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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
Anyway, so far what I've got is that Cattivik seems the most likely candidate for scum (overuses collectives such as 'us' and 'we') and doesn't provide any evidence for initially supporting Scib and then saying he wants to LD1 anyway. However, I'm also cautious of Milton. Sciberbia seems like the obvious guy who is going against the grain here and I feel that was jumped on at the first available opportunity. Promoting Townies to be active for more information helps everyone, not just the Townies but his post was tendered towards the Townies which I feel may be a guise. Needz moar infos | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On May 31 2012 16:33 heist wrote: I agree with needing more information. And by no means should you blindly follow any accusations. I take it you agree with me on Cattivik but can you clarify your first point about the overuse of the "collective". How exactly is this a scumtell? I'd like some further responses, especially, especially from you, Cattivik. Overall, it's looking as if we aren't going to be plagued by inactivity and lurking although I would prod Superouman and Ange77 to post more and be active. @Sciberbia thanks for the discussion generator, but I'm sure it's apparent that the town majority heavily favors a Day 1 lynch and we should proceed to do so. So enough about policy, I'm curious as to your your thoughts on the other players and suspicions. Just the use of 'we' and 'us' to refer to the townsfolk. Similar to Hollywood'ing in poker, just trying to sell it a bit too much. It caught my eye is all. | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On May 31 2012 20:20 Cattivik wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'll answer to some of the accusations towards me here, also revealing more important information: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 11:47 O.Golden_ne wrote: @Cattivik Your posting reads so early, with not alot of actual content to date. Early days yet, though remember i'm watching you. Miltonkram what a great post before work. I agree with all points you've said and want anyone who want's to discuss policy to just read that post. I slightly agree with your position on sciberbia as he is promoting policy discussion about no-lynch, however i agree that mafia first post is improbable. My main suspicion lies with Cattivik, though once sciberbia posts some responses to your accusation i will consider a vote on him. ##FOS: Cattivik Miltonkram has finally understood the point sciberbia was trying to make, you also agree on my point about him most likely not being mafia due to first post. His post has generated most discussion so far. Probably more than by just voting for someone based on a gut feeling. From the start of the game the majority, including me, was for D1 lynching, making sciberbias post obsolete cause we won't be discussing policy anyway.It is clear that someone will hang at the end of the day. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: Let's have a look at Cattivik. Look at this beginning statement. He agrees with Sciberbia's plan, but decides to support the complete opposite? CONTRADICTION. To me, this looks like he's going with the popular opinion (afraid to rock the boat) while simultaneously seeming to offer him support and defense. Either you agree or you don't. I never agreed to a plan: On May 31 2012 07:48 Cattivik wrote: Giovanni Falcone reporting in. Pro lynch, any information better than no information. Also, Sciberbia, the blue font is reserved for the mods. Let's see who's active, i also remember a guy announcing exams, anyone silent will hang from the towns' tree. On May 31 2012 07:58 Cattivik wrote: Sounds like he thought that a medic setup could save a townie from being lynched, but what for? As far as i know the alignment isn't revealed unless the target dies, in this case it won't. But I was able to understand his logic concerning the difference between D1L/NL once he explained it. Also, there is one more tell for him being actually town: It's unlikely that such a mistake would happen to three mafia at the same time, who without doubt know each others' posts before they are out. In fact, posting in blue font confirms him as townie. Aswell as the fact that it would require a pretty solid plan for mafia to start with the first post, I don't see anything unfolding here though Obviously I took him into defense cause I don't want the most active posters to die first cause they have the balls to expose their neck to easy triggers who do all the work for the mafia by doing so. First and foremost, the lurkers and cautious ones have to get votes, else they can just keep lurking. On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: He seems to really trust Sciberbia based solely on his activity and the notion that "first post can't be mafia" (I mentioned this before). His further reasoning: "Sciberbia is not promoting a NL, he's questioning a day 1 lynch". No. Sciberbia is definitely promoting a NL. It's been obvious since his reasoning. He attempts to remove heat from Sciberbia, over promoting his townie-ness and attacking others who place suspicion on him. He tries to deflect all opposition from Sciberbia, which at this point, is frankly strange. (look at his analysis on Solstice and Miltonkram). He goes out of his way to defend him and his plan while being careful not stick his neck out by staying with the town majority. Based on the response to the previous quotes, I'm not just 'with' the majority, I've been part of it from the start of this game (for a D1 lynch before even knowing what sciberbias reasoning was). And it's in the best interest of the town to keep productive townies alive, sciberbia among them. I also don't like all this fingerpointing between active townies, if there are mafia still lurking, they can lean back. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 13:18 Eishi_Ki wrote: Sorry for delaying, I was washing the blood off me knife. Skinning a pig can be tiring work.... Anyway, so far what I've got is that Cattivik seems the most likely candidate for scum (overuses collectives such as 'us' and 'we') and doesn't provide any evidence for initially supporting Scib and then saying he wants to LD1 anyway. However, I'm also cautious of Milton. Sciberbia seems like the obvious guy who is going against the grain here and I feel that was jumped on at the first available opportunity. Promoting Townies to be active for more information helps everyone, not just the Townies but his post was tendered towards the Townies which I feel may be a guise. Needz moar infos You confused something, first I said i want to LD1, then i defended sciberbia. I've never even considered a NL in this game, but I don't claim that it doesn't make sense in any situation. In summary, the controversy about the policy talk seems to be dead to me. There is gonna be a D1 lynch. This is also a tl;dr version of the post for people who trust me anyway. Here, my updated statements regarding some of the players posting so far: Heist: I'll wait to see how he reacts to his arguments' dismissal now that sciberbia should be a confirmed townie. If I was scum, I'd know about his status and wouldn't have taken him into defense against a majority. However, given that i suspect others more for their passivity, I dont think that Heist is scum. Ange777: Stop lurking. I'll vote for you. Superouman: Stop making fun of a tragedy and sleeping all day, but more especially, stop lurking. I'll vote for you too when the time is ripe. Eishi_Ki: Pretty poor arguments to accuse me, but blends in well with the opinions of the former posts.You also say you have a reason to keep lurking. A win/win situation for mafia. You also suspect those who are most active here. Then there's this: On May 31 2012 14:04 Eishi_Ki wrote: Yeah just a note on my activity times, I live in Korea so 7am KST actually 7am (whodathunk) and I gotta work, so activity time before the deadline will be minimal I'm afraid (or maybe it's a good thing, hmm) Dude, what. How is it a good thing? You are basically saying that you won't contribute much to the scumhunt while the scumjuice flows out of your every pore. I don't even want to go on with other players cause I think you should start telling us more about your thought processes: ##VOTE :Eishi_Ki It was an ironic joke. Apologies if you didn't understand. It was said earlier that the scum and lurkers try to sway arguments towards the later hours. Unfortunately for me, the later hours are before I wake up and as such, my contributions at that time are going to be limited. An alibi in the form of my contract of employment can prove I live and work in Korea at the moment. To counter this, I'll try and check this and post as often as I can whilst I am awake. An inconvenient set of circumstances or a likely story, I'll let you decide. What would you like to know about my thought processes? I can't tell you how my brains works, only that I analyse details at face value and then have a lot of time to think about them further. I noted initially that you were trying to sell that you were a Townie without saying so outright. That said, I'm pretty sure Miltonkram is one of us aswell, I also noted you agreed with Sciberbia (or at least acknowledged his line of thought) on the issue of policy but still did not sway your recommendation. Your reasoning makes sense, sciberbia, it also allows to choose a lynch with more information available, however returning less information in the beginning. I would still go for the lynch. At least to get rid of pesky lurkers and inactives, in case there's noone stinking of scum already. Just observations | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 21:57 Cattivik wrote: Regarding Superouman: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 21:05 Superouman wrote: I am totally not making fun of anything here, i'm just ready to kick some mafia butt. And considering your lynch logic, what if all the mafia already talked, you would just kill townies and make mafia's life easier. I wasn't all that serious about the marked part, just a bit of roleplay  Back to the topic: By my lynch logic I want to hear something useful from the lurkers. Since you don't know what to say, you're still a lurker. No target set, no analysis. If you look at the posts, who would you want to lynch? If all the mafia already talked, we might lose townies who don't know what to say or assert. An acceptable loss in light of the information retrieved. No offense. On May 31 2012 21:13 Eishi_Ki wrote: What would you like to know about my thought processes? I can't tell you how my brains works, only that I analyse details at face value and then have a lot of time to think about them further. I noted initially that you were trying to sell that you were a Townie without saying so outright. Oh, you can tell me what you thought. This argument of yours makes you appear even more scummy. Why? It's selective! Did you read Heists' post?It's even more recent than mine, he uses the collective form more times than me, yet you say i'm suspicious. Either you were sloppy, or you are scum trying to let me look suspicious, in latter case: Does that mean I was on the right track?Or that Heist is scum aswell? Before going on, I'll quote Heist: On May 31 2012 09:34 heist wrote: Sciberbia, you wanted our opinion on the matter of a NL Day 1.... I strongly,strongly disagree with a NL. The issue isn't with the unknown setup. It doesn't matter. No matter what the setup is, we should always go through with a Day 1 lynch. The flaw with your logic is that the lynches are not pure probability. We are not condemning some poor soul to death from a name in a hat. It is based on people's reactions to pressure, contradictions, activity level, and other information generated by discussion. When someone dies, most of us should be feeling comfortable with it. If anything, the purpose of a Day 1 lynch is not some slim chance of lynching mafia, but for information. Information we can use to lead the course of Day 2 and onward. In your scenario, every lynch is an isolated incident. The lynches of each day are not independent. The outcome of a Day 1 lynch WILL affect the outcome of the Day 2 lynch, and only for the better because of all us will have a clearer picture of the situation. --- In other news: I wanted to suggest a few things to town that you may or may not find useful: 1. DO NOT claim you are a vanilla townie. We won't believe you AND you should be glad to die in place of a blue. We don't want to limit the pool of possible blues. 2. Attention DT (if we have one) - Let's say you get a lucky check on scum. Do not reveal yourself day 2. Do not come screaming into the thread with your pants still at your feet. You are not guaranteed a medic. Breadcrumb your result. Look at their behavior and create an accusation. Anything is better than a reveal. 3. This is a newbie game. Most people don't know what to do as a blue role. Pretend you don't have it. Seriously, most people with a blue role are afraid to stick their head out and, as a result, are often mistaken for scum. We don't want to hang you so please don't give us a reason. Be active. 4. Try not to bandwagon with a simple "I agree with ___". We want to limit our lynch candidates. The voting patterns of Day 1 may end up leading us to an excellent mafia candidate day 3 or later. If we have people voting all over the place, the usefulness of the day 1 lynch becomes diluted. That's not say don't be aggressive. Don't be afraid to poke the bear right in the eye if you feel good about an accusation. --- @Cattivik "Sciberbia is the most active poster so far, also he's not promoting a NL, he's questioning day1 lynch. Whatever, I'm pretty sure he's clean, no mafia would go for the first post in a newbie game." That defense is borderline scummy. There is nothing that mafia won't do. Do not assume he's clean because he's the first post in a newbie game. Obviously this is only your first impression, but your reasoning is a little off here. Yes, i never supported a NL, but aknocwledged sciberbias point I suggest that you keep the discussion to yourself, you talk a lot about me, not about the accusations towards you. If you admit you are scum now, you may choose the way you get lynched, Eishi_Ki, like being drowned in single malt whisky to have a last taste of your country. I'll keep the vote locked in. What exactly are you accusing me of which I should be rebutting? Posting my thoughts which, you may note, were not solely about you? Or of not being available at 4-7am? I'm not sure exactly what I was voted for. You called me out on my thoughts and I justified them. You are inflating what I said into a full blown accusation on my part which I don't really think is necessary. Maybe I am Mafia. Maybe I'm not. Opinion has no bearing on the truth and I can honestly say; I'm not one of the ones you are looking for. All there is to say about this really. Anyway, onto others. Suki has so far been very vague so far and has not committed to any camp. He also hasn't posted in a while so I'd like to hear his stances on the last page or so of updates. Finally, Xatalos. You have been judging many people's posts so far and accusing them of not being committed enough, threatening them if they don't improve their posts or praising them for doing a good job, all the while not actually contributing very much yourself. Any reason ser? What are your thoughts on people outside of the quality of their posts? And Superouman, I liked the RP for what it's worth, but let's try and keep the spam to a minimum | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
Eishi_Ki seems bandwagon-y in his first post. By the time he posts, Cattivik already has heist and golden posting their suspicions on him. He then calls out Milton for targetting sciberbia for... going against the grain? It doesn't seem to contribute anything. The rest of his posts are defending himself, and then he calls out me, Xatalos and Super. His insight on Xatalos is interesting... but I feel like Xatalos has been contributing his thoughts quite a bit in the thread and calling out people for scummy behaviour. In any case, I don't think Eishi is scum, but he hasn't contributed that much to the thread as of yet. I'm not trying to increase the level of suspicion but I will say that just because he has been calling people out as having scummy behaviour, does not mean he himself is scum-free. Regarding Unforgiven; commenting on this is a lose-lose-lose for me. People have noted my behaviour as being bandwagony so if I vote for him, I have that. If I say he is innocent, that is also highly suspicious and if I don't comment, I'm avoiding the biggest issue of the day. Know that I do have my opinions on the matter, if anyone cares to broach the subject, they can PM me. Good time to ask, are we allowed to PM? If not, I'll post my opinions here tomorrow. @Superouman, there are plenty of posts by now to gather how to type, you just need to post with some more substance Haven't heard from sciberbia in a while, what's the happy hap with you? It seems after your flurry of activity, you went very silent... And finally my suspicions regarding Suki have been somewhat alleviated, but not entirely. If you want me to comment on someone, ask me to. I'm away to bed now, I'll check back in the morning for you guys. and for the record, I'd like to die via freefall from 40000ft. Drowning in whisky just isn't rock and roll enough | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On June 01 2012 01:40 s0Lstice wrote: Eishi_Ki Nobody is going to accuse you of bandwagoning if you are directly asked your opinion on someone. That said, what is your opinion on Unforgiven? I think he made a couple of posts promoting a town leader (which imo is a bad idea), I see no lack of conversation, therefore, no need to 'get the ball rolling' as you put it. The ball is already in motion. He then went away for a while, came back and saw a lot of people becoming suspicious of him and he panicked, dropped the idea of town leader very quickly but continued to remind everyone not to judge on past games to which no one so far has mentioned or even brought up in conversation. Probable mafia. And here we go for my REVENGE post (huehue) After dropping the subject of Vivax because there wasn't a lot to talk about, I now feel I have more substantial points. First off + Show Spoiler + Eishi_Ki: Pretty poor arguments to accuse me, but blends in well with the opinions of the former posts.You also say you have a reason to keep lurking. A win/win situation for mafia. You also suspect those who are most active here. Then there's this: On May 31 2012 14:04 Eishi_Ki wrote: Yeah just a note on my activity times, I live in Korea so 7am KST actually 7am (whodathunk) and I gotta work, so activity time before the deadline will be minimal I'm afraid (or maybe it's a good thing, hmm) Dude, what. How is it a good thing? You are basically saying that you won't contribute much to the scumhunt while the scumjuice flows out of your every pore. I don't even want to go on with other players cause I think you should start telling us more about your thought processes: ##VOTE :Eishi_Ki Straight up calls me out for no concise reason + Show Spoiler + Yes, i never supported a NL, but aknocwledged sciberbias point I suggest that you keep the discussion to yourself, you talk a lot about me, not about the accusations towards you. If you admit you are scum now, you may choose the way you get lynched, Eishi_Ki, like being drowned in single malt whisky to have a last taste of your country. I'll keep the vote locked in. Continues on the warpath with no sway in opinion whatsoever. Next post, after my rebuttal, he continues to press the issue. + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 02:07 Vivax wrote: You mean his joke?Yes, I didn't get the joke. My main points (which I wonder you don't know, cause they were at the beginning of my argumentation against him) are that he just started posting after two accusations were out, with the claim of me talking of 'us' townies with the purpose of making myself sound as if I were one, while heist, a few posts above, does exactly the same thing I did. So Eishi_Ki bandwagoned with a very weak claim, a very small post and no pressure to post in the future cause of his schedule. Also, notice how once confronted with his weak claim he suddenly accuses three other people but not me anymore. He must have noticed that his claim is really weak and is now dodging the accusations. He also denied a statement concerning the weak claim instead asking what the accusation is. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298¤tpage=8#143 I think there is not enough information on unforgiven, except for a nonexistent post analysis. He gave general tips so far, then he agreed with statements from other players without questioning them and without posting something concrete. I'll stick to my opinion regarding sciberbia and Eishi_Ki. In case I won't have a majority on Eishi_Ki, I'll try to help achieve the majority on the case i believe is most correct in order to get a Day 1 lynch 100%. And up to this point I STILL don't know what I was accused of. I never asserted that I was accusing you, only that I was suspicious. What do you want, a full accusation after you post a couple of times? I felt the need to contribute, and I did. Yes my points were weak but I frankly don't know anything about D1 vs D2 lynch so I opted out of saying anything in that regard. Plus, it was a dead horse. Finally, since that point, I have said nothing regarding Vivax to sway or dissuade him (sleeping and working). But from going from a vehement hyper aggressive vote for myself to this.... + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 05:51 Vivax wrote: Cattivik here, I just had my name changed <_< , hope noone gets confused. Anyway, suki wanted some opinions on other players, so I'll put sciberbia and Eishi_Ki aside. Alright, where should I start. Let's start with you, suki: You have 5 substantial posts so far, excluding those answering game related questions or correcting formal mistakes. Your first stance was expressed after Miltons' vote against sciberbia. You believe sciberbia to have posted in the towns' interest. So do I, that's why I defend him.And the argument of mafia not posting first in a newbie game doesn't seem wrong to me. You seem to support cases especially against unforgiven_ve, then Milton, then Eishi, then me. Frankly, I don't think you are mafia. On to s0lstice: Very focused on unforgiven_ve, but also very eager to get opinions and wake up the lurkers. Rather than focusing on the exposed ones, he's getting the guys behind first, without doubt he's working pro-town and not afraid to defend people who he believes are townies, in this case me. The first post didn't look decise, but everything following convinced me of your town alignment. Xatalos: First trying to get the lurkers, now he's pushing the case against unforgiven_ve along with s0lstice. Not seen too much of a hard stance except for the one on unforgiven yet. But I'm pretty sure you are townie aswell. Miltonkram: He suspected sciberbia before understanding his point of view and apologized accordingly, suki found that apology a little suspicious, I don't. I think it's strange you have a scumread about me trying to buddy up with someone. I immediately dismissed the NL option in the s0lstice case.Doesn't exactly support his post. Still, I believe you are townie. O.golden_ne: Not sure why he's pushing the case against me so hard, then suspects Xatalos for defending me. Then he defends Eishi_ki against my accusations, saying he contributes more than me to the discussion. Actually, Eishi_ki started posting suspects after this post. Eishi's only claim before this post was that I am suspicious cause I spoke of 'we', the town. I think it's a really weak defense of Eishi and a weak case against me. More to my defense further down in the post. I do like that you also suspect the lurkers though. I can't tell if you are mafia or town. heist: One of the things I notice is that you didn't acknowledge my defence so far. You also didn't post a definite opinion in form of a vote or FoS. You gave general hints at the start. I can't tell if you are mafia or town. Superouman: The only thing you said which could haunt you as mafia later in the game is this: The rest reflects a strong indecision. In one of his posts, he says he doesn't want to judge only based on assumptions. While such a Day1 attitude doesn't produce anything useful, he could just be making the mistakes of a noob townie. Cause of the neutrality of his posts I might vote for him in absence of another strong case. I believe Superouman to be scum or not confident enough. He just voted for sciberbia out of nowhere, whatever. Unforgiven_ve No cases, basically a resume of what has been posted so far. He might have felt the urge to post something positive cause he missed the timing when all the reccommendations were posted, or he might just try to blend in with the majority. There is a fairly strong case against him, although people have been accusing him fast. It might also just be a misunderstanding cause of the different languages, but we can't go for charity in this game, that's why I also suspect you of being scum. Ange777: Permanent lurker. He promised he would contribute something soon. If it's not enough, I will vote for him first and unvote Eishi_Ki. Alright, now to my next defense: I'm one of the most, if not the most active poster in this game so far. Assuming that I survive this day or night while being mafia, my posts make me so transparent that I wouldn't survive day 2 for certain. In that case, I would have played mafia like an idiot. Also cause I'm exposing myself quite extremely. Whoever should be proven wrong for promoting the case against me in case I get lynched will most likely get in trouble the next day, cause I will flip town. The first to fall should be the lurkers. Killing me would also provide a nice bunch of information about peoples' motives for pushing against me, but naturally, I would like to avoid that. ...does seem highly suspicious. I haven't attempted to change your mind on your vote, so why the weak knees and change of heart to calling out a lurker? Was it everyone else basically telling you your argument was moot and that my responses were adequate? In either case, I had you fingered from the start and my suspicions were not waived despite moving onto other subjects. Here be mafia. I'm also calling out Superouman, I have tried several times and attempted to encourage you to contribute more. Enough's enough though, I believe you are mafia and are using the newb excuse to sway opinion. I'm not buying it. I'm not going to vote just yet, a response from Vivax will make my decision. Be back this evening. I'll try and stay awake as long as I can for the vote (might be drunk, who knows, fire friday and all) | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
##Vote Ange777 | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
Once again, sorry for not being around. First off, I want to apologise to Ange, my accusation was just to qualify a vote for a D1 lynch and you seemed like the most likely candidate by the time I left. However, you fought very well and my decision was regrettable. I am glad it has not adversely affected the game. I am 100% sure you are not a mafioso as it would take a pretty absent goon to finger their most powerful asset. Plus your case was well constructed, cohesive and, though not particularly timely, was convincing. Regarding Suki, I should have followed through with my suspicions but I was sidetracked. I am sorry about that also. The result means Unforgiven is more than likely not mafia either as he pleaded with everyone to vote for Suki; same reasoning as Ange. Now, Xatalos. For one, it's been mentioned multiple times that my timezone means I will not be active close to deadlines, sorry bout that, RL calls and all that, yet you continue to inquire for an explanation for my inactivity. Creating chaos or missed the multiple posts, seems suspicious, care to comment? A very strong defence of Suki in your posts indicate either true ignorance or protection and after Suki was lynched, you comment that your judgement was way off, so you could be wrong again, so tell me, if you can't read people and your certainties are actually false, are you actually that useful? Vivax made the same defence of Suki and my reservations regarding him are seeming more and more well founded | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On June 04 2012 21:05 ShiaoPi wrote: I really do not understand all your reactions to the "bussing" comment from heist. Vivax took a total 180 degree turn from his 100%townie read on suki into voting him... Also I already addressed some weak points in s0lstice's case, which simply do not convince me that heist is scum. Vivax's suspicious behaviour through his ability to completely change his read and convictions on someone has occurred on multiple occasions now which I have noted and previously commented on. The follow up by him was inconclusive and I feel insubstantial. Check my filter for reference to this. Anyway, sorry for being mostly AFK, it's finals time and I've been trying to organise and mark the exams blah blah. I'll try and be online as much as I can, but for now, I need to get some rest. ##Vote Vivax | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On June 04 2012 22:03 ShiaoPi wrote: EBWOP: Since we were talking about suki's filter, nobody wants to comment on the soft-defense he gave eishi? Heist did also, I would never let you forget. You can read Vivax's claims against me, but there wasn't a lot to them. It isn't difficult to contribute in a soft defence; it hardly indicates alignment. I realise that suki's lynching and the suspicions on Heist have placed me in a bad light but I can't do anything about who they choose to defend other than say I'm not in league with them. See it how you will. | ||
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