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On June 16 2013 04:32 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:33 Daswollvieh wrote:On June 01 2013 04:37 DavoS wrote:
If Blizz buffed the worm so that you could cancel a nydus worm being built then I'd probably use them way more Oh, you can´t? Well, that´s pretty silly. That would be monstrously powerful lol. Essentially free teleport where you have vision. Where do I defend? :D
First of all, I think you're misunderstanding. He's saying cancellable, not salvageable.
Secondly, even if you were thinking salvaging, salvaging isn't free anymore, it's 75% refund (although considering that it's a trait specific to a single unit/structure, I suppose if they were to introduce it to another unit, it could be different refund rate).
On June 16 2013 01:00 Orangered wrote:
Yeah. It's been a long time since I last say nydus on ladder.? Zergs whats up??
That isn't even the issue. The issue is that it was nearly never used except as explicitly I'm-not-trying-too-hard tactics, which are typically all-in or just to have fun since the person doing it is already far ahead and/or a more competent/experienced player. One of the big reasons people used them is just for the sake of variety and such, but after a few months of WoL, that sort of interest dies off.
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On June 16 2013 01:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 00:02 Zailemaos wrote:
nydus worms need more armor so they dont get killed by workers.. it just feels so stupid nydusing into the enemy base only to have them pull workers and kill it. You are supposed to multi-prong. Watch any Terran progamer drop 4 hellbats onto a mineral line and wipe it completely uncontested. It's because of a decent army poking in the front or killing their 3rd base.
Wtf are you talking about? What time does it take for 2 hellbats to kill a mineral line without units being pulled compared to the time it takes for a nydus to finish. Not to mention you don't lose gas from dropping hellbats and you can't kill hellbats with an scv/drone/probe. That is literally the dumbest comparison to make. It is more like a protoss warping in units into a base, however even that can't be killed off by workers.
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I think if they made nydus canals much cheaper but require infestation pit it would be used a lot more.
Right now the cost to benefit ratio is way off for it to be used enough to really see the potential. It is relatively easy to scout and to easy to kill. If you try it mid game and fail the loss of resources put you so far behind. Also the loading and unloading speed is so slow it isn't even useful enough to link bases on large maps for defense late game.
It could have been cool with minor tweaks but they scrapped to many cool things for Zerg in HotS.
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On June 16 2013 08:28 Shade_FR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 04:46 Patate wrote:
that " internal testing" is just crap. If they actually tested stuff, the initial hellbats drops would have never been released. They just didn't want to work hard on their game so they claim all the ideas they said they were gonna work on were actually tested but didn't work. Well, David Kim admited that his worst race was Terran, and told us he might have buffed Terran too much because of it. He's a random player, his Protoss and Zerg skills are good, but his Terran is poor.
Recently he said this? Reference?
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On June 18 2013 00:34 dreamseller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:28 Shade_FR wrote:On June 16 2013 04:46 Patate wrote:
that " internal testing" is just crap. If they actually tested stuff, the initial hellbats drops would have never been released. They just didn't want to work hard on their game so they claim all the ideas they said they were gonna work on were actually tested but didn't work. Well, David Kim admited that his worst race was Terran, and told us he might have buffed Terran too much because of it. He's a random player, his Protoss and Zerg skills are good, but his Terran is poor. Recently he said this? Reference?
Sure, sorry for not linking the source, it was Blizzard Reddit "Ask me Anything" when HoTS came out :
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/8983614/
DK: The most important thing we realized was feedback we get both from ourselves and from pros need to be weighted depending on skill. For example, I personally have a hard time playing Terran compared to the other two races. And back then because I was one of the players who was playing at the highest level, I took this personal experience as a bit too much of an important factor. In the hots Beta, I was also struggling the most as Terran, but this seemed correct for the balance of the game. And sure enough, all the major tournaments that happened so far, all three races balance is looking solid, many Koreans are also saying Terran is the strongest, and overall just gauging my skill level vs. how the game should be more correctly this time around is working out much better.
David Kim (you need to play Random when working on balance at Blizzard) was the only good player at Blizzard for a long time and Terran is his worst race... it had an impact on his decisions to balance the game.
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On June 16 2013 03:12 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 03:00 Elldar wrote:
They should just change the worm to not make that annoying scream, we don't get a protoss roar every time a warp prism warp-ins. And let in unload quicker by setting cap on cargo space that can be unload. Something like 8 cargo spaces of units will get unload. Which would mean for example 1 ultra or 8 lings would unload at the time. That's actually a good idea, really. The scream for nydus is ok I guess, since ghost nukes also warn your opponents. I'd love some nydus changes, because to be honest, I've never used them outside of being pylon-walled in my main before they fixed that with neutral depots.
Well, the scream should be removed to make it easier to set up defense without letting your opponent know that you expanded. I personally would hesitate to connect bases with a nydus if a scream and no offensive nydus worm mean I expanded. Besides a nydus work is a big blip on the minimap and the no sound would only make the biggest difference in low leagues and sloppy games in the higher leagues. Most good players already has their base covered and got a keen eye on the minimap. Pro-players will extremly rarely miss a nydus that get started in their base.
The nuke don't show up on the minimap and has a small red marker that show where it will land, the sound makes more sense because it would be extremly hard to see that red dot unless you were looking for it. Besides nuke instant kill units so with no sound it would be too strong. Nydus that is undetected is not guaranteed to do unbelievable damage.
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On June 16 2013 01:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 00:02 Zailemaos wrote:
nydus worms need more armor so they dont get killed by workers.. it just feels so stupid nydusing into the enemy base only to have them pull workers and kill it. You are supposed to multi-prong. Watch any Terran progamer drop 4 hellbats onto a mineral line and wipe it completely uncontested. It's because of a decent army poking in the front or killing their 3rd base.
Please, think before posting. Not everyone has the stupid-post filter extension.
OT: I completely agree with giving it 8 cargo space unload speed, it will probably make it worthwhile.
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On June 15 2013 17:59 Xapti wrote:
While I've been a fan of increasing the armor or health of the worm itself, this is a good idea aside from aesthetics (egg is stupid — the fact it's underground is reason enough to give it more armor than normal). In my opinion a dozen workers should not be able to be pulled from mining 14 squares away after discovering a worm's 50% constructed, and yet STILL manage to kill it before it completes.
Waht did you read my underlying thought and still think egg is stupid?
I love to see more eggs from Zergs!!!  anyway, I really want to see nydus worm become 'worth' to use.
On June 18 2013 21:44 Elldar wrote:
Well, the scream should be removed to make it easier to set up defense without letting your opponent know that you expanded. I personally would hesitate to connect bases with a nydus if a scream and no offensive nydus worm mean I expanded. Besides a nydus work is a big blip on the minimap and the no sound would only make the biggest difference in low leagues and sloppy games in the higher leagues. Most good players already has their base covered and got a keen eye on the minimap. Pro-players will extremly rarely miss a nydus that get started in their base.
The nuke don't show up on the minimap and has a small red marker that show where it will land, the sound makes more sense because it would be extremly hard to see that red dot unless you were looking for it. Besides nuke instant kill units so with no sound it would be too strong. Nydus that is undetected is not guaranteed to do unbelievable damage.
This was why I was arguing for some health and/or armor buff. almost anyone can spot nydus worm and kill it.
And this gives me a great idea!
if nydus worm is spawned on creep, it makes no sound (edit: perhaps no warning either?).
It would not be great to use this mechanism to enemies' main base because of the size of overlord's creep spread (too big to miss) but will make a great use in expansion & transportation b/w hatcheries
Conclusion: nydus worm should get buffed either
increase health and/or armor when it emerges from the ground so that it won't die too quickly when spotted by workers
or
make it more 'silent' than now it is.
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EPT
