EPTHow many games are there where the enemy team is so good that they punish you for buying a Hand of Midas, beating your team, but at the same time your team would have won the game if you hadn't bought one? I bet there have been maybe 5 games in the history of pubs where this happened. Maybe 6 if you're feeling generous.
Hand of Midas is the best pub item
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
How many games are there where the enemy team is so good that they punish you for buying a Hand of Midas, beating your team, but at the same time your team would have won the game if you hadn't bought one? I bet there have been maybe 5 games in the history of pubs where this happened. Maybe 6 if you're feeling generous. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
Pushing teams will stomp any team that has a carry with Hand of Midas. Imagine any hero (besides Furion) with a Hand of Midas versus a hero that spent the same 1900 on actually useful items. Hand of Midas hero dies, and then the 1900 and the unreliable gold from the Hand get wasted. Hand of Midas is a very niche item. If you are looking for a 'pubstomper' item, it is either Mask of Madness or Helm of the Dominator. Mask of Madness turns any auto attack hero into a monster, and Helm of the Dominator lets anyone with a pulse stack ancient camps for later farming. Plus being able to Mind Control a Centaur or Ursa is a huuuuuge boon that will net the player more money because of their AoE attacks. Most of the time, when you see #1 players on professional teams using Hand of Midas, the #3,4,5 players are changing their builds in order to accommodate for the #1 player's weakness until much later into the game, which is something one cannot expect in a pub game. If you are trolling, then simply go Dagon lvl5 every game, as it is core on all heroes. Especially with the massive buff to it in 6.75 | ||
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:13 Chronald wrote: the unreliable gold from the Hand get wasted. I can't check the game to confirm atm, but I'm 95% certain that midas gives reliable gold. | ||
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TheStonerer
Canada278 Posts
Rofl, I never thought about it, but midas on lycan could be funny. You get those levels crazy fast lol. | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:09 Heh_ wrote: Midas provides 30atk spd for 1900 gold, so you take at least 10 minutes to make your midas pay off. 30 attack speed is good and the money return is not the only thing. You also gain levels faster. It's nice to theory-craft about a pub team that will apply constant pressure via unrelenting pushing in order to finish the game before the 25 minute mark but this only really happens when the losing team is simply outclassed. In which case, you could have bought anything with that 1900 and the result would be the same. I don't believe for a MINUTE that a game would end before the 25 minute mark in a pub game with two evenly matched teams just because one guy buys a Hand of Midas. That's nonsense. | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
The build-up to midas is pretty hard No it's not. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
- Building Midas doesn't mean you will afk farm. Midas effectively gives you 100gpm (190gold in 100sec) no matter what you do, whether you jungle or not. So, if you are jungling, you are still jungling, if you are ganking, you're still ganking. People jungle because it's much better that way (midas big creep to get max level), doesn't mean it's the only way. | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:24 canikizu wrote: - There's a perception that it takes midas 10 minutes to pay off. It's not. You build Midas real early while other players still build random items, such as bottle, wraith band, null talisman, bracer, magic wand,.... You usually skip those items and go straight to Midas, you don't build Midas AND then build starting items like other players. So while the midas cost is 1900, if you minus all the trade off, the cost should be only around 1000 gold, so it's about 20 creeps kill, so if you have a good start, building midas should be a good choice for carry. - Building Midas doesn't mean you will afk farm. Midas effectively gives you 100gpm (190gold in 100sec) no matter what you do, whether you jungle or not. So, if you are jungling, you are still jungling, if you are ganking, you're still ganking. People jungle because it's much better that way (midas big creep to get max level), doesn't mean it's the only way. This is wrong. You do build midas and skip other starting items, but that forces you to afk farm. People build bracers, magic wand and bottle to help survive in ganks and teamfights; they are not random items. Having 30 more attack speed is not going to help you, it is going to make you the number 1 target, especially if youre a hard carry early game. If you're a ganking hero with midas, you wont be able to nuke as much as you would otherwise and you'll be squishier, so if they countergank you you will die. Getting a midas is telling the other team that they have 10 mins of 5v4, so if they are competent they will take all 6 of your towers before you have enough farm to be a threat. If your team can defend 4v5 adequately then midas is a good choice and you deserve to win, but if they cant it may be your fault that you lost. I can go dagon 5 bounty hunter in the highest mmr of matchmaking vs tryhard 5stacks/trolling pros and win, so i'm sure going midas and afk farming works very well too. Almost anything works in any matchmaking if your team isnt awful. I went midas-->battfury faceless void yesterday when playing with my bad friends and the random on our team was bitching about how we were gonna lose because we lost long lane and mid, but i carried them because they didnt kill us before i got stacked enough to 1v3 them. I've also had many games where our antimage had freefarm and had a battlefury manta at 20 mins, but the score is already 3-20 and he cant possibly carry us. If he had gone midas, it would have been even worse because he wouldn't have a manta by then. Blindly getting a midas in a pub is assuming that the enemy team wont push you and that your team doesnt need you for 15 mins. If you want to play that way, thats fine, but at some point you'll be punished for it. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
Blindly getting a midas in a pub is assuming that the enemy team wont push you and that your team doesnt need you for 15 mins. If you want to play that way, thats fine, but at some point you'll be punished for it. Which brings back to point of thread You already imply that being punished wotn happen often. Therefor mroe often you wont get punished for midas so as OP says its a decent item. Especially on pubs. It has +ev | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
If you're using midas on normal creep waves then the xp boost is really minimal. It basically adds 2.5 additional creep xp every 100 seconds. You're better off actually making sure that your REAL hard carries have uncontested free farm instead of getting forced off the lane, losing much more than 2.5 creeps per 100 seconds. | ||
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
The only heroes I get it consistently on are Naix and Furion. | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
I think it makes perfect sense to check FV's items about 10 minutes in and then get a Midas if he's not doing well. Clinkz doesn't need a ton of items to strike fear into the hearts of enemy supports and he has plenty of opportunity to use Midas on hard-camp creeps since he's stalking the enemy jungle a lot of the time, anyway. You could make similar arguments about a lot of other #1-3 heroes, too, I think -- as long as they have the potential to make a huge impact late game with a level and item advantage. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
midas for sure isn't the #1 pub item especially not on anyone that is playing the 2 or 3 role. just as DoomBlaze explained pretty well. it's also a VERY lineup dependant item and since the OP fails to even explain it, this thread is useless, especially with THIS title. if you're up against a pushing team like leshrac, shadow shaman, furion, enigma and juggernaut good luck with your midas. you just cost your team the game (well, furion on the other team could have one  ) | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
it's also a VERY lineup dependant item and since the OP fails to even explain it, this thread is useless, especially with THIS title. if you're up against a pushing team like leshrac, shadow shaman, furion, enigma and juggernaut good luck with your midas. you just cost your team the game (well, furion on the other team could have one )So your counterargument is to list an extremely specific pushing line-up which basically never happens in a pub and, even if it did, would be unlikely to be executed in an effective fashion? Sounds legit. Thanks for proving my point. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On October 11 2012 03:38 Yacobs wrote: So your counterargument is to list an extremely specific pushing line-up which basically never happens in a pub and, even if it did, would be unlikely to be executed in an effective fashion? Sounds legit. Thanks for proving my point. i just presented you with one possible pushing lineup. since this is the strategy section and TL isn't a troll forum like JD or Gosugamers, i think your thread doesn't meet the requirements for such an absolute statement in the topic title. there are clearly situations where a midas is horrible for your team, you should at least put some effort into your OP and list them there. otherwise there might be newer players seeing a thread called MIDAS BEST ITEM and just accept it as a fact. edit: just let me ask you: what matchmaking rating are you playing? the way you describe the skill of your teammates makes it sound like your at the rock bottom of the matchmaking. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2012 02:43 Yacobs wrote: Another point is that in pubs the #1 through #3 roles are not clearly defined. Like, I could pick Clinkz and there's a Faceless Void on my team. Conventional wisdom says a Midas is bad here because the FV is the #1 and Clinkz needs to go out there and pwn face in the midgame. But conventional wisdom is sometimes wrong. In a pub game, there's no way I can be sure that Faceless Void is going to actually do his job. For all I know, he's going to build a MoM and then spend the rest of the game pretending to be a dedicated ganker. Or maybe he's a total noob. Or maybe he'll get off to a good start but stop farming after 20 minutes. I think it makes perfect sense to check FV's items about 10 minutes in and then get a Midas if he's not doing well. Clinkz doesn't need a ton of items to strike fear into the hearts of enemy supports and he has plenty of opportunity to use Midas on hard-camp creeps since he's stalking the enemy jungle a lot of the time, anyway. You could make similar arguments about a lot of other #1-3 heroes, too, I think -- as long as they have the potential to make a huge impact late game with a level and item advantage. Wait, your point of "pubs won't play roles 1-3 properly" is an argument for always playing like your 1st position? If anything, your mentality in pubs should always be to play like you're 2nd position (since 2nd position can get fed enough off well-played ganks/fights to carry, but 1st position could farm their way into a game loss), and Midas is an awful item for controlling the midgame tempo. | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
Get Dagon level 5, crush all noobs before the 30m mark. Since your "best item for pubs" relies on the other players being dead, super mega low MMR, or retardedly noobish, just go for the fast win. Dagon5 has a 15s cooldown now, and works on any hero as opposed to midas, which is really only useful on mass farmers and #1 position heroes. Dagon5 is good on all units because the damage is static, and if you have a friend with you, double dagon5-ing supports is the easiest way to win a pub game. I'd love to know what your MMR is, if the people you play against are really that bad, I'd love to collect some free wins myself. | ||
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