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TL Mafia LIX

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 17 2013 01:10 GMT
#106
/in ill give a full game a shot
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 00:09 GMT
#204
/confirm
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 02:11 GMT
#221
Not going to bother running for anything since I'm terrible in the first day(and in general, but less so as it goes on) but I'll be placing my vote for mayor on whoever I have the best town read on (unless their plan seems terrible). Agreed on the voting a vet in. If nothing else they'll have enough meta/people have enough experience with them to get better reads off of their actions.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 02:55 GMT
#235
On January 20 2013 11:27 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 11:23 Chezinu wrote:
On January 20 2013 11:20 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 20 2013 11:14 Chezinu wrote:
On January 20 2013 11:10 austinmcc wrote:
On January 20 2013 11:01 debears wrote:
I wanna see a serious chezinu.
Mayor-Chezinu does not necessarily mean serious Chezinu. "I will be serious if mayor" Chezinu does not necessarily mean serious mayor Chezinu.

If you want to vote him because you want him to have bodyguards and to have an extra vote, then by all means. But I don't think anyone should actually assume that Chezinu being mayor will mean anything about the way he plays.

I must disagree. I believe Chezinu will play sanely. The only reason his plays with his brown methods is to survive. If he is already guaranteed to live then his play will certainly change.

the problem really isn't your sanity although that might be part of it.
The problem I see with voting someone like you is that unless you hit mafia d1 there will be a shitstorm d2 with half of the people screaming for your head while the other half doesn't want to lynch you.

It's just not a good situation to be in if you're mayor, no matter of your alignment unless you actually hit mafia d1 and I'm not willing to risk that without a proper read and having better / decent alternatives. Like I said, Sandro should be the #1 person to go to if he's town, he's really good as town but not so much as mafia. Shouldn't be too hard to figure him out if he starts posting

It's basicly the same reasoning for why I'm not running


That already happens. Mayors typically die early if they don't hit scum. That's why my advise was to let the mayor live for a while before murdering him(or her) too quickly. Read the previous game with mayors, it happens all to often.


I know, I've been in some of them. Hence the statement that I'd rather not vote you and instead vote someone who's not a center of paranoia no matter of alignment, someone who is easy to read and good as town.


Makes sense. If this is common however aren't we risking lynching someone who seems easy to read because they mislynched d1 unless they have nearly flawless town play? I wouldn't necessarily lynch them because of a d1 mislynch but if lynching the mayor is probable sometime early doesn't that add incentive to make the mayor someone hard to read side then they're forced into doing something that helps generate a read?
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 03:26 GMT
#246
On January 20 2013 12:25 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 12:22 Chezinu wrote:
On January 20 2013 12:18 Djodref wrote:
Why is running for mayor kind of like suicide ?
If we do our best today to elect a town mayor, I think this goal at least is easily achievable. Then hitting mafia D1 is always difficult, so I don't see why we should lynch the mayor if he doesn't lynch mafia on D1.
I wouldn't lynch the mayor easily any day, if we pay attention to elect a townie ^^

Even if mayor is a town. The mayor isn't safe. I can't say why publicly. Only a veteran or mason can save the mayor. Scary schemes have popped in my mind. To the mason, I will tell. But only if I am elected can I tell the mason. For the mason should contact the mayor. For the mayor would need your help. If elected, I will explain this to every last detail. This is not a troll. I just can't give mafia ideas.

won't it work if someone else besides you gets elected?

But then he'd have to say his idea in the thread.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 03:33 GMT
#247
@Chezinu You promise these things if you're elected but what reason do we have to believe you? If your plan requires you not revealing anything that's all well and good but why should we put our faith in you?
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 20 2013 18:20 GMT
#366
On January 21 2013 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
You also asked for scum reads. In terms of people I'm looking at:

stutters - a few very short posts. Nothing much of substance. Asks some questions to Toad here but never follows any of that up. Easy questions to participate, without really going anywhere with the answers. Mildly scummy for now.

debears - slightly worrisome in the same way. Drops that he won't vote vivax, supports chezinu, gives a short answer when asked "why chezinu" and then dips. Along with stutters, he reads like he showed up because he thought he should make posts, made some posts, lumpY I also remember debears being generally interested in the game, and would expect ... more involvement when he was here, or at the very least more answerage.

Given that this game started Friday night, that we have a couple players we haven't seen ANYTHING from, and a decent number of players we've seen very little from, those are my top reads. Right now I'm not dealing with everything else.

Short posts yes, but it was like two hours into the game. I dropped the questions on toad because he answered and the discussion in the thread cleared it up pretty well for me.

I'm catching up on the thread now.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 21 2013 18:20 GMT
#835
On January 22 2013 02:05 austinmcc wrote:
Quick analysis of Stutters in past games:

Newbie XXVI
Stutters is a vigi. Active D1, not so much after that, gets a small amount of pressure. Says this being active was the anomaly? (That's what I got from a quick, quick filter dive). Noted that he had read past games, asked to have someone's filter added to the OP, had a plan for when and how he claimed as vigi. Shows me that he's read games, was actively reading/trying to read through this game (asking for filters to be added), and had a general game plan.
Newbie XXVII
Modkilled D2 for not voting. However, again shows signs of activity and ... playing the dang game - Filter. He gets on kush early, sees something and finds it scummy + asks questions. Then stays on kush. Follows up, asks more questions, even when he says he has become unsure on kush, he's still actively poking kush and trying to get a read. He also has Real Thoughts. There are others, but I've pulled that one out as a decent example. He's reading thread, gives his own opinion with reasoning to back it up, participates even in a game where he got modkilled later for not voting.
Newbie XXVIII
Town again. Modkilled again for not voting . Based off the vote counts, he picked up 0 votes on D2 and 0 votes on D3, which leads me to believe that people DID NOT interpret him as scummy while being town. More short posts, a lot of "i have to go because of x" and "i'm back from x." Not nearly as much participation, not as much meat, but a little.
Whose Line
Replaced in. Basic thoughts. Seems to be getting pressured some. Responses have actual reasons. responds to some cases and pushes them forward. Did have suspicion on him. Did get mislynched. I wasn't in the game and didn't read along. Replaced into the game though, so I'm not giving this a ton of credence.
YANMM
Again town. Survived til endgame. I see him having 1-2 votes for a couple days, but those votes were ONLY from bugs and vivax, and vivax was scum that game.

Okay, I'm done with this nonsense. The #1 trend I see in Stutters town play is that he won't vote and he'll get modkilled. I DO NOT see the suspicion that Bugs mentioned, except in the two most recent games, and I don't see the votes corresponding with that suspicion in YANMM. It was just bugs and vivax. I DID NOT PLAY YANNM OR WHOSE LINE. I HAVE NOT FULLY READ THEM. NOR HAVE I READ ANY OTHER FULL STUTTERS GAME.

However, in looking at his filters, I see much more play than here. When he's gone, he says so, comes back, fposts actual thoughts. He has suspicions, he makes cases, he is playing the game. Here, he has not played the game. His posts look like empty questions and nothing, which goes directly against his play in other games. I do not buy "he looks scummy as town" based on a replacement game and a game where only scum and bugs voted for him. Bugs, you're more than welcome to refute this and give me some other people who thought stutters was scummy, but upon scanning his past games I'm MORE convinced he's scum this game.

Everyone else, there are the games he's played. You're welcome to check them for yourselves. I find stutters scummy this game, and more scummy after reading his other games.


Just woke up, but I've explained my poor d1 quite a bit in past games. I straight up don't know how to make myself useful (other than interacting with people when they question me. My d1 reads are almost always wrong, so I'm not nearly as active. 
You're attacking me for the same reasons I was attacked in YANMM.

You're also misrepresenting my past games (don't blame you side there is like 1 post game post about it in each and that's it).

In XXVI I got the dumb idea that playing kinda scummy until late game would work out since it'd be between me and one or two other lynch targets, I kill one, claim and win. Other modkill was clearly accidental (like an hour or thirty minutes between me unvoting and getting mod killed).

Those two were exceptions, don't expect me to get modkilled for not caring. You say I'm not playing like my previous games but you're excluding previous games because not enough people voted me? If you checked d1 from YANMM you'd see I only had like five posts d1. You'd also see that I wasn't getting any votes because debears claimed sk d2, we had two town modkills and I dismantled Vivax's case on me so when it came time to lynch one of us it obviously had to be him first. In whose line I replaced yes, but whoever lasted to endgame with iamp (on phone, can't check) said that if he hadn't already checked iamp he would have been the lynch. Both times as the game goes on it becomes glaringly obvious I'm town.

Do you still think I'm scummy if you aren't ignoring my recent games? Seems like you're cherry picking to fit your view of me.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 21 2013 18:45 GMT
#850
Well I was reading in order, didn't see Austin's more recent posts.

1) I get accused of that every game. Falls back to the I suck d1 stuff. Up to you if you believe it, but it happened in YANMM and Whose Line.

2) Weird if you're experienced maybe, but to me I wasn't sure how often a mayor mislynch happens because the first posts in that matter made it seem like an eventuality rather than a possibility. My thinking was that people probably have discussed this in past games and it still resulted in a mayor mislynch. Thus I was asking if using the mayor to force reads out of someone hard to read makes sense. I felt Toad answered it well in the ensuing discussion so I felt no.need to follow it up.

3) You said in the previous post I quoted that I keep the thread informed and come back with actual thoughts. That's true sometimes, but I don't always see something to immediately follow up on. This happened in pretty much every game I play. Again people have attacked me for this.

4)I have a detailed post on this in YANMM but I believe that full disclosure (unless there is some gambit like Proms in the same game) is the best course of action. So when you ask me something and I say "yes, but" you're going to hear why I did it. You may think the reason for a particular instance may be scummy but over the course of the game it will show a clear town mindset and show how I reasoned whatever conclusion I come to.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 21 2013 19:58 GMT
#878
I voted toad because his style seems much easier to read than yours, chezinus, or palmars to me. I even was doubting Palmar after the d1 lynch, and I had a scumread on you that was wrong almost the entire game. Toads style feels much more like my own and I think that will help us analyze why he would do whatever he does after becoming mayor.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 21 2013 20:19 GMT
#886
On January 22 2013 05:00 DearestSnot wrote:
How do we know that FT is Palmar?


I don't think it's confirmed but someone posted about him saying something that sounded like a Palmar post. My point still stands though with a smurf I'm not entirely comfortable since we know so little about them.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 21 2013 21:29 GMT
#919
On January 22 2013 06:24 Vivax wrote:
Cause town could simply admit to have made a mistake. JX is clearly afraid of looking bad to the point that he makes up shit.

What? Anyone in here would just accuse him of making shit up because he's scum if he had just said I messed up, my bad. Pretty null tell imo.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 22 2013 21:59 GMT
#1372
Sorry for my absence so far. The girl just got back into town from a vacation yesterday so I haven't had a lot of free time. I'll try to get some posts in at work and if I survive my activity will pick up.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 22 2013 23:24 GMT
#1393
So you knew he was a smurf due to his silence? Obviously we know he is one now but newbies have entered reel games before and just been overwhelmed. Not a huge deal either way though.

Since you said you said you wouldn't want a smurf due to readability why wouldn't you vote for someone like Toad who is readable instead of supporting Chez? You say that it let you see if Chez was more readable but isn't that the exact same thing as voting a smurf except with a smurf not only does it offer the same chance to read them but also offers a chance of identifying who they are (which you implied you'd like to do)?
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 00:36 GMT
#1400
Nah not trying to look active, if I wanted to just do that I would have been doing it way sooner. Your posts are really hard to read so I'm trying to understand it. I was asking why not toad since in your second to last post before mine you said something about the chez vote potentially making him more readable, which would have also applied to smurfs.

Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 03:11 GMT
#1489
Well this is interesting with debears. When I was reading filters before the night post I noticed he wasn't his usually spammy self. Then I saw the post saying that he didn't sPam because this isn't a mini. Makes sense but his play still doesn't feel quite like what I remember of his nor his posting in the large game he mentioned. In addition to being more active (albeit not spammy) he was constantly asking questions, debating, and pushing reads.

This game feels like he's pushed a meta "read" that was him just promising stuff d2 + 1 scummy post from djo. Since then he's talked policy, said I'd be a better vig than lynch and not much else. A far cry from what I've seen in his town games.

Since he is a bg though that makes me not as sure of this because if he got lynched and I'm wrong we just killed a bg for nothing.

Debears I'd like to see what you would have posted about djo had he not flipped. What made you think he was scum?
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 15:21 GMT
#1640
On January 23 2013 12:11 Stutters695 wrote:
Well this is interesting with debears. When I was reading filters before the night post I noticed he wasn't his usually spammy self. Then I saw the post saying that he didn't sPam because this isn't a mini. Makes sense but his play still doesn't feel quite like what I remember of his nor his posting in the large game he mentioned. In addition to being more active (albeit not spammy) he was constantly asking questions, debating, and pushing reads.

This game feels like he's pushed a meta "read" that was him just promising stuff d2 + 1 scummy post from djo. Since then he's talked policy, said I'd be a better vig than lynch and not much else. A far cry from what I've seen in his town games.

Since he is a bg though that makes me not as sure of this because if he got lynched and I'm wrong we just killed a bg for nothing.

Debears I'd like to see what you would have posted about djo had he not flipped. What made you think he was scum?

Reposting, would like an answer Debears.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 19:44 GMT
#1744
On January 24 2013 04:23 Vivax wrote:
Doesn't need that much time to read the little bit I wrote about yamato right? Why don't you do a quickie on that?

I'm just now reading your interactions with yamato but I'm 99 per cent sure that when he talked to you (also scum) that he was significantly more hostile than your quotes imply. Also did it to a dew townies.

I need to check his filter in empire but I'm not sold at all right now. His play emotionally feels really similar to what it was like when we were in YANMM.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 22:39 GMT
#1836
@bugs (I think it was you (T)WhO asked about my reads)

Currently I think annul is a good lynch. I think (T)What'(T)S been (T)SaiD speaks for itself and his refusal to do anything speaks for his guilt.

The other two people I'(T)M (T)Really eyeing are debears and Vivax. There is a post in dibbers I made last night that sums up (T)What I think of him pretty well. But basically he promised a case on djo, (T)Never delivered and has mostly talked policy since. Since he'(T)S a BG though to (P)Push a lynch on him today would be dumb since if I'(T)M wrong WE (Z)just (Z)Lost a bg over a (Z)Bad read and it isn't sure enough for me to justify that.

Vivax I'(T)M (T)Really unsure of. His case on Yamato is (T)Really weak and a cursory glance through his filter in the last large game he played showed a higher level of logic in his reads compared to this game where he is more confrontational with people who disagree instead of logical.

I had a post with more detailed reasoning typed up but my girlfriend called and I forgot yo submit it before I went up work so I'll have to post that at like 9-11 est when I get off.

In terms of suspicion of I'd say currently debears, vivax, annul. Debears isn't really an option and vivax is actually posting so him living to read a bit longer is much more productive than annul. If annul isn't the target today I'll be pushing for vivax.

Sorry for the TLPD stuff. Phone posting so it's hard to fix.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
January 23 2013 23:14 GMT
#1844
On January 24 2013 07:46 FiveTouch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 07:39 Stutters695 wrote:
@bugs (I think it was you (T)WhO asked about my reads)

Currently I think annul is a good lynch. I think (T)What'(T)S been (T)SaiD speaks for itself and his refusal to do anything speaks for his guilt.

The other two people I'(T)M (T)Really eyeing are debears and Vivax. There is a post in dibbers I made last night that sums up (T)What I think of him pretty well. But basically he promised a case on djo, (T)Never delivered and has mostly talked policy since. Since he'(T)S a BG though to (P)Push a lynch on him today would be dumb since if I'(T)M wrong WE (Z)just (Z)Lost a bg over a (Z)Bad read and it isn't sure enough for me to justify that.

Vivax I'(T)M (T)Really unsure of. His case on Yamato is (T)Really weak and a cursory glance through his filter in the last large game he played showed a higher level of logic in his reads compared to this game where he is more confrontational with people who disagree instead of logical.

I had a post with more detailed reasoning typed up but my girlfriend called and I forgot yo submit it before I went up work so I'll have to post that at like 9-11 est when I get off.

In terms of suspicion of I'd say currently debears, vivax, annul. Debears isn't really an option and vivax is actually posting so him living to read a bit longer is much more productive than annul. If annul isn't the target today I'll be pushing for vivax.

Sorry for the TLPD stuff. Phone posting so it's hard to fix.


The problem with all this is that you're posting in your own little world, with no attachment to what's going on in the thread at all. You say you're going to 'push' something, but that seems unlikely.

My notes from Day 1 tell me you didn't once mention either prplhz or Oatsmaster, and this remains the case with Oatsmaster through today. It's quite concerning.

This is how I play, if you've played with me before you've seen it. I really need to fix it but my d1 reads are such ass I don't even know where to begin.

I probably don't interact enough with people though I'll give you that, but I've been like that every game. I'm trying to improve as I go along.

What do you think about what I actually said though?

As I was typing that post I saw debears promise another read if the conditions are right. I'm wondering if he's so convinced oats is scum why he isn't sharing it now. Oats could still respond and if he thinks he's scum it would encourage discussion about oats around what he thinks is pretty damning.

Yeah gonz I'm going over you guys intersections now. Expect posting in the thread with some full thoughts on it when I get a chance to type it up.
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