EPTHotS Nydus worm— What happened? - Page 3
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Zygno
Austria276 Posts
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Eiskaffee
Germany31 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:34 Zygno wrote: I play Terran and think the Nydus worm isn't very good and would deserve a buff. Not sure how to change it though~ While they make it buildable anywhere, it can't be buffed. It's too strong vs slow armies if you can't kill it in your main before it sets off. If it was on creep only and a defensive thing they could give it a HP buff or something, but I still think defensive it's good already it's just nobody uses them. You as zerg basically have really great map vision if you're creep spread is good so you can get units in and out of it before they arrive at your base. | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:08 Existor wrote: They're staying with current nydus only because Swarm Hosts + Nydus can be a new thing in ZvX games That would be great, I love aggressive nydus strategies | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:16 avilo wrote: You obviously have no clue what i'm talking about. In command and conquer base defenses were instantly built and instantly popped up from the ground and could be placed anywhere you had a building radius. What ended up happening was static base defense became so strong you could literally attack people with your buildings and turrets which made the game incredibly stupid and "easy." This nydus worm is obviously not in the game for very similar reasons - it's impossible and not ever going to be worth balancing a unit you can essentially instantly have on the map that attacks on it's own. Not going to happen. All of the things you listed on the other hand are no where near as bad in comparison and deal with creating actual units within the game, not static buildings. Since you obviously had no fucking clue what i'm talking about but decided to inanely respond anyways...the best way i can describe it would be if you could attack your opponent with supply depots that are cheap and able to compete with the military units within the game cost for cost. Take my response with a grain of salt, because I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. However, who says that these fictitious supply depots that are cheap could compete with the military units in the game cost for cost? You made that up to support your argument. That may have been the case in C&C, but it wouldn't have to be in sc2. I'm not saying that these kinds of nydus canals even need to be in the game, but to say that they would be impossible to balance when something like force fields exist is... interesting. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I do think the original nydus can get a slight buff in controls. For example you should be able to set it to auto unload so you can actually use it as a nydus canal. Ie, you just put your hives' waypoints to the nydus and then new units automatically unload at the nydus spot. At the moment nydus has some nice niche usage as a surprise tactic but I see it being used way too few as just a way to transport units quickly. For example I'd love to see nydus just used to swarm locusts into a base (leaving the hosts at your end of the nydus) or just using them to reinforce quicker to different bases. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
 I wish the first 2/3 of the beta was based on "what is fun" and then balance from there. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On April 03 2013 12:50 avilo wrote: Anyone that's played command and conquer knows why these nydus worms will never, i repeat, never make it into SC2. They should take a page out of tiberian suns book and make it so you can build concrete ground that stops burrow/nydus ^__^ | ||
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Sherlock-Canada
Canada269 Posts
Ultimately, this would strengthen the zerg quite a bit, so I imagine it would upset the balance of the game. (It is hard to say yet what races need buffs) But it would make the Nydus Worm quite useful. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
I wonder if it's possible to proxy mine a base with nydus and drones? And picture a player with beastly multi tasking in the mid or late game using constant pressure through multiple nydus attacks all over the map. I also imagine there are some strong timing attacks where you use the nydus to negate travel distance, though I'm pretty sure I've seen Effort use a build like that to great effect before so I guess that isn't completely undiscovered. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
On April 03 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote: Can you imagine how imbalanced those nyduses would be in multiplayer mode? I still feel that the current Nydus is relatively undiscovered. I can picture a lot of tricks that could be used with it by advanced players. A few ideas off the top of my head. I wonder if it's possible to proxy mine a base with nydus worms? And picture a player with beastly multi tasking in the mid or late game using constant pressure through multiple nydus attacks all over the map. You can mine a base, but you have to constantly tell them unload on the correct side according to whether they have minerals or not for every single trip, as well as unloading them to the hatchery and then telling them to return to the nydus (so not really feasible). Late game pressure would be awesome in theory, but they die so fast and use so much gas, in addition to not being able to be cancelled of course. I would love to see nydus play over running to just end a game though, it's such a Zergy concept I wish could work.Edit: On April 03 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote: I also imagine there are some strong timing attacks where you use the nydus to negate travel distance, though I'm pretty sure I've seen Effort use a build like that to great effect before so I guess that isn't completely undiscovered. Yeah, that can still work.  | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:50 Qikz wrote: While they make it buildable anywhere, it can't be buffed. It's too strong vs slow armies if you can't kill it in your main before it sets off. If it was on creep only and a defensive thing they could give it a HP buff or something, but I still think defensive it's good already it's just nobody uses them. You as zerg basically have really great map vision if you're creep spread is good so you can get units in and out of it before they arrive at your base. I really disagrees with the "too strong against slow armies" part. I can't see how something is too strong if you can destroy it with 10 Workers before it emerges from the ground... I also think that Nydus is in "ok" place, and I think that they are really underused, but I don't see them as too strong vs. anything. | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
Some pro's have put the nydus into good use in Hots, such as Spanishiwa using it to siege a Protoss going FFE with queens and swarm hosts which he moved across the map using the nydus network. Unless it will be buffed in future patches, I don't see how the current state of Nydus Worm usage will change soon | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:16 avilo wrote: You obviously have no clue what i'm talking about. In command and conquer base defenses were instantly built and instantly popped up from the ground and could be placed anywhere you had a building radius. What ended up happening was static base defense became so strong you could literally attack people with your buildings and turrets which made the game incredibly stupid and "easy." This nydus worm is obviously not in the game for very similar reasons - it's impossible and not ever going to be worth balancing a unit you can essentially instantly have on the map that attacks on it's own. Not going to happen. All of the things you listed on the other hand are no where near as bad in comparison and deal with creating actual units within the game, not static buildings. Since you obviously had no fucking clue what i'm talking about but decided to inanely respond anyways...the best way i can describe it would be if you could attack your opponent with supply depots that are cheap and able to compete with the military units within the game cost for cost. Maybe next time you explain what you are talking about to begin with instead of being enigmatic and waiting to jump on the first person who responds. | ||
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KapsyL
Sweden704 Posts
On April 03 2013 21:58 Toss.Pro- wrote: Maybe a much quicker unload time when built on creep rather than off of creep. This would boast it's defensive uses without making it imbalanced. I like this idea. Then again.. Do zerg really Need the nydus worm? I mean.. they seem to be doing quite fine with their sick creepspread | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
As the most mobile race, and the race which can most easily repopulate high tech units, it simply cannot have an army which can wipe out the other races. Supply free units in WOL made the game imbalanced. Infested Terran, Broodlings, and Sunken walls were the reason. Blizzard couldn't give Zerg another. That creep one might've been cool. | ||
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Radison
Poland44 Posts
1) Very Zergish style of infesting the map with creep (and buildings) 2) Spines and Spores wouldn't be too affected by slow unloading animation on Nydus 3) Higher reward for costly Nydus, with the probability of being detected still the same. 4) Such a good synergy with Swarm Host contain attempts (like a Brood War Lurker contain... )5) Nydus already spreads the creep around itself while popping out 6) Not imbalanced, probably, as the time to borrow spines and spores (spines especially) is long enough in my opinion | ||
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:26 -_- wrote: Zerg cannot have the strongest 200/200 army As the most mobile race, and the race which can most easily repopulate high tech units, it simply cannot have an army which can wipe out the other races. Supply free units in WOL made the game imbalanced. Infested Terran, Broodlings, and Sunken walls were the reason. Blizzard couldn't give Zerg another. That creep one might've been cool. Swarm hosts? | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:58 Csong wrote: Those look pretty imbalanced and I dont think theres any way of making something like that balanced in sc2 yeah, if the dmg is too high, they're op as hell and if it's to little noone uses them. And especially against Terran with no static anti ground def, it would be just a joke... | ||
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