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More physical gameplay

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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AzraelArchontas
Profile Joined September 2012
United States78 Posts
October 13 2012 12:39 GMT
#1
There have been many posts on changing high-ground advantage, warpgate, FF, fungals, and destroying the deathball.

The suggestions I have seen always seem very extreme and simplistic or they are just oddball way just to fix the problem not caring about other ramification. But I have seen some very unique and great ideas on how to fix these problems.

I for one want to have a game where it feels like there are armies clashing on a real battlefield but the current game provides little benefit for high-ground advantage and forces an easy natural and a close 3rd and with the dramatically large maps a player with sub-par macro finds themselves at a great disadvantage to a protoss with average macro and a proxy pylon. While a protoss player has no real map control and must either all-in/timing attack or turtle to T3.

I will address each issue one at a time

High-ground advantage
+ Show Spoiler +
I have seen many people suggest going back to %miss/reduced damage or -1 range for low-ground but i find this to be rather harsh and uncomfortable.
A zerg player who already has himself at a disadvantage in range would be effected much more then a terran or protoss player and would remain at a disadvantage when defending high ground

I would like to see +1/2 range to high-ground -1/2 range low-ground this may not seem like a significant change but it would mean you could deal more damage then normal from the high-ground and low-ground would still be pulled in closer but since more of your units would now be able to cover more area moving next to cliffs without vision would now be much more risky as well siege tanks and colossus would be more effective on cliffs making positioning more important and making hydralisks a rather scary defender.


Warp gates
+ Show Spoiler +
This is a long one.

I would like to see a fundamental change in warpgate with the addition of a warp web every warpgate, nexus and a new structure the bridge(I will adress this in a moment) generate a field akin to the power field. Warpgates could then only warp in on a space with a warp web and power that is connected to its web. This means if a protoss wants to create a proxy pylon he has to connect the warp web to that powerfield. Now keep in mind a nexus would have a rather large warp web as would the warpgate say 11-15. Now back to the idea of the bridge these would create connections between webs over great distance any two can be attuned and this can be changed as the game progresses these would be high value targets in any protoss base that would cut off warpins in that base or at that proxy pylon meaning more investment for defenders advantage anywhere. As well the warpprism would have a new role because it would act as a bridge so by bringing a prism around you could turn any pylon into a reinforcement hub. These changes make the protoss have to invest more and add incentives to take map control.

With these changes to warpgates I would see gateway be changed so that it is either removed from the game or produces units more quickly then the waprgate but as it stands there is no choice and it needs to be changed.

These changes make it possible to introduce new gateway units with more rolls without throwing the game way out of balance, and opens up new roles for protoss units while eliminating super early 4 gate and allowing for more interesting strategic plays.
PS I would see protoss units get minor changes not exactly buffs with this alteration think +10 shields on zealot and stalkers do bonus to light not armored


Force Field
+ Show Spoiler +

I would see a minor reduction for the cost of FF
Give it reduced range to about 6 and tether it to the sentry at about 9 range

These changes make FF a harder to use aggressive tool so spiting armies will be much less common allowing for overall buffs to protoss gateway armies
It will be over all better defensively so one sentry can hold a flank for a short time

Another (More extreme but my favorite idea)
Give everyone a T2-2.5 massive unit
This dose several things
It makes armies smaller (Massive units cost alot)
It gives zerg a better answer to FF
Leaves FF as an aggrasive option
Makes Tempest more viable (more stuff to shoot)
Gives everyone a big new unit to trample down FF benefiting good army positioning


Fungals
+ Show Spoiler +
While I personally don't mind fungals I see the problem others have with it.

My solution is rather different from any that I have seen.
Make the root an upgrade.
but beyond that I would

I would give marines an upgrade that reduces spell damage against them marginally with the upgrade it would take 3 fungals to kill a marine (would also help against storm but rather insignificantly). I see the root as being the focus of fungal so I would prefer it if it could stay and while fungals are also good against air I believe it is their best counter to mass air.

Make it so that fungal allows for ability use, stalkers can blink out, zealots can charge out it wouldn't prevent damage but it could prevent the root witch in the end is the main problem (this could also help marines) Could make stim remove the root effect at the end of its duration (for cool micro techniques)


Deathball
+ Show Spoiler +
I would add a new unit concept.
Raiders, a raiding unit receives bonuses to killing structures so it targets tech, production, undefended expands. This it a unit that would be designed to work better in small groups not massed it would be lousy unit to unit but against small defense teams and defensive structures it would tend to win out.

This alters the base race dynamic if you have a big slow army you cant move out with everything or your base will be torn apart because raiders trade better in a base race. This forces people to rethink mine and burn bases or leaving their base undefended because raiding units would allow for favorable base trading even against a larger force meaning you can have an army at base defending against a deathball while you wreck their base though it would lose out in larger engagements, in small unit to unit brawls they would shine with higher front on damage or unique abilities.

This means one photon cannon buys you maybe 6 seconds or less while 2 siege tanks might repel the attack.


Protoss Area control
+ Show Spoiler +
The protoss need an area control unit there is no question one of the great contributors to the T3 deathball and all-in attacks is the lack of good map control units. For protoss I do not think they need more damage or something that can super charge their deathball so you have to be careful.

The solution I have come up with is a "shield drone" Probably produced from the robo it would have heavy shielding and no attack it could deploy creating a shielded area where its shields take the damage before the rest of the protoss forces
This would create many unique and interesting strategies for the protoss player such as setting them up to protect buildings, probes that are being harassed, or just outside of a siege line to buffer your zealots as they approach the enemy. I feel a unit like this could not only make air play and map control plausible I think it would make protoss feel all around more Protossy with the added durability but without good placement and consideration this unit would add little to your army


Skyterran
+ Show Spoiler +
I just really want to see this it makes me all giddy but to have this they need a real gunship not some fragile little thing like the banshee something that can go out and fight and trade well in a real fight.


Zerg Swarm Host
+ Show Spoiler +
I love the concept of the unit but it feels to potent and to slow I would love if it spawned faster but made them weaker to create more of a continual tide of units not tower defense waves so along with extended life i want faster spawn rate but make them weaker that way it feels more zergy and you make them feel more pressure because the longer they wait to deal with it the more build up.


Zerg Corruptor
+ Show Spoiler +
They just do nothing for me boring over all I would love it if they had an ability that was either more active or more exciting but I have no clue Please give me some ideas.


Please Post your thoughts on my ideas and what you think!
Feedback is greatly appreciated :D sorry it was so long.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
October 13 2012 16:13 GMT
#2
a player with sub-par macro finds themselves at a great disadvantage to a protoss with average macro and a proxy pylon.

This just feels like you lost a game cause you failed to scout for a proxy pylon. The mechanic is not imba, stop blaming the game for your mistakes.

I have not read all of the thread, but the things I did read are full with zerg bias, please next time you make a thread try to remain non-subjective.Also you say a LOT of different things in one thread, first you start with saying you want to see a real battlefield and talk about map and in the end you talk about the corruptor saying nothing about it only you're asking for some ideas, like you are some game designer? You should really focus on one thing when starting a thread...
MateShade
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia736 Posts
October 13 2012 16:17 GMT
#3
How would missed high ground hurt Zerg so much? Zerg all ins are really hard to hold and now when tanks seige from a low ground position it won't hit your units/buildings as much

I disagree with most of this op sorry
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
October 13 2012 16:22 GMT
#4
I want high-ground advantage too but it seems unlikely at this point
MMA: The true King of Wings
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
October 13 2012 16:28 GMT
#5
I don't understand your warpgate idea at all. And you want raiders from Warcraft 3 in the game now?
AzraelArchontas
Profile Joined September 2012
United States78 Posts
October 13 2012 16:41 GMT
#6
On October 14 2012 01:13 moskonia wrote:
Show nested quote +
a player with sub-par macro finds themselves at a great disadvantage to a protoss with average macro and a proxy pylon.

This just feels like you lost a game cause you failed to scout for a proxy pylon. The mechanic is not imba, stop blaming the game for your mistakes.

I have not read all of the thread, but the things I did read are full with zerg bias, please next time you make a thread try to remain non-subjective.Also you say a LOT of different things in one thread, first you start with saying you want to see a real battlefield and talk about map and in the end you talk about the corruptor saying nothing about it only you're asking for some ideas, like you are some game designer? You should really focus on one thing when starting a thread...


I play protoss I may view things differently then you but if you see it differnetly then please give me your view point I just want stronger gateway units because they currently rely to heavily on FF and often act as a meatshield for T3

Sorry but I want to know peoples opinions on ideas to fix change things it interests me to see a fun dynamic game and I want to know what other people would like to do to make it better I made it broad because for me making the game feel more physical (like every unit is an object or a tool) is a broad subject and I want every unit to be interesting and exciting I believe these changes would make playing protoss more fun because you would have more reason to take map control and not sit in base all game
AzraelArchontas
Profile Joined September 2012
United States78 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 17:04:02
October 13 2012 16:59 GMT
#7
On October 14 2012 01:28 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I don't understand your warpgate idea at all. And you want raiders from Warcraft 3 in the game now?


Warpgate Idea is actually simple I apologize I am not the best writer but I will see if I can explain it better

To warp in units you would require
- power
- warp web

Power from pylons or warp prism obviously
Warp we would be created like power passivly from nexus at 15-20 range and from warpgates at say 15 range

You can warp-in units in any place where both power and warp web overlaps

A warp gate can only warp-in units on its web or a connected web

so if you have two warpgates at 31 range from each other you could not warp-in units from the other warpgate on the same web but if the warp web is connected then you can warp-in with both in either field this allows your opponent to split your capability to warp in so that you cant support a base completly if you dont keep your webs connected

so in order to connect farther away bases you would need to build gateways between them to keep them connected so that you could use all of your warpgates too support

or in the late game you get bridges that allow you to connect any powerfield they are placed in to the warp web
these changes should force protoss to take map control and give ways to counteract warp in by cutting off bases meaning a protoss player would have to protect his bridges to keep his warp web online

the reason I am suggesting these changes is because it would allow for new units in the gateway and mean that they have room and need for area control units

Warp prisims would act as a bridge so you could bring them around instead of proxy pylons and power whole bases or warp-in next to your army

Hope that explained it more clearly

Edit: Almost forgot the raiding units would have a bonus against structure they could still fight and would be good in small skirmishes but in larger fights would lose their effectiveness quickly that way you would use them in double pronged attacks or for counters and it would be able to take out undefended expansions quickly and if their base was left unguarded they would wreck havoc making it unwise to move out with your whole army because a normal army would lose in a base race because you might have a smaller army at home but with defenders advantage you could hold him off while your units cleaned out his base
AveiMil
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway138 Posts
October 13 2012 17:45 GMT
#8
Nice post mate, I think you've raised some good points and suggestions.

Personally I hate game design like Fungal Growth root simply becasue it's just a 'limiting' ability in that it takes away the ability for your opponent to respond. Once a fungal is popped you can no longer make interresting plays but you're simply locked in place unable to micro further. This is not very interresting game design to watch or to play (nevermind if it's balanced or not).

The same is true with FF, although to a lesser extent, especially massed sentry allow for mass spamming of FF's which simply limit your opponents ability to respond. Poor game design.

Further the fact that Terran BIO completely dominates Protoss tier 1 units and forces Protoss to either get splash damnage or die is also rather uninterresting game design. Then the tables are turned and Terran must counter the Protoss splash or die. It's rather one-dimensional and involves a lot of postering for good positiong or falling back and stalling until you have enough units to counter with (vikings or ghosts). It would make for far more interresting gameplay both to watch and play if these units could trade more evenly.
ilve
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 21:48:32
October 13 2012 21:47 GMT
#9
Here's what I think about Fungal:

The root is OK, but the real problem is that it literally kills your micro directly by canceling orders.

If you turned the root into a 90% or even 95%, slow, it would be basically just as easy to chain fungal, but units could be given orders while fungaled, and once they break out, they will actually continue to do what you told them. You could also slightly split units to sneak just a couple of units out of the fungal radius. The Fungaling player would be able to see what direction you are attempting to send the units, and can react accordingly.

This would mean fungals actually force a reaction out of the enemy, instead of basically ending their participation in the fight.
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