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On June 16 2012 06:29 strongandbig wrote:
Nooo KB be a bastard with us! It'll be a Newb 6 reunion!
Okay I'm /in.
For the Newbie VI guys! (and Zephirdd, because ponies)
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On June 16 2012 21:10 FourFace wrote:The Answer is: ridiculous We shoot and lynch in alphabetical order -> Acrofales first
I'm okay with that, there's nine players before me in the alphabet 
Also you are going to be shot relatively soon with your F, lol
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There are Town, Neutral and Anti-Town players in this game.
Information-roles that check for alignment can be either sane or insane, and will not be told which kind they are. Checks will return Anti-Town or Not Anti-Town.
Does this mean that there is no "classic" scum team in the game but only single guys like Serial Killers, like in the last Bastard game? This looks awkwardly like an overly specific formulation to me.
Also, hi everyone :D
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This whole House Chezinu thing sounds really fishy to me. It's advertised as "all upside, no downside" but we have to claim our role and abilities to get in there, and pledge loyalty to players we don't know the alignment of.
In addition, Hiro says nothing about the organisational structure of the House, or if we get any rights/influence if we join, which normally means we don't get jack.
I am not at all convinced.
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On June 17 2012 03:07 Nisani201 wrote:
So who are we lynching today?
It's night.
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I don't fully trust House Chezinu's intentions yet, but I would like to claim that I am not one of its enemies, and would be interested in an alliance, similar to Nisani201.
If this arrangement can be made, maybe we can talk about further deals in the future.
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On June 17 2012 03:47 talismania wrote:Sorry for trying to break the setup! PS I will continue making that exact same post in every game I play until TL outright bans it :-) (I held off in bangbang because I was scum there). Now to play normally: KharadBanarShow nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:08 KharadBanar wrote:
This whole House Chezinu thing sounds really fishy to me. It's advertised as "all upside, no downside" but we have to claim our role and abilities to get in there, and pledge loyalty to players we don't know the alignment of.
In addition, Hiro says nothing about the organisational structure of the House, or if we get any rights/influence if we join, which normally means we don't get jack.
I am not at all convinced. Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:34 KharadBanar wrote:
I don't fully trust House Chezinu's intentions yet, but I would like to claim that I am not one of its enemies, and would be interested in an alliance, similar to Nisani201.
If this arrangement can be made, maybe we can talk about further deals in the future. So basically what happened here was that you reacted to what HiroPro posted in the thread by yourself, then went to your QT and talked it over with someone else and came back with an alliance offer, no?
No it's not.
What happened is that HiroPro made two other posts further explaining the concept of House Chezinu, and Nisani201 successfully allied with them without having to full-roleclaim.
Realising that this was a possibility (Nisani's offer was accepted after all) I briefly checked the advantages and disadvantages of such an alliance and came to the conclusion that an alliance without giving away sensitive data could be in my best interests.
Think of it as House Chezinu being Facebook: You don't want to give Mr. Zuckerberg all you personal information, but if you play against them you can expect to be negatively surprised. (Further parallels of joining House Chezinu, 5th Party and joining Facebook include the agreement to some huge pile of legalese you can't quite understand)
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On June 17 2012 03:58 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:55 HiroPro wrote:On June 17 2012 03:52 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2012 03:29 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:18 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2012 02:41 HiroPro wrote:House Chezinu, 5th Party Recruitment Welcome everyone. This is the Director of Recruitment at House Chezinu speaking. Due to recent personnel shortages, we are now conducting a recruitment drive. Anyone who is a player in this game may join (excepting any and all self-identified House Chezinu enemies). To complete your application, you must go through three simple steps. 1. Claim your role name
2. Claim any and all powers, abilities, restrictions, or requirements that you possess
3. Claim your win condition
All members of House Chezinu must also swear loyalty to all board members, whose names (excepting for mine) will be revealed at a later time. Remember, the benefits are numerous, the downsides non-existent. Join House Chezinu, 5th Party and reap the rewards immediately. All applications must be submitted by Sunday, Jun 17 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). What exactly are the benefits of House Chezinu? House Chezinu supports its own at all times, especially at times of lynching. In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members). If all it does is support members in lynches is there really any difference between joining House Chezinu and forming an alliance?
In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members).Additionally, alliance support is not absolute. It is merely a recognizance of no open hostilities between House Chezinu, 5th Party and said allied party. Who are the board members other than yourself? What are the knowledge archives? If House Chezinu wants members it should release all pertinent information.
If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.
By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason.
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On June 17 2012 04:17 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 04:13 HiroPro wrote:On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 03:58 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 17 2012 03:55 HiroPro wrote:On June 17 2012 03:52 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2012 03:29 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:18 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2012 02:41 HiroPro wrote:House Chezinu, 5th Party Recruitment Welcome everyone. This is the Director of Recruitment at House Chezinu speaking. Due to recent personnel shortages, we are now conducting a recruitment drive. Anyone who is a player in this game may join (excepting any and all self-identified House Chezinu enemies). To complete your application, you must go through three simple steps. 1. Claim your role name
2. Claim any and all powers, abilities, restrictions, or requirements that you possess
3. Claim your win condition
All members of House Chezinu must also swear loyalty to all board members, whose names (excepting for mine) will be revealed at a later time. Remember, the benefits are numerous, the downsides non-existent. Join House Chezinu, 5th Party and reap the rewards immediately. All applications must be submitted by Sunday, Jun 17 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). What exactly are the benefits of House Chezinu? House Chezinu supports its own at all times, especially at times of lynching. In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members). If all it does is support members in lynches is there really any difference between joining House Chezinu and forming an alliance?
In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members).Additionally, alliance support is not absolute. It is merely a recognizance of no open hostilities between House Chezinu, 5th Party and said allied party. Who are the board members other than yourself? What are the knowledge archives? If House Chezinu wants members it should release all pertinent information. If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. Allied Party KharadBanar, are you indicating that you believe MajuGarzett to be a member of the mafia? Also, the board members of House Chezinu, 5th Party are not scum. I think he means a player of mafia as a game, not as of the scum team.
I can confirm that I meant this as Mafia as in "the game", not "the faction". I usually call the faction "scum" or "mafia" with a lowercase "m", not "Mafia". (Yes, I'm enough of a grammar nazi that you can count on my capitalisation to convey meaning.)
As for HiroPro, I don't believe you yourself are mafia (←notice the difference?), I am actually leaning neutral on you (because neutral players officially exist in this game) but I am not convinced that you are telling the truth about your board members; it could well be that the Board of House Chezinu, 5th Party is comprised of one player of each faction or something like that.
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As I understood it, they are not claiming their role in thread; rather they PM one of the hosts that they would like to join The House of Chezinu, 5th party (hereafter known as The HOUSE), and the hosts provide The HOUSE with the necessary information about the player.
At least that's what I understood from it.
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Because it is not immediately apparent anymore with the double ninja posting, my last post is addressed at Nisani201's question to HiroPro.
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On June 17 2012 04:35 Drazerk wrote:
You post slow
This thread is going too fast. >_>
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On June 17 2012 04:43 talismania wrote:
HiroPro
What is your win condition?
Would me or anyone else joining your House of Chezinu help that win condition?
If so, how?
If not, then why are you asking people to join?
My win condition is to win when all anti-town forces are eliminated. Does me joining your House help that? Why or why not?
I don't think we can get much information out of The HOUSE anyway, for the aforementioned reasons (their only advantage is information, so they're not going to give it to us for free).
This in turn leads me to the opinion that Drazerk is very much right in ignoring The HOUSE for now. I will do so from now on (I'll not play against HiroPro or his faction since we are allies, but I'm not going to mention them too much in my posting) and I believe it is wise for you to do the same.
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On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote:Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote:
If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.
By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB?
Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself:
I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates.
This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out.
I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do.
On June 17 2012 04:50 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 04:48 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 04:43 talismania wrote:
HiroPro
What is your win condition?
Would me or anyone else joining your House of Chezinu help that win condition?
If so, how?
If not, then why are you asking people to join?
My win condition is to win when all anti-town forces are eliminated. Does me joining your House help that? Why or why not? I don't think we can get much information out of The HOUSE anyway, for the aforementioned reasons (their only advantage is information, so they're not going to give it to us for free). This in turn leads me to the opinion that Drazerk is very much right in ignoring The HOUSE for now. I will do so from now on (I'll not play against HiroPro or his faction since we are allies, but I'm not going to mention them too much in my posting) and I believe it is wise for you to do the same. What is your win condition, and how does being allied with HiroPro help you? Is your win condition compatible with mine? Mine is to eliminate all anti-town players.
I win by eliminating anti-town players like you, so yeah I think we are compatible 
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
On June 17 2012 05:02 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:00 Nisani201 wrote:On June 17 2012 04:47 talismania wrote:
KharadBanar and Nisani206
Why did you ally with HiroPro? Because I prefer to be scum, not town. FTFY Town don't want friends you idiot
This is not necessarily true. Town want friends whom they know to be town, which The HOUSE could offer, but there is the added culprit of scum players using that to their advantage which is why I don't outright join The HOUSE. My reason for allying with them is described above
This should also answer the questions posed by others since I begun writing this post, too; if you deem other parts of my play questionable, please pose a question.
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On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
[...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment?
Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE.
I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members.
When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted.
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On June 17 2012 05:28 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote:On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
[...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment? Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE. I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members. When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted. As a mere ally of THE HOUSE do you even get to know who the house members are? I was under the impression that THE HOUSE just wouldn't try to kill you.
I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it.
If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs.
Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them.
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On June 17 2012 05:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:31 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:28 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote:On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
[...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment? Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE. I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members. When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted. As a mere ally of THE HOUSE do you even get to know who the house members are? I was under the impression that THE HOUSE just wouldn't try to kill you. I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it. If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs. Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them. So in actual fact, what you're doing is accepting HiroPro making anybody he likes "untouchable" for you, in return for limited immunity. Lol, are you a serial killer or wtf?! Drazerk: I oppose lynching Nisani. I want to lynch KB.
I still have a will on my own, thank you very much. If someone is acting really scummy but HiroPro is protecting him to the point where it seems unreasonable, I am not going to be convinced by him that I should drop my case. (Sorry HiroPro)
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On June 17 2012 06:14 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:31 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:28 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote:On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
[...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment? Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE. I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members. When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted. As a mere ally of THE HOUSE do you even get to know who the house members are? I was under the impression that THE HOUSE just wouldn't try to kill you. I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it. If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs. Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them. This makes no sense AT ALL. Scenario: "I'm KharadBanar. I think X is scum" "I'm HiroPro. Lol don't attack X Kharad! We're allies, and X is in the House of Chezinu!" All posted in the thread?? tl;dr - HiroPro isn't going to reveal who's in his house (if anyone) no matter whether you're allied with them.
On June 17 2012 06:14 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:53 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:41 Acrofales wrote:On June 17 2012 05:31 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:28 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote:On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]
By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)
[...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment? Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE. I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members. When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted. As a mere ally of THE HOUSE do you even get to know who the house members are? I was under the impression that THE HOUSE just wouldn't try to kill you. I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it. If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs. Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them. So in actual fact, what you're doing is accepting HiroPro making anybody he likes "untouchable" for you, in return for limited immunity. Lol, are you a serial killer or wtf?! Drazerk: I oppose lynching Nisani. I want to lynch KB. I still have a will on my own, thank you very much. If someone is acting really scummy but HiroPro is protecting him to the point where it seems unreasonable, I am not going to be convinced by him that I should drop my case. (Sorry HiroPro) What, why would you apologise to HiroPro for that? If you strongly believe that a person is anti-town, and your wincon is to remove said anti-town, HiroPro and his "House" should not even factor into your decision. If HiroPro disagrees with that, this alliance of yours is clearly detrimental to your wincon. The fact that you feel you had to apologise for saying you'd want someone "really scummy" dead, worries me.
Reading this I feel really stupid >_>
The alliance will probably have no real effect on actual gameplay, so I think it's best not to worry about it too much at this moment. It's important to stress though that by going into an "alliance" with The HOUSE (which is a really weak thing anyway), I'm not agreeing to simply sheep their agenda.
Now I'm going to take a break from this thread, because my brain hurts.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TycID.jpg)
