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HotS Nydus worm— What happened?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
April 02 2013 23:45 GMT
#1
Remember this?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366718
I would have just liked to resurrect that thread, but the HotS forum is closed, which was rather lame (should have just been merged with SC2 general and the old threads left open)


At one point people thought that Nydus worm was going to be reinvigorated/buffed for HotS multiplayer, then people heard that it would be campaign-only; but now that HotS is released, they aren't even in HotS! As far as I know the model in that video just seems to appear for a boss and I think also a 'neutral' creep in evolution mission. At least they used the model for SOMETHING, but isn't it kinda disappointing Blizzard didn't do anything with the Nydus worm for HotS?

I'll go off-topic a bit here by stating a bit of a lamenting rant about why I'd rather have a different change —like nydus worm change— than the swarm host.
Personally I wasn't ever much of a fan of the Swarm host. Zerg doesn't really need tank units when they already have zerglings and roaches, and another ranged attacker isn't that useful when they have hydralisks and roaches (and broodlords), and they don't really need a unit-spawning siege unit when they have the Brood Lord. Aside from that, locusts —while obviously useful— have issues where they don't work well as siege units when enemies have units that can regenerate and/or units that deal lots of damage. All protoss units have shields which regenerate, all terran units can be repaired or healed easily, and roaches can regenerate easily with burrow, making locusts very limited in their siege use if the opponent micros/repairs. Units that were already frequently used and very strong against zerg (Planetary fortress, bunker, siege tank, colossus) do excellent against the locusts and make such units even more standard.

The current state nydus worm is in also overlaps with something— overlords with ventral sacs. While one might think that it's a reason to not work more on the the nydus worm, if the nydus worm mechanics were changed enough it would make the two more distinct. Adding attacking nydus worms or creep paths (but not necessarily those options) are some ways of freshening things up and making them more useful and diverse.

I don't even know if this topic is worth discussing though, since obviously HotS is out and Blizzard isn't going to make any more big changes.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
April 02 2013 23:53 GMT
#2
I think you summed it up in your last line. It is unfortunately not worth discussing because this will never happen, at least not until LotV. Even then, I don't foresee a huge nydus change. They're just too situational (which I think would be cool if they weren't, but no one uses them for a reason I feel).
The universe created an audience for itself.
albis
Profile Joined January 2010
United States652 Posts
April 02 2013 23:57 GMT
#3
faster load/unload time maybe so they can be used defensively to connect far off bases like bw.
every punch is thrown with bad intentions with the speed of a devil
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
April 03 2013 00:08 GMT
#4
They're staying with current nydus only because Swarm Hosts + Nydus can be a new thing in ZvX games
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
April 03 2013 00:18 GMT
#5
Blizzard said that the ideas for nydus weren't good enough and zerg already had enough stuff at tier 2 (better hydras, better mutas, swarm hosts)
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
April 03 2013 00:26 GMT
#6
Shooting nydus worm could be pretty OP and hard to balance, I mean how do you justify the cost of something that can pop up anywhere and tank dmg while the rest of your army does dmg. Creep worm is pretty OP because creep is already hard enough to clear simply because it slowly disapates.
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
April 03 2013 00:30 GMT
#7
Looks op as fuck but pretty neat.
esports
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
April 03 2013 00:34 GMT
#8
blizzard said, that host had too much content.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 00:34:44
April 03 2013 00:34 GMT
#9
Zerg has already has insane utility, and these kind of changes would be, quite frankly, ridiculous; I believe Blizzard brought up these "cool" things in the early concept stage of HotS, but they didn't make it into multiplayer for practical reasons like the one listed above.
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
April 03 2013 00:34 GMT
#10
Nydus is already ridiculous as is but only a handful of zergs use them creatively. It does not need a change.
And drops do not make nydus redundant, it makes nydus even stronger...
@KawaiiRiceLighT
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
April 03 2013 00:36 GMT
#11
we already have spinecrawlers that already do a bunch of damage without costing supply. and if these things are units they're just really ridiculous units that would be extremely difficult to deal with :x
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
April 03 2013 00:37 GMT
#12
they took all of the fun zerg things away (burrow banneling movement, ultra charge, different nydus)
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 00:58:36
April 03 2013 00:37 GMT
#13
The Nydus worm (the one with the "Creep Tower" and the one that hits structures) is in the editor.

Just place "Greater Nydus Worm" you can build the Creep Tower, the regular Nydus (which has cargo), and the one that attacks structures.

The Creep Tower takes 10 seconds to build and has the ability to make a long highway of creep in one direction (that lasts as long as the Creep Tower is present).

Edit - NVM, didn't know the video already showed it (bah, youtube changing things again and making it hard for me to view videos >.<).

Edit 2 - Just figured out it was because Youtube automatically entered me in the html5 trial. Opted out and phew... everyone is back to normal and working!
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
April 03 2013 00:39 GMT
#14
Have you guys seen the movie Tremors? Those kind of worms that you can move around underground and come up and stun stuff, that would be cool to have for zerg.
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
Cinim
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark866 Posts
April 03 2013 00:42 GMT
#15
It's quite wrong to say that it's too early for big changes because hots is released, there was some quite major changes early in wol
Hell, it's about time
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
April 03 2013 00:43 GMT
#16
That creep worm looks cool, I wish they would add it. Also changed current nydus.
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
April 03 2013 00:48 GMT
#17
They should atleast make the ends not cost gas to make it sligthy useful.
hundred thousand krouner
Shade_FR
Profile Joined June 2010
France378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 01:02:27
April 03 2013 00:49 GMT
#18
On April 03 2013 08:45 Xapti wrote:

At one point people thought that Nydus worm was going to be reinvigorated/buffed for HotS multiplayer, then people heard that it would be campaign-only; but now that HotS is released, they aren't even in HotS!

I hate reading false info. People claimed it was "Single player only" because in early beta there were the worms models in the Map Editor, but not when playing Multiplayer.



IN FACT : The 2 new Worms were planned for MULTI-PLAYER ONLY, RIGHT FROM THE START.

Source : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4055889

Zerg
Zerg are the most stable and largely unchanged since BlizzCon. The swarm host is still serving well as a zerg siege unit that can burrow and pressure the enemy from a distance (in a very zergy way), but the viper has some slightly different new abilities. In addition to Abduct, the viper also has the ability to blind biological units in an area of effect. Blinded units have their range reduced to 1. This is obviously effective against terran infantry as well as zerg roach and hydra armies. The viper can also regain energy by feeding off of minerals. This locks up the mineral patch and prevents it from being harvested, so you want to use this ability away from your base.

We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.

We are also trying some additional abilities on the nydus network to allow you to spawn different types of nydus worms. The most interesting worms have been a worm that can spew creep across several screens to create a zerg assault highway, as well as a worm that attacks only enemy buildings, meant to be used as a ground-based zerg base raider.



Then David Kim said this on the Beta forum :

Source : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5348735202

The new Nydus Worm ideas didn't work out well in our internal testing.

They were one of our stronger units, but just didn't make the cut for the launch of beta.

Right now, we think the changes to Zerg are in the right dirrection and currently have no plans to revisit these new Nydus ideas any time soon.



Anyway, I think Nydus Worm needs to be changed, somehow.
EU Zerg player - Streaming @ http://twitch.tv/shade_cst
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
April 03 2013 00:54 GMT
#19
Dustin Browder said on US Beta forum (deleted) that it didn't make it because they couldn't balance it (which is a lame answer, they didn't even let the players play with it)


Free 1button creep spread and a teleportable building attacker that can't be stopped by anti-drop static D would be balanced by....
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Csong
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada396 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 01:00:34
April 03 2013 00:58 GMT
#20
Those look pretty imbalanced and I dont think theres any way of making something like that balanced in sc2
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