posts already. I'm not sure what more you expect of me anyway XD

On July 18 2013 06:14 layabout wrote:
gumshoe i picked out the point which you were being dickish to me over, cus you know, i dont like that

VE always posts like that and i never said i thought he was scum, your points sucked so i thought i should point it out.

On July 17 2013 08:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
DESPITE THIS - I think it's interesting that you chose to attack me after I defended you and the way you did is making me lean that you are town and this is just a bad misunderstanding, actually. Or I did. But your phrasing is odd in your latest post. It makes it seem like the fact that I backed off AT ALL is scummy to you. Why? Should you always tunnel the first person you vote for 100% of the time? Should you ignore a persons defense under every circumstance?

If FT Is town, he knows he is town and he perceives his posts likely to be very townie. If FT defends himself from Player X who then says "ah, the way you defended yourself indicates you're town" why would FT then turn around to say "How suspicious that you think I'm town, you must be scum". If FT truly was town, wouldn't he accept that argument? If Player X (Me in this case) decides his defense is town-indicative (assuming FT is town) then player x is CORRECT and FT should feel as though his argument/defense was a success. Implying that it is scummy to defend you implies INHERENT GUILT.

Let me reference my argument against Promethelax in LX which was almost proof that he was scum:


If FT is town then I was CORRECT to back off of him considering he put in the effort to defend himself, there can't possibly be anything scummy about that INHERENTLY but in his latest post he's not even referencing the context of my change of heart he's calling it scummy IN and OF itself.

^ a more succinct way of putting it. I'll wait for FT's explanation of this, because there is another aspect to his attack on me that differs from what Promethelax did although it's getting closer and closer to Prom's confirmed scum arguments so I'll just have to wait.

On July 18 2013 06:30 Koshi wrote:
Ok, so this vote is incredible close and I am going to bed in 40 minutes. My targets are VE and Malongo. IF there is nothing solid I think I am going to vote Malongo so that everything can happen with the last votes.
VE just made a big post and I believe he proved that he is willing to keep doing that in future days. Malongo isn't doing anything and I am afraid he might up being a lurker for the rest of this game. Or keep doing these stupid posts.

On July 18 2013 06:42 Koshi wrote:

Nothing, but at least he posted something. What has Malongo done? Who will be easier to read, the guy that posts or the guy that doesn't post. I need a good reason not to vote Malongo.

Original Message From slOosh:

Since you conveniently ran out of posts, let's do this in PMs and I'll quote our dialogue.

Describe to me how the votes on me are apart from anything mechanic?

Why are you dropping your scumread on Malongo despite your grand certainty on it?

Original Message From slOosh:
Hrmm ...

What do you think of layabout's stance on PM usage?

Original Message From VisceraEyes:

No he was talking about MZ. I misread that and just never clarified it. I'll say as much in thread because it's the truth if you want, but he's not even paying any attention to the game and hasn't mentioned it so it's meh.

I just want him to die. He's not doing anything. I desire no thread presence this game because I'm trying something new this game. We'll see how it goes.

I'm under 50% of my allotted posts already. I'm not sure what more you expect of me anyway XD

Original Message From slOosh:
What's going on VE? I can see you have thoughts but you have no desire for any thread presence. Y'know. Like Carnival Cruise.

Malongo didn't even mention me or is that just another ploy?

On July 18 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Ok, everyone who votes VE now is dumb.

And rereading SlOosh, I actually feel dumb cause he got heavily misrepresented at the start by Rayn/Hapa/FirmTofu, that doesn't change the fact that he lacked a scumhunting effort until his comeback into a thread with the sentiment to lynch VE.
SlOosh should have some more time to show if his scumhunting is genuine.

Nevertheless, I think ace should be lynched today,, or anyone being a lurker. This "leave it to the blues" attitude is like a virus of stupidity that spread through the forums at some point. There is no fucking point in not lynching someone who is either actively useless or detrimental, or openly mocks town, especially Day 1 when there's a high chance of crapshooting.

VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace.

Scum's ideal D1 strategy is to keep their head low. Tendentially, you can't easily shit over someone who doesn't post anything you could use against him. And if you try to lynch him, the "leave it to the vigs" jubjubs come out of the holes to call the policy lynch decision bad, when it's simply a legit way for scum to play (to the point of being considered a policy lynch).

On July 18 2013 07:31 marvellosity wrote:

This is some prime bullshit by the way slOosh. Anyone who knows VE also knows that in the past several months he's been significantly less active in general, in both his town and scum games.

What's particularly ridiculous is that you're calling him out for lurking (?) when this is a post-count restriction game and he's used up almost all his posts already.

On July 18 2013 07:33 HiroPro wrote:

Oh don't even try this. If viscera hadnt unvoted, you would be in here clamoring about how viscera was wasting his vote and had no good reasons.

On July 18 2013 09:55 layabout wrote:
It is not without regret that i will be voting for VisceraEyes today.

He made a claim that i see no good reason for town to make. He did not explain it. He did not attempt to confirm it. He simply used it for self preservation.

Everytime time he does this i will vote for him.
#vote: VisceraEyes

other stuff:

slightly waffly context:
It's important to note that the things you share in PMs and the things you share with the thread are very different. In general stuff in the thread is posted to works towards a goal like getting reaction persuading people directing discussion etc. But in PMs you can talk about the game the big and the small, the little things that you are thinking about but might not want to share with the thread or that you want another opinion on.

But a very large part of VE's reason for voting slOosh is that slOosh is PMing VE about the small stuff. Or rather something that VE does not think should be the main focus of the game right now. But what slOosh has done is send a perfectly reasonable PM and VE has tried to use that to tell us that slOosh's priorities are skewed as if slOosh had posted that in the thread.

VE's entire reason for pushing slOosh is inflated and intentionally out of context.

I challenge you to read malongo's filter and come back and say it justifies VE's efforts in pushing him.

VE is scum

On July 18 2013 11:33 layabout wrote:
kill meapak, he deserves to get lynched and the VE situation will likely resolve itself

On July 19 2013 01:39 layabout wrote:
@slOosh dont ask dumb questions

On July 19 2013 07:30 FirmTofu wrote:
slOosh: slOosh never bothered to defend himself when he was faced with an imminent lynch. Many people came to his defense(me included), with little reasoning to justify his survival. slOosh is a borderline lurker and all he has ever done this game is defend himself. There is absolutely no scumhunting in his filter, just see for yourself.

Note that NONE of these players ever gave a good reason why they thought slOosh was innocent. They barely even talked about slOosh. Why did they vote MZ instead of slOosh if they could never provide a legitimate reason why slOosh wasn't mafia? Consider that voting slOosh would guarantee VE's survival, whereas a vote on MZ was not likely to go through. They would have to be very certain of slOosh's alignment in order to adequately justify voting for MZ, considering the situation.

If they actually wanted to save VE, they would have voted slOosh. Why didn't they?

If slOosh is in fact mafia, this indicates that they are avoiding interacting with their teammates to prevent links being formed between each other.

I think the most critical person to lynch in Day 2 is slOosh. With his alignment, we get a plethora of information about numerous people and the chances of him flipping scum are quite high.

On July 18 2013 09:55 layabout wrote:
It is not without regret that i will be voting for VisceraEyes today.

He made a claim that i see no good reason for town to make. He did not explain it. He did not attempt to confirm it. He simply used it for self preservation.

Everytime time he does this i will vote for him.
#vote: VisceraEyes

He made a claim that i see no good reason for town to make. He did not explain it. He did not attempt to confirm it. He simply used it for self preservation.

On July 18 2013 09:08 layabout wrote:
If VE claims dayvig on day1 to save himself from the lynch shouldn't he fire at his scumread?

If he is town then scum know about his role and as town we don't back off of a lynch because the person roleclaimed before we kicked the block from under they feet so that the noose would bite into their neck and cut the supply of air to the lungs and oxygen to the brain.

a last minute claim does not a townie make particularly a non-confirmed confirmable claim.

On July 18 2013 09:23 layabout wrote:
I shall add that VE accepts responsibility for his part in being lynched right before he claims. This is important because the two actions do not fit. Accepting the threads decision is one way to go, he says what he wants to say and accepts the decision to lynch him. Then he follows it up with a roleclaim to keep himself alive. It is not helpful, he does not support it although he should be able to confirm it. If he is town he has not helped town with that claim as he should be able to. What he has does is give people a reason to doubt or take back their votes to look after himself.

On July 18 2013 11:33 layabout wrote:
kill meapak, he deserves to get lynched and the VE situation will likely resolve itself