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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 07 2012 04:44 chaoser wrote: i'mma shoot RoL if I can Thought we were bros!!! | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Any suggestions? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Any plan that involves millers and role checking is quite stupid. There are so many things that can interfere with proper results that it hinges on nothing. Anyone advocating some sort of role centric plan needs to shut up. It won't work, we don't even know if all the roles in the OP are the only roles in the game, but even from what we can tell it is still a crap shoot and it could only get worse. I agree with what Chaoser said. If we think someone is scummy, we make them shoot who they think are scummy. If they can't shoot and can't explain themselves then we just kill them. Problem solved. On the off chance the DT figures out his sanity and claims to have found someone a Miller claim CANNOT absolve them. A DT will only get a red check back on non GF roles if his sanity is known. The non GF roles cannot shoot, so they would need to shoot to prove they are a Miller. That claim can literally never work. There is only one actual benefit of a Miller claiming in this set up. Hypothetically its day 5, we need to kill a mafia and the DT claims knowing his sanity and has a red check on someone. Assuming that person has NEVER shot during the day then he can now shoot to prove that he is not scum but a Miller. There is no way scum can emulate that play to the point where it would help a Miller to claim earlier on. The only thing that this helps is preventing a cop who knows there alignment to claiming publicly in that one very niche scenario. In that scenario the N1 Miller claim would save the cop from going public. That is the only benefit. So does that single benefit justify having someone claim Miller? I can't see why someone would ever get shit for claiming Miller. The only mafia benefit to claiming Miller would be to avoid a RC but the only one who can do that is the GF who would get outed by a DT check and would prefer to get DT checked anyway. The same thing applies to SK's. Anyone faking Miller would eventually just get outed by some means and its not worth it. So I guess there is only that one benefit, but there is no real drawback besides people wasting time speculating on why someone claimed Miller. But hey, since I outlined all the reasons above and there are no true drawbacks, might as well claim that I'm a Miller. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:26 Toadesstern wrote: I thought so as well until I realized there can be framers in this game  The op has no framers in it but they're possible because it's apparently a closed-setup with example roles. Especially if we follow the miller plan from gonzaw that is bound to fail because if we assign the guy who shoots based on being a miller and the fact that it should return red (as you pointet out no mafia will return red AND are able to shoot) we're painting a big, red cross above the millers head for a framer. I'm sure it's possible but stacking framers into a game with insane DT's is a bit fucked. I doubt they are there but at the same token we shouldn't hinge on blues to win it for us just in case. Mentioning framers and other more wacky roles just gives the mafia room to yell at us about. I'd refer to play within behavioral analysis instead of hinging on blues. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:55 FreelanceSatan wrote: yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho? It's not really a big deal. Half the reason I considered not claiming at all was just because I didn't think it was worth considering whether or not I was a Miller. I am sure if I continue being alive they will try to make me suspciious because of that. Or killing me, whatever. There is a chance that a medic could be on me because I claimed and they would be wasting their first hit. There is a number of things they have to take into account. Ultimately, I'm not really worried and whether I die or not its not that big of a deal. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote: about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? :p Let's start the wifom machine lol. And here comes that suspicion thing I was talking about. It's the only downside I perceived of claiming regardless of timing. Idiots will always over-analyze shit for no reason. However that wasn't something I could articulate without just saying people are dumb and we can't work around them being suspicious of a miller claim regardless of how illogical it is for any non-town person to do it. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote: about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? :p Let's start the wifom machine lol. I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On June 12 2012 13:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Had your gun taken away? Is that real? Did you just say that? :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Yeah, interesting though. So the mafia have additional powers to take away a gun. Although this is interesting. If the mafia have the power to take away my gun why would they do that while trying to kill me? Someone tried to kill me and someone tried to take my gun. I can see why the SK would have that power, he is bulletproof at night but needs a way to survive day hits as well so that is definitely a possibility. I find it interesting that the SK would use that power on me since he needs as many people to die as fast as possible and taking my gun would just make me look a bit guilty. The only way that would make sense is if my first accusation was right and toad was the SK. That is essentially the purpose of that power. On the same note that would make the SK really powerful, but the set up makes him really weak to day shooting. I would say that would make up for the SK's shortcomings in the current set up so it is probably the most likely. On the otherhand the mafia has 4 members and I'm sure that could be a power that is functionally a day RB. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
##kill(##Kill): marvellosity | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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For the record, I thought the way I originally did it was stupid. But that is what is in the OP. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:07 marvellosity wrote: fuck ninjad. RoL, shoot gonzaw please It doesn't matter who I shoot, it won't do anything. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:08 supersoft wrote: dude that's the wrong guy... It doesn't matter, it won't do anything. I also said I'd shoot him yesterday and If I remember correctly' thats who I initially tried to shoot. I just stuck with it. you guys need to calm the fuck down. I posted maybe 15 hours ago because I had to sleep and work 10-4 | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:15 payl wrote: [/blue][/b]Oops someone lied shoot him. I vote RoL for day 1 death, btw. my gun was taken from me temporarily. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 14 2012 11:17 MrZentor wrote: RoL talked about all the downsides of claiming millers, then claimed to be a miller. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote: gonzaw, you've just made me read all the setup speculation on Millers. Damn thee. There is so much I do not like about the claim. Green text: Outlines in some depth how little benefit there is to Miller claiming in this setup. He calls the benefit a 'very niche' scenario. Red text: Having outlined why it's barely beneficial if at all to claim Miller, he leaps into categorically saying no-one should give miller claims any shit. Claims at the end he 'outlined all the reasons'. All the reasons? He clarified himself it would only help in a 'very niche scenario'. What gives? He then says mafia have no reason to fakeclaim miller. He's actively pushing this to discredit the notion. Blue text: Also see post below, but this looks like an attempt to halt any discussion of his miller claim. Because we're so busy on Night 0, right? Again with the blue text, pushing the idea that talking about his claim is a bad thing. To the bold and underlined: twice he says his claim is not a big deal. More language in the middle with 'or killing me, whatever'. Basically totally flippant and acting unconcerned about it. Look at the change in tone! From his original claim with his "hey, I guess I'll claim miller" casual attitude and subsequent post with the 'whatevers' and 'it's not a big deal' he fucking jumps down Toad's throat. Now he's again pushing the idea that even talking about his claim is a bad thing. He admits here that he forsaw people being suspicious of the claim. Yet in his original post, the only 'benefit' he saw was with a very niche day 5 cop scenario. RoL said elsewhere in his filter that we should be working off behavioural analysis. I agree. I'm not questioning the claim because he claimed Miller, I'm questioning how he's gone about it. Scum. He claimed to have his gun taken away, which is really suspicious as it sets him up to look exactly like a mafia goon (appears red and can't shoot), and it seems improbable that either mafia or sk would have this power. These things coupled with the fact that he hasn't been around for the entire night makes me doubt his claim. Would anybody else care to comment? The only downside I mentioned is if I claimed and instead of the town believing me or at least not questioning me that much until it was necessary that the entire town actually just called me scum for claiming or some other shenanigans. Even before I had my gun taken the entire discussion turned to me being a Miller and whether or not I was scum. As I said, the only downside is if you all chose to focus on me + the claim. Claiming puts pressure on me to play a really protown game which I intend to do when the day post comes. This downside depends on the towns attitude and whether or not you guys are stupid even to solely focus on me and my claim or actually do important shit. The actual benefits were in a few limited scenarios it would save a DT claiming and a wasted day shot which didn't depend on town stupidity but on how the game played out. I basically weighed the possible game outcome of the DT ending up checking me vs the odds of you all being dumb. Since town stupidity is something we can analyze and don't have to attribute to luck we can punish people for that, however if it comes down to the DT scenario or one like it it is completely luck based which would benefit the mafia. You guys are proving that I wagered wrong by focusing on this so much. The only time it deserved attention was when I claimed I didn't have a gun. | ||
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