EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXI
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Greetings gentlemen! A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion: 1) How many games have you played on TL? 2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1? 3) Pie or Cheesecake? 1. 3 before, and I think I've lost them all. TT 2. It's a dumb idea. Lurkers don't become suspicious unless they avoid direct questions. A townie would be just as likely to lurk day 1 as a red, since real life can get in the the way early on. Plus, if someone is lurking a suspicious amount, and they're mafia, their scum brethren would tell them to pick it up on their posting. 3. It's a biased question, you give us only one flavor of cake, but we have to compare it against an entire class of deserts? What are you trying to imply? That cheesecake is better than any type of pie? In your response you arrogantly dismiss pie. This could be a tactic to make every type of pie be seen as inferior to cheesecake, and that might taint the views of the rest of the players. You know who else trys to change the opinion of the players? Mafia do. Mr. Cheesecake is SCUM | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
On November 25 2012 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: By far the most important question 3) Pie. Or a Light Cheesecake. 1) 0. I am currently in another game 2) I think that we should lynch a lurker D1 yes. Here he says a day 1 lurker lynch is a good idea, which he elaborates on here. On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. however, soon after that, he posts this. On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him So, what can we make about this early contradiction. One option is what he said recently, that he was just trying to stir up discussion. This does make sense of this mess, since he doesn't really want to lynch lurkers, just scare them into talking. I don't feel this is the truth though, because he only claim this after he started getting accused because of his strange ways. Option 2, since he said he has never played a game before, he could just be bad. It seems to me, weather scum or townie, what he did was dumb. He's also doing that thing that noobs sometimes do, where you accuse and accuse until someone starts asking you what's up, and you go into hardcore defense mode. This seems most likely to me, which unfortunately doesn't tell us much about his alliance. Option 3: He is mafia and was trying to pin suspicion on Mr.CC. This may be the case, but he did it so poorly that he brought suspicion upon himself. What makes me think this might be the case is that even after he admitted to not having a case against CC, he voted for him anyways. Later, he has some really bullshit reasoning which right before he says this. On November 25 2012 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote: OH YES FINALLY, you say why my behaviour is scummy. :D My explanation is that his first 2 posts seem off. What do you want? Cheesecake posted less than 10 posts, how can you garner any evidence from that? Without any replies from CC, he posts this 40 minuites later. On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote: LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town It's weird to me, immediately after saying there isn't a case to be made, he makes a case. This may be from a mafia buddy trying to save his ass and giving him the best he could come up with about a case for CC. Something that may also be of note is that sonic death monkey essentially just took this point and elaborated on it later. They are the only 2 voting for CC. On November 26 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: The reason I'm asking all these questions and why Mr. Cheesecake's play makes me feel uneasy Part 1 In XXIX: CC was scum and all uptight, just like he said in one of his responses itt. After the game, his scum buddies said he was a funny guy cracking a lot of jokes in the scum QT. It's quite obvious CC wasn't being himself in the actual XXIX game thread, the real CC isn't uptight. In XXX: CC was town and the complete opposite of uptight. It was obvious he was being his real self, ie what he had shown in the scum QT in XXIX. This complete change of meta was why I gave him a 100% town read in the obs QT. BUT this play style got him lynch. Cracking jokes and being a goof got him into a shitty situation which lead him to a weird VT claim and later a mislynch. What would one expect town CC to take away from this? He needs to lay off his goofy style or he risks getting mislynched. What would one expect scum CC to take away from this? He needs to be more of a goof, otherwise the difference in meta will give him away. If you compare this game to his town play in XXX, he's more serious business now. That would lead me to believe either a) he's town and has realized his style in XXIX didn't work and he needs to play a bit more "serious" or b) the reason he's playing closer to his scum meta is because he's scum. Now I agree with what Oats said, CCs initial posts in this thread come off as "forced casual". That is, b) is quite possible: He's scum, has realized he needs to emulate his town play style, but doesn't really succeed. Besides, by asking these questions, I really gave him the chance to give me the a) explanation, but he didn't. He even says it hasn't affected his town play at all, which I find weird considering how he crashed and burned in XXX. He says, however, that it has affected his scum mentality. The reason he knows may be because he's playing scum right now. Part 2 When you play as scum, you really don't want to butt heads with the stronger players. When I was scum in XXVIII I soon came to realize it would be in my best interest to agree with DarthPunk and Z-Boson because they pursued their scum reads aggressively. Now maybe I'm full of myself, but having played 3 games I would like to believe I'm one of the DPs and ZBs of this game, a player you want to get along with if you're scum. That's why this post by CC makes uneasy: It is basically a carbon copy of my previous opinions/questions: Being second on the ball to one of the stronger/more experienced players in this game is scummy. CC also kind of sided with me on the Oats issue, although his read is more on the null side. So yeah, I'm accusing him of cock-riding. FOS Cheesecake Cheesecake is my best scum read right now, but at least he's around and actually contributing. I'm absolutely capable of switching to one of you lurkers out there if I find a decent reason. There's also plenty of time of Cheesecake to convince me he's not scum, so go for it. In conclusion, I feel like although he may just be dumb, he's more likely to be mafia than a random vote, however I don't feel confident enough in it to cast my vote on him yet. | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
On November 26 2012 23:10 yamato77 wrote: It seems like most people that have posted opinions about me that are negative have done so while quoting or referencing the earliest part of my posts, so I guess I'll explain my thought process behind them. Early on, it became apparent to me, as I believe it did to Oats, that literally everyone was either not online at all or not posting intentionally. Most of my posts were in response to other people. If you'll notice, one of them was in response to CC asking me what I thought of him. I said Perhaps I should have explained then, but I meant that I didn't like the way he entered the thread. His little questionnaire was really, really pointless. It seemed to me at the time something that a mafia player might do to appear to be "starting discussion" without putting anything of real value in the thread. Thus, I limited my posting intentionally as to not really do anything except react to other people and try to get them to give information. Aqua was willing; I asked him his thoughts on me and Cheesecake and he gave them, without any questions. It was then that Cheesecake asked me my opinion of him, and I gave the aforementioned answer. Then he asked me what I thought the discussion should be about, and I told him, I thought us (Aqua and I) talking about whether he was acting suspicious was fine. I called out Oats for calling him scum, which I was not ready to do without more solid evidence, and have not done so yet. My next post received a lot of heat. I posted my ill-timed opinion of Mr. Cheesecake. I was being honest. Nothing looked like worthwhile contribution up to that point, to me. It still doesn't. He says he has contributed, but I don't see anything except a poor read on Helos he backed away from, continually attacking me for voicing my opinion of him, and defending himself. He has posted no other reads on anyone else. I keep saying these same things and they are still true. I want to know what people think of me because I don't want to be surprised by more votes on me like I was with SDM's. I didn't like his voting of me because I didn't think people would honestly give a scum read on me based on my posting up to that point. I suppose I was wrong, which is why I've since become much more forthcoming with my thoughts and motivations. As far as reads on other people. Kickstarter's sheer aggression when defending Cheesecake against Oats is astounding. He uses vulgar language more than once and seems wholly preoccupied with Oats' vote being on CC. He doesn't even care if other people think Oats is scum necessarily, so why did he vote for him? The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play. That being said, Oats is definitely not a town read. None of his posting is particularly forthcoming about his actual motivation. His vote on CC, while initially seeming like a pressure vote, hasn't been justified properly. SDM and Aqua are probably town. They have posted the most real content up to this point and their arguments have been clearly motivated. Helo is a less troll version of Oats. None of his play is backed with clear motivation, but it is not inherently scummy either. If Jacob misspells my name one more time I will lynch him. In seriousness, I think he has posted a lot of fluff and rehashed arguments. I am interested in who he reads as blue, though. I have a blue read too. Munk-E is seriously lackluster. I would vote for him over CC if I made a choice right now. I don't like CC's play but I don't like how little Munk has contributed and how long he has lurked. So to rank my reads from scummiest to least it would go: Munk-E Cheesecake Kickstarter (area of ambiguity) Jacob Helo Oats (/end area of ambiguity) SDM Aqua Me He seems to be against me, CC and kickstarter. I understand his reasoning behind being suspicious of me (despite my opinion of being suspicious of lurkers), however he never made an argument against CC, despite promising to. On November 26 2012 15:56 yamato77 wrote: I'll make my case against CC when I get home. My early game posts were obviously bad play. I get that now. Since then I think I'm quickly improving. I keep asking because it does no good to be town and get lynched day one for playing like scum. That being said, I completely understand SDM's vote to me, but I have not changed my opinion on CC. In fact, the only one I see who has made a real case against CC is SDM, and that case was based off of how he played in previous games. I feel basing a scum read on how he played before is really dumb, because he could easily change his style, and in that post he also said that he probably intentionally did that. This just creates a massive WIFOM situation, and thus to me, invalidates the point. This post was also posted in the middle of a minor Kickstarter bandwagon. And while he did make a small case against kickstarter, it was nothing really substantial, and somewhat contradictive. The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play. That being said, Oats is definitely not a town read. (Also as a side note, I saw that play as scummy, as I explained before.) This may be to distance himself from oats, who I feel still isn't in the clear, but his entire case on kickstarter was because he went after oats so aggressively, therefore, going and saying he might be scum is contradictory to his entire case. What I noticed most about his only posts that were more than a few lines were hardcore about defending his image. (above and below) On November 26 2012 06:55 yamato77 wrote: My motivation is to give my read on someone who is playing suspiciously since his first post. Where was I before that? Asleep. A bunch of your argument to me is simply fallacy. Me being hypocritical (whether true or not) has nothing to do with your contributions to the thread. My timing and content is scummy? Of course I want to voice my opinion on someone who is being cast into the spotlight. What am I supposed to do? Ignore it? You didn't even answer my accusations, you just spun around and attacked me. At least SDM's post against mine had some quality. I don't think my posting at the beginning should be taken as alignment indicative. It was prodding, mostly. I'm on the fence about Mr. Cheesecake. His posting is still mostly defending himself, and attacking two players who posted early, me and Helo. That kind of behavior doesn't really indicate alignment, but if he keeps coming after me with posts that don't even address my concerns about him, I'm going to vote for him. Most of what I've posted so far has been to get a reaction, and it has worked. How people answer questions and accusations are definitely tells. On November 26 2012 12:38 yamato77 wrote: SDM's vote on me is based on information from a single post basically, which does not bode well for my opinion of him. Honestly if I am your top scumread because of a bunch of one-liners and a post where I give my negative opinion on someone you read as scum, you are doing something wrong. CC's vote on me looks like scum trying to deflect attention onto a player receiving negative heat. Also, it would eliminate someone he sees as a threat, if he was scum, in that I haven't liked his play since the start of the game. I'm tempted to vote Cheesecake with you, if your vote is actually serious. However, if I get lynched today, I would 100% go after CC and SDM tomorrow because of the way they have parked their votes on me. On November 26 2012 07:26 yamato77 wrote: You want my opinion on Oats? He is probably just a bored townie early on because him giving some silly read is just to spark discussion on something. As he keeps going on, a lot of his posting is in reaction to you and accusations against him, which is entirely logical given that until you guys FoS'd me, that was the only discussion. Nothing there reads either way, in particular. SDM's post was "a little jab"? Dude voted for you. If I'm interested in his reasons, which I was, and I have my own reasons, which I did, I would voice them. Again, am I supposed to just stay silent and let you lynch me for saying nothing? I definitely said I didn't like your topics of discussion in my first few posts. They are fluff, which I don't care for. I didn't react to them because that is adding to the fluff. If that is how people think we should start threads, I disagree. It doesn't provide any information at all. What Oats did was more productive, in my opinion, but hardly alignment indicative. Also, I'm definitely interested to see if SDM still thinks my play is scummy after these two posts. And how about the rest of you lurkers? Do I look scummy to you? Yes Yamato, yes you do Now I shouldn't need to tell you why I'm suspicious of someone who's only real content is making cases for why he's innocent. He also voted for me after both helo and SDM, but i'll let it slide because I was at the top of suscpicion list. Nonetheless, he seems most concerned about defending himself, and explaining his actions, and that certainly seems more scummy than anyone else so far to me, and while I wish I had longer to decide, he certainly looks the worst to me, so therefore ##Vote: yamato77 (p.s. before anyone says it, I didn't just make this post because he was voting for me, I understand that's just pressure.) | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
On November 27 2012 07:54 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Confirmed disappointment. @Yamato Stick around please. I think there's a decent chance you can avoid getting lynched. I for one feel hesistant switching to you. I agree with a lot of what you've been saying, eg wrt Jacob. @Munk Why did you completely drop your case on Oats and vote for Yamato? @Kick Again, what exactly about Munk sheeping the Yamato case made you think he's a bad lynch? Yamato is much more likely to be scum than oats. His incessant defence of himself, while lack of actual cases against who he accuses is very scummy behavior. I didn't drop my case, because I never really had one. That post pointed out how at the time, oats posts were weird for a townie. Although may have been inductive of a potential scum alliance, it is much more likely he was just bad. On average, everyone has a 2/9 chance of being mafia, but by his posts,,i would put him at 1/3 | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
The point is there isn't a case against me, just a band wagon. Honestly, there are so many of you that voted for me with no or minimal justification, especially those who only recently jumped on the bandwagon. | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
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